Thiessen confronts Amanpour
Former Bush speechwriter Marc Thiessen sent me this YouTube video of his interview on Chritiane Amanpour’s show yesterday (the confrontation begins at about 5:48);
It continues in this second video;
Thiessen makes the point that many of us have made, that waterboarding has been inflicted on 10s of thousands of American troops at SERE school. Part of the conversation from Human Events;
Thiessen told Amanpour, “There have been so many so misstatements told about the enhanced interrogation techniques, comparing them to the Spanish Inquisition and the Khmer Rouge, and I have to tell you Christiane, you are one of the people who have spread these mistruths.”
An incredulous Amanpour replied, “Excuse me?”
Thiessen pulled out a transcript of her story from her visit to S-21, and said “Let me read to you what you said.” He then quoted Amanpour’s report:
“I stared blankly at another of Van Nath’s paintings. This time a prisoner is submerged in a life-size box full of water, handcuffed to the side so he cannot escape or raise his head to breathe. His interrogators, arrayed around him, are demanding information. I asked Van Nath whether he had heard this was once used on America’s terrorist suspected. He nodded his head. ‘It’s not right.”
Thiessen told Amanpour, “That is completely false.” Amanpour asked, “That’s false?” Thiessen told her, “We did not submerge people in a box of water.” Amanpour replied, “Excuse me a second, that is called waterboarding.” “No it’s not,” Thiessen replied. Amanpour tried to turn to the other guest, left-wing author Philippe Sands, but Thiessen pressed his point: “Christiane you are absolutely wrong. 14,000 people killed in S-21. Seven survivors …” But Amanpour cut him off, “Excuse me, you are trying to obfuscate the debate. That prison was full of images of water torture.” Thiessen responded, “Which is nothing like what the CIA did. Do you have any evidence …” Amanpour cut him again off to go Sands, after which Amanpour tried to change the subject.
But Thiessen pressed her: “I want to answer this, because it is very important. What you said was not waterboarding but a barrel filled with water. You have no evidence whatsoever that the CIA did what you said they did.”
Obviously, being called a liar and presented with the evidence on her show doesn’t sit well with Amanpour. Thiessen had better watch his bac, though. Amanpour married into the Clinton circle.
Category: Antiwar crowd, Media, Terror War
Jonn-
She got handed her ass, no doubt. These people are idiots and will continue as such.
Hey, I have an idea. Waterboard me and videotape it. I VOLUNTEER. Seriously. I *will* volunteer. I mean it.
Wow, what a great job he did.
I love the whole 2 on 1 thing and he still won the argument.
Christiane doesn’t make any effort to be objective, so kudos to her for that anyway.
I just got finished sending a long email to Professor Sands. It was pretty scathing. I have to say, pseudo-intellectuals like him are going to get people killed.
Here’s his page. Feel free to email him if you’d like.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/laws/academics/profiles/index.shtml?sands
Thiessen is splitting hairs in a very self-serving way. Waterboarding is torture, and it has shamed and disgraced us as a nation. Even the cowardly Thiessen says he reneged on being waterboarded himself because it is, “very unpleasant”. Duh! Just like torture is very unpleasant. Splitting hairs….
And after watching the video, I would say he got handed his ass…..
Joey, got back on mom’s computer yet again? If waterboarding were torture, why aren’t you up in arms about it being done in SERE training? Who, in the real world, gives a shit about whether KSM got it? Your outrage should be about it being done to Americans, even if it’s training. But, it isn’t and that’s very telling about you.
And don’t bring up that it was done by the Japanese and they were convicted of war crimes, that’s just not true.
Joe just like usual you hear only what you want to hear. First of all only three terrorists were waterboarded, and these three are the worst of the worst. If fortunes were reversed do you think they would give any thought about a captured enemy? Do I have to dig up the video of Daniel Pearl? Do tens of thousands of troops claim that they have been tortured?
When these a$$wipes were captured a decision had to be made. These guys weren’t beaten, have their fingernails pulled out, thumbscrews applied, etc… They were given a treatment that tens of thousands of troops have went through and lived without permanent damage. Would you rather we went back to the Clinton days when they were sent to countries that we knew would torture them?
I can’t think of a word that could describe my feeling towards people who want to compare us to the Khmer Rouge. It is a comparison that is so freaking stupid I am befuddled.
When the means justify the ends, there is no telling how far you’ll sink. So because Daniel Pearl got beheaded, we get to torture people? What kind of twisted logic is that? Just because we wear the mantle of “freedom”, when we torture people it’s OK?
Joe–ask yourself two very simple yes or no questions:
1–Did anyone we waterboarded suffer permanent physical harm?
2–Did anyone we waterboarded suffer permanent psychological harm?
No? No again? Shit, guess you lose again.
Oh, and someone actually managed to shut up the “War Whore” for more than half a second? Color me impressed.
Joe, in your pussified worldview, waterboarding is tortue, however, just because you and the sissy brigade think it’s torture, doesn’t actually make it so. The bigger problem is that you think war should be fair, that’s good, however, show me an instance where it has been? To be brutally honest, you wouldn’t last 10 seconds in E&E (SERE) training. That’s because you don’t have the intestinal fortitude to do what’s necessary, which is fine, but I’m getting sick of your limp wristed berating and lecturing of those that are willing to go above and beyond to keep your pussy ass safe, something you are not willing to do.
Did you know that there are specific limits that our interrogators adhere to? Did you know that the rest of the pussy brigade wants to have those limits made public? You are probably all for that, but it will only embolden our enemies more thant they already are. If they know that we will only go so far; what makes you think that they will ever give up any information? Information that may be critical to saving lives? You worry more about some scumbag’s “rights” than you do about keeping our own people safe, which makes you a worthless POS in my book. The truth is, in order to defeat your enemy, you have to stoop to their level. The thing that makes us different than the others is that we will go to those depths to win and once victory is achieved, we return to our previous standards.
Now, go have a good cry and watch your Barney re-runs.
BTW I’ll give you a little hint about what “rights” they have under international law: None. If you don’t believe me, go read the Geneva Conventions on warfighting. I had to attend 2 briefings a year and sign my name stating that I have been briefed and understand the rules, so if I ever break them, I can be held accountable under UCMJ and international treaty.
Joe I am going to say this one more time so your little brain may be able to understand it. Waterboarding is not torture. There are several guys who post on this site who have been through it and if given the opportunity to do it I would just to prove it isn’t.
How about this, why don’t you define what torture is so I can understand the line you draw. In my eyes if it doesn’t involve physical damage or permanent psychological damage its okay. They can be stripped of everything but their basic physiological needs food, water, and air for extended periods of time. Sleep deprevation and stress positions are ok. Beating them is not okay.
NHSparky,
On #1, I don’t think it has been established that being waterboarded 183 times is not hazardous to your health. I would bet there are lasting consequences. There are many people out there that have a vested interest in waterboarding being harmless.
On #2, Again, it has not been established that there are no psychological consequences. Having read reports by people who were waterboarded, it is pretty clear they suffered lasting psychological damage. I don’t buy your premise.
Here’s how I know waterboarding is not torture.
I would alllow myself to be waterboarded. For a price, of course. Pay me a hundred dollars a second. No, two hundred dollars. I might not last that long because it is, as Marc mentioned, “extremely unpleasant”. (That’s kind of the point, isn’t it? In the future, let’s only use pleasant means of extracting information from terrorist masterminds. Would you like another massage, Mohammad?)
On the other hand, I wouldn’t undergo torture for any price. No one is going to apply electric shocks to my balls or pour acid down my throat no matter how much money they pay me.
For all you douchey Amnesty International commentors out there, I have one question–what’s your idea for getting them to talk? Until you can answer that, you don’t have an argument.
Joe
If you are so opposed to torture why the hell come here and torture US with your twisted sense of logic? Now that’s the real crime here…..
Joe, ever familiarize yourself with the concept, “You can’t prove a negative?” Frankly, I’d love to be able to know from where you make such leaps of faith, reasoning that if it hasn’t been proven not to cause permanent damage, therefore it must cause permanent damage. Staggers the imagination, really.
Now go suck a grenade.
Joe you still haven’t answered my question as to what is torture? Do you have any clue? Let me know your idea of the limit?
Civil societies around the world have decided waterboarding is torture. Some of you seem to think brute force is the answer to everything. Ali Soufan, an FBI interrogator, claims waterboarding caused subjects to clam up, not open up. He had much more success with subtler means of interrogation. But subtlties seem lost on some of you guys. Again, you seem to think brute force is always the answer. It might make you feel better, but it has limited effectiveness.
Civil societies–what a joke. Sorry, but the veneer of civility in those nations you hold up is very thin, indeed, Joe.
Joe quit repeating what others tell you. I want to know what you define as torture. I don’t think anyone here has said that brute force is the only way. It is just another tool in the toolbox. There are different ways to make different people talk. I wan’t to know how far you would go. What do you think is torture? Not what other people and civil societies tell you. I want you to define what you think torture is.
So what does it say about me that when I saw the title of this post my first thought was why is Tiffani-Amber confronting anyone?…
Joe: You said this “I don’t think it has been established that being waterboarded 183 times is not hazardous to your health. I”.
I got news for ya cowboy, that’s not exactly true. The CIA and others have stated that the actual number of sessions was 4, not 183. How did they come up with 183? The pantiwaists, such as yourself, considered every time water touch the person as a “time”, that’s how they came up with that lame ass number, just like your weak ass 45,000 dying per year because of no healthcare bullshit.
As for civilised societies; like who? What kinder, gentler techniques did Ali employ, which garnered more information? Did you know that only 3 tangos were waterboarded out of all of them? Yeah, we are so mean and so into brute force that we waterboarded a whopping 3 tangos. 3 of the worst you will ever come across and the 3 big fish in custody. Yeah, we’re so into brute force that I eat my sammich with the crust still on!!!! I am one badass mofo!!!
Well, Jason, I am not a legal scholar, but to paraphrase Justice Potter Stewart, “It’s hard to define, but I know it when I see it”. When I look at people being waterboarded, and I have seen videos of well-known people being waterboarded, I know it.
OldTrooper,
I got ya beat…..I don’t peel my carrots!!! AND I eat the brownies on the corner!!
“It’s hard to define, but I know it when I see it”.
kinda like an asshole eh?
Now that’ll stand up in court……
Joe then you don’t really have an argument. I am not asking for a legal definition I am asking for your personal beliefs. If you cannot say what it is then you don’t know. You don’t have a basis for an argument. “It’s hard to define, but I know it when I see it”, was a chickenshit answer then and it still is today. You are judging people who had to make hard decisions and did what they believed was the best of bad options. You are picking one interrogation technique and saying it is torture without saying why. Have some independent thought, that is all I am asking for.
OldTrooper,
When statistics don’t support your argument, just toss out the statistics! The Harvard study that estimated 45,000 Americans die unnecessarily die each year was a peer reviewed study, and the best you can come up with is, “just like your weak ass 45,000 dying per year because of no healthcare bullshit”! Likewise the 183 times KSM was waterboarded. He was subjected to near drowning 183 times in a month, and all you can say is bullshit! You’re wrong, period.
Joe just walk around the world with your blinders on and never question what you are told. Just dig a little deeper you will see why that 45,000 number is bullshit. It is not based on actual numbers it is based on the likely hood that someone will die. I am done trying to get you to think…
Joe,
Here’s what happens when folks like you set what is “acceptable”. Soldiers stop taking prisoners. Soldiers stop finding any wounded enemy combatants. It isn’t worth their time to worry about prisoners or enemy wounded, because some assmaggot JAG or political asswipe or bleeding heart pussy will try and make them justify their actions. With no prisoners, no wounded, no problems.
I was going to post more. I had a longer post written, but I deleted it, because it isn’t worth it to try and respond to you. You haven’t a clue.
AW1, I have made the same argument to a lot of my hippie friends. They don’t seem to understand.
I’m wrong? Yeah, if they consider that “peer review”, I think they need to get their money back on their education, since the data sets were ambiguous, at best, and just downright lazy data analysis at worst. They extrapolated numbers based on the original interviews with absolutely no followup on conditions at the time of death, or circumstances in the years following the original interview. Trust me, I’ve seen the data and their process for coming to the conclusion they did. So, no, I’m not wrong.
As I stated, he had 4 waterboarding sessions, not 183. If you consider the “near drowning” as your basis, then you have set the standard really low, since you know nothing of what waterboarding really is. Since you have your own standard for torture, I see no reason to continue trying to point out that you have absolutely no clue what the difference is between actual torture and something a bunch of pussies consider torture. I think that subjecting anyone to a picture of Rosie O’Donnell naked is torture, so can I get that classified as such with whatever wussy group or civilized country thinks that waterboarding is torture?
Joey, you still buying into the BS that 45,000 die because they can’t get healthcare? That’s been proven false so many times it’s just absolutely awesome that you drag it out yet again. ANYONE in the U.S. can get health care. It’s a law, dipshit. NO ONE can be turned away, if they seek it. And you quote Hahvahd, no less. Well, we all know that’s an unimpeachable source, right? I’ll judge their integrity when they release some other documents, mmmm-kay?
But, to make it easy on ya, Joey, just stand in the shower, put the wet wash cloth over your face and let the water flow on it. Then, get back to us.
But, I have to go along with Tim, trying to make any kind of point with you is like doing home tooth extraction, painful and, in the end, just frustrating.
Joe…
Funny thing about that means to an end stuff. We hear it all the time from the democrats who have a mantra “the reps did it first, and when we do it second, we should get a pass because we were doing it for a *better* reason”
What is the meaning of THAT? if something is wrong, it doesn’t matter who does it. I believe in torture. And waterboarding is not torture. And it prevented several hits from occurring, no matter how much denying you do.
And that 45k number is ridiculous.
Follow me- you have one person insured who smokes and one not insured who smokes. They both die. Was it because they were both smokers or because one lacked insurance? You can say that uninsured people die, but the reason is not soley because of the lack of coverage.
How many people die because they have a disease that cannot be cured? Or is it because they are not insured? How many drunks kill people? Does it matter if *those* people had insurance? You get it, yet?
Don’t waste your time on this maggot. Its clear he has no beliefs other than a grinding sense of self righteousness. If he really wnated to know the difference, I think we could make it very clear in 30 seconds or less.
The Geneva accords specifically denote the rights afforded to illegal combatants and define just what those combatants are. Terrorists (there is no such thing as an insurgent, tht is a bullshit word made up for the media to make them sound less malignant) are illegal combatants, and they have absolutely no rights under the Accords. It specifically states that they may be executed upon capture. So we have been treating them infinitely better than they could be under the international laws that the inestimable Ruth Bader Ginsburg says we should follow instead of our own.
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