The bi-polar Left
When they were all draft-age, the left opposed the draft, naturally. But now, like some of our resident trolls, the draft seems to be the answer of all of our problems – like beer. From the same folks who brought yesterday’s discussion of sexual assault in the military, Miller-McCune brings us the myopic view that we should restore and reconstitute the draft to prevent war;
West Point’s Lance Betros adds: “The military is losing contact with the wider society. And those who make the decisions about military force really don’t have any skin in the fight. We’ve reached the point where you have to wonder how well policy makers understand the consequences of their actions when it comes to national deterrence.”
When the Gates Commission signed off on its report, the 91st Congress had nearly 400 veterans, from World War II and Korea. The just completed 111th Congress had far fewer, 121. Only seven members of the 110th Congress had family serving in Iraq or Afghanistan.
The fear is not that the military would attempt to usurp the government. “The real danger,” Betros says, “is that Americans reflexively move towards a military solution before they will try all the other elements of national power. For now, the country relies very, very heavily on its military, without asking if there is an alternative. When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.”
Is there any half-wit bozo who thinks that the commitment of military forces to Afghanistan or Iraq in the war against terror would have been avoided if there was a draft? Seriously. There was only one solution when thousands of innocent Americans were murdered ten years ago.
If the author of the above thinks that there was an alternative response, I wish he’d remove his skull from deep inside his anus and tell us. He called the Vietnam-era military a “conscript Army” but 648,500 men were draftees of the 2.6 million who served in Vietnam – that’s less than 25%. And having a draft didn’t keep us out of Vietnam.
These anti-war nimnils are just rying to figure out why there is such resistance to their movements and they think if they can get selective service ramped up again, they can be popular again.
Thanks to Finrod.
Category: Antiwar crowd, Military issues
Does anyone honestly think that those with enough power to “make the decisions about military force” won’t write draft laws like they do tax law or any other law to ensure that their best interests remain intact and still won’t have “any skin in the fight”? I don’t see either Obama daughter relieving their secret service detachment so they can be a truck driver in the next conflict.
the draft seems to be the answer of all of our problems – like beer.
Well, them resident trolls ARE half right.
The Republican Party ended the draft. Milton and Rose Friedman were two of the staunchest advocates for ending the draft. They did more to end the draft than some loser hippie burning his draft card at Harvard.
Over the last twenty years, it has been Democrats and left-leaning defense writers like Tom Ricks who have been advocating for the draft to come back, not the Republicans.
Wanna see ’em bolt like frightened horses? Real simple. They get to lead by example. If they bring back the draft, they get to be the first ones in line. No discrimination. Age, gender, physical disabilities… nothing exempts them. If they are responsible for bringing back the draft, they go FIRST.
That’d be the last we’d hear of that.
“And having a draft didn’t keep us out of Vietnam”. No, but it sure as hell helped get us out. Whether it would have made some people question the rationale for invading Iraq, we’ll never know, since bald faced-lies were used to sell that war, lies that the public, myself included, believed at the time.
Operator Dan,
Whatever the Friedmans’ role, it was part of their free market fundamentalist privitization mania, and it worked. Look how many corporations are making big bucks at war these days.
Who says we needed to get out Vietnam, Joe? You? You who wouldn’t serve when you had the opportunity, yet you come on here and tell everyone else they should serve now that you’re too old? Hypocrite. Er…Hippy-crit.
Also during WW2 I was under the impression that many people went Airborne because it was a volunteer outfit and that they rather trust their life to someone who stepped forward to serve than was chosen at random. I am not one hundred percent sure on the numbers but didn’t WW2 have more people desert that Nam? The draft was in full force and that did not bring the war to a close any faster. How do you address the fact that if people were drafted that it would make college harder to get into? Because if more people are trying to attend the more selective the colleges can be. Same thing goes for student grants and scholarships. What happens to the people that cannot join for whatever reason but cannot get into college due to people hiding out to avoid the draft?
Also was there a reduced service time if you volunteered rather then got selected? I remember that one of the Kennedy got lower service time because of that.
Oh speaking of service time, what is the rhyme and reasoning behind non NCO positions beyond E4?
Still pushing the “bald-faced lies” meme, Joey? You are a tiresome troll.
It was a lie then, and it’s a lie now UpNorth. A lie, or should I say a pack of lies, is still a pack of lies.
Can I get a reply to how a draft would have negative effects if it was put back into place?
Most of the folks making the argument for a draft are relying on fear to make their true argument: no army whatsoever.
Anyone with two neurons firing in sequence and a history book knows today’s argument doesn’t make sense.
Sporkmaster,
The negative effects are these:
Further separation between the haves and have-nots of our society. As Bobo mentioned above: those who write the rules implementing this new force are already beholden to the wealthy contributors to their re-election campaigns. Since the 1860s, this has always been the case in America.
Increased combat optempo, decreased training optempo. When you have an easily disposable, easily re-constitutable army, you use it often. Training is restricted to the basics: drill, marksmanship, basic tactics, and for some: technical training such as on a howitzer or a truck.
If one is not going to use that Army in combat – why have it in the first place? Who is the enemy?
Increased cost of ownership of said Army, especially after the term of service is completed. Unless one omits veterans benefits.
I am not calling for a draft but rather for Joe to reply to my questions if one was put into place. That if he is willing to force people to enlist that he should address the issues it causes. If not then the question is, why should we consider your idea if your not going to stick around to deal with the problems it causes.
“Nothing is impossible to the person that does not have to do the task”.
After being wounded and in those days…”permanently profiled” I was sent back to the states and did the rest of my time at Edgewood Arsenal Md. The unit I was with was a computer unit that they didn’t have room for at the Pentagon. Except for the senior enlisted and officers, the vast majority of the guys in the unit were draftees who had computer backgrounds. Went right from basic to Edgewood. The computers filled warehouses and don’t do what your home computer can do today but there were not enough trained enlistees to fill the positions. I didn’t even have a clue what a computer was. Being a SGT they put me incharge of a bunch of draftees who “coded morning reports”. This base was actually not a bad assignment…no formations, very few inspecions….the draftees brought them on themselves for being whinny assholes. They destroyed the new beer machine in the day room the first night it was there, and tore up the furnature. Inspections then started. Beer machine never returned. Being an E-5 I had basically a 24/7 “liberty card” or pass. E-4 and below had to get a pass to get off base. I made sure the assholes that caused the problems in my squad didn’t get off base much. In Vietnam I was amazed at the amount of RA’s I served with in the field. The vast majority were RA’s not US’s. Per Capita, there were more volunteers during Vietnam than WWII. I most certainly would have rather been back with my Airborne buddies than the assholes I served with at Edgewood. Thank God for my CO and SGTMAJ who listened to me and got me out of that job. They made me a driver and all I had to do was drive tapes from EA to the Pentagon. Never had to drive one on a Friday…which meant I could get the hell outta there Thursday. I know not all draftee’s were like these guys…but I like the idea much more of the all volunteer Army. There will still be gripers and shit birds…but most want… Read more »
Sporkmaster,
Whoops, thought you were calling for general commentary.
#9, I’m not even going to try to start this up again. You’re like the punch-drunk boxer, Joey. You walk right into a left hook, get knocked on your ass, get up and walk right into a left hook again.
It’s sad, yet so entertaining, in a 3 Stooges kind of way.