Fighting terrorism at home so we don’t have to fight them over there
Now that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are winding down, according to CNN, the terrorists seem to be doing that which the “neo-cons” warned about – bringing the fight to our military here in this country;
So what is the actual threat to America’s military from homegrown terrorists? The New America Foundation and the Maxwell School of Public Policy examined 192 cases of apparent homegrown terrorism by Islamist militants since 9/11. We found that the American military at home and abroad is indeed a target for Islamist extremist plots. In a third of the cases we studied, the individuals who were charged had targeted the U.S. military. Of those, a little under half targeted military facilities or personnel in the United States, while 55% were targeting American bases and troops overseas.
I suppose the whole “workplace violence” thing is to cover up the fact that the war has come to our shores – just like the previous administration warned to so much derision in the press and the late night shows.
The enemy can’t defeat us on the field of battle, so they wait to kill our military where the troops expect relative safety.
And of course, CNN tries a bit of slight of hand todistract from terrorism by discussing the Hutarees, the “Little Rascals” of terrorists. I guess they just couldn’t help themselves from distracting us from the real threat.
Category: Terror War
The Hutarees are the Back Street Boys of terrorists, if they are terrorists at all. I will say I have my doubts about them being what they are accused of being, especially if that walking-talking retard Mark Potok is one of the people pointing fingers.
As was with the ‘Liberty 7’, both media and DoJ seem to want to latch on to any keystone ‘terror’ group for sensationalism.
And how many of these “terror plots” can be traced back to the work of paid informants working for the FBI?
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2011/03/inside-fbis-terrorism-factory.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/16/fbi-entrapment-fake-terror-plots
(And let’s not forget the 1st WTC bombing, financed by the US Taxpayer via the FBI.)
Gotta keep the Amerkun Peeples all afright with bogey men …
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/06/fear-of-terror-makes-people-stupid.html
I’m surprised the PaulTards haven’t been here yet warning about Freemasons, Illuminatti, and Bilderbergers, et al.
Tim–give our Paultard EK time. He’ll have to do a bit of digging around Lew Rockwell or Stormfront to get the right links.
Of course, aside from creating a tempting target for terrorists overseas, the war never actually did anything difinitive to keep them from coming over here. This is not a traditional war where we are keeping conventional forces at bay. We are fighting a group of loosely organized people that have a limited command structure and answer to no one specifically. The only way to ensure that there is a minute threat at home is martial law. None of us would want to live in such a country.
Okay, I guess this is the thread that will piss everone off today. I’m not talking about the topic. I’m talking about the commenters. We have lefty and loony here already.
And more asshattery sure to follow. Memo to apologists…you kill enough bad guys, the rest of them take the hint eventually. Just because the Religion of Perpetual Outrage is slow on the uptake doesn’t mean they’re incapable of figuring it out at some point.
Fanatics are always dangerous. The subject of their particular fanatacism is irrelevant.
HM2 FMF-SW Ret,
Whaddya, some kinda Paul Tard?
Of course, the guys who major in name-calling, innuendo and guilt-by-(no)-assocaition can’t be bothered to marshall a substantive rebuttal.
“Paulbots!”
“Stormfront!!”
“Harumph harumph harumph!!!”
Weak sauce, lads.
Man 1: “I smell crap.”
Man 2: “Yep, there it is.”
Man 3: “That crap was probably put there for a reason. I wonder what type of animal deposited it there. Look, there’s undigested peanuts in it. I wonder where the animal got the peanuts. I wonder whether it was a wild animal or domesticated one. If domesticated, I wonder whether it was someone’s pet and, if so, what sort of person he is. I wonder whether he is a citizen or not, and whether he supports Paul. Of course, if he is a man of reason, he must support Paul because…”
Man 1: “Shut the hell up!”
Man 2: “Screw him. Let’s go. Those knuckleheads don’t know how to shut up.”
@10: There is no way to rebutt stupid, no matter how hard a person tries.
What Old Trooper says.
Paultards are stuck on stupid, and no amount of facts or reasoning will ever deter them from their approved storyline.
Best to just ignore them, really.
Just a “hell, yeah” for #12 & #13..
Haven’t we know for quite a long time that arguing with the insane is futile?
Old Trooper,
“… no matter how hard a person tries”?
But then, you haven’t tried, have you?
All you’ve done is call me “stupid.”
There are three links at (3), gentlemen.
Suppose you try actually addressing their points, rather than just holding hands and calling me “stupid”?
Many (most?) “homegrown terror” plots are launched and facilitated by federal informants.
The Guardian, and two blogs? Sorry, your “sources” aren’t credible, the Guardian article is opinion, very few facts, other than getting the names right. As OWB said in #15, “arguing with the insane is futile”.
rather than just holding hands and calling me “stupid”?
Because calling you smart would be a lie, junior. And I’m still waiting for you to refute Paul’s racist newsletters and association with Stormfront, Alex Jones, 9/11 “troofers”, et al.
But then again, your sidestepping projection is showing.
Blowing up and shooting people overseas, including innocent people, does absolutely nothing to improve our safety over here. How on earth does that stop a home grown terrorist? “Fighting terrorism over there so we don’t have to fight it over here” is one of the lamest, most simplistic bumper stickers ever invented, but then again, maybe that’s why it appeals to you guys.
Damn, almost seven hours. You’re slipping, or your hours of computer access at “the home” got changed.
And as far as lame bumper stickers, look on any liberal’s Prius or other self-righteous POS car.
Labeling veterans as terrorists isn’t productive or true, but that won’t stop the douchenozzles over at the SPLC or DHS, plus it gives you fucksticks ammo (no pun intended) to bash the military in a half-assed, back-handed sort of way.
Of course, there are those of us who think that the nanny state programs which directly lead to hopelessness and helplessness (to say nothing of assorted criminality) among a significant proportion of the population is the single largest contributor in nurturing so-called home grown terrorists.
But that’s a bit much to place on a bumper sticker.
First off, I am against labeling vets a a category of terrorist. (In general I am against labeling vets as anything more than vets.)
Secondly, the logic of fighting them over there to not fight them here is flawed logic. If this were a conventional war with conventional forces then, the logic would work. If we don’t stop the army where it is, in a place of our choosing, then theoretically we may find ourselves invaded by that army.
In this case, we have an irregular, de centralized enemy that is held together not by military structure, but by a religious ideology that dictates that members of that brand of Islam must kill non believers in order to demonstrate their love for Allah. Thus, they do not fight us because they want what we have or even because they hate us. They fight because they love Allah. To assume then that legions of dead (guilty and innocent alike) will not deter them. It is not possible to kill all of them nor should we try.
The answer is to take reasonable precautions as we have, but understand that the threat of a terrorist act on our soil will always be present. (Even the Bush Administration conceded this point.)
The count is up since this morning. There are now two lefties and a loon. Sorry, but I can only count one as a lefty or a loon despite the fact that most lefties are loons. Dems da rules.
SO as usual, since you can’t argue with the logic you label the commenter?
Whatev.
@25 – That’s the MO…color outside the lines and get playground name calling from the party faithful.
On the other hand, if you are trying to rid the homeplace of vermin (say a raccoon, for instance) you don’t set the trap by your back door. It usually isn’t very effective to set it up in the living room either. No, you bait the trap with something yummy and set up up on the far side of the yard, or near the barn, or somewhere, any place suitable, but away from your sleeping quarters.
If you insist on baiting the trap and setting it up in your living room you may eventually catch some raccoons, but you might have to leave the door open for them so that they can get to the trap.
Two lefties and a loon! The numbers are shifting in our favor! Yippee!
I can understand the desire to make the problem simpler. It would be easy and in some ways comfoting to think that if we just started dropping bodies that we would somehjow be safer.
In reality, it doesn’t work that way. The extremists will desire to kill us for not being like them and use any response we give as a recruiting tool to convince others that their cause is just.
The GWOT is little more than a recipe for perpetual war with diminishing returns at best if not being wholly counter productive. If we want to keep up appearences then we have to invade Yamen, Syria, Somalia and dozens of other countries. Moreover, how many troops do we need to invade the internet?
The fight we are now in calls for a different kind of thinking than strategies for a traditional war.
@27. Bad analogy. By your logic then, shut the door and check for holes in your house.
your argument also assumes that there is a finite number of racoons. Your tactics do not have the power to create racoons out of other animals.
@29 – “The fight we are now in calls for a different kind of thinking than strategies for a traditional war.”
Very true. Unfortunately, though the decimation of al Qaeda, and sending a thorough message to any fence sitters has played second fiddle to appeasing the enemies IO campaign.
Military adventures take a major investment in time, money and personnel, whereas terrorism proliferates at the speed of thought. The only way we’re gonna compete with the terrorist meme in the long term is to fight it with our own, show the world what many have forgotten in these brutal times – that the US is multi-ethnic, multi-religious country, that we’re a muslim country in addition to being a christian country, a jewish country, etc. Disarm their ideological ammunition by proving in actions and words that we are not the murderous, prejudiced monster they portray us to be. In some ways I think the US does best when instead of fighting whatever it is afraid of, embracing it and subsuming it. Make islam ours. If it ever became clear to the 1.5 billion muslims in the world that a muslim (and a christian, and a jew, and on and on) can live a safe, prosperous life over here, become part of a community, and in fact have a higher standard of living, they would stop believing all the extremist propaganda out there. Our most recent presidents have been pretty mediocre in using the international bully pulpit to demonstrate the positive characteristics of America and Americans. It’s been more like, “My way or the highway”, but how are you ever gonna bully billions of people into submission?
“…or other self-righteous POS car.”
This would be known as a “Volvo”.
I’m sure your bloated, oversized, gas-guzzling Ford/GM Chrysler extended cab/crew cab SUV/PU can blow their doors off.
Let’s see, we’ve gotten the “multi-ethnic, multi-religious” meme, the “embracing it and subsuming it” meme and the “gas-guzzling” meme from one of the loons, or is it lefty?
Then there is this gem, “Make islam ours”. I don’t know about anyone else, but no thanks. I want no part of something that thinks that throwing acid in a little girl’s face is OK, that stoning the victim of a rape is OK, that killing your daughter is OK, because she’s too “westernized”. I’ll pass, I want no part of Islam.
If you think it’s so great, Joey, pack up and move to Pahk-ee-stahn.
No one cares what you think of islam UpNorth. As omnipotent as you are, you are not going to eradicate it from the US, so we’re all gonna have to live with it, just like we have to live with fundamentalist christianity, unless you want to purge several million people from this country, and as brutal as you come across, I don’t think even you are advocating for that. I’ll become a muslim about the same time I become a christian – NEVER! But by accepting it as part of America, like it or not (freedom of religion and all that), we may be able to select for more gentle local strains of islam, the way we have fairly benign strains of christianity – after all, we don’t still burn people at the stake.
Anyone who doesn’t understand the simple concept that baiting traps away from the house keeps raccoons from breeding under the porch obviously has no common sense and certainly no survival instincts.
But, hey, we have pretty much agreed here that if you want to act stupid in public so far you are still free to do so. Not so much in other countries, especially those under sharia law.
“No one cares what you think of islam UpNorth.”
Wow, Joe. That’s gotta be a record. You were wrong in just the first sentence! And there you go again, thinking what applies to you also applies to others.
@25. When I see something that’s worth arguing about delivered by someone who is worth arguing with, I’ll argue. Until then, you’re just a waste of time.
Joey, I will little note or remember at all that you, once again, ignore the points I made.
Now, kindly point out where I said anything about eradicating Islam. I just said I wanted no part of it.
“As brutal” as I come across? Well, that’s still better than you, who comes across as galactically ignorant.
Next, how about you document those “gentle local strains of islam” that you think might be out there. Or, are you going to tell us that those “gentle, local strains of Islam” ignore the Quran, and it’s Suras?
@36: Yeah, Joe, those fundy Christians are really some scary peeps with them going around threatening to cut heads off of the non-believers. In fact, you had better be careful, Joe, because I think they know where you live and if you keep making derogatory statements, they may put you on the list and just do a suicide bombing on your dumb ass.
the US is multi-ethnic, multi-religious country, that we’re a muslim country in addition to being a christian country, a jewish country, etc.
And how’s that working out for Western Europe lately?
I’m sure your bloated, oversized, gas-guzzling Ford/GM Chrysler extended cab/crew cab SUV/PU can blow their doors off.
Sorry, none of the above, really. And I get 24 mpg on the highway.
we may be able to select for more gentle local strains of islam
Haven’t been hanging around Dearborn much lately, have ya?
The only way we’re gonna compete with the terrorist meme in the long term is to fight it with our own
You just said we’re terrorists. If in fact we were capable of even a fraction of the atrocities the left and Islam (and really, what’s the difference?) accused us of perpetrating, Mecca would be the world’s largest glass parking lot by now. However, give Iran, the Taliban, or AlQaeda a nuke and tell me they won’t use it as soon as they get their greasy little hands on it.
Hey, Joey, here’s some more “enlightened” thinking from those lovable Islamists. “An Islamic cleric living in Europe reportedly has warned Muslim women not to get too close to bananas, cucumbers or other produce — to avoid having “sexual thoughts.”
The whole article is here. http://www.crescentpost.com/2011/12/news-muslims-cleric-says-bananas-cucumbers-give-women-sexual-thoughts/
And, before you get all indignant, Joey, he’s somebody’s local Islamist.
UpNorth,
Wanting no part of it and dealing with it are two different things. I’m talking about dealing with it on a national scale. There are 2.5-3 million muslims in the US. Do you suppose there are therefore 2.5-3 million terrorists? Of course not. I would bet the majority of muslims are indifferent to most of the fine print in the Koran the same way most christians do not agonize over esoteric issues of doctrine. I know christians who have been with a given church for generations and they couldn’t tell you the first thing about the bible. It’s a social/spiritual/feel good thing to them. If as a group first generation muslim immigrants are more fundamentalist in their belief system, give ’em a generation or two in this consumerist society and see how long that lasts. People just want to get on with their lives, belong to a group, and apparently they all need to believe in an imaginary friend in the sky. Christians are no different than muslims in this regard.
So to me, you could not get rid of them even if you wanted to. Now it comes down to a PR campaign, and at present the muslims seem to be outselling the christians. If significant numbers of Americans end up converting, then US christians will have to a hard look at themselves, their doctrine, their appeal. Religions mutate and compete over time to become more appealing (or die). Case in point – christian rock music, a recent adaptive mutation. So if christianity is the way to go, prove it! Me, I hope the dark horse, the atheists, carry their recent momentum and come from behind to prevail.
Joe EK and HM2 have forgotten some important facts about Engagement.
1). Most of these people have never even seen an American. Now a lot of people have seen the good we’ve attempted to do, and the ills that the islamofacist forces will do.
2). We’ve provided a counterpoint. We’ve shown both professionalism and competence at tasks large and small. Despite a few notable exceptions most people realized we were there to help and were even grateful
3). Terrorism is not like fighting tradional armies. While keeping our forces busy abroad has in fact focused their attention they are ALWAYS trying to deliver the knockout blow. In that way they think like WWI Generals, in that with enough mass and firepower their enemy is undone.
4). EK I have no idea why on earth you think the FBI has directly funded terror attacks. There is a huge difference between setting up a trap, posing as foreign fighters so that a suspect hangs themselves, and actually paying for said activities. Because “terrorism” is such a nebulous legal charge, you really do have to catch them in the act, the only way to do that and not have ya know collateral damage, is if you control the scenario the whole time and let them talk themselves into a conviction.
5). Joe please if you could, tell me what do you think should have been done post 9/11. Should we have agreed that the Taliban really did need evidence, before they turned over Osama? They were never going to do that. Should we have perhaps asked really nice-like that they not do it again? Pleas tell me what on Earth you would have done. If you can’t say anything other than “talk real sternly” to them STFU
6). As for Iraq, have any of you naysayers actually been there? Sadam was a menace. Not to the world but the region, and a terror to his own people. He was a plauge upon this earth, and the world as a whole is better off without him.
Joey, never said anything about the numbers of Muslims, or Christians, or Zoroastrians, for that matter. I. Don’t. Care.
You seem to be hung up on the idea that I, somehow, advocated for the eradication of Muslims. As I said in #40, show me where I said that.
If you’re of the opinion that the majority of Muslims ignore the tenets of their religion, in my opinion, you’re wrong. Now, you’re saying that I have to prove the idea of Christianity? You do seem to wander from a point to another point, don’t you? I really don’t feel the need to “prove” anything to you.
You choose to defend a 7th century lifestyle and religion, rolled into a social and government system, when you live under it, you’ll have some credibility, until then, you’re just another apologist for Islam.
UpNorth,
I’m not “living under it” – in fact with the aggressive fundamentalist christians poking their noses into eveyones business and bedrooms, I’m more likely living under christianity.
You obviously can’t stand islam (I’m not crazy about it either), so what’s next? Ban immagrants who are muslims? Ban islam in the US? Ban mosque building? Sit passively by and fume about islam and let them impose sharia law nation wide? I mean what?
I had to let this sit for a little bit. However, I feel that Doc deserves an answer to his questions, though I know I may have missed the window of opportunity. 1. Yes, many of the people in the ME and A’stan have never seen an American. They may understand the good we have tried to do or they may only see the collateral damage left the use of arial platforms or artillary. It is impossible to tell how these populations will judge us and our intentions. 2. I can’t speak to this point. I think that the dichotomy is such that some people may have understood our intentions as good and others did not. The reality is that we opened Iraq to Al Qiada and did not fully repair the damage we caused through two wars. 3. I agree with these points. However, we are still acting as though we are fighting a maneuver war. While we may be fighting such a war against the Taliban in A’stan, we are at the greatest threat from a single terrorist or terrorist cell that is willing to die to kill Americans. The person who puts c4 in his underwear or hijacks a train and bows it up in a metro area. Fighting wars in the ME does not deter this. In fact Iraq was used by terrorists as a training ground. 4. Not my issue. 5. We should have launched limited actions in A’stan to disrupt Al Qada operations. We should have increased security at ports, airports and public transit. Invading a country that was not a major threat is not on that list. 6. Yes I have. I fought there and lost good people. The world is better off without Sadam. It is not better off without Brian, Brenard, Mike, Ed and thousands of others. Saddam being a brutal dictator is not reason enough to take us into war. Mushariff was a threat to his own people, China, North Korea and a host of other countries live under the threat of brutal leaders. It is not our place to… Read more »