Polish MiGs going to Ukraine? Nobody knows

| March 9, 2022

Last week it was reported that Ukraine said they would be receiving fighters from nearby countries. Those countries are part of NATO, who is trying hard to officially stay out of the Russia-Ukraine War. Poland told the media it was “fake news” that they were considering the move. Our Secretary of State said, hours later, that the US was in talks with Poland to send fighters. He also said NATO countries have the “green light” to send fighter jets to Ukraine.

Yesterday, Poland appears to have diplomatically outmaneuvered Blinkin and Biden. Not a hard move mind you, since they are the slowest guns in the west, but here’s how it’s playing out.

Poland is now saying they will transfer their MiG-29 Fulcrum fighter jets to the US for transfer to Ukraine. The Pentagon here says that that plan is “not tenable.”

Poland is in the unenviable position of being on Russia’s doorstep. Which Ukraine reminded us a while back is a headache. Poland doesn’t want to get invaded (again) by Russia. They’re putting the question of their jets going to Ukraine in the hands of the US. This is a brilliant move. They can simultaneously says they support Ukraine in the way Zelensky is literally begging for while also saying that it’s not their fault the jets aren’t going to Ukraine. Poland gets to play benevolent benefactor while the US (again) gets to be the bad guy.

With our President and Secretary of State at the helm, we’re being played. Meanwhile, gas prices are at historic highs with no signs of slowing down (unlike our President’s mental faculties).

Category: "Your Tax Dollars At Work", Biden, Foreign Policy, Russia, Ukraine

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rgr769

According to their spokes-hole, the DOD is not going to have anything to do with the Poles giving any fighter aircraft to the Ukraine. So much for that “green light.” Guess that comment made two days ago is no longer operative. Vlad musta called Brandon or Hunter.

Roh-Dog

If NATO does this, or the US unilaterally, the act will be a loose left that lands with no effect other than angering a formidable foe.

It’s a bad idea and we have been warned, but our imposed government seems to not have functioning ears.

I disagree with this, “..gas prices are at historic highs with no signs of slowing down”. Again, our selected government will bend over for every tinpot dictator around the globe in order to support US debt note hegemony.

We are effectively operating foreign policy in the most immoral way possible. May God have mercy on these States United.

Last edited 3 months ago by Roh-Dog
5JC

See this is where we disagree. You think invading a country and murdering it’s civilian population, stealing it’s lands, making it’s citizens flee, then planting mines along the routes they are fleeing on is more noble. And in truth that is how the European nobility operated for more than a thousand years.

Roh-Dog

War is dangerous? Ukraine was in a position to negotiate herself out of one but thought it’s actions would be backed up by NATO. Sucks to suck.

Putin warned the world and it serves us nothing but further reprisals if we ship these Migs to be shooting practice for Russia’s military.

As I said before, I don’t care. This isn’t our fight and it’s a dumb move to get more involved. A move we’ll probably make too.

5JC

For all your proclamations of detachment you sure comment a lot about it.

My only concern with your statement was that the US is conducting foreign policy in the most immoral way possible when this is clearly rhetoric.
prior administrations have done a lot worse in the past and they have a ways to go to before hitting rock bottom. But it is pretty bad.

Roh-Dog

Sure I comment. I am detached to the outcome in those lands, yet bound to my country’s lack of restraint in acting provocatively.

I live here and like the current background radiation levels.

And it’s not rhetoric, it’s a weighted and measured opinion. One I’ve balanced with evidence.

I’m not concerned with prior administrations, the near-fight is the US’s dictator-shopping to feed our energy needs. Joe broke it and now seems to be willing to lick fingers of even worse government than Russia and Ukraine.

It is immoral.

5JC

So you don’t think it could get any worse then; because that is exactly what you are saying. I’m saying it is indeed quite possible.

Your indefensible defense of Putin is masochistic hilarity however.

Roh-Dog

Worse for whom? The Ukraine gov is in a position to save it’s people, take the L and put in a neutral government. All these are good things.

I haven’t seen a soul legitimately attempt to defend Putin in toto. I’ve argued his actions were justified from his perspective and are a direct, warned and predictably reciprocate action.

Again, pointing out a failure of policy and blaming the USG/NATO/EU for fomenting this does NOT excuse any side.

5JC

Gosh, invoking John Prine. I can’t imagine what it would be like if you actually did care. In all the hub bub I missed my flag waving. Were was that again?

Roh-Dog

Flag waving by proxy via defense of NATO is my critique. Do you feel that is unearned?

By invoking a ‘both sides’ argument the attempt is to disabuse you of the notion it is both sides. One set of actions was from a internationally recognized government, the other from man-made demons. It’s hypocrisy and indefensible, all of it.

https://www.voanews.com/a/europe_un-report-human-rights-violations-permeate-conflict-eastern-ukraine/6208123.html

5JC

NATO is not the US. And as I pointed out the other day, NATO has yet to ever start a war. The US OTOH starts wars all.the time.

Roh-Dog

“Mostly peaceful no-fly zones (with civilian casualties) and involvement in armed internal conflicts with arms”, by choice =/= war.

I got it now.

Pardon me whilst I ‘peacekeeping’ the fuk outta my local jewelry store, it’ll be justified if they throw hands at each other.

5JC

No idea who you are quoting but it ain’t me.

USMC Steve

But at least those administrations knew what they were doing. The mental midgets in this one have not a clue.

5JC

While I agree, Dawg was soap box moralizing. When you invade say… the Philippines and launch a genocidal campaign there to make a few bucks that isn’t very moral.

Quartermaster

They could not have negotiated their way out of Putin relighting his 2014 invasion. Putin demanded surrender and things that no sovereign power could possibly give up. Surrender was the first step. Then giving away territory rightfully their (Donbas and Crime), Demilitarizing (with Russia as a neighbor? yeah sure).

In short, Putin is an idiot, not to mention a fascist through and through.

You don’t negotiate national existence, and Putin is out to end that.

5JC

But Mushmouth talked about all the great stuff he was doing for the Ukraine for like 20 minutes during the SOTU address. At least I think he did. Maybe he was saying how much he hated them and wanted them all to die fiery deaths?

That is the last time they ever pay off the son of a sitting VP.

jeff LPH 3 63-66

How come it’s oky doky to give the Ukraines all sorts of munitions/hand held rockets etc but jets are not?????????

5JC

The most obvious issue is how to get them there. If they take off from a NATO country and then engage in combat over Ukraine that makes the NATO country a combatant.

Driving them there would invite numerous air strikes on evacuation routes.

jeff LPH 3 63-66

Got it 5JC, Thanyou

MI Ranger

Not to mention the folks at the US State Department can’t even get on the same page. Blinken briefs from forward (Sunday) that yes it is being negotiated…the Deputy says on a US talk show the following morning (Monday) that she doesn’t think it is possible.

SgtBob

Poland gives all its Mig-29s to Ukraine. US replaces MiGs with F-16s, leaving Poland with a bunch of unqualified fighter pilots. US then pays to bring all those pilots here and pays all training costs. Sounds like a (Biden) plan.

KoB

Yep, all about bleeding the American Taxpayer a little more. Oh…and this mostly peaceful incursion? Good headline changer for the nefarious politicians that are using the people a pawns in the end game of domination. Notice that Bat Flu and Durham Report is MIA from news feeds? Imagine that.

Odie

Isn’t Ukraine Washington’s favorite money laundering country anyway? Pelosi offered 10 billion but mitch McConnell thought 15 billion a better number.

Seems both parties have decided 1.5 TRILLION is a much better number.

Don’t forget 10% for the big guy.

I wonder if tar and feathers are still an affordable commodity.

KoB

Spot on Odie. Trying not to let my blood pressure get too high reading the headlines on the 1.5 trillion bill released at 0Gawd30 in the morning. Some highlights are the 40mil for Venezuela, some millions for Cuba AND Russia, more millions for gender studies in Pakistan…the list goes on. Thursdays are for cooking recipe may include chicken feather soup. Is broken pieces of asphalt roadway still considered tar? That stuff is everywhere. We can use that.

Odie

Mea culpa. 1.5 trillion is to keep federal agencies operating thru the end of the year. Calander or fiscal is the question

13.6 billion in Ukraine aid carved out of the 1.5T.

And yeah, we quit buying oil from Russia, and are in talks with Venezuela. Doesn’t Russia have their hands in Venezuela oil companies?

KoB

Fiscal year, and yes it passed the house a few minutes ago. Lots of pork for all of the piggies in the District of Criminals to slop on. 2700 pages released with NO time to read it before the bill.

And yes, the Ruskkies are neck deep into the Venezuela Oil “Company” and yes, Venezuela owes Russia Billions.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-passes-bill-offering-nearly-14-billion-in-aid-to-ukraine

Mick

Part I

I’m noting that while all of the breathless “aviation experts” are jibber-jabbering on and on about the political implications of Polish MiG-29s potentially being handed over to Ukraine, very few of those “experts” are addressing the “elephant in the room” of the very significant aircraft maintenance/logistical problems that will be served up fresh, hot, and steamy to the Ukrainians if this transfer of Polish MiG-29s actually takes place.

From what I know, those Polish aircraft have undergone continual Western (NATO) upgrades to their engines, avionics, weapons systems, etc., in order for them to be kept in a viable flying/fighting condition that would actually benefit the Poles if they were ever to be employed against the Russians with a chance of succeeding in combat. I’ve also heard that the cockpits have been upgraded to Western standards (Russian cockpit ergonomics have always been notoriously shitty).

(Part II follows)

Mick

Part II

So the question is: Who will maintain those Polish MiG-29s while they’re being operated by Ukraine, and where will the required logistical support (e.g. compatible spare parts) come from? It won’t be Ukraine.

Consider these points. Will Polish maintenance personnel deploy covertly into Ukraine in order to support these MiG-29s? Will Poland supply the Ukrainians with spare parts via the US? Will aircraft requiring routine maintenance have to fly back into Poland or Germany to be serviced? What happens when aircraft become unflyable due to lack of maintenance (and yes, that is in fact WHEN they become unflyable, not IF they become unflyable)?

If those aircraft go to Ukraine, regardless of the political/diplomatic contortions over who will ultimately hand them over to Ukraine or how they get there, in my opinion this will end up just being yet another useless “feel good” operation that will only be giving Ukraine a couple of squadrons of inevitable “hangar queens”.

5JC

I think the plan is that they don’t last long enough to worry about maintenance. Kind of like WWII bombers.

Roh-Dog

Which ones?

Mick

Every T/M/S aircraft requires a maintenance turnaround and servicing before/after every flight.

Aircraft aren’t like automobiles; you don’t just “turn the key”, start them up, and then go flying them around continually until a maintenance issue arises.

The Ukrainians won’t be able to fly these aircraft in order to lose them in combat (as you and 5JC postulate) if they can’t even maintain them well enough to launch them in the first place.

AW1Ed

Logistics over strategy once again. The parts and maintenance issue had occurred to me, as well as commonality of weapon systems.
While the -29 is an intimidating aircraft, especially sitting off one’s wing when flying over the Med, without weapons and pilots trained in their use they may as well be on static display.

Mick

Shack.

TheCloser

polands-plan-give-us-its-fleet-of-mig-fighter-jets-ukraine-blindsides-american-officials.html

“The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Government, are ready to deploy — immediately and free of charge — all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America,” Poland’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a press release.

Additionally, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki told reporters that “there were some logistical questions — important ones — that were still under discussion about where those planes would take off from and land.”

Who will fly them?… seems like an important question.

TheCloser

Continued…

‘In return for supplying the U.S. the MiG-29s, Poland asked for U.S. fighter jets of a similar capability in return — which would likely mean the F-16 Fighting Falcons, a system the country already is trained on.
“Poland is ready to immediately establish the conditions of purchase of the planes,” the Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced. “The Polish Government also requests other NATO Allies — owners of MIG-29 jets — to act in the same vein.”‘

So free, trade, or purchase?

Whichever it is, it sounds so stupid that sleepy Joe just might go for it.

David

Poland BORDERS Ukraine. If they want to give them to Ukraine, they can just send ’em direct. Ain’t gonna piss off the Russians any more.

Quartermaster

That simple fact makes me wonder if the Poles want to give them. At first they didn’t want to because they have no replacements. they wanted F-16s, which is fine. The 18 would be a good choice as well.

It’s sad we can’t give the Ukrainians a wing of A-10s. But they don’t know how to use them, and don’t have the maintenance base. As pointed out earlier, they might not be able to handle the Polish Migs.

Sapper3307

The U.S will chop those MIGS in half first chance it gets. Better put Polish/German guards on them.

11B-Mailclerk

Soros heavily supports Ukraine.

He has a well-established track record of making his billions taking “short” positions on national currencies. These pay off Bigly when a currency crashes.

Like Russia’s currency is crashing.

He vultured his way to survival helping the Nazis. He didn’t improve with age. I wonder who he paid off to get this invasion presented to RusPutin as a Good Idea.

And I suspect China had a big role in egging RusPutin into the invasion – “sure Comrade! We have your back! Go!” They expected us to wind up fighting Russia, and China wins Bigly no matter who loses that fight, especially if both lose.

The one thing DEMentia Joe is doing right is staying out of that war. And he will f### that up too, like everything else he and the Donks touch.

The Brandon admin screwed the pooch over the Poland Mig issue: Flip-flop-fustercluck! Just watch! Bigger incoming.

But “Never Trump!” Right? WW3 will be a small price to pay to keep the RINO-Donk grift going.

rgr769

Ace at aceofspadeshq.mu has unlocked what is going on with the Brandon gang’s 180 on the Polish Mig 29’s. The Brandon gang want the Poles to unilaterally provide the Mig’s so that the US can claim Art. V doesn’t apply if Putin attacks Poland in response.

5JC

The damn illuminati lizard people are at it again. I told them not to clone Brandon. We all saw Multiplicity. We know what happens when you make a copy of a copy.

Roh-Dog

Doesn’t make it not true. Just a scant quarter ago, Satan’s own ‘investment management corporation’ (read: one of the dotgov’s puppet masters), BlackRock and it’s soulless leader Larry “ESG or bust” Fink went balls-to-the-wall buying Russian stakes, to include a crapton of the Rusbank bonds.

I’ll buy you an ice cream if you can calculate their worth right now.

Rumor has it, BR’s Emerging Market desk took a 10% hit. Add to this, JP Morgan had to bail out a bunch of idiots that got hammered shorting Russo-originating materials.

Given what I know about banks and the history of making money during conflict, sometimes by funding both sides, Vladaddy just shit in a whole lotta cheerios and they’ll be looking for some serious payback

11B-Mailclerk

Vlad the Mad better have a pretty big and effective conventional haymaker to throw, or Russia is done as a “great power”. Their opponents are making them look weak and dumb, whatever the reality might be.

Ukraine is effectively a Mouse That Roared if they just survive this in some semblance of remainder. Russia may have problems leaving Ukraine, as a bunch of Redcoats learned on the way back from concord.

I suspect Ukraine is getting help from China, via minions. (Like the ” FSB” Intel leaks.) Because the big prize for China is not Taiwan, but is Siberia.

And if Russia and the USA can be baited into a stupid war, China can get both.

KoB

Nailed it!

Quartermaster

Given the utter incompetence of Biden’s regime, I’d say they won’t get to Ukraine.