Vietnam vets at war again
Those filthy hippie freaks of the 60s are so steeped in their self-importance, so self-assured they somehow made a difference in this country’s history, they’re back to attacking the veterans of the same era. Dodging their spittle the first time wasn’t enough, I suppose.
It was honest-to-goodness Vietnam veterans who dealt the death blow to John Kerry’s 2004 Presidential bid. Not only did the Swiftboat Vets do him in, but a thousand or so veterans stood outside the Capitol one September afternoon and told America that John Kerry lied while good men died.
In 2005,Vietnam veteran Michael A. Smith spit tobacco juice into the face of Jane Fonda in Saint Louis. Millions of veterans of all eras stood and cheered for Smith doing what we’d all wanted to do for so long. The Left was outraged that one of them was on the receiving end of a differing opinion – that someone would actually disagree with their treasonous, shallow opinions.
The Left trotted out “research” that “proved” that not one Vietnam Veteran had ever been spat upon. They even created an expert out of VVAW member Jerry Lembke who couldn’t really prove it didn’t happen so he pooh-poohed it down to an urban myth – the Left, of course, gobbled up the “research” of this Ph.D. In this Slate article, he provides the unassailable proof that it never happened;
He writes that he never met anybody who convinced him that any such clash took place.
Well, that’s enough proof for me. How ’bout you?
Then, the Left held their last successful anti-war demonstration in January 2007. When they spray-painted steps at the Capitol and defaced the statue at the Navy Memorial, Vietnam Veterans said enough was enough.
They put a call out and thousands of Vietnam veterans flocked to the Vietnam Memorial two months later and formed an impenetrable human shield around “their”memorial.
Ever since then, the Left has been disparaging Vietnam veterans. I don’t know how many exchanges I’ve had with IVAW veterans who think that only their service is relevant and they’ve called Vietnam veterans fat, old has-beens. Even my buddy, TSO, an Afghanistan veteran, was physically threatened by IVAW thugs at Winter Soldier when they found out he was a member of Vets For Freedom.
Every time the Left planned an antiwar protest, Vietnam veterans showed up to stand in stark contrast to the anti-war side. Vietnam veterans announced that what had happened to them when they were fighting our nation’s wars would never happen again.
Support for the Left dwindled from thousands at their protest in January 2007 to hundreds at their last big event in March 2008. Now, they’ve decided that they need to focus their rekindled hate for Vietnam Veterans on John McCain.
It began with Jay Rockefeller;
“McCain was a fighter pilot, who dropped laser-guided missiles from 35,000 feet. He was long gone when they hit,” Rockefeller told the newspaper, which published the article on the interview Tuesday.
“What happened when they [the missiles] get to the ground? He doesn’t know. You have to care about the lives of people. McCain never gets into those issues,” he is quoted saying.
Then Wesley Clark, because he got away with it defending Hillary back in March, disparaged McCain’s Vietnam service using nearly the same words. It’s signaled the Left’s attack poodles that McCain’s Vietnam experience is fair game.
My buddy, Robin at Chickenhawk Express quotes Code Pink’s Medea Benjamin;
“I wouldn’t characterize anybody who fought in Vietnam as a war hero,” said Medea Benjamin, a co-founder of the theatrical anti-war group Code Pink. “In 23 bombing sorties, there must have been civilians that were killed and there’s no heroism to that.”
“Anyone who can’t look back and admit how wrong it was to be in Vietnam and be killing civilians deserves to be challenged,” she said, though she stressed that her group is more focused on McCain’s present support for the war in Iraq than on his past.
At Lew Rockwell, Michael Gaddy uses McCain’s “I’m a war criminal” confession given to his captors against McCain. At the Daily Kos, they ask “What’s so special about McCain’s service?;
Getting shot down, tortured and then doing propaganda for the enemy is not command experience….
But being a Harvard-educated lawyer does?
Politico even exhumes the corpse of Vietnam activist Noam Chomsky for a quote on the subject;
Noam Chomsky, the linguist and activist, said in an e-mail that he thought Americans should question whether McCain’s torture in an unjust war is relevant to his campaign.
“The questions could scarcely even be understood within the reigning intellectual and moral culture — though I don’t doubt that much of the population would understand,” Chomsky said.
Confederate Yankee writes;
We’ve known that Barack Obama’s base among the radical fringe would bring out some long-seated uglinesses in part of the Democratic Party that makes up his base, but I don’t think that anyone could have expected it would come out this soon, this hard, this transparently.
It’s been building for years – since they got away with disparaging Dan Quayle’s and George W. Bush’s National Guard service, it was inevitable.
Category: Antiwar crowd, Code Pink, Politics, Protests/Rallies, Support the troops
Lempke is a dumb ass. When I came back I didn’t get spit on, but at the SFO airport some long haired dippy hippie threw some kind of red liquid on me. Guess it was supposed to resemble blood. I knocked him on his ass, and was promptly arrested. Figured I was gonna spend my leave in jail. At the jail they took me to the officers dressing room and let me shower. Told me to wear civilian clothes. Didn’t have any so I got out a clean uniform from my duffel bag, and they took me back to the airport. A cop stayed with me until my plane boarded. Knowing what I now know about Frisco I’m still surprised by how good the cops treated me.
Screw the VVAW & their offspring the IVAW
These idiots think they’re being sly with their “does military service really equal experience for being POTUS”, but they’re really just using this as an excuse slime McCain. Love him or hate him, you have to at least respect what John McCain endured for his country. For these people to be so flippant about it is disgusting.
Jonn,
Wow, you linked to Crazy Lew and his Crazy Blog (his website reminds me of a sheisty used car dealership like “I’m Crazy Lew! And over at my blog we’ve got neo-nazis, conspiracy nuts, 9/11 truthers, people still living in Mom’s basement jerking off to Star Trek, and much much more!”? Man, talk about going dumpster diving through the internets.
Jonn wrote: I needed some context.
A-4 Skyhawks didn’t drop laser guided bombs. It was basically a daylight dive bomber. The first laser guided weapons used in Vietnam were PAVE equipped Air Force F-4 Phantoms, if memory serves me correctly.
Coupla points:
I was at Kerry Lied and I’d swear the number was guess-timated at well over 2000.
I certainly was spat AT at SFO in early ’69. It did land on the guy walking beside me. Kinda tired of hearing it never happened.
Aside: I hadn’t noticed a resurgence in the level of hatred for us ‘Nam Vets, that implies that it had diminished at some time, and I wonder if it really did. Just one of them perspective things, maybe?
I believe soldiers were spat upon by disturbed hippies in the 60’s. Unfortunately, point and shoot digital cameras with video technologly were decades away.
I can’t believe some skanky IVAW puke threatened TSO! If I were there..well..they really like to take swings at me, so they would not have bothered with TSO.
Thank you Jonn. I learn so much from your blog and from those who comment here.
Today, if a lefty were to spit on a serviceman, I and other patriotic Americans would save you guys the weekend in stir.
WE’D beat the ever living snot out of the pukes and spit on them.
The Iraq Veterans Against the War are puppets mentored and controlled by the old Vietnam veterans Against the War.
Too despised by veterans for their Jane Fonda paid for Winter Soldier treason, they have to hide under a rock called Veterans For Peace like the cockroaches they are.
IVAW was formed from a few Iraq vets who joined VFP. In fact IVAW was announced at the VFP Convention in Boston in 2004. The IVAW “Convention” is just a session at the VFP Convention. VVAW/VFP pukes help run the IVAW National office and did most of the work organizing Winter Soldier 2.1 which called this generation of military serving in Iraq AND AFGHANISTAN war criminals and baby killers just like the 60’s never ended.
IVAW gets its tax free status through VFP. The VVAW core of VFP provided “security” at WS 2.1, including the VFP’s President Elliot Adams.
Everything IVAW has done as a protest is a repeat of some VVAW event from the 60’s/70’s. Only the IVAW didn’t want to march the all the way from Morristown, NJ to Valley Forge, so they started in Philly. Hell if they’re not ashamed of that, why not just take the SEPTA out to Valley Forge and call that a “march”?
The guy who threatened TSO was Bradley Thompson, the VFP Chapter 31 guy who looks like Col Sandres in a beret and dark aviators trying to achieve that “Soldier of Fortune” look.
It would be too bad if someone mistook him FOR Col Sanders and waterboarded him for the names of the 11 secret herbs and spices.
Figure Brad gives up the answer just hearing the water bucket being filled.
And IVAW’s Sgt Coppa reamed Brad a new one. It was a thing of beauty, a work of art, a classic momnet in history, I’ve been told.
Don’t forget, Lew Rockwell knows what Cindy Sheehan looks like naked…..eeeewwwwwww.
I almost forgot, there was kelly Dougherty’s “panel” at WS 2.1 comprised of Ensign, Romo, Cortright and some other Jane Fonda Winter Soldier types reliving their Glory Days by lecturing the IVAW kids on how they did it.
Like I said, VVAW runs IVAW and it’s all one big rerun of the 60’s treason.
Here’s a photo.
Far left, John Grant. Go to Blip.tv and search for VFP Salutes Chavez and you see why John Grant can tell you what Chavez’s butt tastes like.
Far right, only in terms of this picture, is Bradley. Looks like he’d enjoy being dominated by Coppa.
Pol Pot’s apologist Noam Chomsky has got some nerve thinking he is qualified to judge anyone’s character or conduct – this is a man who denied the Khmer Rouge’s crimes against humanity in Cambodia, and to this very day continues to deny the existence of the democide that followed the fall of Indochina.
Speaking of Chomsky, Paul Bogdanor has compiled an outstanding library of material on America’s most disingenuous ideologue here:
The Chomsky Hoax
Jonn,
Thank you for this reminder. I was one of the vets who was not actually spat upon; I was lucky, sort of. I know of others who were. But I, like everyone else, was metaphorically spat upon. Actual spitting and/or assault is not the only thing which can demoralize a young man just home from war. That is a reason I go to confront the bastards every time I can make the trip.
But I do have to admit that Ketchup Kerry did me one great service. His campaign drew us Viet Vets into the public square, where we all redisscovered our identities. They now comprise most of my friends, some of them posted here, above me. I suppose I should thank Kerry for that – but I’m petty-minded enough that I never will.
Nice potshots at Lew Rockwell, guys…too bad none of you possess a fraction of the man’s IQ, not to mention are unqualified to carry his jockstrap.
LT Nixon, if you can, please tell me why Lew Rockwell is crazy? I see you classified his blog/website under the “scary” category on your pathetic blog.
I like this blog because the unintentional humor factor is high. Although Jonn, TSO, COB6, LT Nixon, et al. probably believe they are performing some sort of service in promoting neconservative ideals, this blog is really just a collection of aged, deluded, military veterans living unfulfilling lives completely devoid of original thought. And so they do what old bastards do: bitch, bitch, bitch to the reinforcing, mouth-breathing audience that populate this site.
Keep the posts coming, guys – humor takes on many forms. May your collective intellect never supersede that of a sixth grader.
Floyd,
When you can stop the name calling and cite some facts, I’ll take you seriously, till then “Ha, ha..”
Jonn, if you’re going to have any shot at being fair and balanced, I think it’d be only right to point out that IVAW as a whole does not look down on the service of Vietnam veterans. I know I never have, and I’ve listened to people that hate me and have openly wished for me to die and burn in hell. Because they are veterans, and have earned the right to disagree.
TSO was not physically threatened by ‘IVAW thugs’. He got into an altercation with a VVAW member, and it was the IVAW member who came through. There are IVAW members dating VFF members right now, and many friends across the aisles as well. We’ve got no beef with VFF, other than the fact that they’re wrong, of course. 😉 But any veteran’s organization making noise is A-OK by me.
Also, IVAW is not all “the left”. We have a ton of Republicans and Libertarians who would strongly disagree with that characterization. I’m not sure how I manage to become “the left” myself.
As for why Winter Soldier only had a crowd of hundreds, it was because it was a tightly controlled event, and we only had space for hundreds at the National Labor College campus without severely abusing the AFL-CIO’s hospitality.
Talk about “the left” all you want, but don’t bring IVAW into it.
Also, I will make fun of Bush’s going AWOL from the Air National Guard all I want. I’m Regular Army-I deserve it!
TSO: I want the names of all VFF personnel dating IVAW, so I can have them purged immediately. The only way to avoid this fate is to have Ms’s Hogg, Coppa or Dougherty to date me. I see no other way.
However, she is right on who threatened me and who came to get me in. And remarkably, I can ALMOST buy off on saying that AS is a libertarian. I know, I didn’t believe it either, but she doesn’t talk the liberal talking points when not in public. But, I need to stop defending her or be branded.
“Also, I will make fun of Bush’s going AWOL from the Air National Guard all I want. I’m Regular Army-I deserve it!”
Then I guess it’s OK for me to make fun of you for joining an all volunteer Army, and wanting to choose what wars you’re willing to fight.Freaking idiots!
As long as you identify yourself by service and give your reason, sure!
USMC retired
Freaking idiots.
Floyd,
I’m sorry you thought my blog was “pathetic” and represented neo-conservative ideas. Perhaps if I did a post about the Bilderberg group being behind the 9/11 attacks or the rise in gas prices, I could have gotten some street credit.
Anyhoo, Crazy Lew’s blog is a silly place where Ron Paul is hailed as a prophet, U.S. military forces are considered war criminals, and people are STILL mad about the South not seceding with Lincoln referred to as a “monster” (geez, it was almost 150 years ago, let it go). As a veteran of the U.S. military who doesn’t think Ron Paul should be sainted, I find the website very entertaining.
TSO: When did you become a conservative LT? See, I’ve been trying to pull you over, should I now tell Bellavia Mission Accomplished?
TSO: I can see the hunts now. “Are you or have you ever dated one of these women?”
I think I would be closest to libertarian-I just can never decide whether I’d rather throw away my vote or vote for the lesser of two evils on a consistent basis.
Also, LT Nixon isn’t even conservative. To be honest, his opinions fall in line with a few IVAW members, and I wish he’d think about joining more.
TSO,
Lew and his angry band of Star Trek-appareled paleolibertarians think everyone is a neoconservative who doesn’t want to abolish the federal government. Back when Clinton was in power, you were an elitist liberal if you didn’t want the gub’ment to go away. Just a sign of the times really.
TSO was not physically threatened by ‘IVAW thugs’. He got into an altercation with a VVAW member
Yeah, that same VVAW member was present when I was assaulted by a ‘Veteran For Peace’ in March.
Birds of a feather do flock together.
We have a ton of Republicans
They are called ‘RINO’s’ – and are about as Republican as I am.
[Jonn, if you’re going to have any shot at being fair and balanced, I think it’d be only right to point out that IVAW as a whole does not look down on the service of Vietnam veterans.] No, you’re just led and mentored by those responsible for most of the pain endured by the Vietnam generation of military. And they did not deserve how they were mistreated. [I know I never have, and I’ve listened to people that hate me and have openly wished for me to die and burn in hell.] I’ll concur on the burn in Hell part for the VVAW pukes. As to when, that’s God’s decision. BTW, I had one Vietnam Vet confide in me that he disowned a life long friend, not for his past VVAW participation, but for his present IVAW support. [Because they are veterans, and have earned the right to disagree.] What earned you the right to trash your own generation of military with Winter Soldier 2.1? [TSO was not physically threatened by ‘IVAW thugs’.] I never said it was, keep up or take notes. It was VVAW thugs. [He got into an altercation with a VVAW member…] You need to study your own notes. […and it was the IVAW member who came through.] I want video, or a transcript. [There are IVAW members dating VFF members right now, and many friends across the aisles as well.] The VFF guys have always had a rep as being “easy”. [We’ve got no beef with VFF, other than the fact that they’re wrong, of course.] Nice to hear you like Real Men. [But any veteran’s organization making noise is A-OK by me.] I think you’re hearing AK-47s from Camillo’s “Victory Brigade”. [Also, IVAW is not all “the left”. We have a ton of Republicans and Libertarians who would strongly disagree with that characterization. I’m not sure how I manage to become “the left” myself.] Name one person on our side that been seen in a Che shirt. On your side there’s TJ, Peysner, you pal around with Code Pink, the Bolshivicks known as Beckers,… Read more »
You don’t have to agree with the war in Iraq to be a “true Republican”.
Also, I’m sorry you had an incident with that guy, but he wasn’t IVAW, and I can’t take responsibility for those actions.
[Also, I’m sorry you had an incident with that guy, but he wasn’t IVAW, and I can’t take responsibility for those actions.]
Nice try. He’s part of the group that shows up at IVAW HQ inside that AFSC bunker and helps run the show.
Technically you’re correct, he’s not IVAW, he’s just gives the IVAW orders.
PS: It wasn’t an “incident”, the guy hit her. Not a round house punch, but he got physical. How physical does a guy have to get before you don’t downplay it as an “incident”?
Skye said assaultted”, not incident.
Deming:
You didn’t say “IVAW thugs”, that was Jonn. I don’t have video, but TSO has already confirmed it. It’s probably better there isn’t a transcript, given the amount of yelling I vaguely recall. And I like all vets. Real men? Real men are those who stand by their ideals, beliefs, and values, whatever those might happen to be.
Also, I don’t know how much more I can be on record with preferring democracy to socialism.
Also, I’m sorry you had an incident with that guy, but he wasn’tI IVAW, and I can’t take responsibility for those actions.
Yes, you can, you stand with individuals of this nature, which make culpable.
If you do not condone these actions, don’t stand among thugs that assault women.
A/S,
Well endulge me and tell us as much of that as you remember…
I hear you had Bradley so terrified he was about to give up the 11 secret herbs and spices…
Skye,
Police have a word for it, “accessory”.
Sorry, TSO, I have a lovley girlfriend who keeps me warm at night. Maybe we can get a reality TV series going trying to find love in unlikely places, like between VFF and IVAW members.
I can’t help but laugh, out loud, at Skye’s comment about standing amoung thugs who assault women. If one assault is all it takes everyone should leave the military too. Hopefully though instead of leaving, people will try to do something about it, in IVAW and the military.
I’d love to know who it was, I’ll get the skinny from AS and talk to them myself. If there is anything the “sides” have in common it is that sexist assholes can be anywhere.
Jenn.
I am devastated. Simply devastated. 🙂
Good to see you though.
Hey Hogg,
That guy who hit Skye was associated with the core group running the IVAW HQ at AFSC and making the arrangements for Winter Soldier 2.1
They openly put out there that they are/were doing everything in their power to help IVAW.
So your integrity says that a little bit of thuggery is OK?
The ends justify the means Comrade?
Ignoring everything else for a second, Michael A. Smith is a pig for spitting tobacco juice in anyone’s face, even if it is Jane Fonda.
Touting this kind of bullshit as good news makes us look like a bunch of fucking whackos, and doesn’t convince anyone in the middle.
It really is less cumbersome for many to engage in creativeness than some others but you can educate yourself a way to be a creative thinker. You may realise you are not at all an innovative individual, but this is not correct. We all have creative thinking in us somewhere; it is exactly what makes us human beings.