US Marines reluctantly let a Sikh officer wear a turban. He says it’s not enough
1st Lieutenant Sukhbir Toor
From the Times of India;
Almost every morning for five years, 1st Lt. Sukhbir Toor has pulled on the uniform of the U.S. Marine Corps. On Thursday, he also got to put on the turban of a faithful Sikh.
It was a first for the Marine Corps, which almost never allows deviations from its hallowed image, and it was a long-awaited chance for the officer to combine two of the things he holds most dear.
“I finally don’t have to pick which life I want to commit to, my faith or my country,” Toor, 26, said in an interview. “I can be who I am and honor both sides.”
His case is the latest in a long-running conflict between two fundamental values in the U.S. military: the tradition of discipline and uniformity, and the constitutional liberties the armed forces were created to defend.
While Sikh troops in Britain, Australia and Canada have long worn turbans in uniform, and scores of Sikhs do so now in other branches of the military, Toor’s turban is the first in the 246-year history of the Marine Corps. For generations, the Marine Corps has fought any change to its strict appearance standards, saying that uniformity was as essential to a fighting force as well-oiled rifles.
The Marine Corps has made the allowance only to a point. Toor can wear a turban in daily dress at normal duty stations, but he cannot do so while deployed to a conflict zone, or when in dress uniform in a ceremonial unit, where the public could see it.
Toor has appealed the restrictive decision to the Marine Corps commandant, and he says that if he does not get a full accommodation, he will sue the Marines.
More at the source.
TURD detected in the punchbowl.
Generally promotion to 1st Lieutenant is a two year perfect attendance award. How is this guy a 5 year 1 lt who according to the article has been wearing the uniform almost daily for 5 years?
Is he a mustang? That might be it.
Might.
Captain/O3 at 4 years, usually (if not sooner with a war or shortage going on). This discussion/disagreement could’ve been delaying things.
Quota promotion is failing him, he better up his game with that lawsuit.
He’s a Captain select, been in 4 years as of this past August. He’s just waiting for his number just like the rest of his peers.
It’s clear he joined just to make a point or to be an activist. IF he was truly interested in serving he’d honor his commitment to the Corps and country. He isn’t interested in that.
All vets served. We all put up with things about the military we aren’t crazy about or had us conform to uniform or grooming standards that made us a cohesive team and were for survival on the battlefield.
We still served.
Speaking of grooming standards, I’m pretty sure that Sikhs all have very long hair under that turban. I wonder if the LT has a high and tight.
Don’t push it, laughing boy. You can always be asked to leave the corps. Then you can practice your religious freedom all day long, anywhere and everywhere, and not have to worry about uniformity.
True dat. Officers serve at the pleasure and convenience of the President. And if he could not be a Sikh unless he was wearing his turban, then he was doing it wrong anyway.
Apparently no one properly explained to him that when you enter the Marines, you surrender most of your civil rights.
Do not flaunt your religious, sexual, political or any other personal feelings while in uniform. We are all the same and have the same job to do. WE ARE ALL THE SAME!!! You know the rules when you volunteered. If you don’t like it…get out OR NEVER GET IN!!!
Does this apply to the Christian whose car has a bumper sticker with a Bible quote? Or the heterosexual who bring his wife / her husband to Family Day? How about the retiree with a Veterans for Trump baseball cap?
If you’re not prepared to tell these people to stop flaunting, then I expect you to take that same attitude toward this Sikh Marine. I find it amusing that so many here are so obnoxiously loud about your own religion and politics, yet you get all snowflakey about a discreet expression of a religion that is different from yours. We all know your true motivation here – racism. No, no…don’t bother protesting. You know it’s true.
Own 👏 Your 👏 Shit. 👏👏👏
Aw, fuck. Here comes the, “Anything I don’t like is racism!” crowd.
For the record, YES, people can and have been told to remove political stickers, put their crucifixes inside their uniforms where it can’t be seen, and to leave their descriptions of how they get their freak on at home. Veterans for Trump? After EAOS, who gives a shit?
Own yours, dog whistle boy.
I had to remove a sticker that said “Defeat the dope smoking draft dodger in 96″. I knew it was wrong when I put it on, I knew I was eventually gonna get busted. Best part was how hard the battalion commander was laughing when he told me to take it off: SGT D, I agree with it 100%, but you know we can’t do that. Make it go away.” I saluted smartly and commenced peeling.
Its close to racism, but more of xenophobic/jingoist brainwash shit that happens around here.
He does have a point, some of you people are fickle as fuck. Especially when it comes to non-american/non-american non-white people.
racism
noun
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
The belief that each race has distinct and intrinsic attributes.
xenophobia
noun
A fear of strangers or foreigners.
A strong antipathy or aversion to strangers or foreigners.
a fear of foreigners or strangers
jingoism
noun
Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.
Guilty. I am an American chauvinist who believes there is no capability to be excessive about it, who has a strong antipathy or aversion to strangers or foreigners, even the ones whom are citizens of this country, yet lick the boots and fingers of this government. And the race of Americans is bearers of an indelible mark of mind and heart, where it’s main characteristic is the desire to live free and unencumbered lives.
And?
So I was right..thanks?
No, you weren’t. The facts of the situation do not support your silliness. There is no racism or xenophobia at work here.
You’re funny. Do you do stand up or just post dumb shit here for the lolz?
I’m going to posit and declare warning for your ilk; if you accuse a man a monster, you hasten the day he becomes one.
I like my civility, and willing to slap hoes back to’it.
Where’s my baby powder?!
Usually the ones who cry racism and bring race into debates are the racists.
Nice try, though.
And a retiree’s ballcap and a bumper sticker on a car are different than the uniform you wear in the service of your country and conforming to the regulations as required by ALL in uniform. Are you really this stupid, or just playing?
Why Yes Mr. Xyzzy it does!
All personnel in the military are instructed to refrain from disparaging comments on their personal vehicles. Note I said personal vehicles. If the Marines (or Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard, or even our newest brethren the Space Force) wanted everyone to be uniform when they come and go to their place of duty, they would issue us a vehicle.
If you are disparaged by someone saying to love one another, no matter their faults, or to forgive others for how they have wronged you perhaps you have some other issues, than just your faith or lack there of!?
Dude, you need to shut the fuck up. You’re almost as bad as Lars. While I have no problem with a Sikh wearing a turban in uniform, I’m Army, not a Marine; their service, their rules. Also a bumper sticker ain’t the same thing as a clothing item. If you’re too stupid to see the difference, you can fuck off. Oh, by the way, I’m a “minority” so don’t try the race card, you useless shitstick.
It’s a uniform.
Last time I was in boots for uncle scam Christians could wear one religious implement around their neck, so long as it was tucked in and didn’t obstruct the wear and appearance of..,what’s that thing called again….
Oh yeah! UNIFORM!!!
The standard was fine. You sign the line, you ride the ride (muh vaxxine!!).
Also, Chaplins only wore items during services.
This all being said by someone who was vehemently atheist/agnostic while serving but noted the care carved out in Regs to serve both King and God.
You’re just a blind egalitarian prick, just like the other two dickless fuckheads here. Get bent.
You are being stupid again. Your examples have nothing to do with someone demand preferential treatment. To answer your rather ridiculous question, no it does not apply to any of those people you cite. None of them are on active duty in the Marine Corps. He is.
Fuck your expectations, develop some common sense.
Five years as an 1st Lt? Counter-sue for lack of progress in rank.
Not really getting the sense of a team player who respects other team members… or chain of command.
Just imagine if Sikhs objected to getting covid exaggerations. Then, Biden would insist on a dishonorable discharge for failure to follow a general order. Unless… having a turban and specious beliefs exempts some, for reasons that may or may not be stipulated.
Biden’s insistence to take the fake vaccine is not a legal order. Recall the anthrax fiasco. A court ordered the military to stop the vaccinations when some of the troops sued the military. We have the same situation here. One article I read stated the fake vaccines are killing two people for every one saved, and I have serious doubts about the one.
Isn’t it interesting that his religious rights demand others do things for him?
Weird how that works.
What’s next, a Battalion of ‘Morlockians’ who because of their ‘religious convictions’; wear magic underwear, have multiple wives, promoted on hours and money spent at the temple, all weighted against the whiteness of their skin?
(I’m sorry for using a CofLDS-like object for these examples, but they’re charges that have been levied at the Church and known by most. Again, deepest apologies if this offends)
You missed an opportunity for humor.
You could have used the Moorlocks from the Time Machine movie or the original story, then made some blurry link to The Left.
So, once again, the many must bend to the will of the few, or they’ll sue. Where does this sense of entitlement come from?
Time to shitcan this turd.
I hope his unit has a rigorous Mask Confidence Exercise program. I bet going to the gas chamber with that beard is a real bitch.
A glob of Vaseline is all that’s needed for an acceptable seal with a beard. Most of us Hosers can have a beard in uniform.
I am used to seeing Sikhs in uniform. They have a long, proud history of service with British Empire/Commonwealth militaries. In fact, the Sikhs and Gurkhas were the only native troops that remained universally loyal during the 1857 Mutiny.
You will not use any Vaseline in our gas chamber dude. Even if you did smear your face with it, part of the chamber is taking the mask off. Guess what happens when the gas hits and sticks to that crap on your face?
And he could not get a seal with that humonguous rag on his head anyway. As to Sikh’s serving in the former Commonwealth, where did that get you? Look at what is left of it now.
Ain’t the fault of the Sikh.
Historically them dudes could fight.
Too bad they got a little too ‘i need orders to roll’ during Mogadishu, but to your point, i think the ‘glory of the commonwealth’ attitude as fucked them up a bit.
SOON!
I’m not going to shit on Sikhs in general because they are usually good people. However, he knew the USMC dress code, so its on him to conform to The Marines and NOT The Marines to conform to him. If I’m in his command, he’s NEVER allowed to invoke The Corps history or tradition. He chose his tradition over that of The Corps and “One cannot serve two masters”
When the service allows guys to go parading in uniform wearing red high heels, it really can’t object to this guy wanting to wear a bonnet with his uniform. Either a uniform is a uniform is a uniform or it’s not. Applies to all, or not. The services established awhile back that “uniform” does not apply to all equitably. This variation upon a theme is the inevitable result. There will be many more.
YOu ain’t going to see that in the Corps. So it is a non issue and a red herring argument. If the rest of the military insists on going to woke shit, that is fine. You are looking at a group here that has pretty much kicked Progress’s ass for 245 years.
Where’s the red herring? Either “uniform” applies to all, or it doesn’t. Pretty simple. Doesn’t matter if the issue is a religious something or another, brown patent leather combat boots, diamond encrusted dog tags, or something else entirely.
Much as you might wish to believe otherwise, the Corps is not exempt from all this woke nonsense. The Corps has been lucky so far. Perhaps because its numbers are relatively small, so allowing them to kind sorta carry on as usual is not a huge threat. According to family members who are in positions to know such things, wokeness is indeed alive and surviving (but not thriving) in the Corps. Maybe they are wrong and you know more about what’s going on in the upper echelons than they do, but I doubt it. I am very glad that they continue to fight the good fight on behalf of you and every other Marine who doesn’t deserve to put up with all the crap others are forced to endure.
You seem to have mistaken “slow to woke” for “non woke”.
Look at the last 20 years, and tell me the Marines are not on the same course, just lagging the rest.
That “a few good men” thing didn’t last.
To be fair to the Jarheads, they always make do with hand-me-downs 20 years out of date.
Does the shaving profile come with? How can he don a protective mask? I’m missing something.
They always say they “can get the mask on” but wont go into a CS chamber prove that it will work.
I love /SARC, when people join an organization and then try to change it to suit them.
I remember when we were “all green”
As someone who has known faithful Sikhs, he is not a faithful Sikh. He may as well throw his turban away. The purpose of the turban is to keep his uncut hair neat. The faithful also do not cut their facial hair. Not to mention the other four Ks.
http://www.discoversikhism.com/sikhism/hair.html
Will he carry his Kirpan (dagger) in uniform?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R1qVaJ6dG0
Very peaceful.
“Dumbfounded”
I agree. But I’d say you’re more ‘idiotfounded’, but that’s just me.
Hey Lars, this guy wants his ‘religious accommodations’!!!!!
ItS HIs COmAtooShuNaLL RiGHts!!!
Well, fuckface, I AGREE with him in theory: “the Right of the People to keep and Bear Arms shall not be infringed” or something.
I have a right to medical treatment, I have a script for an emotional support Glock. Suck my balls.
If you want to wear a turban in uniform, join the Indian Marines!
Boom!
Logic ain’t really a tool of clowns such as these.
Don’t diss the Sikhs. They make very good soldiers. They fought faithfully for the British for more than 100 years. And the British repaid them by dividing their homeland down the middle and giving half to the Mohammadens of Pakistan and half to the Hindus of India. A lesson for those who care to learn.
https://www.themysteriousindia.net/sikh-soldiers-forgotten-heroes-of-wwi/
Since you replied to me, I request you point to the words I used that ‘diss’ed the Sikhs.
I’ll wait.
You called them “clowns”, asshole.
Wearing a Turban is part to the deeply held religious beliefs of all devout Sikhs.
Not just this guy.
Like you and Marxism, for example.
Like you and Marxism, for example.”
Touché…😜😜😜
Yeah, the implication of anyone who wants to deviate from uniform standards as clowns, I never mentioned or implied a bias against Sikh.
Y’all put that intentionality on my words, clown.
Clearly there are Sikhs who serve and use logic regarding suspensions of religious talisman.
Then there are ‘these people’, which is inclusive to all, not exclusive to the turban-wears, or whatever.
See, reading is fundamental, racist shithead.
The only clown in this discussion is you.
You have no issue with religious protections and accommodations when Christians are getting them.
In some training environments or courses you are not allowed any outside books or other reading material EXCEPT the Bible and similar religious texts.
Why the exception?
If the services banned all jewelry in uniform including necklaces with the crucifix you think those demanding the right to wear a cross or crucifix on a chain are being clowns?
If they banned wedding rings in uniform would you think people claiming it violates their deeply held religious beliefs that require a married person wear their ring are being clowns?
There is literally no good reason to allow jewelry in uniform except religious accommodations. Why the hell does a soldier need to wear a gold chain in uniform? Or any rings? Or anything pretty, shiny, or flashy?
Necklaces and rings hook on things. And many necklaces are not designed to break like dog tag chains.
Jewelry in uniform is a liability. There is no good reason to allow it.
Except for religious accommodations.
So the recent decision by Big Army to allow female Soldiers to wear earrings in uniform is a religious accommodation? Explain.
Commie-czar-ZEK snivels: September 27, 2021 at 1:37 pm – The only clown in this discussion is you. Ass-clown that you are, YOU would know.. – You have no issue with religious protections and accommodations when Christians are getting them. THIS coming from the Commie-czar-ZEK who only worships himself and what his beloved State tells him to.. – In some training environments or courses you are not allowed any outside books or other reading material EXCEPT the Bible and similar religious texts. Got to call BULL-SHIT on that one but it’s good to see you still rock’n out bad spelling with no apparent syntax.. – Why the exception? Is that even a REAL question? – If the services banned all jewelry in uniform including necklaces with the crucifix you think those demanding the right to wear a cross or crucifix on a chain are being clowns? Well Commie-czar-ZEK, if you possessed one speck of even the most fundamental aspect of literacy, you would’ve found – 10 U.S. Code § 774 – Religious apparel: wearing while in uniform: a) General Rule.— Except as provided under subsection (b), a member of the armed forces may wear an item of religious apparel while wearing the uniform of the member’s armed force. (b) Exceptions.—The Secretary concerned may prohibit the wearing of an item of religious apparel— (1) in circumstances with respect to which the Secretary determines that the wearing of the item would interfere with the performance of the member’s military duties; or (2) if the Secretary determines, under regulations under subsection (c), that the item of apparel is not neat and conservative. (c) Regulations.— The Secretary concerned shall prescribe regulations concerning the wearing of religious apparel by members of the armed forces under the Secretary’s jurisdiction while the members are wearing the uniform. Such regulations shall be consistent with subsections (a) and (b). (d) Religious Apparel Defined.— In this section, the term “religious apparel” means apparel the wearing of which is part of the observance of the religious faith practiced by the member. – If they banned wedding rings in uniform would you think… Read more »
Then they can go do that in the Royal Sikh Army or whatever. He knew when he enlisted what was permissible and not, and now, five years in, he is making waves simply because he can.
“Asshole”..? Says Commie-czar-ZEK, the FRAUD..
Faint praise to be defended by Commissar.
By “clowns such as these” I presumed you meant American Sikhs in general. If you did not mean that, I apologize.
As with all religions, there are Jack Sikhs as well as Jack Mormons. And Sunday Christians, but the Sikhs have no special day.
See my above and below. It’s all individuals who vie to stand out, for any reason.
The nation is not served by irrational accommodations.
Ok, let’s end all religious accommodations then.
Because religious faith based beliefs are by definition irrational.
Faith is not subject to the criteria of rationality.
You really are this stupid or you pulling my leg?
You’re allowed to attend services as mission dictates. That’s the way it’s been, and that’s MORE than enough, which also is the minimum the services CAN do.
Stop reaching to get this crap accepted. It’s ghey.
You apparently don’t understand what it means to have faith in something.
By. Definition. Irrational.
If you had sufficient rational justification to believe something it would not require faith.
I irrationally believe you exist, but I’m confident there’s sufficient rational justification to believe you a bitch.
UNIFORM STANDARD.
Don’t like it, don’t serve.
Also, since our gov has gone past authoritarian, I’d councle any young buck to avoid your tranny-lovin’, female combat arm’ing, illegal gene coding group of shock troops known as the military.
But you, you should go back. Fuck, they’d probably make you the Commanding General of the BLM Division.
Blah-tor and the Roh-Dog
I can hear the guitar riffs from here…
Lol.
“Roh-Dog… is Victorious!. The shores of the This Ain’t Hell …..are saved again!”
Marxism can’t have any competition, you know.
Are Mormons allowed to wear their magic underwear?
Had a roomie that was LDS, pretty serious about it. Didn’t drink hot beverages (I didn’t know that was a thing).
I can confirm he did not wear the special unders, which I inquired about. His response that they were generally impractical and for the truly religious or special occasions.
When asked if he wore them during his wedding I was told to shut up, and out of respect I left it alone.
He is a good dude so I’d offer him hot coffee every morning, with a grin. Still to this day I’d gladly take a bullet for that man.
I always thought that having someone who was LDS in your Platoon pretty much guaranteed having a sober Designated Driver on partying weekends!
Its all about me.
…It’s NEVER enough. It’s called a UNIFORM, because everyone looks the same. What is so hard for everyone to understand about that?
Maybe he ought to add a string or 3 of June Cleaver pearl necklaces. You know, so he’ll have something to clutch.
Where does it end? Oh…wait…It doesn’t. Chesty Puller is a’spinnin’, somebody go reset his headstone, it’s all caddy whompus.
Motherfucker will drop that turban quick when slimed.
I just hope is fast enough to get the pro mask on w/ seal.
Oh, wait, a shaving profile to boot.
They may be tough fighters as pointed out above, but this dude is a useless turd in the field.
Stick him down in the bowels on the Pentagon as some coffee / errand boy and let him sue the Marines from there.
Curious as to Austin’s take on this clown wanting more?
He can’t wear the turbine when it effects the mission or safety.
That is established in both the law and DoD directives.
*Turban.
Actually, your first iteration was funnier.
Awesome mental image. Like a prop beanie, but bigger and faster.
Way funnier.
“affect.”
Like Ben Affect. 😀 😀 😀
He’ll really get wound up wearing the turbine…😂😂😂
Just so everyone is abundantly clear on the absolute fuckery in the military, and by extrapolation our ‘government’, this:
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/04/25/this-soldier-just-got-authorization-to-wear-a-beard-because-of-his-norse-pagan-faith/
“Heathens” indeed. To arrest charges that I may have a bias to brown-skinned individuals, or those of a non-Christain faith, I assure you that my hate for all of humanity is evenly distributed amongst all strata, real or perceived.
So suck it.
I heard about this.
Just some soft shoe shitbags trying to get over on the system.
Doubt they get any pussy as well.
Hack Stone worked with a Jewish LtCol on Quantico who wore a yarmulke while wearing his Charlies. Never recalled seeing him wearing it while in Alphas or cammies.
Marine Corps reluctantly follows the constitution.
Outrage ensues among right wingers who hate when that happens.
Except that whole thing where we can freely discriminate the overweight, near sighted/far sighted, sunken chested, too much ear wax, flat feet……
Yep, we can.
If you want to claim being religious is the same as being disabled, or that being religious is the same as being medically unfit to serve than let’s have that discussion.
I might be persuaded.
I don’t need to persuade you.
It’s not a RIGHT to serve, and the military doesn’t have to accommodate anyone. They offer exemptions/accommodations when it doesn’t interfere with good order and discipline.
He does have a right to serve…it is derived from the equal protections clause of the constitution. The government must treat all citizens equally under the law and can only deviate from that requirement when it has sufficient cause to justify it.
The government cannot arbitrarily decide who can and cannot serve.
There must be good health and safety, national security, or order and discipline reasons why someone is barred from service.
DoD directives require religious accommodations when it does not undermine the mission, undermine order and discipline, or undermine the safety of troops.
Sikhs are allowed to wear Turbans as long as it does none of those things and only when it does none of those things.
In most situations during normal duty the Turban does not undermine the mission, health and safety, national security, or good order and discipline.
In combat or most high risk operations he is required to wear a helmet. In places where the Turban is unsafe he is required to wear the proper headgear for health and safety.
These are not unreasonable accommodations.
“Sikhs are allowed to wear Turbans“
Agreed! On their own time or at a time outlined for religious practice while on duty/deployed.
Stop being obtuse. You know this is a grandstand to get unwarranted accommodations. This prick had a choice, signed the dotted line and now wants to pitch a fit.
I morn the formerly rigid uniform standards of the military and the Corps.
No, he doesn’t have the RIGHT to serve. He has the OPPORTUNITY, as long as he follows the prescribed guidelines set forth in prescribed doctrine of that respective service. Hence why the military can deny service based off a whole RANGE of factors including physical, mental, moral, and any other arbitrary manner they deem (i.e.: tattoos).
Which is why the Marine Corps can decide someone who has a tattoo on their forearm is no longer….stay with me here, ELIGIBLE FOR SERVICE.
Joe Q Student cuts a 85 on the ASVAB. Passes a physical, no moral disqualifications….and yet, the recruiting districts just said “NOPE!”….all because the kid has a tattoo on his wrist.
The government….just arbitrarily….decided who could, or couldn’t serve. Wild…I know.
What’s next for Lt Soor? Is he going to demand to be able to wear a Kirpan in uniform? Its one of the tenants of his faith, after all….
Jay, he does have a right. The fact that banning someone from serving cannot be arbitrary must be in the interests of the government and must be in accordance with equal protections are all because he has a right to serve.
And those with tattoos in places that violate uniform standards are not ineligible for service. They are only ineligible until they remove the tattoo.
Can you see how courts my decide it is reasonable for the military to expect a recruit to remove a tattoo but unreasonable to expect a recruit to remove a deeply held religious belief?
We afford special protections to religious beliefs. Despite the fact that the first amendment applies to both religion and speech and tattoos are a form of expression.
The military has a long history of restricting free expression in the military. The government has little difficulty meeting the burden of proof required in court to show it is necessary to limit many forms of free expression in the military.
The courts, and arguably the constitution, expect a higher burden of proof for the military to limit religious expression.
The fact that the military has to meet these burdens of proof for the necessity of these standards is because people otherwise have a right to serve due to the fact that others are being afforded the the right to serve and without sufficient justification for them being denied the military is violating the equal protections clause by not allowing them to serve.
Who’s to say Johnny High School’s tattoos don’t have a specific religious meaning? Who are WE to judge a ‘devout religious affiliation?’
Once we get down that slippery slope, then EVERYONE is looking for a ‘loophole’ to exploit…which is why we set standards to begin with. As arbitrary as they may be, no one has the RIGHT to serve in the military. Just because you WANT to, doesn’t mean you have the RIGHT to. He has the RIGHT to APPLY to serve…but they don’t have to extend the courtesy to have the privilege to serve. However, now that he stuck his foot in the door, he’s trying to ram the rest of his body through.
You didn’t answer my follow on question: What if in following with the beliefs of the Sikh faith, Lt Soor demands the accommodation to be allowed to carry a kirpan around, in uniform everyday? Should the Marine Corps then allow him to do that?
Nothing in the Constitution allows him to do this while serving in the Marine Corps. He has the right to do it outside of the Marine Corps, so if he really wants to wear the head rag, he can get the fuck out. He also needs to shitcan that non reg beard unless he has a no shaving chit.
Nobody has a right to serve.
You are correct, SFC D, and, as usual, know-it-all-Lars is dead wrong.
Here’s a 2017 quote from the former Deputy USAF JAG, MG Charles J. Dunlap:
“In fact, there has never been a constitutional right for anyone and everyone to serve in the armed forces.”
And this, “Lots of patriotic and talented people who want to join the military can’t. In fact, a whopping 71% of the 34 million Americans in the 17-24-year-old age group are ineligible for service for a variety of physical, mental, educational and behavioral reasons (and, according to the Wall Street Journal, ‘that doesn’t even include those turned away for tattoos or other cosmetic issues.’) And, of course, there are also what might be called ‘status’ disqualifiers (which might be legally intolerable in a civilian setting) such as the military’s maximum (and minimum) age limits as to who can join.”
Poe,
Wow, it’s almost as if the MG, like…had a DEGREE in LAW or something. Maybe he knows what he’s talking about….
I constantly told people when I was a recruiter the Military was about the only employer in the US that could legally discriminate in its hiring practices.
Nothing in the Constitution allows him to do this while serving in the Marine Corps. He has the right to do it outside of the Marine Corps, so if he really wants to wear the head rag, he can get the fuck out. He also needs to shitcan that non reg beard unless he has a no shaving chit.
The FACT that two monkeys fucked and produced you, Commie-czar-ZEK? Now THAT’S irrational…
If he requests a religious exemption for the vaccine….would they give it to him? Hmm….
They might.
They are required to make religious accommodations unless commanders can argue a compelling government, or national security interest.
And even if they do determine a compelling government, or national security interest at stake they need to apply the mandate with as little impact on faith as possible.
However, I think the compelling government or national security interest is a low bar in the case of a highly contagious virus spreading through a barracks.
Especially given that tens of thousands of troops have already been infected disrupting unit functions across the services. And nearly 50 active duty service members are dead.
NEARLY 50…out of an active force of 1.4 million.
Meanwhile 371 have died of suicide from 2nd Qtr 2020 to 1st Qtr 2021. Pretty sure those dead also have disrupted unit functions.
https://www.dspo.mil/Portals/113/Documents/2021QSRs/TAB%20A_20210621_OFR_Rpt_Q1%20CY%202021%20QSR.pdf?ver=6D4DcO326c0xAVIm_l83_g%3D%3D
Don’t bother him (zer?) with facts.
We have no idea what those SMs died from or if they had other conditions AND covAiDs.
But for safety, a bunch of health people need to get heart problems and nerve damage from a mandatory novel injectable medical instrument with no long term impact studies.
Imagine telling an Airborne Infantryman he’s a big puss for not wanting the shots, yet here we are.
Non sequitur.
Nope, Composite Risk Management.
If you were a Leader, you’d know.
But alas, like Hatchet say: you’re a fraud.
It is a non sequitur because we are talking about mandating a vaccines to protect troops from the spread of a virus.
If they invent a vaccine that prevents suicide the DoD will almost certainly mandate it.
You fucks twisting any comment into an excuse to attack my service is getting really fucking old.
My service was verified by the custodians of this site. No such scrutiny was applied to your service, was it?
Hatchet is a sniveling worm just trying to fit in and he thinks attacking my service is a path to doing that because he thinks attacking me is what all the cool kids do here.
No scrutiny can be applied to Hatchet’s “service” because he is anonymous and best I can tell his service was just an insufferably asshole of a kid his parents sent off to military school.
I didn’t bring your service into this. I was having a genuine discussion with you: You’re the one who followed the butterfly and got distracted.
The fact of the matter is even CDC data shows that appx 150,000 out of the 217K “covid associated hospitalizations” from March 2020 to Sept 18th 2021 were from the age group of 50+…..which will rule out almost EVERYONE from the military.
The US Military is a microcosm of the US population, who also tend to be the most IN SHAPE of the US population. If a virus, which has already been prevalent in a populace for over a year and a half, and has a proven survivability rate of 98.4%, and the average of the dead is proven to be OVER the age of the average service member (77% of the dead are aged 65 or above)….what is the rush to vaccinate the service for a virus that has virtually NO chance of harming…ANYONE in that service?
https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html
I was talking to Roh.
He commented in this discussion thread.
And attacked my service, despite the fact that he knows my service was verified.
Because he has no integrity and is just trying to score a few points with his tribe of nitwits like Hatchet and Infidel.
Jay, he was responding to me. I jumped in this, apologies for the highjack.
I’ll have you know, I don’t care what Hatchet or Infidel, or anyone, thinks about me.
You should avoid that suicide shot…. pro bono publico
I see….so once I drop some genuine knowledge supported by relevant data, he ghosts.
Fascinating.
Roh: I’ve already made that decision. I can read between lines and form my own opinion. That shot is NOT for me.
Major Moonbat is very devout in his chosen Religion, he’s a devout Branch Covidian!
Why must you keep bringing up your “verified service” when it’s irrelevant to the thread? Nobody cares! You served. Doesn’t make you any less of a fraud.
Apparently he thinks when someone calls him a “fraud” it’s in regards to his military bona fides and not, as it is clearly meant within context, a dig at his arguments.
He spends so very much time swatting the straw men he posts.
Ahh. Context. That thing that constantly escapes him, much like comprehension.
“…he thinks attacking me is what all the COOLER HEADS do here.”
There ya go, Lars, ol’ Poe fixed it for ya…
Waaah!
We average 80+ active duty dead every year from motorcycle accidents.
https://phc.amedd.army.mil/PHC%20Resource%20Library/MotorcycleInjuries_FS_12-010-0516.pdf
Remember when the Navy was considering banning Sailors from operating motorcycles to prevent deaths? May have been some time in the late 1990’s. Pepperidge Farm rememberers.
Pathetic twat…
You all realize the same constitutional and legal framework that gives Christianity so many carve outs and protections in this country applies to other faiths as well right?
Additionally, Trump era DoD protections, and the Republican led Restoration of Religious Freedom Act pretty much forced the Marine Corps to make this accommodation.
Prior to this the other serves had already made most of these adjustments…including the US navy.
Marine Corps was holding out, but it was clear they were going to lose in court. Especially given all the “restoration” of religious rights laws and orders that are now on the books.
*other services
Spell-check? Illiterate MORON..
Uniformity is part of discipline.
The fact you don’t understand this is indicative of a character flaw.
You don’t know what it means to serve, snowflake.
Strict uniformity for the sake of uniformity does not meet the undue burden standard.
And uniformity is not necessarily in the interests of the mission, the military, or even order and discipline.
Which is why not all branches have the same uniform, not all duty positions wear the same uniform, not all units have the same SoP for their uniform items and worn equipment, and special purpose and special operations organizations don’t put much emphasis on uniformity at all.
I guess special operators must now know what it means to serve because they don’t understand the importance of uniformity.
Lars argues, “Which is why not all branches have the same uniform, not all duty positions wear the same uniform, not all units have the same SoP for their uniform items and worn equipment, and special purpose and special operations organizations don’t put much emphasis on uniformity at all.”
Ol’ Poe has to wonder what part of “special” in special operations it is that you don’t get?
Also, your entire paragraph is specious reasoning because “within” those units there are requirements for uniformity with SPECOPS being the exception.
Commissar snivels:
September 27, 2021 at 1:49 pm
– Strict uniformity for the sake of uniformity does not meet the undue burden standard.
Example?
– And uniformity is not necessarily in the interests of the mission, the military, or even order and discipline.
Example?
– Which is why not all branches have the same uniform, not all duty positions wear the same uniform, not all units have the same SoP for their uniform items and worn equipment, and special purpose and special operations organizations don’t put much emphasis on uniformity at all.
BLAH BLAH BLAH. And still no FACTS to underpin your anything you say…
– I guess special operators must now know what it means to serve because they don’t understand the importance of uniformity.
Commie-czar-ZEK – you really should not speak about things you know absolutely nothing about(except maybe the comic books you constantly live in). FRAUD.
And your comment comes from a fuckwit that argues people shouldn’t get vaccinated during a national crisis. A crisis that ends when we have a sufficient vaccination rate across the nation to reach herd immunity.
I guess your willingness to put you country first ended when you left the military.
Did you ever understand what it means to serve?
.:yawn:. ya’done?
“And your comment comes from a fuckwit that argues people shouldn’t get vaccinated during a national crisis.”
-yes. guilty, 100% so. If you’re healthy, young, or generally think the cold is better than the shot, yeah, you have the choice. Talk to a Doctor, look at he data, make YOUR OWN CHOICE.
-And what “national crisis”? The one the government created by shutting down society and the resultant fallout? Sure. The cold-19? Naw, dawg.
“A crisis that ends when we have a sufficient vaccination rate across the nation to reach herd immunity.
-the genetic mod shot has very little to due with impacting the ‘herd immunity’. The shots are really just slowing down hospital impact by infection-harm reduction, but we don’t know if the shot will cause longterm complications (ADE, variant sensitivity, cancer, immuo diseases, etc).
The virus ain’t going anywhere, just like all the other colds out there. Only by infection, repeated often, does the immune system’s Ts and Bs ‘learn’. Your precious ain’t gonna do it. Sorry.
“I guess your willingness to put you country first ended when you left the military.”
-my country is populated by my ideological foes, why would I care about them? My oath wasn’t to the gov, was yours? We all get to choose how we live, so long as we don’t harm others. The shot is harmful to me, but I need to get it because yours won’t protect you…?
Do you see how mandates are retarded? It is at best a symptom mitigator, I have partial or full immunity, and EVEN IF I didn’t, theres horse paste.
“Did you ever understand what it means to serve?”
-No. I don’t understand anything. I need you and the gov to tell me what to do, what to think. Govern me harder, daddy!
You a bitch
I understand perfectly what it means to serve. It’s why I continue to serve as a front line worker to this day. I’ve served every single day for going on 25 years now both in uniform and out. I CHOOSE to put country first, as I continue to serve the citizens of my county.
I also CHOOSE whether to have a presidential EDICT forced upon me instead of having the choice of free will. It’s not hard to understand at all.
If YOU want to get vaccinated, go ahead and do it. At the same time, don’t tell me “It’s not about YOU, it’s about OTHER PEOPLE!!!”
The second I become one of the growing trend of people suffering from cardiomyopathy, blood clots, arrhythmia, and a growing trend of other health issues that could cause me to DIE from this ‘vaccine’….then it DOES become ‘about me’….because now my family now has to cope with the loss of me, and my income as I am the sole breadwinner for my family.
Commissar snivels:
September 27, 2021 at 1:53 pm
– And your comment comes from a fuckwit that argues people shouldn’t get vaccinated during a national crisis. A crisis that ends when we have a sufficient vaccination rate across the nation to reach herd immunity.
If you were actually LITERATE, you would’ve read and understood that ‘herd immunity’ is actually no longer possible.. I did say, IF you were LITERATE..
– I guess your willingness to put you country first ended when you left the military.
Says the little stunt-cunt with so-called ‘auto-immune issues’, a has-been that never really was…
– Did you ever understand what it means to serve?
It’s more than apparent that you don’t and never did, Commie-czar-ZEK..
Commissar Ninnyhammer will never stop babbling his propaganda, he considers it as intelligible and anyone who dissents with it is garbage.
So, my choice is O.K?
WOW, holy Shit, holy moly, and nothing jake, rough crowd on the site and I’m not too familiar with these regs so I’ll just get out a CD with the TURBANS singing When You Dance 1955 on the Herald label and if my friend Nettie didn’t move 10 minutes away, I would be over there dancing a mambo, cha cha, calypso or a span and the lights are turned down low and we go hand in hand.
Got it Jeff!
I was really hoping you were going to come in here and lay some Sikh puns down on us.
Sikh and you shall find.
And ol’ Poe was just about to note that Lars is making some pretty sikhly arguments…
Like the Branch Covidian he is. I will give him credit, he’s gone about a day without shitting his pants over Donald Trump!
General discharge for refusal/inability to conform to uniform regulations.
General Discharge = Shitbag.
Next thing you know he will demand to wear a scimitar.
Nip it in the bud…his bud.
I am going to take a break form this discussion.
The other services had already made accommodations for Sikh Turbans… all the other services. Including the Navy.
They would have lost in court. They were not even following the DOD directive implemented under Trump much less the Restoration of Religious freedom act.
[Removed]
We are all adults here. We can disagree without imploring each other to commit suicide.
-Mason
Roger that.
My appologies for breaking any rules.
I will self-censor from now on, let it be understood the volume and depth of my contempt for that POS.
Water under the bridge. 🙂
Sikh Help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kKvlv-IY7k
Have a good dinner with moms.
Off ya get and don’t let the door hit ya on the way out…
Thanks for flying TAH Airlines – BUH BYE!!
Anyone in the US military wearing spaghetti colanders?
You know… for their church & religion…
the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Pastafarianism?
Several US States have allowed spaghetti colanders on Driver’s Licenses.
Kid you not.
It’s all here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
The Loose Cannon is one of my most favoritest holy books.
Mason,
Apparently it works for
over the hill rode hard XXX porno queens
currently down on their luck.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/17/pastafarian-drivers-license/19200447/
First photo is her DWI booking photo, but no longer the goldfish of the pond. Caught her act on Bragg Blvd for one of the troops 21st birthdays .
Why is it that everyone in the porn industry is a “porn star”? They all can’t be the star. It’s like back in the 1990’s, when Geraldo Rivera would have Michigan Militia members on the show, and every one of them was a Colonel or a General.
As to (see what Hack did there?), for an Asian “porn star”, she is not much of a looker.
Hack Stone.
They’re not.
But some work hard (see what I did there?)
make a LOT of videos,
make money for those offscreen,
and the industry pumps them up with not so superstar status.
Just head over to the FU of Google,
and search “Asia Carrera XXX”.
(No linky here,
this is, after all, a respectable website.)
https://www.google.com
Isn’t there a song “I love my little colander girl”?
RGR 4-78,
Her newest tweet….
[No stolen valor here –
I earned my “Retired Porn Star” shirt the hard way! 😉 ]
https://twitter.com/asiacarrera
Principia Discordia is worth a read.
LOL
I have an image of him low crawling real sneaky-like through the weeds with a helmet stuck on top of that hairdo. Just like in a cartoon.