Well Friday’s WOT got exciting
Let’s chat about these classified documents seized at Mar-A-Lago.
First of all, there were 11 FILES seized, not 11 BOXES of files if you read the news articles. How much info was in the files? Most likely we will never know for sure, but that 11 FILES phrasing has been used in every credible-looking article I have seen. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but 27 boxes is the number I saw for the total haul. What was actually in those boxes – I don’t know, and I doubt any agent on the scene does either.
The items removed from Mar-a-Lago include 27 boxes, 11 of which contained classified documents. Four sets were marked “Top Secret,” the highest level of classification the government can give information; three were marked “Secret,” the second-highest level, while another three were marked “Confidential,” the lowest classification level.
Top Secret? Pretty damning. Small factual error – there are lower levels of classification, such as restricting access from foreigners or mandating the info be encrypted when transmitted but nothing else, but they are generally within the SIGINT community (bet even Lars can confirm that.)
Next, we have the allegation that these were nuclear tippy-top secret weapon plans.
The Washington Post reported late Thursday that the feds were looking for “classified documents relating to nuclear weapons” during the raid, though neither the warrant nor inventory list specifically referenced nuclear weapons or programs.
A big development in the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago. “Classified documents relating to nuclear weapons were among the items FBI agents sought in a search of former president Donald Trump’s Florida residence on Monday, according to people familiar with the investigation,”
When it comes the rumors about Trump, remember this was not attributed and WaPo has loudly supported every possible allegation about Trump. Not exactly an unbiased source, nor a very credible one.
Now we get to Trump’s claim that he declassified all of these. That begs the question of when? Where? Is there a paper trail? If there isn’t, wishful thinking doesn’t count. Now, similarly, he says they were working with appropriate authorities and even added extra security at their request. (A lock? How impressive.) Seems to me these are the key points – if true, if he has the paper trail, and they KNEW he had the docs and were discussing things like physical security for them – he pretty much gets a free pass. Until that gets decided one way or another, comparisons to Hillary and Obama are only good for the Trump base and we’re all awaiting facts.
I do remember that quite a bit of secure info was only classified due to its source, not its content. And that we used to say there was Secret, Top Secret, and Published in the Stars & Stripes. Or that the difference between secret info and common knowledge was that common knowledge was harder to come by. I know for a fact some analysts at an Army site used about 6 months’ of Stars & Stripes articles to put together a more accurate TO&E for USAREUR than the classified ones.
Here’s a good spot for all your classification experts to chime in – my knowledge is not current and things may have changed.
Category: None
Given how trustful the US Government and media have proven themselves to be, who can one believe these days?
I watched (R) congress members put the FBI on blast yesterday for playing politics these last 10 years or so. They brought up everything from them classifying the left wing ball field assassination attempt being a “suicide by cop” to kid glove treatment of leftist pols. It was pretty damning stuff altogether.
^This^
Remember that the fan belt inspector spokeshole announced that there was no evidence as to the shooter’s motivation, and that politics had nothing to do with the crime.
WaPo’s confidential source?
This fellow got his comeuppance. Karma.
Good, loyal party members all have an expiration date when they are no longer useful to Fearless Leader.
If you haven’t heard a rumor by noon start one.
What/who was the Original Classification Authority (OCA) for each of these files? Who is/was the Declassification Authority?
In early 1990 I was formally trained in Tactical Deception. Two of the guiding precepts were we didn’t use the press/media and we didn’t lie to the American people.
Following the Brothers to the Rescue incident in 1996 I realized that politicians didn’t play by those rules and lost faith in anything coming from the swamp. I’m not talking about leaving some juicy tidbits around and the media jumping to the wrong conclusion. I’m speaking of a white house spokesman on record stating something I knew was a bald face lie.
Do I accept what the Govt says at face value – no not any more. Was I naive when I believed earlier. Probably.
In the 24 hour news cycle I don’t believe media reports for at least a week after an event other than something happened.
“If you haven’t heard a rumor by noon start one.”
So true. “Democracy dies in darkness” may be the official Wash. Post motto, but you discovered the real one.
What he should of done was move the data to a email sever like Hillary Clinton did. THEN it would have been just fine. then maybe allowed an embassy to burn down.
And put it in his bathroom with a big C on it.
Instruct the maid to wipe it off with a cloth every couple of weeks.
There, now we’re good !!!
If my memory serves, The levels of security classifications are/were: FOUO (for official use only), Confidential, Secret and Top Secret. Granted there are subsets like Comsec, NOFOR, etc….
As always, you milage may vary.
Don’t forget my personal favorite, NATO’s Cosmic Top Secret.
Moreover, don’t forget this security classification.
Mason,
Cosmic Atomal.
NATO’s version of TS/SCI.
True story: Encrypt For Transmission Only was used on otherwise unclassified stuff that we still didn’t really want read by the Other Guys. There was a stamp you used for papers that said UNCLAS EFTO to physically mark papers. One bored night shifter started playing with the stamp, and they said it was almost noon the next day before someone noticed all the recent papers were stamped UNCLE FATSO.
Back in my days of the Angry 109, encrypted was the only way we were allowed to or capable to communicate on a UW mission.
The venerable FOUO is being replaced by CUI as the lowest sensitivity level (i.e., classification). To the right come what we called the “compartments”, like //NOFORN and //SCI. The most sensitive is //HUMINT (HUMan INTelligence). //HUMINT is controlled as TS regardless of the level because if it’s compromised somebody is going to get dead.
DOE has different sensitivity levels: UCNI and CUI, L and Q, in order.
FOUO is not a classification and within DOD has been superseded by CUI (Controlled Unclassified Information)
From my understanding, The President has the power/authority to declassify documents. Therefore, by taking the documents and the corresponding memos/notes the President is by default declassifying everything in his possession. That’s what they do when they leave office. What do you think are in Presidential Libraries? Of course, every Dem and all their operatives/lackies/piss-ant drones/minions are TERIFIED of Trump. He’s the bogey-man under their beds. He’s focus of their nightmares, and they will lie about everything and anything to try and stop him. If I had a dollar for every time they “got him”, I’d be driving a Cadillac instead of a Chevy. More Dumb-o-cratic nonsense and hysteria.
I keep seeing things in the right wing media on the topic of the search warrant that I think need discussion.
#3 is the easiest. It’s rare that the subject of a search warrant or their legal representative will be allowed to observe the execution of the warrant. In most cases, the police secure the property (which includes removing everyone) and then start the search. This is both practical and tactical. If you let the subject or their lawyer observe the search, you just end up arguing with them over everything you’re doing. Tactically, having someone behind you while you’re digging around in all their possessions isn’t a bright idea for obvious reasons.
#2 is also easy. The warrant was for documents. That means they can search anything that would reasonably contain documents. That means they can search anything and everything on that property, which is described in the warrant as massive.
If you don’t think that people won’t hide illegal stuff in unpleasant places to search, you’re naive. People smuggle stuff inside themselves or in their underwear and put drugs in the baby’s crib.
#1 is pretty simple. It’s a huge effing property. Even with 30 agents it took them several hours to search. If they had done this with one or two agents, they’d have been there for days.
They took 9 hours and wouldn’t let Trump’s lawyer watch because they were all taking turns trying on Melania’s panties.
I can’t disprove that, so it’s definitely possible. Super model first lady panties…there’s a market.
Careful what you ask for.
Clorox eye bleach please
I specified “Super model”.
Never heard of Bait-and-Switch?
*grin*
Nobody wants to see those granny panties, let alone handle them.
That’s Super MODEL, not super MOLDY!
This isn’t the fbi I used to know. More like the new 21st century 4th Reich Gestapo working for the demoRatic party.
If there is anything actionable, they planted it. After all, these are the scumbags who:
* Pushed Russia collusion hoax
* Spied on law-abiding Americans
* Lied to FISA court
* Ignored Hillary’s server escapades
* Ignored Biden Family criminal activity
* Persecutes journalists at Project Veritas
* Treats J6 trespassers like terrorists
* Goes after PTA moms
This!
It’s pretty evident that the AG conspired with POTATUS using the Archivist and Das Fartur’s rescinding authority on records/privilege…
In order to seize materials from a private citizen, without due process and by a manner repugnant to the Constitution.
Ditch 46!
He and Garland are criminals until proven otherwise.
(I wonder if AG 4’0”&90lbs has ever been to Little St James….)
You might take a look at the warrant and list of what was seized.
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22131380/trump-warrant-unsealed.pdf
View from the cheap seats –
Some on the WoT have catastrophic TDS. Others are distrustful to the point of disdainful of any criticism of DJT. Neither will change the mind of the other.
Part of me wants to be even handed and say to both, “What if you’re wrong in both the generalities and the specifics?” Which side being wrong is least catastrophic for all of us?
If we are to judge the truth through the clarifying lens of history, so far, the former are woefully and maybe willfully misguided at best. No one wants the latter to be correct as that says very scary things for all of us.
Then I remember everything one side has said and has been proven wrong about, again and again, and everything that is going wrong in this country…
I predict that lens of history will again say the hype was intentionally overblown to create another false narrative. Which begs the question – why are they so desperate to destroy DJT?
I’m going to answer my own question with a(n) examples I’ve witnessed. Living near a dead-Blue metropolis, many of my friends are die-hard Dems. I’ve lost count of how many have become purple if not crimson red because of all of these narratives and accusations having been proven false.
Actually, it’s more the way the accusations have been breathlessly, gleefully repeated for weeks, months or years and then crickets when the predicates are proven not just false but as knowingly told lies.
I sincerely hope this latest is the final nail in the coffin of miscalculation the Dems have built and in which they will be buried. I have never been politically partisan. I still don’t feel particularly partisan and very much want to support some historically Democratic ideas.
If they really wanted to stem the crimson tide coming in November, they would have staged this piece of political theater in two months. As it is, let’s just hope there is something left to save.
“-why are they so desparate to destroy DJT?” So they can destroy us, OAM, and he was in the way. If the true history of these last fews years is ever told, the record will show that DJT peeled back the layers showing the despotic tyrants of BOTH parties that were only concerned with enriching themselves and getting re-elected. I met DJT, briefly, at a business meeting in NYC back in the 80s. He was a typical Noo Yawk Shitty brash, bombastic, egotiscal, self centered, damyanky. I didn’t vote for him twice because I thought he was a good ol’ boy (I initially supported Ben Carson). I voted for him because he WAS NOT a career politician and he WAS NOT the Bitch of Benghazi, Hitlery. Love him or hate him, one has to admit he did try to do what was best for the average working person in America. Like Carter, an outsider, DJT was obstructed by his own party.
The ballot box (“who counts the votes.”) put us in the mess. Sadly, the only way out may be the cartridge box.
WHO and PINO Joe’s Handlers erred on the timing on the Monkeypox non-crisis, too.
They must destroy DJT and any America First remnants to cover all the crimes going back to Berry’s spying in 2016, as now CDC changes course on the Covid death clot shot as the truth about the not a vacs vaccine is really gene therapy and kills.
If they won 2020 fair, they would be flaunting the receipts in the election deniers face and not raiding MAL in a fishing trip.
They fear orange jumpsuits and World Wide Nuremburg 2.0 which will hit both party’s.
I’ll bite. A large part of the issue is, of course, the severe polarization we have. You hint to this already, but I like to point out the TDS on both sides of the aisle – on the left, it’s the Trump Derangement Syndrome where the man is a shifty caricature of evil in human form, out to do everything bad to make a buck. On the right, it’s Trump Devotion Syndrome, where he’s the savior for America, brave, smart, and ready to take on scary things like ‘the swamp’ and ‘the deep state’.
With both, it’s hard to get any middle ground, since it seems like a capitulation away from that severe view.
So, for example, in this current kerfuffle with the TS/SCI docs, the left wants to see treason, and the right.. well, the right is still figuring out its story, in my opinion. The docs were either planted, or already declassified, or equal to what Obama did, or whatever. We can get back to that later, but the point is, to the right, Trump (..more..)
..(continued)… did nothing wrong. It’s a hoax. A witch hunt. An FBI gone rogue. Etc.
In my opinion, the most likely scenario is indeed in the middle. Did Trump intentionally mishandle classified material? If so, what was his goal? If, as some on the left are hoping, his nefarious plan was to sell secrets to a foreign power,.. wouldn’t he just have taken pictures of said documents, already in his possession, then returned them? I mean, I think the man is a dunce, but even I don’t see him being that dumb to hold on to stuff intentionally after a subpoena.
But, if what we’re hearing is true, he -or someone close to him- did indeed mishandle highly classified material. Nuke secrets, and now, apparently, names of either US intelligence agents or undercover intelligence assets. That gives me heart palpitations – there’s no fucking reason for anyone to have that information outside of a SCIF. If PFC Smitty did this, he’d be in a world of hurt.
Since we’re presumably not in favor of different spanks for different ranks -I mean, we had whole chants of “Lock Her Up” for also unintentionally mishandling classified material, right?- what should the punishment be?
As for which side being wrong is least catastrophic, here’s where we strongly disagree. To the Left, Donald Trump is either an idiot, a conman, a criminal, a traitor, or something else along those lines. If they’re wrong, they’ve tarnished the name of one man, and put him through hell.
To the Right, the whole system is rigged – the ‘deep state’, stolen election nonsense, the FBI is now the Gestapo, the Democrats want to enslave you, etc. If they’re wrong, well, they’ve maligned entire swaths of our society and government, and done irreparable damage to it.
That, clearly, is a whole lot worse.
So, yes, the hype here is definitely overblown, but this gets to the second aspect that is such a problem, along with the polarization.
“for also unintentionally mishandling classified material, right?”
Wrong. It was intentional.
And that is that people want to see things in black and white, when in reality most of these things are complicated. For example, you paint this whole thing as a ‘false narrative’ – and I would agree that the ‘treason!’ angle is almost certainly false, but the ‘mishandling classified material’ angle likely is not, even if not directly his fault.
Similarly, just to pick on one I think you or someone else mentioned earlier, the ‘Russian collusion’ angle is nuanced – if you missed it, this past week, Paul Manafort admitted to sharing sensitive campaign data with a Russian spy. Does this mean Trump was a Russian asset? No, of course it doesn’t. But the guy running his campaign was indeed ‘colluding’, so to speak. We should be able to acknowledge both these facts, but people want this to be a black and white thing, not something messier. But real life is often messy.
As for why people are ‘desperate’ to ‘destroy’ DJT, I don’t really see it that way, either, unsurprisingly.
People like myself do hope he gets his comeuppance, because I think he’s a habitual liar and conman – from the crowd size of his inauguration to how the Boy Scouts said he gave the best speech ever to not knowing anything about a payment to the porn star he slept with to .. well, countless ones. With arguably the most damaging being the whole ‘stolen election’ one, which many here still buy into.
I don’t think he’s an evil man, or a comic book villain – he’s an opportunist who wants to be liked and to make money, and he’s found ways to do that by cultivating an almost cult-like following.. but I feel -and again, I know we’ll disagree on this- that that following has been detrimental to the country.
So I’m not desperate to see him ‘destroyed’.. I just think justice is overdue. Nothing beyond that.
You need an editor, LC. All those words to say,
“I don’t like Trump or his followers…” 🙄
As I said the other day, if someone genuinely ask a question that seems to warrant discussion, I’ll try to answer it in a genuine fashion. Sometimes that takes a bit of space.
I know more than 20 words at a time makes your brain hurt, Poe, but I think OAM can handle it. 😉
(Notice, please, the lack of italics and the addition of an emoji, just for you!)
What comes to mind is that old saying, “You ask a fellow the time and he tells you how to build a watch.”
Hmm? 🤔
When you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.
It is a waste of synapses to read read his verbose, redundant blather. We septuagenarians only have limited time left. Don’t waste it on this tool who never served or took the oath.
LC – You bit, chewed and spit it out as if there is something so distasteful, you’d rather starve, preferring the pablum of partisan predicates. I’ll pick just one- the entirety of the Russian collusion narrative was a hoax. It was a lie designed, bought and paid for by Hillery’s campaign. This has been proven, at considerable taxpayer expense, i.e., a negative and scary impact on all of us.
The fact you cling to even a portion of that narrative also exemplifies another scary consequence for all of us.
You seem to assert DJT supporters have some inherent belief in his goodness or character. This, despite most supporters stating clearly his messages resonate – energy independence, America first, Marxist ideology in all its iterations is bad, deep state, biased media, etc.
You didn’t answer my question-“What if you’re wrong in both the generalities and the specifics?” Which side being wrong is least catastrophic for all of us?-directly, but you did, inadvertently.
“because I think he’s a habitual liar and conman”
Not unlike both Clintons.
When the Clintons and Sid Blumenthal are in jail I will listen to accusations of law breaking by Trump.
My 2¢:
If we can learn anything about these news reports, it is that the first reports are always wrong in many, perhaps most, of the facts.
Recent history has, as our beloved OAM pointed out, made it reasonable to believe that the media intentionally lie about anything relating to President Trump, and therefore to discount all news reports about this as more TDS-related propaganda.
If anything, suspension of judgement until a fair amount of time has passed for facts to be established is going to be the best policy. The FBI has proven incapable of hiding its misdeeds in Waco and at Ruby Ridge. (As the RINOs have proven incapable of mustering sufficient backbone to bring the FBI to account.)
President Trump is, as are we all, human and capable, therefore, of doing something stupid. His track record of stupid to genius actions, however, would incline a bookie to not bet against him.
“His track record of stupid to genius actions, however, would incline a bookie to not bet against him.”
👆
A favorite Dad saying of mine- “The race is not always to the swift, nor the fight to the strong. But that’s the way to bet.”
As has been for the past 7 years of the 24 hour Trump Derangement News Cycle, wait 3-5 weeks for real information to slowly see the light of day.
These are the same news organizations that are also still peddling the Russia collaboration hoax narrative.
When I was growing up I believed our government was much better than the rest of the world. I believed the others were corupt socialist bastions that did not represent the peoples interests.
I believed our governmet was not perfect but they represented our interests and would follow the Constitution. I was sure there was a little graft but still would support the country.
After the last twenty years that belief has been thrown completely out the window.
FJB
Defund the FBI = FSB
Once larsie-boi stinks up the place, I refuse to walk in to the place simply because he stinks up the entire thing.
Anyway, This will probably be the end result of the action last week.
Just desserts to the morons with donut holes where their brains should be.
Can you imagine the hardon larsie-boi got when he watched the Trump raid for twenty hours straight.
I bet he wen full on hardon and made it out to at least three inches !!!
We used to call people like this asswipe, needledick butt fuckers…
https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2022/08/13/david-brooks-did-fbi-just/
Question
Does else anybody else remember when the FBI looked at Hillary’s E-MAILS on Anthony Weiner’s computer, and told us they did not have anybody (in the FBI) with a high enough security clearance to look at the files?
Some things still have a TS.
When discussing Democrat credibility, that picture’s worth far more than the proverbial thousand words…
“…there were 11 FILES seized, not 11 BOXES of files if you read the news articles.”
That’s standard. The first week or so of a story like this is 99% rumor, gossip, and speculation. That’s why I wait at least a week before believing any of it.
I enjoy the mental masturbation over this!
ORANGE. MAN. BAD.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/12/motive-clear-doj-search-warrant-was-to-seize-every-single-document-during-entirety-of-president-trump-term-in-office-regardless-of-classification
Somebody wants to see what Trump has on them. It’s not nuclear secrets as they would like us to believe.
Agree; they are worried about all the formerly classified documents that prove the extent and identity of all the conspirators in the alphabet agencies that were complicit in all the crimes they committed to get Trump forced out of office, by any means necessary. Trump undoubtedly had or has copies of unredacted documents that the DOJ have been stalling on releasing for the past two years.
Glad to see there is someone else here who reads the Treehouse. Sundance is almost psychic, since so many of his prognostications and analyses have proven accurate.
Agreed about Sundance almost psychic abilities. Good thing it wasn’t listed on gateway pundit, some heads here would explode.
I often wonder just who Sundance is or who he knows as sources.
In case you missed it, he met with some of these DC deep staters to show them how the complex Russia, Russia hoax and related crimes occurred. He came away quite disillusioned. That is when he figured out the
many decepticons purporting to work for Trump and his administration.
(grin)
Did the FBI and National Archives ever search Sandy Burglar’s sock drawer?
Short answer: No. And he was allowed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor, pay a fine, and get probation for a year or two.
Sorry my 2 cents turned into a quarter!!!! I just can’t figure out why the Democrats that loved Trump and his money for 50 years and now have their hair on Fire because he ran as a rebublican and wow. He only did things that all Politican said they would do ,but didn’t. There is something in Washington they don’t want him to find. If he does get a second term he will be savy to their tactics. That my Friends scares the shit out of Politicans and Money men that run the Country. I’m afraid if Ron DeSantis dosen’t get the ball I will have to go with Trump.
Just think how you would have continued everyday to work with so much being thrown at you. The guy just dosen’t give Up!
Wow, I just posted a comment on the Gen. Milley article and the whole article disappeared. And I didn’t even say anything offensive. Well, I did call Milley a “decepticon.” But since he purportedly admitted to some book scribbler that he was going to work undercover against Trump and lead a military coup if necessary, the appellation seems to fit.