Geezers For Sitting On Our Hands freak out
How many of you have been gone to your local county fair every year and passed by the National Guard or recruiters’ booths where they had military stuff on display? Everyone right? Well, now all of a sudden, the Geezers For Sitting On Our Hands freak out over the same thing we’ve been seeing for decades – suddenly it’s immoral. Here’s the picture from the Juneau Empire that set their bony asses on fire;
Now the Juneau Empire has since taken the picture down from their website, but it was an article about Memorial Day events in Juneau. So, anyway, since the Geezers got outraged about the Army Experience Center, they’ve found a bit of fun in feigning outrage over every presence of the military outside of military bases. Leading the charge against the Juneau Empire’s editorial staff are mental giants like Ward Reilly;
I’d like to see Sergeant Michael Manson sitting behind the machine gun instead of helping children sit there… and then I’d like to shoot a few hundred rounds from another machine gun at his bullet screen, while the kids watch safely from someplace nearby.
Maybe then he would think twice before glorifying the act of sitting behind a machine gun to kids, without teaching the true ramifications of being an army gunner. The children wouldn’t EVER want to be there again. Shame on the National Guard for allowing this activity with our children.And this was at a “Safety Expo”?
Ward Reilly
U.S. Army Infantry and ex-gunner 1971-74
Nice sentiment, Ward. you claim that you were a soldier, yet you’d express this kind of profanity about shooting at a soldier for doing his job. I guess that’s what you can’t relate to – doing your job as a soldier. And they’re not “our children”, Ward. I’m pretty sure the kids’ parents were nearby and fully approved of this benign activity. It’s hardly the National Guard’s fault – it’s not like they snatched kids away from their parents and planted them behind the machinegun, is it? Even though you wish it had been like that. Shame on you, Ward Reilly, deserter and non-Ranger.
Ex-gunner, huh? Cute. I’ll bet I can name a lot of things that you’re ex-. But I’m pretty sure that the last time you and I emailed, you bragged that you were an 11C mortarman – hardly the kind of “gunner” that you’re trying to pass yourself off as…like that (Ranger) lie you try to tell.
Also John Grant expresses his false outrage;
So many opportunities for “personal growth.” Like a job in a depression — now, that’s a great opportunity. Can’t get work, hey, join the imperial centurians and go hunt down and kill kids out there on the fringes of empire in some place like Afghanistan where kids just like you can’t find a job either and have the opportunity for “personal growth” offered to them by some mullah & madrassa that does the work of our Army Experience Center or your local festival featuring cool Humvees and SAWs. Seems the world is full of opportunities for personal growth these days. Kurt Vonnegut summed it up best: And so it goes.
John Grant
Army Security Agency 1965-69, Vietnam 1966-67
Yeah, John, you’ve certainly built a career around having been in the service – why would you deny someone else the same opportunity? Do you hate your fellow citizens that much? Or are you just throwing up in your mouth?
Some actions, which can occur even during times of peace, could easily be considered war crimes. Perpetuating the culture of war is one of them. War is a sickness of our society that will not be cured until we stop glorifying it, until we stop sanitizing it, until we stop pretending it’s a game, and until we stop indoctrinating impressionable young people.
Kim Carlyle, President
Veterans For Peace Chapter 099
Western North CarolinaU.S. Army. 1966-69. Served in Alabama and Germany
Personally, I’d say that those idiots who flew planes into the WTC a few years back are “perpetuating the culture of war”, wouldn’t you? War doesn’t exist because we “glorify it”, it exists because people want to kill us. Luckily, for these bozos, there are people willing to defend them so they can shoot off their big, stupid mouths.
And those people are not as gullible as you might think. I used to play “Army” when I was a kid, along with my two brothers – I was the only one who joined the Army. So explain how my brothers avoided the same influence to which I succumbed. And how my son, who was surrounded by all things infantry all of his life, became an Air Force medic.
Category: Antiwar crowd, Usual Suspects
So Ward Reilly would like to shoot bullets at an American Soldier?
What a Cowardly piece of shit Ward Reilly is.
Ward, you should have been a Blowjob instead of born.
So many opportunities for “personal growth.” Like a job in a depression — now, that’s a great opportunity.
Hey, they could be hired to line funeral wreaths outside Walter Reed before Grant steps up to whine about imperialism.
Now that is character building.
I wonder what the old geezers reaction would be to the pictures I have of my toddler daughter riding around in a M113 or Bradley or attending live fire demonstrations in middle school that her daddy was participating in?
Maybe they would be shocked to learn that she actually liked to watch the Airborne guys during tower week.
Maybe they would be even more shocked to find out that now that is in her 20’s she still hasn’t gone on a wild shooting spree through the the local Hot Topic and she made it all the way through school without taking her classmates hostage.
Of course that might also be because she knows what weapons can do and she understands what the job of the military is, you know since she has first hand knowledge and all. Something a lot of the members of your group don’t have.
Funny how all the detractors spent just a few years in the army. I managed to spen 23 in the Corp and I had that right becuse my father paid for my freedom in WW2. Came home 40%disability but manned up and went back to work raising a faimly and instilling good values in his childern.
Now that I’m retired, my eldest,(WestPoint02), is paying for the freedom I continue to enjoy. The right to bitch and moan is the fruits of our service. The right to ignore aholes like Grant, Carlyle, and Rielly, priceless.
fajitapete: I only did 4 in the Army, but I don’t think like those others do. It’s not how long you serve, but what you gain from your experiences. For example, I was an Army brat born in a military hospital in Germany. As I entered my teen years, I was rather unfocused and after I graduated high school, I realized I needed someplace to pick up some focus and discipline. I got it and to this day, it has helped me in so many ways. Should I have stayed in? That is something that we all hear a lot “I shoulda stayed my 20, etc.”
What I don’t like is those that decide that they are the all knowing types that need to put down the military, just because they, themselves, had issues either with authority, or it wasn’t for them. So, now they feel it necessary to disparage the militaryevery chance they get. Their logic and reasoning is so far off the radar that it’s almost comical, if it wasn’t so pathetic. They piss and moan under the blanket of freedom provided by those they want to bad mouth, which is ironic.
“…and then I’d like to shoot a few hundred rounds from another machine gun at his bullet screen, while the kids watch safely from someplace nearby…”
Such a “peace” advocate Ward is!
I’m not too far from you down here in Louisiana Ward. I challenge you to do exactly what you proposed in your comment. Will meet you any time or place, and I’ll bring my kids and grandkids to watch…you got any?
When I was in the 5th or 6th grade an LST Docked in my hometown of Toledo, Ohio as part of a PR Tour. I was cammied up by Marines and sat behind what I now know was a .50 cal. I had trouble racking it, had to use both hands, but was proud of the accomplishment. (Its amazing what an acomplishment is when you are ten, but I digress.) I had no real understanding of what it meant to be in a combat arms environment or the reasons a country would choose to go to war nor would really understand it until many years later. It was just cool to be cammied up and behind a big gun.
There are many positive things about the military: patriotism, duty, service above self, discipline, fitness, persevering mindset, education etc. There is also a darkside not presented by recruiting: Disability, dealing with the VA, loss of friends and loved one, PTSD etc. The former far outweighs the latter when we are fighting out of necesity. Yet, the vast majority of wars fought in the 20th and early 21st centuries were fought for political expedency.
Our children should not be exposed to one aspect of the military when they are not yet able understand the others.
I bet them kids had a blast! I remember when I was 12 or 13 we went to an fair that had a National Guard Unit with a tank, few jeeps, and a bridging unit. MAN WAS THAT COOL. I must have spent the entire day in that tank. Wonder how I ended up a Marine but anyway….
I guarantee you every kid that got to jump behind that 50 had a good day.
HM2-
“Our children should not be exposed to one aspect of the military when they are not yet able understand the others.”
Really, are you freaking kidding me?
So tell me then, how it is that I monitored my children’s TV shows and never bought them a toy gun, yet they found anything and everything to play cowboys and indians with and pretended to shoot each other? And, later, Army- with all the camoflage and crap that I could find for them at the surplus?
Kids have imaginations and it won’t matter what amount of exposure they do or don’t get. One day they are going to wake up and realize there are unpleasant things in the world. War sucks, but it is a necessary evil. Actions equal consequence, etc…
Some will remember playing Army and want to really serve something bigger than themselves. Others will know that shit is not for them. So, don’t kid yourself, hey? GI Joe was a great toy growing up, but it in no way influenced my decision to serve or possibly go to war.
And, forget the political expediency causes war. It doesn’t fucking matter to those who volunteer to serve.
You will not be able to tell any young kid about the dark side of war. They are invincible. You will be able to wag your finger later and say I told you so and what the hell good does that do? Will being right change what you discovered or help the soldier with PTSD? Nope.
In your eyes these tools are evil. The way I look at is that who you are at 12 or 15 is who you will be at 80. Kids who want to serve will do it without seeing those kinds of tools and I can bet the farm on that.
Grover: You make my point quite well. I am sure the kids had a blast and have no idea what it is like to be shot at or to ride in fear of IEDs. They have no clue what its like to say “hey” to a guy at chow one night and have him gone the next. The kids have no idea why we go to war or what is at stake when we do. Miliitary service is not about the bad ass toys. Its about enforcing foreign policy.
Defend USA: I’m not an expert on socialization theory, but to my limited understanding kids are exposed through other kids. Plus, they mimic what they see in society. So, there are any number of explanations. And none of us know all of the reasons we ended up joining the military G.I. Joe played a role for many of us. Whether we know it or not.
War does suck. It is likely to exist for a long time. Yet, it is over simplified to say that actions equal consequences. Some actions are more equal than others apparently. Maybe I have a higher opinion of those who serve, but I have never seen a troop who did not care why he was being asked to fight. We all have our opinions, but most of us chose to follow our orders even when they are absurd. Military personnel are not stupid. That is why both Bush administrations worked so hard to sell the wars in the middle east to the military as well as the American people in a way that no one tried to sell the Vietnam War.
“You will not be able to tell any young kid about the dark side of war. They are invincible.”
Thank you for restating my point so succinctly. We cannot tell children about the realities of war and thus should not be glorifying the tools. Tools by nature, are neither good nor evil. It is how they are used.
Glorify tools? Really, like glorifying a hammer? Ever think that maybe they also see parallels to what they know? Like football uniforms=military uniforms. Football=military service.
As to the bad side, of war and other things, no one told me about murders, and the myriad of things one sees in law enforcement. But I knew it was there, the same as I knew the bad side of military service when I enlisted. And I thought I was invincible when I signed the papers, and I was no kid.
You know what, I have to say that as a soldier, I was still pretty fucking pissed off when I showed up at my 3 year old daughter’s daycare and found her camo’d up and throwing fake grenades at a human sized target, while her friends recited mock enlistment oaths. If I want my daughter exposed to military ‘games’, I am perfectly capable of doing it myself, and don’t need anyone else doing it for me. I firmly believe that we don’t need to make being in the Army glamorous for people to sign up. If my daughter ever takes a life I want it to be with understanding and a little bit of regret. And those are lessons I can teach her and don’t need anyone else doing.
I don’t know if non-military daycares do that crap, but it’s still not cool. I can understand why people are upset. If some of you guys have experience with your kids doing ‘fun’ military things, that’s great. Your kids, your rules. Giving it to all, not so great.
There is also a darkside not presented by recruiting: Disability, dealing with the VA, loss of friends and loved one, PTSD etc
These conditions are unique to military life? Somebody better send a memo to the rest of us civvies.