DAV to Purge Insurrectionists
‘We have to get it right’ – Trump supporters march through Washington DC
Some national veterans organizations have vowed to remove members who are charged in the Capitol riots.
Disabled American Veterans (DAV) are among a handful of veterans organizations who are actively checking membership lists for members who have appeared in the news. DAV and American (AMVETS) said they also plan to revoke memberships of those found guilty of illegal acts of violence.
“We believe that our members have a very sacred right to protest,” Dan Clare, a spokesman for DAV, told CNN. “They fought and sacrificed to protect that freedom, but when protesters cross the line and commit illegal acts, especially in the nation’s capitol, we found it to be abhorrent.”
Awesome. What about those participating in riots and acts of violence during the preceding months?
Veterans Groups Plan to Expel Any Members Who Took Part in Capitol Riot
By Richard Sisk
Disabled American Veterans is warning that any member who is found to have participated in the U.S. Capitol riots last week will face expulsion from the one-million member veterans service organization. And it’s not the only veterans service organization looking to come down hard on these insurrectionists.
The rioters’ actions were “a disgrace to our national values and must not be tolerated,” DAV National Commander Stephen “Butch” Whitehead said via Twitter on Saturday.
On Jan. 6, Trump supporters swarmed into the building, resulting in fatal injuries to U.S. Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick. At least a handful of veterans have been identified as taking part; one was shot and killed by police. Altogether, six deaths are linked to the incident, including a Capitol Police officer who is believed to have died by suicide.
Not a member of either, so I have no dog in this fight. My opinions of the activities by all concerned that day are just that- mine. It does strike me as disingenuous that the DAV and other veteran organizations have remained silent ’till now, considering the terror, riots, and violence from the left over recent history. In the past the DAV has also done a poor job of vetting it’s leadership’s qualifications, opening the door to valor thieves. Perhaps some self reflection is in order before throwing stones.
Read the entire article here: Military.com
Category: "The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves", Legal, Media
YEAH, bitches.
It does strike me as disingenuous that the DAV and other veteran organizations have remained silent ’till now, considering the terror, riots, and violence from the left over recent history. (DIS) In the past the DAV has also done a poor job of vetting it’s leadership’s qualifications, opening the door to valor thieves. Perhaps some self reflection is in order before throwing stones. (DAT! too)
Yeah, mothrfuckers!!!(And AW1Ed…thankyouverymuch!)
ChipNASA,
Is is true that the DAV has a poor track record
with Stolen Valor and military phonies?
After all, much of the DAV volunteerism is around VA hospitals,
and we all (should) know the extent of phony infiltration,
not only in the lobbies and coffee lounges,
but those sucking huge federal teet
for free medical services and
abhorrent monthly direct deposits.
Don’t get me started on the 100% types
who are healthy enough to buy and ride new Harleys,
build their own garages and decks,
party ’til 3am,
but then cry “disabled” as soon as life’s shit hits.
Ugh.
Jonn was a member and a proponent of several Vet Service Orgs. They have done good work supporting Veteran issues in the past, but like any large organization attract rot.
Valor Guardians Link
AW1Ed,
(From your link)
Wisconsin American Legion, UGH.
Some good news here,
that State Commander kept to her word,
when she said Gordy Clewell lied to her, too,
and she divorced Gordy’s ass.
Here’s Gordy’s FakeBook page, today.
Single.
No mention of military.
Covering himself in grandchildren photos.
What a turd bag.
https://www.facebook.com/Gordon.Clewell
MarineDad61, his former wife is a good friend of mine and she was (as others were) totally blindsided by his lies about his military service.
Actually met him my ownself.
Not widespread known, but he also claimed he was a retired warden from a prison in Indiana which also proved to be a lie. This came to light after he was outed about his veterans’ service.
Turd bag is being too lenient on him, IMO.
Skyjumper,
Phony Gordon Clewell should be kept away from grandchildren.
All children.
PFA territory here.
Ugh.
I was echoing AW1Ed’s comment and I *am* a Life Member of DAV BUT I don’t have any inside experience or knowledge of particular Stolen Valor or phonies proclivities, BUT, I’d assume that there’s some of it as with any of all of our military organizations, unless we are certain they’re vetting individually very successfully, like 99%, but I’d guess that isn’t the case or we’ know about it.
ChipNASA,
Got it. Thanks.
I am a fan of the VFW,
but the long time flaw of VFW
is delegating eligibility verification to the local POST level.
Of course, that’s there the problems occur,
since WWII, likely before.
Worse, VFW National pushes the online “At Large” memberships,
with NO verification required,
just a verifiable USA address, a payment,
and (of course) click the check box for “honesty”.
That’s why “At Large” members abound today,
as they are prompted to “transfer” to a local post,
but many never do.
Even state Departments,
required to RE-VERIFY all district and department elected officers,
quite often fail to do so,
and for the same classic reasons we see with the phonies here.
Friends.
Bar business.
Charming, charismatic, no reason to doubt.
And worse.
Thanks.
Do as we say do! You will only protest when where, what, and how we tell you to protest We are not only your leaders, we are your betters.
You WILL be assimilated! Resistance to our will is futile! Hold still while we place these chains upon you and drive the heel of the despot into your soft underbelly!
https://youtu.be/1kEyx6R6CX0
Berliner,
Let’s see if this works.
Better to stick with links to dot com, and avoid dot be.
interesting how those radicals who foment and commit violent insurrection to create a new Maoist leap forward (or great reset if you will) are sweetness and light to these fraudulent veterans swindles, but everyone else is an “insurrectionist”.
My own take: the DAV, VFW, and AL have always been pro-socialist orgs demanding ever greater government “programs” on behalf of “veterans”. They are nothing more than leftist front groups and that is why there is no attempt to clean their ranks of frauds, SV con artists, and grifters.
I believe that membership in these orgs is funding the insurrection by proxy.
Never forget that those who support ever growing government are those supporting ever diminishing liberty.
Right Dummisar? I know you loves you some tyrannical jackbooted thugs. After all, they are going to pay you the loot you are too scared to steal yourself. amiright?
By being a member of the VFW I’m supporting insurrection by proxy?
Switch to decaf.
yes, the VFW is funding politicos who lock you down and call up the NG to “protect” the purveyors of violence across the nation.
Following the money is important.
The VFW is now apolitical. It has not donated to any political campaign since 2010.
https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/veterans-of-foreign-wars/C00113001/candidate-recipients/2010
They do provide grants to vets in need (up to $1,500), scholarships for vets, scholarships for HS students and fund the National Home for Children without a dime of tax payer money.
The VFW ain’t perfect and has made some shitty choices in the past (such as how Vietnam Vets were treated) but it is not a part of any insurgency. That is a ludicrous claim not based in any sort of reality.
As far as stolen valor goes, each post is required to vet prospective members DD-214. And keep a copy on file.
While keeping a DD214 on file may be a requirement, it’s apparently not universally enforced. Do a Google search with the search string “VFW leadership stolen valor site:valorguardians.com” and you’ll find quite a few examples of VFW members – many in Post leadership roles – that are indeed guilty of Stolen Valor.
Based on what this site has exposed, the DAV and AMVETS aren’t much if any better in that respect.
Odd that DAV is investigating veterans at the DC Debacle but can’t seem to find the energy to remove and file charges on their members that were neither wounded nor disabled.
VFW has been getting “Better” I moved my membership to a new post recently and they do verify service now nationally, but still only keep a 214 to verify service qualifying awards.
Happy New Year butthead!!
Nice to see you posting.
Hope you and the Wifey are well!
Chip
LOL, Somebody has to keep an eye on that Hobo guy.
S/F
Hey – what’s wrong with wearing a “well seasoned” wardrobe? (smile)
You look good in nothing at all amigo…
(smile)
Dave, how’s my request for info on Master Chief Rose coming????
It’s important. He could have put some of those bozo fakers to work swabbing the bilges.
The universal excuse for doing nothing is… COVID
Not to worry princess, Biden will have everything back to normal in no time.
I hate lumpy gravy.
(Ahem…) MY gravy is NEVER EVER lumpy. Mashed potatoes, maybe, but gravy? Silkier than a Persian cat’s coat.
Um, Ex-PH2 . . . Persian cats’ coats often are lumpy. They tangle severely if they aren’t combed out regularly.
Until the end of last Oct, I’d owned two Persians – sequentially – for somewhat over 32 of the last 33 years. Neither much liked to be combed, and the 2nd absolutely wouldn’t tolerate it. He thus sometimes ended up looking like a 6 y/o had practiced being a barber using his coat after I’d trimmed out the tangles. (smile)
Still miss ya, fella.
Now, Hondo, it’s just a metaphor. My longhaired cats were not Persians, they were Maine Coon mixes, but the Persians I have met at cat shows had coats like silken cloud.
Their owners also had massive grooming bills. 🙂
Persians have to have a “show personality” in order to tolerate being petted, handled, looked at, spoken to, etc . . . . , by the judges and others at shows. That means they also generally tend to tolerate being groomed by their owners quite well.
Neither of my two Persians had anything close to a “show personality”. (smile)
Hondo-I should clarify. The requirement is to vet proof of eligibility for membership. At my post we just require a copy of the DD-214. The copies are maintained in a safe behind a locked door.
The VFW is post centric. The district, state and national offices have limited controls.
If someone’s eligibility/stolen valor becomes an issue there are only 2 routes to address it.
1. Someone at the local post has to bring it up in a meeting. The accused has a set amount of time to provide proof refuting the allegations to the post commander. I’m unsure of the amount of time the accused is given.
2. The national commander can take action if the local post doesn’t. I’m unaware of this happening but have only been playing in the VFW sandbox at the local level for a couple of years.
As far as I’m aware the district and state commanders have no authority to remove members from the rolls.
A couple years prior to my becoming involved (at my local post) there were issues. The members removed officers, purged those ineligible and set the ship on the correct course.
My local post is awesome and open to change. We’ve added a smoking room with it’s own ventilation (the rest of the building is now smoke free), we sponsor local reserve/guard units, are working with other non-profits to help veterans, etc… We have our fair share of characters and the occasional sea story stretches the truth. But we have no drama and everyone is vetted for membership/leadership positions. Hell, we even have a fund to provide an uber/taxi to anyone whose had too much to drink.
If someone can’t provide proof of eligibility for membership to our post they can’t join.
Local posts are responsible for policing their own.
Understood. But unless and until VSOs mandate positive vetting of ALL members (both current and new) and start cancelling individual post charters for non-compliance, you’ll continue to see some posts actually do it and others give membership vetting at best lip service.
There’s also a problem with accepting DD214s directly from the individual: forgery. Pretty good forgeries are sometimes encountered – good enough to fool many if not most people at first glance. (Pretty lousy forgeries are also sometimes used.)
Unfortunately, I’m not particularly optimistic on ever seeing this issue really addressed by VSO National HQs. Why? Because it could cost them members – and hence dues and clout. So they’ll simply avoid taking action unless and until some major scandal involving national leadership and stolen valor surfaces. And IMO, even that might not be enough to get them to choose credibility over cash and clout.
I wrote about this issue at some length about 6 1/2 years ago. I’m not sure much has really changed since then.
https://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=47844
OK. I would be glad to follow the money. By what funding mechanism is the VFW funding politicos be they ones who lock us down or otherwise? I am completely unaware of how the VFW specifically would do this, so please do enlighten me.
How any of the other service orgs do this might also be of interest. I simply have easer access to VFW information so am asking especially for how funds go from the VFW to politicos you claim that they fund.
I once thought about joining the VFW, but after all their phonies and valor thieves spotlighted here, I decided I did not want to have anything to do with them or any veterans org other than the 75th Ranger Regt. Assn. As most of these vet orgs go, one might as well join ol’ Lester Brown’s outfit in Elko. At least they give the members free chili once a year, and one gets promoted to four or five grades above one’s real rank in the military. Plus, there is always a vest and a beret warranted.
I have yet to meet a cook, water dog or Motor T driver at the VFW (of course I’ve only been about a dozen times so YMMV).
The VFWs I have been in have all had MACV-SOG flags, Green Beret flags, Force Recon and other high speed/low drag stuff on the walls.
My company rented one for a party when we got back from Iraq and had to listen to all the bullshit from the old vets talking trash. Seems there’s a lot of inter-generational hate at the VFW.
I was probably less than diplomatic when I told one of geezers “STFU, we just paid your bills for the next 6 months AND we’re paying to restock your liquor.”
I joined a VFW Post ONCE and experienced the same thing, some grumpy old fart at the bar telling me that I didn’t do shit in the ME while he was the biggest badass in SEA…
For the record, I tried to get away with doing as little Shit as possible. Even when Shit found me, I generally tried to pass the buck or blame it on someone else.
Learned all that in my “How to be a Hero by shifting blame” MCI course.
The Navy had that course’s mirror image, “How to be a Hero by taking credit” but one had to screen for a seat.
I never made the cut. Met a few who did, though.
I had a skill I learned by word of mouth, maybe it was OJT of sorts or something like that and kin of made up shit myself but, it was, “1. Carry around a clipboard with some papers on it.
2. Look busy.
3. Walk fast.
I managed to do a lot of nothing, when I was able, many of the UTAs for a while until I promoted myself into more work and responsibilities. NOW I understand the guys that never wanted to be promoted past E-5 because they always got to go to Hawaii and Germany and whatever nice TDY came alone because they were under-employed, single or were still a “workerbee” first line supervisor and maybe at best, Team Chief, but not section supervisor or anything like an additional duty so they were still driving the forklift and sweating and tossing bags and herding pax or supervising and training the newer airmen who were still learning.
The last 5 years I was in, I never left Andrews because I was “needed there” for whatever UTA or annual tour support was needed and/or had an additional duty and was doing 2 nd 3 weekends a month….for 4 or 5 years. Yeah, eventually I got burned (burnt?) out.
We must have had some of the same SNCOs.
+1 on that Dave.
And Posts wonder why they can’t get any new blood. My VFW post closed due to lack of membership and financial issues a couple years ago, and I simply haven’t bothered to transfer my membership to another post–possibly because I also got tired of hearing the same shit from the older vets about how I was “just Navy.” Fuck ’em.
DAV is a shit show, I had to have my knee replaced 2 yrs ago and they were contracted to drive me around to my VA/Rehab appointments, never ever showed some b s excuse about no vans available in my area.. even though that is what they advertise…fuck them
the chapter here is nothing but a social club of aspiring affirmative action hires and democrats. If these pimps learn you are not part of their “club”, you get shown the door.
They are all in on BLM, but not doing anything at all to help veterans. It’s despicable.
Oh, you mean they ar black and you dont like those people one bit.
Just say it, dont be passive.
More likely that he objects to them because they support an organization led by hardcore Marxists which engages in and/or encourages public acts of violence, and that race has zero to do with it.
You are aware that at least one of BLM’s major fundraisers and advisors is a Marxist who appears to have been involved in multiple bombings of public buildings as well as numerous other crimes, is a convicted felon, and served 16 years in prison for explosives/firearms convictions relating to activities with the May 19th Communist Organization – right? Those “other crimes” include the 1983 US Capitol bombing. Charges against the individual relating to the public building bombings and other crimes were dropped, either as part of a plea bargain or because they’d already been convicted on the weapons/explosives charges and was then facing a 58 year prison term (thus making further prosecution appear to be unnecessary).
That individual’s name is Susan Rosenberg. Her original sentence in 1985 on weapons/explosives charges was 58 years. She’d likely still be in prison today, except that Billy “Cigarman/I Forgive Domestic Terrorists” Clintoon commuted her prison sentence on his last day in office.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/blm-terrorist-rosenberg/
BLM, sure a problem. That’s not my problem…my problem with his remarks basically pinpoints that Mr. Ret_25x doesnt like black people.
BLM is just as twisted as your overzealous MAGA nutcases. Strange how most of you guys like to tall bout BLM problems when other side is just mich of a problem.
Both sides doing a good job embarrassing a proud nation, no?
Your power of innuendo is impressive. All I saw was distain at the leftward shift and priority changes in his local DAV.
Bingo. If I in fact had the mind-reading ability that C2Show has deluded himself into believing he possesses, I’d be making a 6-figure income in about 3 nights a week at the Vegas poker tables.
Nah just seeing what i usually see in most of you. The bad and character issues. You constantly talk shit about BLM as if you are above them. Got news, you are not above them, you are on the same level.
And make bullshit remarks about “Affirmative Action” and throwing BLM into the mix. You are setting yourself up for comments like that.
Amazing how hypocritical most of you are about others.
Post Jonn, you guys are fucking off the handle with ignorant remarks, race baiting messages and who knows what else I missed.
You guys can do better…
Someone who views the world through distorting, race-tinted glasses sees racism as the explanation for everything, whether that’s truly the case or not. They’ll also jump to conclusions and make unwarranted assumptions about others’ motivations.
Sounds to me like that’s precisely what you’re doing here.
Regarding BLM: as far as I can tell, with one exception there’s been virtually universal condemnation here of both BLM rioters and the Capitol rioters. And while I can’t speak for everyone, the best I can tell the opposition to BLM isn’t racial – it’s based on the fact that their leadership is a bunch of hardcore Marxists seeking to “remake America” (or words to that effect).
The sole exception I can think of is someone who has openly defended BLM’s and ANTIFA’s activities as being “mostly peaceful protests” (including those that degenerated into riots) but who considers the Capitol rioters “traitors”. That individual also refuses to explain the distinction between the two when pressed. Draw your own conclusions from that last point.
Now, do you have anything of substance to add? Or are you simply here to insult people?
So, does that means you have zero problem with VSOs also kicking out BLM and ANTIFA members/supporters who have participated in political violence?
Not really – without additional information, his remarks aren’t sufficient in and of themselves to support that conclusion. They can, however, be interpreted that way by someone willing to make rash assumptions or jump to conclusions without evidence.
Who the fuck are you, turd?
BLM is a black racist mob formed by two fat assed self admitted black Marxist women, and currently has more white anarchists in it than blacks.
Who the fuck are you, again? Fuck off and stop the bullshit.
BLM is no better shitbags like you. Guessing you are a MAGA jizz stain who thinks he is better than idiots in BLM?
Oh yeah, one more thing little shit. Think before you tough type someone on a comment board.
Not doing yourself any favors playing fake tough guy around here.
The rep that reviewed my record and did the paperwork for the VA was a buddy of mine and did a first rate job.
I relocated to my home of record and the local and state offices were nothing but a pan-Asian clusterfuck. Dropped them as my rep like a bad habit.
They want to act all “wokey woke”, fine. But, they won’t get any support from me.
I don’t really have any bones about some of the main service organizations, but they absolutely need to do a better job at vetting the vets that want to join.
Case in point. A few years back, AMVETS Post 13 (just down the road a piece from me) had a Commander who lied about being a Navy SEAL. He had been in the Navy, but never was a SEAL. He claimed he was in a failed POW rescue mission in the Viet Of The Nam. “The Hair” was contacted for verification and he said ……NO! This phony was removed from his AMVET post position, but was never removed from the organization’s membership because he was a life member. He also was the “Cheesehead” state AMVET Provost Marshal at that time from which he was also removed from.
When Jonn was still with us (5 – 6 years ago), I sent a letter to the national leadership of all of the vet groups and asked each one of them what they were doing to get the shitbags out of their respective organizations.
Still waiting for an answer…
Hey, DAV, how ’bout all your members who were rioting, burning stuff and looting after George Floyd OD-ed? That was okay or something, right?
It wasn’t treason.
So a riot’s location determines it it’s treasonous? No arson, no physical attacks on lawmakers, comparatively little property damage is ‘treason’ but trying to burn part of the Capitol city down is OK. Got it.
OK, let’s look at that.
By your logic, any political protest that turns violent and targets a Federal facility could be considered “treason” as an “insurrection against the US”.
BLM “protesters” who tried to storm the Federal Court house in Portland OR back in June were thus equally guilty of “treason”. After all: by your logic, they could be considered to be participants in “an insurrection against the United States”. They attacked a Federal facility to further a political objective – right? And that organization wants to “remake America” (or similar language). That shows intent and is even more damning, right?
Why not? Both the BLM and Capitol rioters attacked a Federal facility and damaged it for political reasons. Both were attempting to show displeasure with the political process in doing so.
No. As Hank Hill might put it concerning your claim here: “Why, that’s just asinine.”
Alternatively, perhaps members of neither group are guilty of treason. Perhaps both were simply participating in a protest that devolved into riot. And perhaps participants in either action who actually participated in the “riot” part deserve to be hammered for participating in a riot.
Well, Herr Gebildet Vollidiot? Which is it?
Oh, oh, oh! I can answer that! BLM is excused because they have reasons which are not only approved but are pure. Or something.
It’s only treason when somebody says so. If they are the right kinda people. (Don’t you go trying to determine who that is or during which phase of the moon the definitions will change. You are not approved for that info.)
Please define Treason Lars?
Webster’s defines it as: the crime of betraying one’s country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.
I did not see anyone in the Capital (other than Police and Secret Service) with a gun. None of them attempted to force or coerce the representatives to do anything! And none attempted to do likewise to President Trump.
However, I do find a match for some of the comments by certain Congressional Representatives from the State of California! Your Propaganda Arm needs to work up a new word for its Mostly Peaceful demonstrations, because it is now being coopted by the right!
Has anyone seen photos or video of January 6
where someone is wearing their DAV/VFW/AL bling?
I’m looking, but haven’t found any (yet).
There were a small number caught doing this
during the 2020 summer riots and looting.
Ahhh, but we are told not to compare
2020’s “mostly peaceful protesters” with 2021.
Ugh.
For a comical phony diversion,
here is a phony,
who impersonated police,
not for the power,
not for picking up young female perps,
not for running down speeders for fun, but
FOR THE DONUTS.
https://local21news.com/news/offbeat/police-impersonator-arrested-after-stealing-doughnut-from-convenience-store
Is it bad to think this would be a super cool car to own and drive?
https://harrisburg.craigslist.org/cto/d/glen-rock-2015-ford-taurus-interceptor/7251882734.html
Robocop (the first one) was prescient:
The level of entitlement required to support overthrowing our republic because you don’t like the way the majority voted, failing, and then acting like the victims,…is breathtaking. I have never been more surprised and disgusted with the right than I have this last few weeks.
It is really simple…
The election was not stolen.
Starting an insurrection to overthrow an election on the false pretext that it was “stolen” was a coup.
If you committed treason you don’t deserve to be on DAV roles.
And that deluded attitude that flies in the face of the facts makes you the enemy too, Lars. Right along with the social democrats who committed the election fraud, and their overlords like Soros, and Bloomberg.
Treason is OK when his people do it.
Seems to be the case, Mason. I’m curious to see if he’ll reply to my comment above pointing that out.
Not holding my breath, though.
Hondo, you’re far too logical. That microcephalic mind can’t handle real logic.
Exactly– that’s the way commies work.
You’re really a fucking idiot Lars…
But hey, kettle… meet pot.
Are you here to shit on the carpet again because your fellow veterans found you wanting, as did the active duty folks,
or because your fellow left-loon-marxoids found you wanting and kicked you out of their loonybin forums?
Like this?
If you’re so damned disgusted, you probably shouldn’t be here. I have not seen a single person here condoning the DC riots. What I HAVE seen is you condoning, and by your own prideful admission, participating in several “mostly peaceful” protests. Every time I think you couldn’t reach a new level of hypocrisy, you prove me wrong. You’re a fraud and you should probably stop believing your own bullshit.
Condoning hell, he even admitted to being one of their “Medics”!
I never truly understood “projection” until I started reading Commissar’s screeds. So he’s at least been a little educational.
Commissar, Комиссар or 政委, whichever you prefer…
I do believe you are mistaken, it wasn’t an insurrection. It was an “idea”. Therefore, all is to be forgiven.
Definition of commissar
1a: a Communist party official assigned to a military unit to teach party principles and policies and to ensure party loyalty
b: one that attempts to control public opinion or its expression
2: the head of a government department in the U.S.S.R. until 1946
3: Honorary title bestowed upon extremist fuckup UCB graduates.
4. Self-adopted title of Educated Fools with delusions of adequacy.
5. A lame attempt at hipster “humor”. Ex. Attempting to ironically reference an obscure definition/reference by overeducated man-boys who paid $80k for an undergraduate degree in a topic that has zero relevance to being a productive member of society.
But no doubt he’s looking forward to Chairman Xiden forgiving his college loan debt.
And all it will cost you, Lars, is your soul. You really should have read Cicero.
Panel et circuses, eh?
Panem et circuses. I hate autocorrect.
Remember – he is so enlightened that he told a person FROM CHINA who said YES, IT IS COMMUNIST, I WAS BORN AND LIVED THERE that they were wrong.
He’s an arrogant, ignorant cocksucker. Guess he sticks up for who and what he believes in…