Three Marines to be Court Martialed for Hazing (Updated)
The reason that the three Marines in question are facing a Court Martial is their actions lead to the sucide of a Marine. It was first reported back in July of this year.
Lance Cpl. Harry Lew, 21, died April 3 while supporting combat operations in Helmand province, Afghanistan.
He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Marine Regiment, 3rd Marine Division, III Marine Expeditionary Force, based out of Marine Corps Base Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii.
The military told the family Lew was shot in the head but would not release other details of his death. The incident is under investigation, officials said.
But then it get complicated when in September when it was reviled that he committed suicide. Also that his actions were driven by ongoing treatment from three Marines in his unit new unit with in Afghanistan. It seems that this is a second incident like this to have happened this year.
Jacoby, 21, is accused of kicking and punching Lew in the head. He is also charged with threatening Lew with harm. Johns, 26, and Orozco, 22, are also accused of dereliction for failing to supervise and ensure the welfare of Marines under their care.
Orozco, 22, allegedly ordered Lew “to do pushups, side planks, leg lifts with a sandbag, while wearing full personal protective equipment and pouring sand onto his face,” according to the cruelty and maltreatment charge against Orozco. He is also charged with assault for kicking Lew in the head and stomping on his back.
But then comes the part that I did a double take and cringe.
At a hearing last month, Marines from the same unit testified that the three accused punched and kicked Lew, forced him to do push-ups and other exercises in full combat gear, and poured sand in his face. The accused Marines argued that they were angry with Lew because he had fallen asleep on guard duty at a remote base in Afghanistan four times in 10 days, endangering the unit. After Lew’s death commanders said that the sleeping may have been a sign that he was suffering from depression or some other medical condition
After I had read that I had more questions then answers. Like a guy that falls asleep FOUR times? After two times then it is showing that what ever corrective actions are not working. Also after a repeating pattern why would you expect a different results without changing anything? Ok so three lost their cool/mind and went over board by hitting him and making threats. But in another link a few extra words change things even more.
The commanding officer of the platoon testified he didn’t think Jacoby was hazing Lew when he punched and kicked Lew’s body armor after the Marine was caught sleeping on watch again. “I think Lance Corporal Jacoby lost his temper,” said 1st Lt. Jameson Payne.
So that changes things from being randomly hit in the face or back uncovered to a knee jerk reaction. Now it brings into question what exactly was happening over there. Oh and ready for one more twist.
A House Armed Services hearing Friday on the status of suicide prevention programs in the military gave leaders from the Navy, Army, Air Force and Marine Corps a chance to answer lawmakers’ questions about identifying service members at risk and other steps they are taking to stop suicides. The military witnesses highlighted their efforts and described how services members often “dance with some dragons,” which was how Marine Lt. Gen. Robert Milstead Jr., put it.
Toward the end of the hour-long session, California Rep. Judy Chu talked about the life and death of Lew.
He was her nephew.
This will get ugly.
UPDATE: Here is a document related to this issue brought to our attention by Dunlop (post number 38).
Category: Terror War
Fat fingers syndrome!
AirCav, oh yeah, and my fingers, at times, get cixelsyd.
“And,the NCIS agents did not heed Article 31, so what do they have, without the involuntary statements taken in violation of Article 31?”
One, young very dead Marine by suicide, a squad of LCP’s, several NCO’s and an officer or two they won’t be able to drag into a hearing if their soon to be short lived careers and lives depended on it?
Nice job, NCIS…I hear JB Hunt is recruiting drivers…
@52. I teg ti, htronpU, tub ti koot em a etunim.
@38: Lew was aware of the pending NJP; that was probably the main triggering incident, not the hazing.
>He fell asleep on his “first day with the new squad”, then “was caught sleeping again, this time while on post out on an ambush patrol” a few days later?
Not only that but FOUR times in ten days… Far be it from me to quote the fake Col. Jessup- but this keeps running thru my head:
“That Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives.”
Has anyone else figured out that “hazing” is an EXTREMELY vague article, and at some point is actually self defeating. Think about it, what is SFAC but 21 days of strait hazing? Even though there’s a method to the madness, isn’t BUD/S nothing but hazing the shit out of someone for months on end? Would anyone that’s gone through Ranger School argue that it’s NOT hazing? Hazing is a way to make sure only the qualified remain in an organization. How is that not utterly essential in a line unit?
If the fault lies anywhere it lies in the previous commands, and his BCT site for even letting such an obvious fuck-up get anywhere NEAR the front. Is it sad he died? Yeah, but point blank: HE. SHOULD. NOT. HAVE. BEEN THERE!!!
When you get to a combat zone the actions have to be more extreme. Because and I can not stress this enough, if you fuck up, people WILL die. Not may die. Not might get hurt. If you are a young man, and probably want to live, you’d probably react, or overreact, pretty negatively.
I think the smoking may have been extreme, but I have yet to see anything that makes me believe that this isn’t a witch hunt by his chain of command.
Curious that I am (as having worked 3rd shift more times thhan any other), what was this “sleeper” doing during 1st & 2nd shifts when he could have been getting prepared for night guard duty…
…or does these units try to get by with as little rest as possible.
My background with working at night (military), was 3rd shift in AF SPS, later I pulled 2nd & 3rd shifts as K-9 handler (made sure I got my rest during hours off).
#57 SFAS-SFQC/Ranger school are NOT hazing… in any form. They are not self-defeating either. Outsiders may watch the Military Channel and read Soldier of Fiction and then surmise in their military realm that these schools are hazing. They are not. Standards are set for the student. It is up to the student to meet the standards. If the standards are not met, consequences are handed out. Quitting is always an option. Sometimes the consequences may seem unfair (eg. “group punishment”). The student can quit at any time.
Falling asleep on guard duty FOUR times screams “poor leadership.” Anyone can set up any one to fail… that is easy. The hard part is making chicken salad out of chicken shit (a “C M” saying!). Simple leadership would have averted falling asleep #2, #3 and #4. Then there was the frustration… the piling on, striking the Marine while hiding behind one’s rank… yes, a court martial is justified in this one. Everyone (defense, prosecutor, the Marine Corps-everyone) will feel bad after the outcome of the court martial, no matter what the outcome may be.
Fuck me once, shame on you. Fuck me twice, shame on me. Fuck me FOUR times?
Beret, what you say in #59 is probably true. But, with the NCIS taking statements from those involved, because “they just want to get the truth”, and without Article 31 warnings, any court of competent jurisdiction should rule that what’s left after those statements, which should be excluded, is hearsay. So, how does a court martial proceed if all the prosecution has is hearsay?
And, falling asleep four times on guard duty may scream poor leadership, but it also screams “this is about me, and fuck everyone else”.
@60-If ANY unit allows a clown to fall asleep on guard duty FOUR fucking times… that says a lot about the unit. The “All about me” syndrome of today’s “soccer trophy for everyone” society is weak. When a two star general comments on how today’s soldiers can’t handle bad news …well that in itself is shocking.
Again everyone- you, me, and the Marines on trial, the Corps itself etc…will feel bad after this is all over. A no- winner for anyone. The cause: Poor or lack of leadership in dealing with a Marine, in a combat theater, who habitually slept on guard duty on four different occasions.
The whole scenario is sickening.
< With #60, all the way! Once "NCIS" decided to for-go Article 31-b…those "agents" probably couldn't find work as parking meter maids (Oh wait, DC might hire them) so I officially retrac my "JB Hunt is looking for drivers" comment. Nothing like screwing the pooch right out of the gate….*shrugging*.
#59 I’d have to disagree with you in that “hazing” in and of itself is the specific act of pressuring an individual to either quit the organization, or to rise up to the challenge. Having troops crawl through pig guts, might seem like an extreme action, or it might seem like you’re preparing someone for actual combat (Stalingrad style but combat none the less). Likewise most of the actions one might lob in with “hazing” such as “blood wings/rank” or FNG, or even some of the extreme smoke sessions in advanced schools actually fits the definition of hazing pretty well.
Having gone through the greek system, drinking till I passed out, doing scut work for a checked box (and getting paddled by a stripper), I would say that while what we typically think of Hazing, associated with the Greek system (“Thank you sir may I have another” comes to mind) I would have to say that a LOT of the things they do in advanced schools are similar. Just as the lines that should not be (but often are) crossed.
The point I’m trying to make is actually we need MORE hazing not less. When a Joe gets out of basic they should be hard as a rock, and ready to eat nails for breakfast. There should be no easy ride. If a person can speak lightly of Basic, and honestly say it wasn’t that hard, then the Drills and really all of TRADOC failed. If a person can come from AIT overweight, then again there is a failure somewhere.
Combat is cold, hard and brutal. Unless we have hardened soldiers and Marines, we will see repeats of our worst moments in history. TF Smith comes to mind. If our leaders are not 100% on the ball then we will get worse outcomes, and things like TF Faith will simply be know as Little Bighorn Round 2.
Four thoughts:
1. sleeping on guard x4 is seriously wrong. if he slept on post in his prior unit and was transferred to this platoon for unofficial corrective action ILO being returned home, then the CoC is wrong for not taking responsibility for that decision.
2. depression typically causes problems falling asleep or staying asleep. it doesn’t cause problems with excessive sleepiness. perhaps he was prescribed medication that caused sleepiness.
3. if he was kicked in the SAPI plates, then those plates should be turned in for replacements. even a small crack can cause a SAPI plate to not stop a rifle round. grunts ought to know this fact. a kick to the SAPI suggests the smoking was not entirely rational and planned.
4. NCIS ignored the 31b warning on purpose. they must have heard or learned something before interviewing those Marines. skip the 31b, screw up the court-martial, and maybe avoid bad legal trouble for those Marines who followed unofficial instructions to fix a problem. next, see thought #1 above.
military medical officers often face questions about screwups in a combat zone. do you pull a soldier or Marine from combat over what seems like a minor medical problem? do you send him home if the condition might be faked? can it be fixed with discipline or instruction that builds up confidence? if you act “compassionately” (as in civilian chairborne Monday-morning quarterbacking), then sick call will be full of other soldiers or Marines who ask for return to CONUS over their foot fungus / depression / breathing problems / etc. what if you don’t medevac the truly suicidal soldier or Marine?
when we know military medical officers wrestle with these decisions, it’s not right to expect infantry grunts to be any better at separating depression from being scared.
it’s a sad, sad story for everyone involved and UCMJ actions won’t clear up the many unanswered questions.
#63… Who crawls through pig’s guts? What fucking school has that in their program? There is a BIG difference between college Greek fest than SFQC and Ranger School. No comparison. Drinking till you pass out and getting paddled does not equate to humping a 60 up a mountain at 0400…then when you get to the top you are told you are now the patrol leader… and you have 5 minutes to find out where you are, where you are going and pick a point man compass man and APL. All of those positions cannot be held by an NCO. Any questions? That happened to me because my instructor heard me grunt as I was trying to climb that mountain with that damn 60. He zeroed in on me because of my “grunt.” Is that hazing? No! Harassment? Maybe! Corrective action? Yes! “Bouncing the gates” because I had C-ration “John Wayne Bars” (damn issued!)instead of rock candy in my ruck. This was not hazing. There was no element of abuse or humiliation whatsoever in the gate bouncing. Unfair? Absodamnlutley. As for your “smoke fest” term… they are used for corrective action…nothing more. It is NOT hazing. Hazing encompasses abuse and humiliation to initiate one to a group. I never was abused or humiliated in the “advanced school(s)” which would equate to hazing. Nor did I abuse or humiliate a student either. I NEVER saw this shit you claim. I have been on both sides of the fences as a student AND instructor. As for the blood wings bullshit… that is just plain clownish and gimmicky (like the Yarborough Knife and Regimental Dining Ins). I never had blood wings on ANY of my wings that I was awarded. In fact when my “buddy” (Master Paratrooper, Master Aviator Ranger, 2 Silver Stars PH, OCS Hall of Fame etc.) came down to pin my “Trashfinder” badge, he saw some clowns pulling the blood wing shit. He cringed and called them what they were- idiots. Any hazing that occurs in the military is unprofessional and needs to be shit-canned immediately. I suggest you cancel your… Read more »
“4. NCIS ignored the 31b warning on purpose. they must have heard or learned something before interviewing those Marines. skip the 31b, screw up the court-martial,”. That thought occurred to me. It explains a lot, as far as the actions of the NCIS agents.
Listen I’m not trying to be insulting but there’s a big difference between 11series, 03series, other combat arms MOSs vs boat drivers, supply pac clerks etc.
Well maybe he suffered from depression, or had a sleeping problem. How about we agree that this shitbird couldn’t hack the infantry.
Do 5 minutes of research about some of these remote areas in Afghanistan the grunts operate it. The guy couldn’t hack the infantry, couldn’t take a smoking and couldn’t take care of his buddies. Fuck him he was a shitbird for a grunt
Or can we make this assessment… Maybe these guys were on OP away from anybody. My OP that was an hour and a half hump away from the COP/Camp that I was NCOIC of for 7-10 days at a time was myself and 7 other swinging dicks. We pulled guard every night. Maybe for those 10 days they were on an OP
My son was there when this fuckup killed himself. Since I am up and close, I will tell you, they tried hard to make him right, this is all a sham by his aunt. Good guys get fucked if you are a bitch in congress.
I am sorry, his aunt’s reply that he was a patriot, does not hold water or that he was tortured. Last time I will comment.
[…] us the story of one Marine’s exoneration is the hazing case that led to the suicide death of Lance Cpl. Harry Lew. The Marine is Sgt. Benjamin Johns who apparently caught Lew sleeping while on guard duty in […]