Reduction of US defense stockpiles in support of Ukraine
The war in Ukraine has not just depleted defense stockpiles held by both the Ukrainians and the Russians. It has also depleted stockpiles held by the United States and by other Western countries. Would the US and its allies have enough defense stockpiles to support Taiwan or another country facing similar invasions? It does not appear that the U.S. production rate would indefinitely be able to keep up with continued weapons and rounds supply to Ukraine.
From The National Defense:
According to the Defense Department, in the six months from March to September, the United States supplied Ukraine with more than 800,000 155mm artillery rounds. From Sept. 28 to Oct. 28, it donated another 100,000 rounds. The September production capacity, meanwhile, was only 14,400 rounds per month. While the exact number of 155mm artillery rounds the United States possesses is unknown, this gap between utilization and production will significantly deplete its reserves over time.
The current plan to increase production capacity would incrementally bring the total number of 155mm rounds produced per month to 36,000 over the next three years. While this represents an improvement, even this will not address and backfill a depletion rate of more than 100,000 per month.
Other weapon systems face even more dire production challenges. The United States has delivered more than 1,400 Stinger anti-aircraft systems to Ukraine, helping prevent Russian domination of contested airspace. Having been focused on counterinsurgency operations over the past 20 years, the Pentagon has not procured Stingers in more than a decade. Raytheon Technologies — the manufacturer of the Stinger — reported earlier this year that several materials used in the production of the Stinger are no longer available. As such, Raytheon will not be able to resume Stinger production until 2023.
As for the Javelin, the Pentagon has continued to procure the anti-armor system over the years. Ramping up production of both the system and missiles will be less challenging than the Stinger. In an interview with CBS News, Lockheed Martin’s CEO Jim Taiclet stated the production of Javelin missiles could be upgraded from approximately 2,000 missiles per year to 4,000 over the span of several years. The required multi-year window to upgrade production capabilities is an evident issue across the defense industrial base. Furthermore, it is also not clear that 4,000 missiles per year will be sufficient, given the need to replenish depleted supplies, the strong potential for the war in Ukraine to continue and Taiwan’s need for similar systems.
The weapons used to devastating effect in Ukraine are already in high demand in Taiwan. The Biden administration has signaled support for turning Taiwan into a “porcupine” that would be costly to invade, thus deterring the People’s Republic of China from attacking. This strategy would take the form of asymmetric warfare — placing an emphasis on the use of systems such as Stingers and Javelins as opposed to tanks and helicopters.
The war in Ukraine has already strained defense procurements for Taiwan. In August, the island abandoned a contract to purchase 155mm M901 self-propelled howitzers after a 2023 delivery date was pushed back to 2026 due to supply chain stress.
The replacement for the M901 will hardly relieve strains on the defense industry. Taiwan now plans to increase its purchase of HIMARS systems from 11 to 29 by 2027.
The U.S. defense industrial base is operating in a distinctly different environment than it was five years ago — great power competition is again paramount, and there is an unexpected need to replenish U.S. military stockpiles.
To properly support Ukraine, enhance Taiwan’s ability to defend itself against attack and maintain its own readiness, the U.S. government must work to enhance the production capacity of critical weapons systems in the short and long term.
The National Defense has the article here. YouTuber Binkov’s Battlegrounds provide a detailed, researched look, at supply versus production of US artillery stocks:
Category: Military issues, Russia, Ukraine
Shameless Off Topic:
So, it is that time of the year when I have to decide how to continue contributing to the TSP, roth or traditional.
Until I deployed last year I was using traditional, but during deployment I changed to roth to take advantage of the tax free incentive.
So, should I stay roth or go back to traditional?
The pros with traditional is that there is more money going into my TSP account, and it lowers my tax bracket for income tax. Of course, with Roth the taxes are paid and I don’t have to worry about taxation when the time comes for me to actually cash this thing.
Do you think the higher volume of money and lowering the tax bracket with Traditional offsets the advantages of not having to pay taxes when cashing from the Roth?
I am missing something else here?
Thank you.
So it depends. If you are sure you are going to have a high retirement income pay the taxes now.
If you think not so much, defer the taxes and THEN invest the tax savings instead of blowing it on hookers, cocaine, diapers, beans and a Dodge Charger.
I doubt my retirement income is going to be high.
How much can he blow on Bud LIght?
In these hard economic times, maintaining a strict budget of disposable income is a must to provide adequate funding to the aqueous consumables fund.
Bud light is for the rich kids. Stick with the PBR and Nattys. When times get tough… Beast.
PBR and Nasty Light? Jesus, man, drink Yuengling. Best damn beer you can find at a reasonable price point. Or, go ahead and drink that cheap shit, more of the good stuff for me and my compadre, KOB.
Testify! Mi’ Amigo!
Beer makes one smart. After all, it made Bud wiser
Shameless Response:
Do a three year hitch with a combat zone deployment or two.
Then go to college and earn a degree or two
Then go work in the military industrial complex for a few
decades on Hawk, Aegis, Patriot, Stinger etc while saving for
retirement. Then retire with a healthy pension or two and sit
back and watch it all burn.
Oh, and stay out of the stock market.
“Oh, and stay out of the stock market.”
Now you tell me!
Not too worried about the 155. It hasn’t been used much for decades and likely won’t ever be. Clearing out old stocks is likely a good idea. It would be a huge step backwards to start using cannons again. The Javelins, Stingers and HiMARS OTOH, are important.
Keep in mind though that the take down of the Russian military was near total. Their armored force and the Army is completely demoralized and badly depleted. They also went through the senior leadership ranks like cord wood in a stove. It hasn’t cost one American life so far, so it is dirt cheap. Tom Clancy, if you are listening, you were right again.
Russia was considered one of two near peers and they can’t defeat a small but well equipped and very determined neighbor. They also lack the resources and trade to rebuild their military. But for nukes they would probably be occupied right now.
That only leaves China with their aspirations for taking Taiwan. China has been watching the Ukraine like an expectant dad.
Plenty of 155mm were used in Iraq and the Afgh of the stan.
Define plenty? We are talking 900K rounds here.
“April, 1951, some 158,303 tons of artillery ammunition were fired to turn back the attack. The logistics effort to sustain that rate was prodigious: 27 Liberty Ship loads of ammunition, or the equivalent of 3,332 rail-car loads.”
“Allied guns fired 2,710,248 rounds in June, 1953, and 2,000,982 rounds in July.”
I would call that plenty. After the invasion in Iraq artillery was seldom if ever used to prevent collateral. Afghanistan was different with a dispersed population and more mountainous terrain. But still not used much.
“…After the invasion in Iraq artillery was seldom if ever used”
Because there was no occasion to use it. No targets–no need for artillery.
The Chinese military is plagued by the same ineptness, corruption, not battle ready, etc., issues that the Russians are facing in Ukraine.
Their military does not train like the US/NATO military trains, they’re more like the Russians. From one account, they just train during the summer. Xi ordered them to do a field training, which usually consists of moving from point A to B and doing “fan fires” from their different platforms and doing other scripted exercises. They suffered a lot of equipment breakdown and even aircraft crashes.
Rumor has it that the Russians are going to be doing a full mobilization operation next year.
How much is left to mobilize?
I wonder if they will still be using the three line technique, where the people in the 2nd and 3rd line are supposed to kill all the traitorous cowards running away.
They still use that. There was communication intercept where the person talking on the phone, to family, said that his job was to shoot those running from the front line, and that there was a unit behind him ready to shoot anybody from his line that ran away from the front.
Their incompetence is such that they’re having a larger than normal amount of fratricide incidents.
Yup, how they’re doing it with those conscripts now… as dramatized in Enemy at the Gates:
All this war talk has got everybody with their eyes off the dang prize, the bankers may win out the mostest but let us not forget that mother fucker Jody.
To remind everyone why we peace, this piece…
They may be inept and corrupt and lack imagination but they are an awful lot of them and they are passably good at imitation.
One thing I don’t get is their artificial island strategy. I mean they understand that those things don’t move right? Unless they have come up with some new magic they are simply large self-isolated targets.
Their imitation is terrible, as indicated in their exercises, and in the incident on the disputed border with India. Their imitation equipment has proven to be cheap and ineffective knock offs. Just like in Russia, corrupt officials, and corrupt factory workers, have siphoned a lot of money and material from the production, leaving a cheap BS product to go through.
Their tactics are archaic, like that of the Russians. They need a workable combined arms capability, they also need a real NCO corps.
They apparently also have discipline problems. There was one report describing how their upper brass raised concern of the “masturbation epidemic” that was negatively impacting discipline in the ranks.
Unlike the case with the Russians, many of the folk in their ranks are the result of a “one child policy”, the kids were spoiled growing up. The Russians have allegedly exceeded 75/80 thousand KIA in Ukraine. Just think of how a similar KIA number would hit the Chinese public.
That is a good point on the 1 Child policy. I have no idea what real world effects that might have.
Seems I have read all that before; about the Japanese in’41, the Chinese in ’50, and the VC/NVA. Along with how smart, well-equipped and well-trained Americans were/are. A lot of dead Americans believed it, too.
Overestimating ones own abilities and underestimating the martial abilities of the enemy seems to be popular. I am pretty sure Lord Chelmford’s troops didn’t have much regard for the primitive Zulu rabble opposing them right up until the Zulu asegais punctured them. Pity the Brits didn’t seem to have learned much from the incident, else they wouldn’t have had so many casualties and setbacks from the distinctly unmilitary Boer rabble, who evidently did no military exercises at all.
Part I
No, you have not seen al that before. Why? There are major differences between assumptions made in the wars that you reference, and today. The assumptions made, by the examples that you brought up, are parallel to the assumptions that the Russians made earlier this year regarding Ukraine.
In all of the examples that you brought up, assumptions were made that assumed that what happened in the past would be what would happen in the future. They would do things by the book and take it from there.
My assessment is based on two things… My understanding on how the US side does things based on my own military experience… Extensive/exhaustive study/review/reading of how the Chinese and Russians do things. On the Ukraine subreddit alone, I lost count of how many video I’ve seen of how Russians did things in the battlefield. I also lost count of how many radio intercepts I’ve seen of the Russians themselves talking about the challenges that they faced.
Part II
Case in point, in one video I saw a group of Russian soldiers, walking without support from nearby elements, walking through ruins like Sailors on liberty. This was right before the drone got them. In another instance, I watched a video where Russian soldiers were walking on the road, not paying attention to the sky, or even to their flanks, then down went the drone round.
Radio intercepts? Russians quitting on the battlefield and just leaving, commanders saying “f* it” and driving away from where their troops are at. For get about the kind of pull back we were trained to do. In one radio intercept, a guy complained about how “they were just standing there like mother f*rs while everybody left. Should we talk about soldiers being stinken drunk on the battlefield, and the lack of coordination resulting in a lot of Russians killing each other?
My arguments are based on reality, as demonstrated by the sides involved. You bring up a strawman argument.
“other scripted exercises.”
Most exercises are “scripted”. Particularly live-fire exercises. When you go to the field for an exercise, it is not generally “free play”. You practice various specific maneouvers by the book (i.e. scripted) as set forth in the training schedule (script).
Exercises by their nature require a lot of “moving from point A to B”. Movement itself needs to be practised. Just ask anyone who has ever been in charge of a troop movement; administrative or tactical.
Which reminds me of the Abe Lincoln story about when he commanded a militia company. “Once, faced with a rail fence during practice maneuvers and forgetting the parade-ground instructions to direct his men over it, he simply ordered them to fall out and reassemble on the other side a minute later.”
https://www.battlefields.org/learn/biographies/abraham-lincoln
You missed the point behind what I meant by “scripted”. Scripted is everything is planned, down to where OPFOR shows, if one is used, what reaction will take place, where and in what direction firing will take place, etc. E.G., in 10 minutes, the enemy will show up on this side, you guys will react, then you move down in X direction, the enemy will attack from the right.
With the Russians and Chinese, they go from point A to point B, then fire their rounds, drive in formation, etc.
That is not how things work today. Maximum realism is injected in our STX/FTX. Although we initially do things by the book, as soon as “s* hits the fan”, what was planned in the beginning of the scenario goes out the window and we’ve resorted to battle drills and other actions. OPFOR is pretty much given a “blank script”. So neither the OCs, OPFOR, nor those going through the scenario know what’s going to happen next until s* starts.
“It hasn’t been used much for decades”
Maybe not by us, because we haven’t needed it. The Ukrainians, however, seem to be using it quite a bit.
“Not too worried about the 155. It hasn’t been used much for decades and likely won’t ever be.”
Oh really?
Well then, I guess that you weren’t ever anywhere near I MEF during the attack towards Baghdad in 2003 during OIF I.
You might want to check with 10th Marines and 11th Marines and see what they have to say about your assertion.
The Biden Administrations “sell low”, “buy high” approach to strategic stockpiles at work again. 🙄
It doesn’t get much lower than giving it away.
It isn’t like the Ukrainians are picking the loads up in NY harbor and taking it home, no, we the U.S. taxpayer are on the hook for shipping and handling charges as well.
So, in a way, the Biden Admin. is digging an even deeper hole than just “giving it away”. They are quickly turning the U.S. into the slut “car hopping” at the drive-in theater.
Add to this, Europe (and/or other actors) working to isolate themselves from cheap energy to the detriment to global energy prices, fucking us in the ‘process’.
Freeport will be exporting LNG and ISO-New England says power outages could be on tap because of LNG shortages, so to make up the difference in purchasing outsourced electrons, CT power Corps are threatening a 50% jump in supply costs.
But “Putin bad, and if we burn down our house that’ll show him.”
Edit: Pinball Preparedness has a vid I’m watching now, seems ’bout right.
“we the U.S. taxpayer are on the hook for shipping and handling charges as well.”
It all kind of makes any claims by US and NATO of “neutrality” seem a little “inaccurate” (to be polite). It seems to me that NATO countries do everything except pull the trigger themselves.
But all this time, money, and effort is not directed against Russia, nosiree Bob. Pure neutral altruism, nothing more.
Plus:
“Cloak of Neutrality” is more applicable, and it has occurred throughout history. The US similarly benefited during the American Revolution. France, Spain, and other countries including Russia were supplying the revolutionaries under the cloak of neutrality before France, the Netherlands, and Spain formally declared war against Great Britain. The Russians are no strangers to this concept even in more recent times.
Or a “Lot Lizard” doing tricks at a Truck Stop.
I’m so glad to see domestic production numbers are up across the board. Maybe we’ll see a doubleplusgooding of chocolate rations to 5 grams a week from 2+2 grams a week!
All hail Big Raytheon!
As long as Zelen-naughti-skky can keep ‘accidentallying’ Polish citizens we can caulk the whole thing up as a W, right?
Nope, they can’t win until Putin is otherthrown or dies. For the Russians, the sooner this happens the better.
2022 was a catastrophe for Russia unlike any since WWII and it is all at his feet.
The war will end within a week or two of him being gone.
Wow. Just all sorts of wow.
This isn’t Risk, my dude. No winning or losing, just various shades of rank destruction.
Putin being in good health is probably the best condition to ensure peace as he seems to be the only one to argue/negotiate in good faith and is keeping the RF’s military reasonably force-proportionate. (also defusing the political pressures at home, rightly or wrongly. But IDGAF, I ain’t Russian)
Could you image a Curtisamoff LeMayliski in charge of strategic airpower?!
Don’t have to imagine it, I was living it when General Wesley Clark ordered British and French Special Forces to attack the Russians at Pristina.
Putin has never negotiated in good faith. His only negotitation involves the installation of a totalitarian dictatorship loyal to him. Like a lot of ego manic leaders the only thing he cares about is Putin and how much power Putin can acquire. He has really painted himself into a corner here though.
If 10:1 is proportionate I hate to see what unproportionate is. But since he stuck his pecker in there and got it chopped off he can’t do it anymore. If unrestricted launching of TBM’s into civilian housing areas and infrastructure is reasonable, unreasonable must be WMDs then. But even the Russians know that would be the end of all things for them.
Which is why Putin needs to go. Like every ego manic, when the downfall starts he will try to destroy everything around him. When his next push fails, and it will fail, then we will see it.
The corresponding power vacuum of a post-Putin Russia is far more frightening then the current stupidity.
I hope for all our sakes this doesn’t come to fruition.
And may I remind all to the whole point of this thread:
At $100 Billion and time not being on our side, this has be ruinous to the medium-term defense capability to NATO but specifically, and way more importantly, to us.
Dirt cheap IMO to not have to worry about fighting a two front war. At the cost of zero US military lives it doesn’t get much cheaper than that. I would totally have paid a $100B to avoid a war with Russia and have thier land Army annihilated. I mean what did you guys think all that ordinance was being saved for anyway?
With the Russia out of the picture a lot other wannabes are given pause as well. When you kill the biggest bear in the woods the other bears don’t come looking for you.
And just like that, presumption that we have a set of durable, redundant capabilities and our ‘enemy’ isn’t able to adapt with a linear-thinking multiplier…
If we (greater West) bleed capabilities you’re only hoping for a direct and equal reaction on the other side of the ledger.
You’re in hubris trap, mi amore.
Never underestimate Ivan (or any foe for that matter)
Some stats (numbers rounded):
Population of all Ukraine Oblasts (e.g., States) without Crimea: 41 million. One half are men = 20.5 m
Subtracting the male population of the 4 Oblasts under Russian control: 20.5 m – 6.3 m = 14.2 m men.
Ukraine’s demographics: 10% are in the 15–24 year-old age range; 44% are in the 25-54* year-old range, hence 1.4 m and 6.3 m potential soldiers respectively. Last I heard (from Russian sources) ~400, 000 Ukrainians have been killed so far. IF so, and the deaths were all in the 15-24 range, this is 28.5% of young men. If spread out equally (unlikely), over the 15-54* range the it represents 5.2% of the eligible men. Do not forget that it takes 6-10 personnel to support one front-line soldier. (to be continued)
(cont)
Russia demographics: 73 m men all ages; 35% in 18-44 age range = 25.5 m men eligible for service.
Hmmm – 25.5m versus 7.7m (at best). Draw your own conclusions of who has a problem.
*age 54 is really stretching the eligible soldiers limit – misma
One account that I’ve read showed that the Russians didn’t intend to mobilize people over 50. Even if they raised that up to 54, there were accounts that they were mobilizing people older than the maximum needed age. One guy was a diabetic in his 60s, he was sent home after there was a public outcry.
The Russians disobey their own rules, and try to get people mobilized who are outside the mobilization range that the Russian government identified. People who would be medically disqualified from going, in the US, are being mobilized.
They’re even violating international law by forcing into service Ukrainians in occupied territories.
Please explain to me why the Russians would draft old, sick men when they have such a large pool of 18-24 year-olds to draw from. Your anecdotal story of a 60 year-old smells like propaganda.
Per the forcing of Ukranians into service: The Donetsk (DPR) and Luhansk (LPR) militias have about 44,000 volunteers. As these two Oblasts are mostly ethnic Russians, I doubt they or the Russians need to force anyone into service.
Just like in the US there will be corruption in the conscription process. They will take what they can get.
Your entire argument reeks of Russian propaganda. You sound like those Russian trolls that I’ve hammered this year.
Not “anecdotal” story, but one of many examples of Russians deviating even from their own rules to conscript people into their military. No need for explanation, do some research. I’ve read other accounts, even seen videos, of men protesting receiving mobilization notices despite being a part of the group that is not supposed to receive one.
Most the Russian public does not personally want to get into the fight. I mean, how many Russians left the country on the news of the partial mobilization? this alone throws your numbers off. In both Russia and in occupied Ukraine, people are fully aware of the high Russian casualty rates, they see joining as madness.
https://nypost.com/2022/09/29/photos-show-aging-russians-forced-to-fight-in-ukraine/
“Most the Russian public does not personally want to get into the fight.”
Most of any public does not want to personally get into the fight. That’s why the US conscripted people in “The Greatest Generation” in WWII (“The Good War”), etc.
Pay attention to the argument. The person I responded to identified the age range of Russians available to be conscripted. I named a reality that impacted that… People leaving Russia to avoid being conscripted. The Russians are reaching into a population outside of what they are supposed to mobilize from.
Bringing in the US during World War II is a strawman. The Russians don’t see Ukraine as a threat to the Russians themselves, and even commented that if they were under attack, they would gladly fight… But they don’t want to fight in Ukraine.
Even with conscription in the US during World War II, people were still volunteering. A comparable case can not be made with what is going on in Russia, as word is spreading fast at how they’re being treated as cannon fodder, how they have crappy leadership, etc.
I would say the 400000 numbers correct with 100000 soldiers and 300000 Civilians. When you fighy domestically as opposed to expeditionary the number of support soldiers drop dramatically.
The Ukrainian side lost a lot of Soldiers, but not as much as the Russians have. I would put the number of Soldiers lost as under the Russian KIA numbers. Most of the Ukrainian deaths are civilian deaths.
Where the Russians are using archaic methods, the Ukrainians are using a lot of Western doctrine. Even though they’re vulnerable to loosing a lot of Soldiers, they have the flexibility to adjust their operations and to operate efficiently.
The Ukraine subreddit occasionally show videos and images of Russian Soldiers in action. https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/
An Army Private, fresh out of Infantry OSUT, would shake his head at the Russian Soldiers, as a lot of what they do in the theater is precisely what Soldiers are taught not to do… It’s like they’re acting like they are on a training exercise while doing everything wrong.
They would get smoked and humiliated during an STX/FTX if they did that a US Army training base.
I would be interested in your sources for # killed, especially the “…most…are civilian deaths”. I have not seen any credible source information for that statement. I don’t have the citation handy, but at one point a Ukrainian general admitted that the ratio of Ukranian soldier losses to Russian losses was about 5:1. Numerous sources, including neutral sources, say the same thing.
I’ve been following the Ukraine War since February 24, 2022. Do you honest to God think that I was going to save every single link I’ve read just in case someone, who can’t debate effectively, demands sources as a substitute for debating? Demanding references, instead of arguing the point, is weak. Either argue the point or concede the point and move on.
Second, the Russians have been heavily targeting civilian areas. Then, after they take an area, if there are civilians left they are subject to torture, rape, murder, etc. The Ukrainians have been uncovering mass graves.
As for numerous sources supporting the 5:1 Ukraine to Russia KIA, I just did an internet search for these numbers, and have turned up empty handed. You demand references, yet you provide none.
Here’s a good place to start your research, plenty of leads are posted on this site that could direct more detailed information search:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/
This comment is, to be polite, not your best effort. It is insulting if you actually expect anyone to take it seriously.
I mean, dude did use reddit as a reference.
Talk about a windowless room with an echo for the ages.
As I mentioned elsewhere on this thread, I use it as a reference, as a lead, from which I do other reading. The fact of the matter is that people, on the ground in Ukraine, have uploaded videos and photos, as well as their personal accounts.
Information on that one subreddit alone matches with information that one could read elsewhere. I use it as one of my information sources.
Great. Painting just ‘one side’ as ‘incompetent’ or lacking in/of discipline is missing a certain amount of neutrality. You wanna rah rah for the Ukrainians, IL, and the sadistic NATO/MIC, cool.
I’m anti this conflict, all of it, but your lying to yourself and have a dribble of koolaid on your chin if you think this doesn’t end poorly for the country and the people of Ukraine.
Oh, here’s a rebuttal to the tactical prowess of the home guard. Enjoy.
Part I
Roh-Dog: Great. Painting just ‘one side’ as ‘incompetent’ or lacking in/of discipline is missing a certain amount of neutrality.
False. It is using a combination of my experiences along with extensive study/research that I’ve done on the topic since the Russians invaded Ukraine. Plenty of video evidence has been presented showing the incompetence of the Russians in Ukraine. My statement is also based on statements made by the Russians themselves (videos of communication intercepts.
Roh-Dog: You wanna rah rah for the Ukrainians, IL, and the sadistic NATO/MIC, cool.
Telling it like it is, based on both experience and extensive study, is not “rah rah” for one side. It’s telling it like it is.
Roh-Dog: I’m anti this conflict, all of it,
And your anti fact, anti research, and anti anything having to do with a fact based, reasoned, logical argument, or with making one.
So ‘videos’ of ‘intercepts’ are factual, without suspicion?
Good to know.
When, not if, a large percentage of Ukrainians freeze to death because of this ‘I need to be right-ism’ who will apologize to those families?
I’m 100% done with this ‘war’ and the Deathmongering.
You can take your empirical research and spin.
Part I
Roh-Dog: So ‘videos’ of ‘intercepts’ are factual, without suspicion? Good to know.
When a trend of the videos, and intercepts, match other kinds of information elsewhere in pointing out what is really going on, to the point that projections could be made, yes. In doctoral research, one of the terms used to describe this is “triangulation of data”.
Roh-Dog: When, not if, a large percentage of Ukrainians freeze to death
What? It was warm and balmy in Ukraine back in February, 24, when s* hit the fan and the Russians crossed over? They started this in the cold, the Ukrainians have also been preparing for this eventuality since 2014. They’ve been stockpiling on cold weather gear, and they’ve been issuing such to their troops. The Russians, on the other hand, are not as prepared for the cold weather as the Ukrainians are.
Part II
Roh-Dog: because of this ‘I need to be right-ism’ [Self- Projection]
Your argument is not based on fact, reason, and logic, and contradicts what I’ve been reading/viewing this year regarding the war in Ukraine. I’ve been following that conflict in detail. Your arguments show that you have not done so. This isn’t a case of “I need to be right”. This is a case of proving you, and your erroneous assumptions of you “being right” as erroneous.
Roh-Dog: who will apologize to those families?
The Ukrainians are going through a lot of inconveniences, knowing full well that they will prevail. You don’t speak for them.
“You don’t speak for them.” Right, but they can speak for themselves, and fight for themselves, not to the cost of my country’s readiness.
This war is retarded.
You asked who would apologize to the families, in reference to Ukraine. I responded that you do not speak for them, as their perspectives and experiences are different from yours.
Got it, let the Russians take Ukraine in, causing Putin to be emboldened as a result. One of the Russian’s intent of taking Ukraine was to change the world order. Ukraine was just the start. I followed this war just like I followed the one they had in Afghanistan. I see similar trends between these two wars. One outcome for this war is for a massive change to take place with the RF, up to the possibility that they disintegrate.
Russia never stopped being a threat to us, and had been working to displace the United States from the “driver seat”. They’re going to have a harder time doing that now.
I will gladly argue this point with you until I’m an old man on his death bed.
Part III
Roh-Dog: I’m 100% done with this ‘war’ and the Deathmongering.
The Russians aren’t, and neither are the Chinese, who see themselves at war with the US. Both want to displace the United States from its position in the world, and both want to set up a new world order that has them as calling the shots. Not the US, not the West. The Russians, Chinese, and Radical Islamists want us to be tired of war, as the sooner we get tired of war, the sooner they could accomplish their objectives.
Roh-Dog: You can take your empirical research and spin.
What I’m doing is presenting the results of what I’ve read/watched/analyzed here. I got blocked on Twitter by a finance “guru” who claimed that Russia was winning. My argument was that the Russians were inept, and that ineptness was going to cost them the war in the long run. Who was right? Well, he has stopped harping about how the Russians will win.
Which ‘guru’?
I’m not doxing him here, as I only know him by his real world name.
Based on the apparent psychological profile that you’ve exposed to me in our arguments, I will not trust that name to you.
Wow.
I’m keeping it real with you and you pull that shit.
Real classy.
I don’t know who you are, or what you’ve done in your life, but Vet to “Vet” (I presume) honestly that’s some flagrant shit.
Was keeping it civil. Now you’ve earned a Cup o’ GO FUCK YOURSELF
If you were keeping it real with me, you would not have accused me of the “need to be rightism”. You would not have, in any way, shape, or form, dismissed the fact based, reasoned, logical argument that I’m presenting, nor would you have attempted to denigrate where I get my information from. You’re kidding yourself with your claims of keeping this civil. You’re not being civil.
The fact you did take those actions indicates that you have anger issues, control issues, and ego issues. You failed to show class to me in this exchange, I returned the favor. There’s no presumption of my veteran status as I am a veteran. Maybe I should screencap your post, and show it to my medical team at the VA CBOC?
And speaking of “being played”, I’ve used my knowledge of your apparent psychological profile, as well as that of others, to drive the post count on this thread up.
Good job.
Maybe you should screen cap this post, print it out on 40 grit and shove it up your fucking ass, condescending fuck.
I don’t know what your aim is here, pal, but I really hope you all the best.
Roh-Dog: Good Job. Maybe you should screen cap this post, print it out on 40 grit and shove it up your fucking ass,
Good… Good! Let the anger flow through you! You hinted that I may not be a veteran, so I suggested that I do a screencap of your post to show it to my medical team at the VA… Something I would not have done if I were not a veteran.
Roh-Dog: condescending fuck. [SELF PROJECTION]
Nothing condescending about anything I said or did. However, you were condescending towards me in your responses. I see that you do not approve of the way you treat others.
Roh-Dog: I don’t know what your aim is here, pal, but I really hope you all the best.
My aim is to have fun. I don’t argue to change people’s minds, and I come out of these debates with the same argument I had going into them. I argue for the sake of indefinite disagreement.
You, “[your] medical team” and your “indefinite disagreement” can fuck off, keep fucking off until you’ve reached the edge of the fuckiverse and absolutely, totally-not-theoretically-indefinitely FUCK OFF.
No one said ‘your need to be right’ and now you won’t/can’t let it go, saying I’ve got a projection problem…?
Fuckface, heal thyself
BANG! GOT ONE! I’m laughing my ass off at your response! This has nothing to do with “the need to be right”, and everything to do with denying you the ability to regain control in an area you know you’ve lost control in.
Your response is an indication that you have anger issues, control issues, and ego issues. The fact that I keep pushing back is driving you up the wall. Just admit it, you wish that you could teleport to my home and break every bone in my body, don’t you? 😀
As for your demands that I “heal myself”, what is it about the splinter in the other person’s eye when you have the beam in yours?
People must enjoy the waves at the waves at the beach when they bring their ears close to your ears. 😀
With your help, we could bring this thread up to 200 + posts… Time to keep pulling on your strings… 😀
“Your response is an indication that you have anger issues, control issues, and ego issues. The fact that I keep pushing back is driving you up the wall. Just admit it, you wish that you could teleport to my home and break every bone in my body, don’t you?”
The Infuntreeman in me is conflicted over this, but the rational part of me is actually sad for you.
I pity you.
Roh-Dog: The Infuntreeman in me is conflicted over this,
No “conflicted” on your end. The nature of your responses indicated that your blood was boiling. The issues that I’ve mentioned above, that you’ve demonstrated, show a level of anger that would reach the point of wanting to commit physical assault. It was like what was said of one of the phonies outed here, that he screamed at the computer. He demonstrated similar things that I’m seeing with you.
Roh-Dog: but the rational part of me is actually sad for you. I pity you.
You would ignore me, instead of continuing to comment here, if you pitied me.
Look hoss, you’ve been asked to stop, no?
Yet, here you are pissing into the wind.
You don’t get to tell me how I feel, what I’d do to you, or how to address you, or WHEN to address you.
And yeah, I can pity you all I’d like, regardless of how you ‘think’ I should act.
I am a free agent.
Response to Roh-Dog, November 20, 2022, Part 1B
Roh-Dog: Look hoss, you’ve been asked to stop, no?
And you’ve been advised that I will keep responding to you as long as you respond to me. Again, what I said before:
“Let “X” be the opposition’s responses, let “Y” be my counter responses. What is happening is this, if X, then Y. You’re complaining about “Y”, what you don’t have control over, but you do nothing about “X”, what you do have control over. Remove “X”, and the “Y” does not happen. It’s THAT simple.” – thebesig
Roh-Dog: Yet, here you are pissing into the wind.
If I were just “pissing into the wind”, you would not have responded to me.
Roh-Dog: You don’t get to tell me how I feel, what I’d do to you,
I’m going by the nature and tone of your responses. Your behavior, in response to me, follows a predictable pattern, one that I would expect a person, with certain emotions flowing through their veins, to carry out.
Shove your X
Roh-Dog: Shove your X
“X” represents your response. What you’re telling me to do with “X,” is what you should be doing.
Response to Roh-Dog, November 20, 2022, Part 2B
Roh-Dog: or how to address you, or WHEN to address you.
If you’re going to insist that I “stop”, then I will tell you what you need to do to make that happen. You can’t control what I do. However, you can control what you do. Want me to stop? Then stop responding to me. It’s THAT simple, this isn’t rocket science. If you can’t resist the urge to respond to me, then don’t tell me to stop, as I have no intention of doing that.
Again, I am willing to keep responding to you until I’m an ancient old man on his death bed. Let that sink in.
Response to Roh-Dog, November 20, 2022, Part 3B
Roh-Dog: And yeah, I can pity you all I’d like, regardless of how you ‘think’ I should act.
I go by actions, rather than words. You could claim that you have pity for someone all you want. However, if you do not demonstrate an act associated with pity, then you can’t say that you have pity. So far, your actions show that you do not have pity for me.
Roh-Dog: I am a free agent.
So am I. Don’t tell me to stop responding to you when I have every intention of responding to you.
Part II
Roh-Dog: but your lying to yourself
WRONG! I’m not lying to myself when I call things based on the trend of the facts occurring on the ground in Ukraine.
Roh-Dog: and have a dribble of koolaid on your chin
Don’t mistake the view that you have, from inside your rectum, as anybody having koolaid. Pull your head out of your ass and you’ll see.
Roh-Dog: if you think this doesn’t end poorly for the country and the people of Urkiane.
How could the Russians preparing for a long-term retreat be something that is going to “end poorly” for Ukraine? The tide has changed, the Ukrainians have the momentum, and the Russians are struggling to hold ground in the eastern front while losing ground in other areas. The Ukrainians are already talking about taking Crimea back.
“I’m not lying to myself when I call things based on the trend of the facts occurring on the ground in Ukraine.”
If I’m looking at this map correctly Russia doesn’t have any troops inside of Ukraine, just the former-Ukrainian Oblasts.
Possession is 9/tenths and all that.
Zoom in. They have Russian units designated as “pigs” and as other symbols. You could click other features on to see both wildfires and possible indirect fire areas.
The Russian occupied areas are peach/pink/orange. The areas they used to occupied are in green and blue. The blue represents territory that the Ukrainians regained from the Russians.
The map clearly shows that the Russians lost ground, and continue to do so. Remember, the Russian’s original intent was to take all of Ukraine in a matter of days.
“Remember, the Russian’s original intent was to take all of Ukraine in a matter of days.”
It was?! I mussta missed that in the CONOP and then again at the ramp brief.
I got that from Russian media sources when this all started. There was even a sense, on the western side, that Ukraine was going to fall in days.
Part III
Roh-Dog: Oh, here’s a rebuttal to the tactical prowess of the home guard. Enjoy.
A single video does not capture the entire tide of the war. He listed bad intelligence, something that has plagued other nations fighting wars. I stand by the trend of facts that I’ve seen, video, images, communication intercepts, etc.
Here is a better analysis done by Infographics Show from months ago. Unlike you and the others that I’m arguing against, these creators are center mass on their assessment:
Yeah, very unbiased, from the rip.
How much decapitation has RF done?
I have a feeling you, and the world, are being played.
Again, I go by the trend of facts that I see from multiple sources.
The trend, in the facts, indicate that the Russians are not doing what you think they’re doing, and the war in Ukraine is not going the way you guys think it is going. The Russians have lost a lot of hardware and manpower in this war, and that has impacted their long term and short-term capabilities.
The bias, that I’m seeing, is coming from you and from the others that I’ve argued against here.
UK intelligence is arguing that the Russians are planning a series of retreats:
https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-troops-new-defensive-positions-planning-more-retreats-uk-intelligence-2022-11
Again, I’m not bias except for 2 points:
A)Fuck both sides.
2)Fuck this war.
BI? What’s next, NYT? How about Guardian?
Look, no one is saying RF hasn’t gotten some lumps, they earned those mother fuckers, but as this goes less armor and more AW, especially in the annexed regions…
This area will be boiling (even more so) for years to come, assassinations, terrorist attacks, etc.
Which could be the goal, quite frankly. To make wester occupation bloodier than its worth.
You are clearly biased against the Ukrainians, and anything related to this war. This bias has clouded you from the totality of what is going on in that country, and it has clouded you to the history and current event trends that I’ve seen occur and play out.
Yes, BI, if the NYT and the Guardian provide valid information supported by other information, I will link to them as well. The Russian losses, in both equipment and manpower, has been catastrophic. They have to rely on less advanced models while the Ukrainians are getting relatively more modern “toys” than what the Russians have. The maps that I’m looking at, one of them has symbology that we use, indicate that the BI on Russian retreat is reality.
Now you’re pulling straws with your projections about Ukraine, or the occupied territories, “boiling over”. Based on current trends alone, we could see the Russians hold less and less territory, potentially even losing Crimea.
I don’t care, Mister Doctoral Thesis, about UKR, RF, or anything else you have to say.
I’ve said my piece.
We’ve lost a lot of resources. Them a lot of men.
This war, like any other, isn’t about numbers, and I’m afraid that this concoction has gotten the whole hep world over its skis just to prove a point.
If you’d ever been to war you’d have an instinct to deprive a new batch of idiots from doing the same.
It’s a fucking shame that you don’t…
Part I
You don’t care about any argument that destroys the soup sandwich that you call your own argument. You’ve said your piece, I’ve provided my counter rebuttal. The Russians put the Ukrainians in position to where both sides are losing a lot of men, and to where we are depleting our stockpiles.
Contrary to what you think about this war, understand that the Russians and Chinese cast a vote in what we do. The Russians intended for this to be a days long event after which the world order would change favoring the Russians. Listen to them when they speak, especially about “the need to share Ukraine/Europe”. The Russians have always been a threat. This war, started by the Russians, is our opportunity to help reduce them as a threat to us.
Part II
I’ve been to war. I’ve also followed history for over 4 decades, and current events since the summer of 1982. I’ve made accurate projections during that time. What is a shame is that you, someone who is assumably older than me, lacks the wisdom to see these trends and to make projections, like others older than me have done.
WRONG! This argument is consistent with other arguments that I’ve made in that it is very applicable to the comment that I’m addressing.
The only people that would consider this “insulting” are those with anger issues, ego issues, and anger issues. If anything, your arguments on this thread are not your best effort.
aGrim and timactual,
Enjoying watching this.
I’ve called out thebesig’s lousy sources before.
Some here know those sources by name now.
Gateway Pundit anyone?
When I do,
thebesig resorts to claims he “hammers” me
with his Part I Part II wind.
Then the lies and name calling
(I spread propaganda?).
Then memes, like below.
His next resort,
is to put his factual dissenters in VG comment jail.
It might happen to me again,
just for this 1 comment.
You two are the latest in a LONG line
to call out thebesig.
Some come back for more.
Most split.
I’ve emailed VG staff,
about how this kills credibility
of a “Stolen Valor” website,
especially when fam and friends
of newly outed phonies see all this.
But alas,
thebesig is still here,
with publishing power,
and VG jail censor power.
Soon, he’ll claim he hammered me again.
False.
He’ll VG jail me and silence me 1st.
Then gloat.
See his net blogs??
That’s thebesig.
Good luck here. :
“Gateway Pundit” hahahaha! I love/hate you, bro!
At least he hasn’t semi-threatened to dox you to medical authorities.
Let’s see how long it takes,
where I can’t reply anymore.
Ugh, that nut.
He sure is… passionate.
I’ll miss your deep dives into Book of the Fake and railing against
Mastodon,Mali tango, Mastriano.Roh Dog,
Watch for the green and red
thumbs up and down.
By tomorrow,
they just might
magically reverse themselves.
And everything thebesig
becomes green +.
Instead of red -2 and -3
that I saw elsewhere.
Those are fun screenshots to save, too.
I don’t wanna dog pile or molest that man(?).
Generally I come here to have frank discussions on the Vets’ perspective of the world and it’s ills.
It’s a good place to unwind (in a way) as we can fight amongst ourselves but still carry on a modicum of respect for each other (The Brother/Sisterhood, and all that).
Sometimes one of us gets out of line and says dumb stuff, theres often an apology or a mutual understanding…
Sorry if I’ve ever pissed you off too bad, MD61, anyone else.
—–
Fuck this, I’m grabbing a drink.
Roh-Dog: I don’t wanna dog pile or molest that man(?).
WISDOM! Too bad it was just a glitch. In the 19 years I’ve argued against people online, I’ve rarely came across this kind of reasoning from others.
When I started doing this, I went up against multiple people… Me against 15-30+ people depending on thread. The more people that “pile onto me”, the more I stand my ground and hammer back. People don’t realize that I take pleasure in hammering their arguments, the more arguments/opposition I dismantle, the more fun it is. I will keep hammering them until they stop giving me material to hammer them with.
Some learned people would call that obsessive-compulsive somethingorother.
Get a hobby that ain’t this.
Roh-Dog: Some learned people would call that obsessive-compulsive somethingorother. [SELF PROJECTION]
It takes two people to continue a debate. Again, you’ve seen me argue on this website before, thus you should know that I will consistently balance your rebuttals with my counter rebuttals.
Again, let “X” be your response, and “Y” by my response. What is happening is this, if X, then Y. Want “Y” to stop? Quit providing the X. It’s THAT simple. If you keep responding to me, don’t complain when I give you the guaranteed response.
Roh-Dog: Get a hobby that ain’t this.
This isn’t my only hobby. However, when someone like you can’t figure out that his response gets my counter response, I’m going to gladly keep giving him my counter response. Want me to stop? Stop responding and I will have nothing to respond to. It’s that simple.
oh, piecewise function! I remember this!!!!
If ‘None of the people that I know of, who are successful in life, got into arguments against me. None. Let that sink in.” is congruent to the function GO FUCK YOURSELF then the value of me caring asymptotes to blow me.
Roh-Dog: oh, piecewise function! I remember this!!!! is congruent to the function GO FUCK YOURSELF then the value of me caring asymptotes to blow me
That’s incorrect. The fact that the people that I know who are successful in life don’t argue with me, is relevant to the apparent psychological profiles that I see in the people that are more than likely going to argue against me. The decision to argue with me is always a poor judgment call. This is a point that you keep missing. Those that argue with me on Facebook are either failures in life, near failures in life, or have “ho hum” accomplishments.
The connection between the decision to argue with me, and their falling under one of those three categories? Poor judgement calls driven by anger issues, control issues, and ego issues.
MarineDad61: Roh Dog, Watch for the green and red thumbs up and down. By tomorrow,
they just might magically reverse themselves. And everything thebesig becomes green +. Instead of red -2 and -3 that I saw elsewhere. Those are fun screenshots to save, too.
The only time I’ve seen this happen is when I’m arguing against you, or, in this case, you jump in and support the opposition. How, pray tell, did I go from not receiving votes, to being the only one with multiple down votes, while you and another, who normally get negative downvotes get multiple upvotes? This is based on an observation I made on another thread.
You’re playing games with these upvotes, just as you’ve attempted to circumvent mod jail via the same trick you used to assign multiple downvotes and upvotes.
Now this I will report to the others.
Always a victim, eh?
When did dad leave?
How many nights a week did you burn yourself on the stove, cooking mac-n-cheese, while mom ‘danced’ for strangers?
What I stated above is observable, nothing to do with victimhood. Who usually gets the downvotes on this site? When those who normally get downvoted get upvoted, and I get downvoted, and it happens to be in an area that MD61 is involved with, we’re talking reality.
Pull your head out of MarineDad61’s ass before he breaks your neck with his sharp terns. Got it, you like to make out with him as he also has his head shoved up there but having your head up his ass is impacting your argument.
Roh-Dog,
Here’s a -2 AND -3 to watch.
These were quick, too.
15 minutes.
Does thebesig learn?
Even more importantly,
does the VG staff learn?
I admire your dedication, MD61.
Can’t seem to care about inane fuckery with ‘internet cool guy points’.
You wanna fight that fight I salute you and will keep the home fires burning.
MarineDad61: Roh-Dog, Here’s a -2 AND -3 to watch. These were quick, too. 15 minutes.
A person normally does not get them that fast unless it’s you and a few others. Those are suspect.
MarineDad61: Does thebesig learn?
You’re joking, right? I go by my own rules when arguing against you, not by yours. The real question that you should be asking is this, “Does MarineDad61 ever learn?” You can’t control what I do on my end, but you can control what you do on your end. I’ve gotten more downvotes than commissar elsewhere, that does not stop me.
MarineDad61: Even more importantly, does the VG staff learn?
Let “X” be the opposition’s responses, let “Y” be my counter responses. What is happening is this, if X, then Y. You’re complaining about “Y”, what you don’t have control over, but you do nothing about “X”, what you do have control over. Remove “X”, and the “Y” does not happen. It’s THAT simple.
Roh-Dog: He sure is… passionate.
Continuing to hammer the opposition until they stop responding is a passion of mine… Especially when I could leverage their apparent psychological profiles to get them to say and react a certain way.
Right. You were right then, you’re right now, and you’ll always be right.
See above.
Roh-Dog: Right. You were right then, you’re right now, and you’ll always be right.
Again, I don’t engage in debate unless I have extensive knowledge on the topic compared to the opposition provably not having a command of the topic being argued.
Roh-Dog: See above.
See my response above. If I have not responded, I will provide a response. A response from me is almost as guaranteed as death and taxes.
MarineDad61: Let’s see how long it takes, where I can’t reply anymore. Ugh, that nut.
Again, you got thrown into mod jail for being an a* in general. It was your general attitude on the thread that got you thrown there. Your attitude towards me was just one of the issues against you.
Roh-Dog,
Congrats.
You’re the 3rd here
(4th overall recently)
to get the Part I Part II here’s my quals treatment from thebesig.
Of course, because
he believes he’s never wrong.
And, he believes his favorite sources are never wrong.
Save your screenshots.
Good luck.
Part I
MarineDad61: Roh-Dog, Congrats. You’re the 3rd here (4th overall recently) to get the Part I Part II here’s my quals treatment from thebesig.
The more in error a person is, the longer the response. I will drop my credentials in an argument when the opposition dismisses my arguments as anything other but a fact based, reasoned, logical argument in the face of their failure to advance any relevant arguments in response.
MarineDad61: Of course, because he believes he’s never wrong.
Again, I don’t get into an argument unless two things are simultaneously met: I have extensive knowledge on the topic compared to those that I’m arguing against, and those that I’m arguing against have little to no knowledge of the topic being argued as demonstrated in their responses. There is a clear disconnect between reality and their argument, and they’re provably wrong.
Part II
MarineDad61: And, he believes his favorite sources are never wrong.
Wrong. If a reference covers material that actually happened, I’ll use it. You failed to prove the content of those articles “wrong”. Strawman arguments don’t count.
MarineDad61: Save your screenshots. Good luck.
Why edit errant posts when they could be deleted instead?
Roh-Dog: Gateway Pundit” hahahaha! I love/hate you, bro!
Both you guys denigrate the source, but failed to argue against the content that I was drawing from in those sources.
Roh-Dog: At least he hasn’t semi-threatened to dox you to medical authorities.
You asked for the name of the person that had blocked me on Twitter. I told you that I would not dox that person to you, as I only knew this person by their real world name. How, pray tell, is that “semi-threatening” to dox you to medical authorities?
GO READ IT AGAIN
Roh-Dog: GO READ IT AGAIN
Wrong, I don’t need to read anything again… Unless it’s the Bible.
You need to pay attention to what you are reading before you respond, before telling others to read something again.
Don’t confuse your brilliance with my inability to utterly not give a fuck.
If you can’t see how what you had typed, in the order you typed it, could be a veiled threat… yep. My ‘reading comprehension’.
I guess it wasn’t intentional.
Loose cannons be loose…
Roh-Dog: Don’t confuse your brilliance with my inability to utterly not give a fuck.
If you didn’t give a fuck, you would not be responding to me. If your IQ was not in the negatives, you’d understand that.
Roh-Dog: If you can’t see how what you had typed, in the order you typed it, could be a veiled threat… yep. My ‘reading comprehension’.
Yes, you have a reading comprehension problem. I told you that I was not going to dox someone from Twitter, using his real name. That is not a vailed threat to you.
Roh-Dog: I guess it wasn’t intentional.
It’s a reading comprehension problem on your end.
Roh-Dog: Loose cannons be loose…
More like your disengaging your mouth without first engaging your brain.
Still utterly, deeply, instinctively, don’t give a fuck.
Roh-Dog: Still utterly, deeply, instinctively, don’t give a fuck.
If this were the case, you would have stopped responding to me a long time ago.
Perhaps, or maybe I am WAAAYYYY more resilient than you.
I like wet boots.
Roh-Dog: Perhaps, or maybe I am WAAAYYYY more resilient than you.
Nope, not resilient, but demonstrating the very behavior traits that I’ve identified above. If you’re talking about resilience regarding remaining in debate, I’ve been doing this for 19 years. Our argument on this thread is not even a drop in the bucket in comparison. I have every intention of responding to you until I’m an old man on his death bed.
Roh-Dog: I like wet boots.
Folks who don’t mind slipping, sliding, and falling seem to gain a liking for wet boots.
Part 1
MarineDad61: aGrim and timactual, Enjoying watching this.
You’re not enjoying anything. You just like the fact that others are as foolish as you are when it comes to arguing a topic that you guys have little to no command of the topic in.
I, on the other hand, enjoy doing this. Every one of you guys have exposed your apparent psychological profiles in your arguments against me, and I’ve leveraged that to my advantage.
MarineDad61: I’ve called out thebesig’s lousy sources before. Some here know those sources by name now. Gateway Pundit anyone?
Called out? No. Bitch, whine, moan and groan? Yes. You whined about your issues about some of the sources that I use, but you’ve consistently failed to prove wrong the content that those sources talk about.
Part 2
MarineDad61: When I do, thebesig resorts to claims he “hammers” me with his Part I Part II wind. Then the lies and name calling (I spread propaganda?).
Those are not claims, but statements of fact. I’ve consistently destroyed your arguments. Your so called “factual dissenting” amounted to red herrings and strawmen at best, completely erroneous arguments at worst.
My describing you, based on what your apparent psychological profile is showing me, is not my “calling names” and is not me “lying”. It’s my telling it like it is about you. You, having “see through skin”, can’t handle that, dismissing a blistering fact check scrutiny of your drivel as “lies and name calling”. Yes, your argument amounts to nothing but propaganda, based on your emotion but not having that much support from reality/facts.
Part 3
MarineDad61: Then memes, like below.
This gets under your skin, doesn’t it? This is one of the many things that you said in this post that amounted to your making my day. In Psychological Operations, we call this an example of an “impact indicator”.
Have you stopped and wondered why I used the head up a* meme against you? I know it gets under your skin, and causes you to go on here and make posts that make me laugh. You don’t even realize how I’m using your attitude to use the right words, sentences, paragraphs, memes, etc., to get you to react a certain way. It’s working wonderfully in your case.
Dude, you really ain’t that clever.
As much as you think we’re here to ‘harm’ or ‘frustrate’ you and assail your impervious ‘logic and reason’… at least we haven’t skipped our meds, psycho.
Part I
Roh-Dog: Dude, you really ain’t that clever.
If this were the case, you, MarineDad61, and others would have ignored me a while back. Every word, sentence, paragraph, image, etc., that I use is aimed to get the opposition to react a certain way. You, MarineDad61, and the others that I’ve rebutted on this thread have reacted exactly as I expected you guys to react.
Roh-Dog: As much as you think we’re here to ‘harm’ or ‘frustrate’ you and assail your impervious ‘logic and reason’…
Correction, I’ve identified you guys, accurately, as having anger issues, ego issues, and control issues. It is from these three issues that you guys respond to me, and force hot air and brown stuff out of your face buttholes about what I say, and about me. It’s like you guys are puppets on strings, and I’m pulling the strings.
oh, ok…. at least my dick works.
less sometimes is more. truncate dood.
So does mine. Just ask the Millennial woman I’m intimate with (I’m 52).
As for “less is sometimes more”, not in these arguments. No, I will not truncate.
When it comes to these arguments, I don’t accommodate people foolish enough to argue with me. I will respond in any length I deem necessary.
thechugonballs: “I will respond in any length I deem necessary.”
Oh, we have agreement on this fact.
Roh-Dog: Oh, we have agreement on this fact.
After you insisted that I “truncate”, this is an indication that you’re just pulling shit out of your ass, and that you don’t even have a command over what you intend with regards to your argument.
That wasn’t an argument, I was insulting you.
Do you see the difference?
Roh-Dog,
Of course he doesn’t.
MarineDad61: Roh-Dog, Of course he doesn’t.
Wrong. I’ve pointed out, in numerous debates, that the opposition had run out of argument and resulted to flaming. The side that does this is normally the side that lost the argument, but is still trying to remain in the argument in hopes of regaining control in a situation that they’ve lost control in.
Roh-Dog: That wasn’t an argument, I was insulting you. Do you see the difference?
The fact that we’re still in disagreement indicates that we are in an argument. You’re the one that is not seeing the difference. You ran out of the arguments you were originally advancing and resorted to flaming. This is a common tactic used by those who lost the argument, but who refuse to bow out of the argument, even if they could do it silently and unnoticed by others.
See your other article dated 20NOV.
Roh-Dog: See your other article dated 20NOV.
Not until the arguments on this thread are concluded. That happens when the opposition stops responding to me.
Part II
Roh-Dog: at least we haven’t skipped our meds, psycho.
This is one of the typical responses I get from people with anger issues, control issues, and ego issues, who can’t get their way in an argument. Like MarineDad61, you have issues with the pushback you’re getting from me. So, what do you do? Explain it away by pulling the “psycho” card.
you started it
and won’t stop
ever
regardless.
But we/us/I are/am guilty of ‘projection’?
riiiight.
Wrong. I responded to something you said in support of the opposition.
You, having seen me argue before, having seen me argue on this thread, should have known that I have absolutely no intention of stopping. I will keep hammering you for as long as you keep responding. Dito with the others that I argue against.
Yes, you’re engaging in projection.
Part 4
MarineDad61: His next resort, is to put his factual dissenters in VG comment jail.
“Factual dissenter?” ROTFLMFAO! But again, you have demonstrated excessive ego issues, anger issues, and control issues. You’re intoxicated with a massive delusion of grandeur.
NEWSFLASH! You were thrown in VG comment jail for being an a* on the other thread. Even if I did not jump on that thread and argued with you, your attitude towards the other posters was what resulted in your being thrown in VG comment jail.
MarineDad61: It might happen to me again, just for this 1 comment.
You do realize that there was discussion about having you banned, do you? Guess what prevented you from being banned?
My proposal that they throw you into moderator jail instead. The other part of the proposal was for my being the one that approved your posts.
Your ego is such that you don’t see how you have created “toxicity” and thus have become a thorn on the side of others.
Part 5
MarineDad61: You two are the latest in a LONG line to call out thebesig. Some come back for more. Most split.
“Call out”? WRONG! Foolishly argue against me? Yes. In addition to the those arguing against me having anger issues, control issues, and ego issues, they fall into three main categories. The more they argue with me, the more these traits are present in them.
They are either failures in life, near failures in life, or have “ho hum” accomplishments in life. This is based on people that I’ve argued against on Facebook, who show a very similar apparent psychological profile as you guys do.
“They are either failures in life, near failures in life, or have “ho hum” accomplishments in life. This is based on people that I’ve argued against on Facebook, who show a very similar apparent psychological profile as you guys do.”
OR, hear me out for a tick, if everyone else is the problem, you might be the problem…?
Just a hypothesis.
Your hypothesis is FALSE. That was a quick research!
Where, in that post, did I say that “everybody else” was the problem? I only mentioned the people that were foolish enough to argue with me. Not everybody. Reading Comprehension, it’s a drug.
What I stated above is factual. You quoted the section where I saw this on Facebook, where I was able to also search out their linkedin.
None of the people that I know of, who are successful in life, got into arguments against me. None. Let that sink in.
I’m not the problem, you can’t get over the fact that I continue to keep hammering you with no intention of letting up.
thebonergag:
“None of the people that I know of, who are successful in life, got into arguments against me. None. Let that sink in.”
Allow me to retort: “Reading Comprehension, it’s a drug.”
thebonergag: “I’m not the problem, you can’t get over the fact that I continue to keep hammering you with no intention of letting up.”
Hey, fuckhead! I don’t care about how much grandiosity you are currently suffering from I just hope that you and your ‘medical team’ have a plan for your safety.
Are they in the same room as you know? You can blink or nod if too afraid to speak.
Yes, reading comprehension, and you’re the one that is not reading that properly. Since I overestimated your intelligence, let me simplify this.
Why is it that people are successful in life? Because they make wise decisions in life maybe? For example, none of the successful people I know of waste their time in endeavors they would not succeed in… Like arguing against me. Now, the balance to this statement… the fact that those that argue with me are usually failures in life, near failures in life, or have ho hum accomplishments.
You should’ve seen this from a proverb standpoint, the foolish argue with me, the wise don’t. Which one of these succeed in life, and which one doesn’t? This in no way, shape, or form, constitutes a “threat”.
Go through the wisdom books in the Bible, the sayings about fools nicely describe you and your actions here.
Let’s face it, you’re losing control over yourself.
Dude.
“Why is it that people are successful in life? Because they make wise decisions in life maybe? For example, none of the successful people I know of waste their time in endeavors they would not succeed in… Like arguing against me.”
This statement…
You keep calling me stupid, which I can grant you as a Member of the 11B Fraternity, but you ain’t seeing it.
It is possible that you 1) don’t know any successful people and/or B) all the so-called ‘successful’ people you know are just like you, which given what’s happened here, is an indictment of late-stage capitalism (h/t Lars! Mother forgive me!!)
Response to Roh-Dog, November 20, 2022, Part 1A
Roh-Dog: This statement… You keep calling me stupid, which I can grant you as a Member of the 11B Fraternity, but you ain’t seeing it.
The problem is that you’re not seeing it. Saying that successful people make wise decisions in life is not calling you stupid. Foolish? Yes. Stupid? No. The folks that fall under the failure, near failure, or ho hum categories are generally foolish.
The fact that you continue to take issue with that statement, about successful people utilizing wise decisions, indicates that you may be a part of one of those three categories that I mentioned.
There’s a third option to consider.
Poop.
(was looking for the emoji and gave up. because i’m not successful and a big stinky loser)
Roh-Dog: There’s a third option to consider.
In your situation no. I made it clear that I’m not calling you “stupid”, as you accused me of doing. However, I’m identifying your judgment calls, to continue to argue with me, as foolish.
Roh-Dog: Poop.
An excellent summary describing the arguments you’ve advanced on this thread.
Roh-Dog: (was looking for the emoji and gave up. because i’m not successful and a big stinky loser)
The chances of your successfully finding the emoji, or an image to attach, were far greater than the chances you have of outlasting me in this argument. Yet, you stopped doing what was accomplishable, while continuing to do what is not accomplishable.
Looking at the nature of your replies to this thread, it does not appear that your participation on this thread is healthy for you. Accept the fact that you can’t control what I say and do.
No one is arguing.
You’re just right, as always.
Everyone is tired of this, and yet YOU KEEP GOING.
Roh-Dog: No one is arguing.
Our disagreement on this concept indicates that an argument is in progress.
Roh-Dog: You’re just right, as always.
Again, my strategy involves arguing topics that I’ve done extensive study on, or have firsthand experience on, as opposed to the opposition’s demonstrating weak to no knowledge on the topic.
When one side has studied or experienced knowledge on the topic, and the other side has little to none, then guess which side will be right and which side would be wrong?
Roh-Dog: Everyone is tired of this, and yet YOU KEEP GOING.
Then stop responding. Without your responses to me, I would not have something to work with to generate a rebuttal.
thebuttsag: Then stop responding. Without your responses to me, I would not have something to work with to generate a rebuttal.
Ok, my retort.
What is the sound of one person REALLY not giving a fuck and if you fucked off in the woods, would anyfuckingone miss you?
Roh-Dog: Ok, my retort.
Stand by for the counter rebuttal.
Roh-Dog: What is the sound of one person REALLY not giving a fuck
The answer is the sight that I would see when I come back and find that everyone ignored me. You responded to me, so you gave a f*. So much for your plea to stop this because “other people are tired of this”.
Roh-Dog: and if you fucked off in the woods, would anyfuckingone miss you?
This thread is “the woods”, I have company still. For your scenario to apply, everybody here would have to ignore me, leaving me “standing alone”. Your words demand one thing, but your actions show the opposite.
beep bop boop
clown, bereft of reading skillz
Roh-Dog: beep bop boop
This is a good metaphor describing the fact that you’re in “self-destruct” mode on this thread.
Roh-Dog: clown, bereft of reading skillz
Not seeing things your way does not constitute “not” having reading skills. You apologized for the mudslinging, posted as you were going stop. I knew it was nothing but baloney on your part. You were willing to go along with the person you were responding to, under the assumption that things would remain the way you expected.
I jumped in, following my own intent, and balanced your responses with my counter responses. Your true self broke out, just as I expected
.:yawn:.
I’m going to chase ass and drink bourbon, in no particular order.
You, stay you.
Roh-Dog: .:yawn:.
If this were a “yawn” moment, you would not have responded.
Roh-Dog: I’m going to chase ass and drink bourbon, in no particular order.
Not surprised that you’re drinking bourbon, after waking up earlier the same day with a hangover. Your post on the Midweek Open Thread substantiated one of the suspicions I had of your apparent psychological profile… The cycle from “nice guy” to “mud slinger” is explained by actions that indicate sustained alcohol use.
Roh-Dog: You, stay you.
Yes, I’m seeing a young woman on a steady basis, I don’t have to keep chasing ass, nor do I have to drink alcoholic beverages.
“Da kvia vahmorun…”
LC: Da kvia vahmorun
Please speak the common conversational language of this website.
Response to Roh-Dog, November 20, 2022, Part 2A
Roh-Dog: It is possible that you 1) don’t know any successful people and/or B) all the so-called ‘successful’ people you know are just like you,
This is a false statement. I look at things like their Facebook and Linkedin profiles, the photos they post, their comments, their actions, etc. The folks who argue against me? They drop hints of their status in life by complaining about things like needing to work multiple jobs to make ends meet. A look at their profiles on Facebook hints that they’ve made bad decisions in life, and they continue to make bad decisions… One example? Failing to live within their means, and failing to do away with wasteful activities.
Continued in Part 3A
Sad how highly you hold yourself and ‘friends’.
I bet you fuck the maid and stick a $20 in her (his?) pocket when done, as a ‘tip’ while chuckling to yourself.
Roh-Dog: Sad how highly you hold yourself and ‘friends’.
Nothing I said could be used to infer this conclusion. People on Facebook check each other’s profiles out, they communicate and interact with each other. What I said above is relevant.
Roh-Dog: I bet you fuck the maid and stick a $20 in her (his?) pocket when done, as a ‘tip’ while chuckling to yourself.
I don’t have a maid. I may be 52, but I still have my strength and agility with me. As I mentioned earlier, I’m seeing a Millennial woman. However, your entire post had no relevance to what I said. Your post indicates the action of someone who has anger issues, control issues, and ego issues.
Response to Roh-Dog, November 20, 2022, Part 3A
Do they really need all the ‘bells and whistles’ that many people have if they can’t support such with their income? When many of these people drunk post and are even seen with a lot of photos with alcoholic beverages in hand, there’s a possibility that they have alcohol issues… Especially if hints of their drunk posting is occurring during the early part of the day.
They waste time arguing a losing argument, instead of using that time on improving some aspect of their life. Little by little, they could move towards having a better lot in their life, but they foolishly waste it away, then blame some other factor for their predicament.
Response to Roh-Dog, November 20, 2022, Part 4A
Roh-Dog: which given what’s happened here, is an indictment of late-stage capitalism (h/t Lars! Mother forgive me!!)
The apparent psychological undercurrent of this response shows that you have some form of animosity against those who are successful in life. This explains your continued mention of who I’ve identified as the successful versus non successful when it comes to those that I interact with. You’re not the only one that has done this. Others that I’ve argued against also have animosity against successful people, as well as against people perceived to have a lot of money. For example, many of these individuals insist that employers have more money and could afford to pay more than minimum wage, even paying a livable wage.
“Others that I’ve argued against also have animosity against successful people, as well as against people perceived to have a lot of money. “
I’m not sure what this means, but I’ll infer that you believe I have a problem with the rich?
Consider for a moment I often post articles from financial blogs and quote economists, maybe reevaluate.
But you won’t as you-must-be-right.
Roh-Dog: I’m not sure what this means, but I’ll infer that you believe I have a problem with the rich?
What you said:
“…which given what’s happened here, is an indictment of late-stage capitalism” – Roh-Dog
Have you read up on what late-stage capitalism is? One of the themes of this topic involves a negative attitude towards those with money. I’m simply going by what you say.
Roh-Dog: Consider for a moment I often post articles from financial blogs and quote economists, maybe reevaluate.
I’ve posted articles here about the weather, and about space exploration. Does that make me a scientist or an astronaut? YES [ ] NO [ ]
Copy and paste the question, the boxed yes/no options, to your reply and put an “X” in the box that represents your response. Spare me any additional response that you’d want to give.
Roh-Dog: But you won’t as you-must-be-right.
I won’t, because you advanced a strawman argument.
Part 6
MarineDad61: I’ve emailed VG staff, about how this kills credibility of a “Stolen Valor” website, especially when fam and friends of newly outed phonies see all this.
Correction, you framed the argument that way as you can’t handle push back like what you’re getting from me. Your crappy attitude on previous threads didn’t cause you to be concerned about the credibility of this website, nor did you care, in these other threads, how the family and friends of the newly outed phonies would see all this.
Nope, it only became a concern for you when you started to get you’re a* repeatedly cut off and shoved down your throat.
Part 7
MarineDad61: But alas, thebesig is still here, with publishing power, and VG jail censor power.
Because what you think is the case, given your ego powered emails, is not the case. There is a colossal difference between how the staff see things, and how you think things are. Remember, YOU were the one who was the topic of whether or not you should be banned. I interceded on your behalf and recommended that you be placed in mod jail instead.
MarineDad61: Soon, he’ll claim he hammered me again. False.
Not “false”, not a “claim”, but a statement of fact. I know, for a fact, that I’ve hammered you not just on this thread, but on the other threads.
Part 8
MarineDad61: He’ll VG jail me and silence me 1st. Then gloat.
As you could see, I’ve hammered you again, knowing how you’re going to react, just to sit back and watch you react as I expect you to react. I take sadistic pleasure in destroying arguments like yours, then seeing the reactions. It’s like being a kid waking up on Christmas morning.
MarineDad61: See his net blogs?? That’s thebesig.
Yet, despite seeing my “net blogs”, you foolishly rush into another situation to where you’d get a blistering fact check scrutiny. The wise/smart person would see how I do things elsewhere, see how things would play out with them, then decide not to do what you’re doing here. You have the added knowledge of our past interactions where I did, in fact, hammer you like what I’m doing now.
MarineDad61: Good luck here. :
It’s like sending someone in to fight with the lions but wishing them luck first.
“Most of the Ukrainian deaths are civilian deaths”
Source?
Do your research. When I come across a similar scenario, I don’t cop out and ask for a source, I look for the information myself. If you can’t do that, concede the point and move on.
Russia’s KIA numbers went up faster when they rushed many of their new conscripts to the frontline… Without real training.
On your point that it takes 6-10 personnel to support one front-line soldier… The Russians didn’t get that memo. They understaffed their logistics when compared to the number of their front line soldiers. This is one of the vulnerabilities that the Ukrainians have taken advantage of.
I saw a video where a Russian female soldier was telling newly mobilized people that they would need to ask their mothers, wives, or girlfriends to send them tampons so that they could cover their bleeding wounds. Mobilized civilians are also being told that they would need to purchase many of the gear that they need.
Not only have they understaffed their logistics compared to their soldiers, but corruption runs deep in the Russian military, supplies are stolen by the soldiers that are supposed to keep custody of these supplies. Manny of these stolen items wind up being sold for extra cash… One consequence when the commanders skim from pay funds.
The same has always happened when it comes to their supplies of fuel and Vehicle parts as well!
“I saw a video”
Ha!
Proof positve.
QED.
Can’t debate that logic.
You’ve run circles around me, logically.
My seeing a video is a statement of fact.
It was researchable, something I would have done had if the roles were reversed and someone said that they saw a video of a female Russian Soldier telling people to have tampons sent to them.
timactual: You’ve run circles around me, logically.
In your sarcasm, you presented reality. Yes, I’ve ran circles around you, logically, in every argument we’ve had.
“Excellent!” –Chicoms’ Taiwan invasion planners
Don’t doubt they’re paying attention.
I made mention of this when we FIRST (ht2, Oh, that would be moi) talked about sending expendable ordnance over there. You can have the finest weapons system EVAH, but if you don’t have the ‘splodey thingies that come out of them to go INTO them, then you are as harmless as a Heel Hound.
Per the write up, even if we sent NO MORE to them and had no expenditures of our own, look how many YEARS it would take to just replentish what we have sent.
Amateurs discuss tactics, Professionals study logistics. Beans and boolits win the wars.
Russia has the logistics advantage as the front is very close to them. They also have the manufacturing advantage as their economy is fairly self-sufficient. Additionally, they have been stockpiling armament for years. The Russians have been expending artillery shells at about 10k/day which requires a lot of logistics to get the shells to the artillery. As you say, beans and boolits.
I am by no means a military tactician, but it has been interesting to watch a Russian tactic that appears to be effective. They incrementally move forward to gain ground; they then set up a defensive line and move forward again. If they come up against an overwhelming Ukrainian counterattack, they calmly retreat to the defensive line until reinforcements can arrive. The tactic appears to have stopped every Ukranian counterattack and greatly lessened the Russian losses.
Solid evaluations of remaining Russian armor put it at less then 10% capable due to neglect and canabalization. A lot of this is based on imagery of equipment that hasn’t moved in a decade or longer.
Russia has no advantage on production while under sanctions. Meanwhile the Ukraine doesn’t have to make a thing and has hundreds of tons of munitions handed to it.
Their logistics rely too heavily on railroads, and old fashioned ‘trucking’. However, with the bombing of their logistics hubs, the Russians had to move their supply nodes further back, thus extending the range their trucks have to travel to do logistics. See weak logistics to line ratio. This makes them more vulnerable.
Yes, they’ve been stockpiling armament for years, but they’ve been in neglect and are outdated. As for the “incrementally moving forward bit”, there is a massive delay on that front. They’re trying to do this in the east, towards the center. The Ukrainians have been spanking their a*s and keeping them from moving forward. Meanwhile, they’re chipping away at areas the Russians were able to take earlier in the year.
Nope, their retreat is “not calm”, but disorganized under poor leadership and nearly “every man to himself”.
https://deepstatemap.live/en#6/47.776/33.915
Talking about how bad the Chinese military is. Remember, in 1940 all Japanese soldiers were short, had buck teeth and wore glasses. And that new Zero airplane would catch fire if you stared at it too long. The PLA is not as good as propagandized, nor as incompetent.
^^Sarge here gets it!
As I was taught: most fights end up on the ground.
Even if their night vision is generations behind it’ll put a huge damper on a modern western force ‘owning the night’. And if I am remembering correctly, we haven’t had to maneuver under indirect in some time.
It don’t have to be precise iffn you got enuf.
“Quantity is a quality.” “God is on the side with the strongest battalions.”
I avoided the Flame Wars above, didn’t have a dog in that fight. Did read them all tho, got me a chuckle out the slugging match. Point being, back to the original subject of the thread, we have GIVEN AWAY a substantial amount of our expendable ordnance and as is pointed out, it will take YEARS to restock. This does not bode well when we have an enemy that will continue to send in massive numbers of cannon fodder until the positions are literally overrun. It has happened before, it can happen again. Them Johnny Rebs were throwing rocks at the damyankys on several battlefields (think Marye’s Hts) and were only saved by a last minute infusion of cartridges. And the “boolits” we using now can’t be hand rolled by 8-12 yo girls in Richmond or Augusta.
Supplies evaporate rapidly. Lack of gas stopped Patton in his tracks…literally.
Everything you typed and then some, Brother Man.
There is a cost associated with production and the tolerances there of. As much as I love this land, and the knuckledraggers that inhabit her, my fear will always be our insistence on being right even to the detriment of; treasury, blood, bullet or cannon round.
America cannot fail without, she must fall within. And everyfkingbody knows this, man.
What can we possibly gain by picking a side in a civil war one quarter the world away?!
We haven’t had to defend US Territory but 3 times, twice against the Brits (wore them out in the fights more than defeated them), and once against the Japanese…and we did a piss poor job of defending Pearl Harbor, didn’t we?
Every war we have been involved in since 1812 has been more about becoming “…adventurous abroad…” in order to become “…despotic at home.” Bob Lee called it years ago. Our foreign enemies know that they could not invade us with an Army (a rifle behind every blade of grass) so they have used (read bought and paid for) some domestic enemies to destroy us from with in. Nikita called that one. And here we are.
I’m not too concerned about myself. I’ve had a good run and will Defend what I have. I did want my Grands to grow old in the same Country that I grew older in. Not.gonna.happen!
And I pray for it to resolve toward peace and reason, KoB.
But just in case, omnus para bellum.
You can always find gainful work on the North Wall, -Dog. And I could use some help depleting the Class VI Supplies @ Firebase Magnolia. WSB
sheeeeet. Don’t threaten me with a good time!
If you got yardage I’ll make use of it, after chores, tending and mending of course.
Got all of that AND high speed low drag inherwebz. You and that Trophy Wife of yourn gits tired of Commieslut taxes and freezing weather, I’ll send you the grid square. Just ’bout equal distance twixt Ben’s Skool for Wayward Boyz and Camp Swampy.
China is definitely loving this shit
‘it’s not a matter of if but when
Testing. Testing.
VG comment jail, or still free to type?
5×5
Roh-Dog (and 3 others).
I stand by every word here today.
It was a mistake for VG to allow thebesig
to use this website to spread his conspiracy theories,
and then play his little game of Flame Wars
every time someone (or somefour) call him out on it.
I rest my case.
Y’all enjoy your weekend.
Thanks for all your hard work, MD.
I get differences, we all have them!
You take ‘er easy and don’t let’m dangle in the dirt.
Roh-Dog,
Thanks.
Someone here needs to pay for more lessons.
Or go for the whole course.
[Argument Clinic – Monty Python]
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hwqn9
MarineDad61: Roh-Dog, Thanks. Someone here needs to pay for more lessons Or go for the wholse course.
Those that I’ve argued against, on this thread and elsewhere, need lessons on debating. Not a single one of you guys effectively argued your positions. You guys used strawmen arguments, drifted from your original arguments, used some form of fallacy, etc.
The Ukrainians will never take land on the lower Dnieper and some “52-year old” clown will never see his prick again without the aid of a mirror or camera.
Roh-Dog: The Ukrainians will never take land on the lower Dnieper
I’m going to screen capture this statement. It’s blatantly obvious that you have not done an extensive review of what is going on in Ukraine right now, let alone what has been going on there over the past few months.
Roh-Dog: and some “52-year old” clown will never see his prick again without the aid of a mirror or camera.
False. I could look down, see my prick, and not even need to do anything with my belly. I do distance runs during the pre-dawn hours, when the stars are still in the sky, 5 to 6 times a week… Over 6 miles per run.
At my age, you can’t have extra baggage on you when doing that kind of activity. That would just jack your body up more than it needs to be jacked up.
Argument Clinic skit portion on YouTube.
The entire Monty Python sketch,
including the other offices
and the comedy sketch police,
above at the dailymotion link.
Roh-Dog: Thanks for all your hard work, MD.
Guaranteed, if you and I were on the same side of the argument, you would be saying the same thing to me, or something similar… Instead of complaining about my refusing to quit.
Roh-Dog: I get differences, we all have them!
You would not have responded the way you responded to me on this thread if you understood that concept. Given the realities here, you would have bowed out a long time ago. The fact that I kept responding with a difference in viewpoint did not apparently sit well with you.
Roh-Dog: You take ‘er easy and don’t let’m dangle in the dirt.
Both of you guys should stay down on the ground, and not try to get back up to fight.
My ass. Eat it.
You have a pathological need to be right. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I THINK YOU ARE INCORRECT ABOUT UKRAINE AND ITS LIKELIHOOD OF SUCCESS.
I doubt if you were wrong you’d admit it.
Now, if there is something else you’d like to ACTUALLY discuss THAT DOESN’T involve insulting; me, MD, people who disagree with you, etc; I’m ears.
You’re entitled to an opinion.
Response to Roh-Dog, November 20, 2022, Part 1C
Roh-Dog: My ass. Eat it.
ROTFLMFAO! If only you could hear me laughing my arse off. 😀 My proverbial boot has been doing what you demand that I do, thank you very much. This is the second time I’ve noticed your use of a gay activity as a metaphor. Hey, if you’re into that, more power to you. That stuff is not for me though.
Roh-Dog: You have a pathological need to be right.
Not a pathological need to be right, we’re in situation where I am right and the opposition is wrong.
Response to Roh-Dog, November 20, 2022, Part 2C
Roh-Dog: I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again,
I said it before, and I’ll say it again. I do not argue with people unless two conditions are simultaneously met: that I have extensive knowledge on the topic gained from firsthand experience, from extensive study/research, or both; and that the opposition has little to no command of the topic they are trying to argue. Both conditions have been met here.
Ro-Dog: I THINK YOU ARE INCORRECT ABOUT UKRAINE AND ITS LIKELIHOOD OF SUCCESS.
Trends on the ground in Ukraine, especially since this summer, prove you wrong. Who should I believe? The folks in Ukraine updating their military maps (I track another one beside the one that I posted here), as well as their US/NATO counterparts, or you?
Response to Roh-Dog, November 20, 2022, Part 3C
Roh-Dog: I doubt if you were wrong you’d admit it.
Well, I thought that you, given your age, would have better controlled your emotions in this debate. When I saw the intensity of your reactions, I saw that my assumption of your ability to maintain discipline in a debate like this, given your age and experience, was proven wrong.
Also, if those that I’m arguing against are clearly wrong, or do not know what they are talking about, how could you expect me to see myself as ‘wrong’ when I’m arguing based on the facts?
Roh-Dog: Now, if there is something else you’d like to ACTUALLY
As you could see, I’m addressing you point-by-point. You’re getting mad at me for talking about a specific topic while ignoring that you brought those specific topics up first.
Roh-Dog: discuss
I like to debate the things that we are currently debating.
Response to Roh-Dog, November 20, 2022, Part 4C
Roh-Dog: THAT DOESN’T involve insulting; me, MD, people who disagree with you, etc; I’m ears.
Telling it like it is about you, and about others, to include defending my position and me from their attacks, is not my insulting you guys. I suspect that you’ve mistaken constructive criticism given to you in the past as insults?
Roh-Dog: You’re entitled to an opinion.
If you truly believed this, you would not be responding to me in a way that’s making me laugh my arse off. You would not be shifting to making erroneous statements about my physical appearance if you truly believed that I am entitled to the arguments that I’m making here.
Response to MarineDad61, November 20, 2022, Part 1A
MarineDad61: Roh-Dog (and 3 others). I stand by every word here today.
And I stand by every word that I’ve said on this thread, just as I stand by the arguments that I’ve made over the past 19 years I’ve debated against people like you online.
I don’t argue with people to change their minds. Likewise, I come out of these debates with the same argument I had going into these debates.
MarineDad61: It was a mistake for VG to allow thebesig to use this website to spread his conspiracy theories,
You’ve consistently failed to prove my posts as being “conspiracy theories”. Your denigrating the website itself, without doing anything to prove wrong the story that I linked to, does not constitute hard proof that I spread “conspiracy theories.”
Response to MarineDad61, November 20, 2022, Part 2A
MarineDad61: and then play his little game of Flame Wars every time someone (or somefour) call him out on it.
Don’t mistake your (or some four) complaining about something that I posted, presenting baseless opinion, as your “calling me out” on anything. As for the flame war, It’s my responding in kind. Failure to demonstrate tact could start flame wars.
MarineDad61: I rest my case. Y’all enjoy your weekend.
A case that you’ve failed to argue based on fact, reason, and logic. However, I anticipate that you’re going to come back here, after I post my rebuttals, and explain things that are not the case… Proving me right and you wrong even when it comes to what you will do (case not being rested).
MarineDad61: Testing. Testing. VG comment jail, or still free to type?
This is a subconscious indication that you know that you’re pushing the envelope, despite warnings given to you in the past, both on the threads, and in private as mentioned in the Russian soldier, communication intercept, thread.
As I mentioned recently, the last time you were thrown into mod jail, it was because I asked that you be thrown there in lieu of the ban hammer, with my being the person that reviewed and determine if your post goes public… Reserving the right to make the appropriate adjustments if needed before approving. This is not something that is just between the two of us.
214 comments here now (this makes 215).
92 of the comments are by thebesig.
(Yes, I used text search,
and a whole lotta mouse clicking,
looking for (and counting) all those goofy eagle heads.)
Life imitates John Cleese and Michael Palin (Monty Python).
Scroll up for my 2 comments
with video links to the vintage classic sketch
“Argument Clinic”.
lolol
MarineDad61: 214 comments here now (this makes 215). 92 of the comments are by thebesig.
This has been the trend in the 19 years I’ve debated online. It takes at least one person from each side of the argument to keep an argument going. I may have posted the most comments, but it took more than one person to cause this post count to go up.
MarineDad61: (Yes, I used text search, and a whole lotta mouse clicking, looking for (and counting)
Many of us do the same thing here, and on other websites, like when reading and responding to the opposition.
MarineDad61: all those goofy eagle heads.)
I highly doubt that you would be denigrating my eagle head image had we argued on the same side of the argument. The fact that I refuse to back down appears to contribute to your labeling the avatar image that way.
Comments opened. Cautiously.
Now I’m no angel here, but I’m starting to think you done fucked up.
Bigly.
(and by you I clearly mean me. ‘Point a finger, the bulk point back’ thing/meme here)
I don’t operate in a vacuum, -Dog. I opened the comments up by request.
Salty Cracker Truce in No Man’s Land.
Bring the figgy pudding, I’ll light the candles.
Brandy (and leftist tears) MUST flow!
It’s about time everyone tucked their peckers back in their pants, this sword fight is wearing thin. I suggest you exchange e-mail addys or phone numbers, maybe join a chat app together, and you can smack each other with your dicks till the second coming. It’s no longer interesting, it’s not even entertaining. It’s grade-school playground bullshit.
My sincerest apologies for the ‘mud’ flinging, SFC D.
(see image)
SFC D:
Shack. Thanks for bringing the “Knock It Off” call to this nonsense.
This exchange is the kind of endless/pointless pissing contest that ultimately drives good people away from TAH.
No one comes to TAH to see this kind of crap.
To the antagonists involved: as SFC D suggests, please knock it off and take your disagreements offline. Thanks.
Response to Mick, November 21, 2022, Part 1A
Mick: SFC D: Shack.
That does not qualify for a “shack” response. He has no control over what others do, did not stay away from this thread, and said something that assisted the argument’s continuing rather than stopping it. Both SFC D and you should have refrained from posting your responses. This would have been more effective to this thread’s ending on its own.
Mick: Thanks for bringing the “Knock It Off” call to this nonsense.
You might as well thank him for extending the life of this thread, just as you’ve done. Think that this is “nonsense”? Ignore this thread to avoid the risk of extending its run.
Response to Mick, November 21, 2022, Part 2A
Mick: This exchange is the kind of endless/pointless pissing contest
This thread was just down to Roh-Dog and me, tonight would have seen less posts from me than yesterday. This argument is close to its natural end. However, thanks to SFC D and to you, tonight’s batch consists of more posts than what could have been.
Mick: that ultimately drives good people away from TAH. No one comes to TAH to see this kind of crap.
They don’t have to if they ignore this thread. Comment drops taking up the side? One could aways click on a specific thread or its comments link to go to the other threads. The comment counts right next to each thread indicates which one most are participating on.
Response to Mick, November 21, 2022, Part 3A
Mick: To the antagonists involved: as SFC D suggests, please knock it off and take your disagreements offline. Thanks.
If your intent was to end this argument, the words that you used in this sentence guaranteed that your request would be rejected. A more realistic course of action would be for others to simply ignore this thread, to refrain from reading anything on it, and to refrain from posting on it. Let it end naturally, which it is close to doing.
Tonight’s batch would have only been around 3 posts. SFC D and you contributed to the response batch containing more.
My apologies for inadvertently stirring the pot. It would appear that it’s my fault that this continues. I still stand by my comment that it’s grade school bullshit. And with that, I will comment no more on this thread.
SFC D,
No, you did the right thing.
You took the time to type it out.
The +6 green thumbs up on your comment are the proof.
IMHO, no need for you to apologize.
I just made seven.
The real Green Thumb.
MarineDad61: SFC D, No, you did the right thing. You took the time to type it out.
He didn’t do the right thing. If you’re going to demand that others stop arguing, don’t say something that would continue it. He did the wrong thing first, by jumping in here and saying something that continued the argument, then by failing to do as he preached.
MqarineDad61: The +6 green thumbs up on your comment are the proof. IMHO, no need for you to apologize.
The upvotes that you guys give each other mean nothing. It’s akin to a Dutch rudder crew giving each other a thumbs up.
SFC D: My apologies for inadvertently stirring the pot. It would appear that it’s my fault that this continues.
If you truly believed what you said, you wouldn’t have provided this response. You complained of the sword fight “wearing thin”, yet here you are waving yours. I guess “taking it private” was not a good idea after all.
SFC D: I still stand by my comment that it’s grade school bullshit.
Which you gladly took part in. If you truly believed this to be the case, your actions would not have contradicted your demands for those of us previously arguing here.
SFC D: And with that, I will comment no more on this thread.
This would match your actions to your words.
Response to SFC D, November 21, 2022, Part 1A
SFC D: It’s about time everyone tucked their peckers back in their pants, this sword fight is wearing thin.
People could exercise the option to not read this thread. This includes the option to not click on it, or to the links to the comments here. The best course of action was for others to not jump in the middle of an argument they want stopped.
SFC D: I suggest you exchange e-mail addys or phone numbers, maybe join a chat app together, and you can smack each other with your dicks till the second coming.
The history of the argument is here, in an open forum, with the intent to argue in an open forum. Requiring that this be moved to a private exchange is equal to requiring that this argument stop immediately.
Response to SFC D, November 21, 2022, Part 2A
SFC D: It’s no longer interesting, it’s not even entertaining.
When I no longer find a thread or forum interesting or entertaining, I stop going to that thread or forum. I don’t have privileged access to that option, it’s something that others here could also do.
SFC D: It’s grade-school playground bullshit.
Entering a heated debate and telling the debaters that they’re engaging in grade-school playground BS, encourages argument on this thread rather than stop it. It’s also something that one would expect at a grade-school playground.
Prior to you and Mick jumping on this thread, it was down to Roh-Dog and me. Without Mike and your posts, I would have posted around 3 posts. Your responses increased that.
The sickness continues.
Again.
Not only at Roh-Dog, and then at me, this time.
thebesig also pulls out the Part 1 Part 2 routine on
SFC D and Mick,
who were nice enough to show up
and tell EVERYONE here to knock it off.
Worse,
thebesig makes it clear that
he believes everyone should just scroll on by,
or ignore him,
while he takes NO responsibility for his obsession
to annoy.
Meanwhile,
VG continues to do NOTHING about thebesig.
Ugh.
Now 100 goofy eagle heads above.
Double Ugh.
MarineDad61: Now 100 goofy eagle heads above. Double Ugh.
Again, I’ve been doing this for 19 years. I’ve had threads in the past where my responses to a thread went into the hundreds… I’ve hammered people who were more stubborn than you guys by a long shot, in arguments that lasted longer. This is nothing new to me, this thread is nothing compared to those in intensity and word volume.
You’re like that person who, after getting burned for touching the “red” stove burner, demands that the red stove burner stop burning you… Just to touch it again and get burned, repeat cycle. Want me to stop? Then stop responding to this thread. It’s THAT simple. This isn’t rocket science.
“Do you know that I have every intention of…arguing…until…I’m…on my death bed”
Hey, just so you know: you ain’t arguing…and no one else is.
Which, imho, makes this a whole lot more pathetic.
Roh-Dog: Hey, just so you know: you ain’t arguing…and no one else is.
As long as we are disagreeing in the way we’ve been disagreeing on this thread, we are arguing.
Roh-Dog: Which, imho, makes this a whole lot more pathetic.
“Pathetic”, as they declare that I will do what I intend to do, not what you want me to do. By extension, the less likely that you’re not going to get your way.
If you felt that it was “pathetic”, you would have abandoned the thread. As for me, I’m having a great time doing this. The stunts that you guys pulled on this thread, I’ve seen numerous times before in the past 19 years. Like you, they thought that they would succeed. Like them, you will fail to get your way.
no one cares
not-a-fking-soul
Roh-Dog: no one cares not-a-fking-soul [REPEAT POINT]
If nobody, not an f*n soul cared, nobody would be responding to me, including you… Unless you consider yourself a “no one”.
Response to MarineDad61, November 22, 2022, Part 1A
MarineDad61: The sickness continues. Again.
It’s “sickness” when I do it, but not when you guys do it? If you have no problem with your side continuing to comment, you shouldn’t have problems with my commenting. Your one sidedness exposes your apparent psychological profile.
MarineDad61: Not only at Roh-Dog, and then at me, this time.
Taking swipes at me, while addressing others, is not going to stop me from providing you a counter rebuttal.
MarineDad61: thebesig also pulls out the Part 1 Part 2 routine on SFC D and Mick,
Because it required me more than one post to show them how erroneous their stances were. I could post from the dashboard, going above the post limit and just have one post… But given that it annoys you, I’ll keep throwing those “multi posts” up.
Response to MarineDad61, November 22, 2022, Part 2A
MarineDad61: who were nice enough to show up and tell EVERYONE here to knock it off.
How did that work out for SFC D, Roh-Dog, LC, and you? Doesn’t “EVERYONE” include you guys? You have no problems with your side responding to me, and to each other in contradiction to SFC D’s demands, but it’s a problem when I do the same?
MarineDad61: Worse, thebesig makes it clear that he believes everyone should just scroll on by, or ignore him, while he takes NO responsibility for his obsession to annoy.
It’s the only way this will stop. Your side demands that everyone stops. So, how would this be resolved so that everyone gets what they wish for, I continue to respond as I have every intention of doing “until kingdom come“, and you guys get an end to this?
“It’s the only way this will stop.”
You’re a terrorist then?
Good deal. There is a cure,
Roh-Dog: You’re a terrorist then?
By your ego driven misinterpretation of what I said above, God, our founding fathers, and parents are “terrorists”.
You want me to “stop”. Yet, you are not willing to take the action needed to bring the back and forth on this thread to an end… Mainly, by doing what you guys demand that I do, instead of doing the opposite but expecting me to comply.
Reading comprehension, it’s a drug.
Roh-Dog: Good deal. There is a cure,
That is your first step. Your next step is to see someone about your anger, control, and ego issues, and about any other vices (Drugs? Alcohol? Gambling?) that you have that keeps you pursuing poor judgment calls here.
I am the vice.
Roh-Dog: I am the vice.
The vice is your master. Your identifying with liquor, to include alcohol smell and alcohol desire, is an example of what the Bible means by “mark of the beast on the forehead”.
I’m going to guess that based on your erroneous assumptions about me because of my age, that you’re either a Millennial or younger Xer. I’ve seen your comments on the Midweek Open Thread, and here, to see verification of one of the suspicions I have on your apparent psychological profile.
I’ve had friends and family, within 4 years of my age, pass away when we were in our 40s. A common denominator? Your style of drinking dependency. If you don’t break the yoke of this beast from your neck, your vice will drive you to the graveyard and you’ll wind up preceding me to the other side.
Response to MarineDad61, November 22, 2022, Part 3A
The answer lays in the fact that you guys can’t control what I do. However, you guys can control what you guys do. Want me to stop? Then resist the urge to come to this thread. If you can’t do that, resist the urge to read and reply to my posts. I have a right to respond to you guys, and I intend to. I won’t listen to your side’s demands that I “stop”.
MarineDad61: Meanwhile, VG continues to do NOTHING about thebesig. Ugh.
I’m doing what you guys are doing, posting on this thread. I told you guys what needed to happen if I am to stop posting here. The ball is in your court. If you respond to me, don’t complain when I respond to you. I’m having too much of a great time seeing you guys react to what I said.
Normally I don’t wish ill upon random folks, but if you ceased this moment,,,,?
Not a care over here.
You have a great nite.
Roh-Dog: Normally I don’t wish ill upon random folks, but if you ceased this moment,,,,? Not a care over here.
You don’t care for people who refuse your attempts to control, dominate, etc., them. However, it doesn’t matter to me that you would not care if I were to “cease this moment”. The fact that you think I would be concerned about that speaks volumes about your inflated sense of self-worth.
Roh-Dog: You have a great nite.
I was long asleep by the time you posted your replies to me last night. I go to bed early to get up early to do my predawn distance runs.