Obama tax hikes loom

| October 1, 2012

Remember those “Bush tax cuts for the rich” we heard so much about for eight years? Well, it seems that now that they’re about to expire in the New Year, it’s the poorest working Americans who will suffer the most, according to the Washington Post;

For most taxpayers, the bulk of the increase would be triggered by the expiration of tax cuts enacted in 2001 and 2003 during the George W. Bush administration. The expiration of President Obama’s payroll tax holiday, which shaved two percentage points off the 6.2 percent Social Security tax, comes in a close second.

But the lowest earners would be hit hardest by the expiration of tax breaks enacted as part of Obama’s 2009 economic stimulus package, the study found. The stimulus includes a temporary expansion of the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit for working families. And it temporarily bumps up a two-year, $1,800 tax credit for college tuition to four years and $2,500.

“The fiscal cliff turns out to be quite complicated,” said Donald Marron, director of the Tax Policy Center, the result of “an accumulating snowball of temporary tax provisions.”

Yeah, not complicated at all by calling them “tax cuts for the rich” when they were really tax cuts for working Americans. Some people who were exempted from paying taxes because of their low wages will have to pay taxes for the first time.

Just like those stupid Obama ads I see that say that Romney will raise taxes on the middle class while cutting taxes for the richest Americans. There’s not a bit truth in that, either, but you can use the the Bush “tax cuts for the rich” catch phrase as an example of how truthful the Democrats are when they talk about taxes. Like Clinton’s middle class tax cut which became the tax hike on all Americans, even Social Security recipients. Yeah, it turns out that we’re all rich according to Democrats.

Category: 2012 election, Barack Obama/Joe Biden, Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan, Taxes

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UpNorth

Sippy, Citizen’s for Tax Justice? Seriously?
And, your list of “accomplishments”? He didn’t save any car company. He saved the UAW’s pension fund, while screwing the bond holders of two auto companies. And installed the worker’s kollective on the board of directors of both auto companies. What’s next for them? They gonna start making Ladas and Trabants?
OH, and Sip? In reference to “saving us from a second great depression”, I quote a liberal newscaster, Scott Pelley, CBS News, referring to Obama’s 3.5 years, “This is the worst economic recovery America has ever had”. I know you don’t see that, your head is so far up Obama’s fourth point of contact, it’s a wonder you can breathe.
And, maybe you haven’t noticed but even the Vice Moron has stopped yelling that “GM is alive and Osama bin Laden is dead”.

Mr. Blue

GM isn’t dead… it’s just pinin’ for the fjords!

NHSparky

Off the top of my head, he’s reduced payroll taxes by 2%,

Uh, no. It’s a temporary reduction in WITHOLDING. The money has to be made up somehow, otherwise SS goes bankrupt that much faster–you know SS, the “insurance that ain’t insurance” bullshit you keep spreading?

And i submit that Obama’s legislation has ALREADY done a lot of people a lot of good.

Such as? Porkulus? Trillion-dollar deficits? Policies and regulation (not law, mind you–Executive Order and regulation which BYPASSES Congress) which have kept unemployment above 8 percent (in reality above 12 percent) for 44 months straight? Gas, food, and energy prices which have gone through the fucking roof in the last 3 1/2 years? Sending jobs to China?

That kind of good? Yeah, I can do without, thanks.

Mr. Blue

As for “done a lot of people a lot of good”, well, the supermassive inflation is helping those guys on Wall Street Obama speechifies against… and then begs them for campaign cash.

Insipid

@52- Look when Sparky went ahead and quoted Americans for Tax Reform i actually debunked it with the CBO. And even if i didn’t do that, you can’t fairly have one standard for me and another for thee. Especially since just about the ONLY source that I’ve ever posted that someone, somewhere didn’t think was biased was Redstate.org. Like it or not, most folks consider The New York times and the AP and the CBI to be fairly reliable sources. Either man-up and actually debunk what’s in the articles or stop with simply stating that my sources are terrible. 1. They’re not terrible and 2. You have no standards whatsoever as to what you post here. In fact twice Jonn has featured stories which were later proved beyond all doubt to be false. Secondly, yes he did save the auto-industry. But thanks for revealing what you’re really all about: making working class people suffer. The unions took drastic pay cuts to save the industry, but that’s not good enough for you. To you nothing works unless every worker is reduced to slave wages. There is no evidence whatsoever that Scott Kelley is a “liberal” other than the fact that he doesn’t work for Fox. Secondly the recovery we’ve had has been amazing when you consider the size of the economic melt-down caused by Republican policies. This was not a normal economic down-turn. This was a systemic, system-wide economic calamity that was claiming bank after bank. It was a melt-down of our entire economy that led Hank Paulson to declare that there would be no economy unless they got 700 billion right away! This was housing values falling 40%. This was the economy shrinking at 9% and losing almost 800k jobs a month with no end in sight. This was a catastophe and a half and it was ALL caused by Republicans and you have the gall to turn around and get mad at Obama because he’s not cleaning up your mess fast enough? Sorry he couldn’t do it in 4, he’s going to need 8 and the American people will… Read more »

Insipid

@54=The Bush tax cuts were temporary and you Republican’s insist that the deficits THEY created must also be paid back- out of social security funds- so i don’t see the difference. Other than the Payroll tax-cut helps poor and middle class and you just hate that.

The trillion dollar deficits were caused almost entirely by Republicans. The stimulus was about the only thing Obama was to “blame” for and that was done to stave off the Depression caused by Bush policies. But the biggest cost factors for the Debt were the Bush Tax cuts, the two wars, the unpaid for medicare part D, and the Bush-caused great recession. The president is not Opec he has nothing to do with gas prices. All he can do is take steps to make us independent of foreign oil. This President Obama has done moreso than any President in history.

Insipid

@55- What “supermassive inflation”? You’re just making shit up.

NHSparky

How can you debunk ATR? They’re QUOTING THE FUCKING LAW. As for the CBO, the next time they’re right in their projections will be the first time, because they’re a perfect example of GIGO–Garbage In, Garbage Out. So no, the CBO “projections” don’t jive with reality and rarely have, if ever.

most folks consider The New York times and the AP and the CBI to be fairly reliable sources.

Ask Jayson Blair about that.

And saving the auto industry? How, exactly? GM is doubling down on stupid by pushing a car that LOSES them $40-50 K per unit, when they sell one, which they aren’t. Chrysler is owned by FIAT. Ford is about the only one doing worth a shit, and they didn’t take bailout money. Wanna try again?

NHSparky

This was a catastophe and a half and it was ALL caused by Republicans

Community Reinvestment Act. Google is not your friend in this case. Or as Ronaldus Maximus would say, “The trouble with our liberal friends is that they know so much that simply isn’t so.”

And as far as “supermassive inflation”, four years ago I was paying $1.85 for a gallon of gas, $1.75 for a gallon of heating oil, hamburger was $2.39/lb. Now most of that has doubled (or more) with no end in sight. Basic necessities, sippy. No way in hell I’m buying a new car or major appliances anytime in the near future because I’m having a hard enough time just providing the basics for my family. Vacation to Disneyworld? More like a day to York Wild Kingdom, if we’re lucky.

The trillion dollar deficits were caused almost entirely by Republicans.

And that right there has to be Grade-A dumbfuckery right there. Who has had trillion-dollar deficits every year of their adminstration? Who has NOT passed a budget in over 3 1/2 years? Even you can’t believe that. No fucking way you’re that stupid. Please tell me you aren’t.

NHSparky

The president is not Opec he has nothing to do with gas prices.

Yet in 2005-2008 I heard all sorts of dipshit liberals like Pelosi, Reid, and Lockyear (California AG) claiming just that…

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/flashback-pelosi-07-blames-bush-307-gas-12-blames-speculators

Oh, but now she’s blaming “speculators”…nah, wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact this administration has shitcanned all the rigs in the Gulf, won’t allow drilling off our coasts (unless it’s the Chinese or Brazilians) or in ANWR, won’t allow the Keystone Pipeline to be built, the devaluation of the dollar basically making EVERYTHING cost more, etc., etc., etc…

And the dumbfuckery continues. Please, do go on.

Nik

LOL @ Insipid calling the Master Chief a whiny-ass-bitch when Insipid is, at the very least standing up for people who want the MCPO’s stuff.

I don’t make $250k/year. I’m ok with that. I made a couple of poor decisions when I was younger and missed out on great opportunities that I just plain didn’t recognize. My choices, my life, my consequences. I don’t want anyone bailing me out. I don’t want anyone else’s money.

And quoting the CBO without details on the specifics of what they’re prognosticating is intellectually dishonest. I’ve seen both sides guilty as hell of doing that.

The CBO just takes whatever inputs and suppositions they’re given and spit out the answer. If I, or rather someone with the authority to do so, asked the CBO “So, if magical unicorns flew through the sky shitting piles of gold unicorn shit on every family’s lawn, would that improve the country’s net worth?” They would answer it with a “Derp…yah.”

Whether or not the scenario put before them is remotely reasonable or realistic, they give the answer based on the conditions described to them.

Hondo

MCPO: I personally think “Sippy the Pinhead” is a more appropriate nickname than “Sippy Cup”. But I could be wrong. And both work fairly well.

DefendUSA

Hey Sippy-
Remember when you claimed that people couldn’t possibly make what they were actually making on unemployment? That was what we got. Now I can prove to you what people on the dole for permanent entitlements got- one example: The Michigan Lottery winner got $5475.00 per month…go ahead and add that up, would you? And then do tell me: Are you a socialist?

streetsweeper

Arriving to this here little firefight a bit late…Sippy, Sparky is correct.The CBO only collects and compiles the data they receive. It is up to supplier of that data to insure the integrity of the date, same as a witness making a statement or supplying sworn testimony in a court of law. It is either accurate and verifiable or it is garbage. The Bush admin informed Congress in 2001 about what was coming down the trail via the Community Re-Investment Act, Fannie Mae-Freddie Mac whatever you choose to call it.

As I recall from watching C-Span during the debate about this as far back as 2005, Barny Frank and Chris Dodd were adamant about not taking any corrective actions what so ever. None, nada, zero, zip. And before you jump at my using Wall Street Journal or anything from Karl Rove, keep in mind that you and I rarely if ever, have had any sort of interaction short of wanting to mentally toss you under a freight train.

OWB

@ 37: Hey, sippy! Maybe you can explain how this is even theoretically possible: “I guess there is a small correction he has lowered taxes for 95% of Americans.”

Do you actually believe crap like that? It is not possible for taxes to be lowered for 95% of Americans unless 95% or greater actually PAY taxes. When you factor in the number of persons who have no income (like children) it is not possible to raise OR lower the taxes for 95% of Americans.

By the way – I am an American, on a fixed income. We are NOT rich by any stretch of the imagination. Our taxes have not been lowered. We get by only because we live frugally. Yeah, our tax burden seems to increase every year.

OWB

@ #56: No evidence that Scott Pelley is a lib? Ask anyone who has ever known him!

But until you actually do, keep lying to yourself. It seems to be working so well for you. 😉

DefendUSA

@OWB 66–
Amen! You got it, mister. It used to be that 51% of Americans were paying taxes and now it’s lower…Remember, pointing out facts to the left minded thinkers will make them plug their ears and shield their eyes. Or, run like a cockroach from the “light”!!

Joe

A lot of you guys are just ticked off ‘cuz you realize your guy Mitt is goin’ down!

OWB

@ #69: No, you idiot, a lot of us guys are ticked off ‘cuz we realize that our country is goin’ down!

Nik

@70

Going down like a prom queen after 2 beers.

Twist

@69-If you are judging that from polls that are oversampling Democrats then you may be in for a rude awakening.

DLM

Why not call them the ‘Impending Obama Tax Hikes’ becase that is what they really are.

Nik

@73

Because the MSM wouldn’t dare speak against the Chosen One…unless, of course, he’s giving someone else access to him they’re not getting. Then, they get all sniffly until he makes it up to them.

Gallagher Fan

Sparky you make me laugh. In several threads I’ve seen you brag about how much money you make and now you expect me to believe that it’s barely covering your expenses? Yeah, I suppose you got a bridge you’d like to sell too.

I also love how you cherry pick gas prices to make 2008 sound much better than it really was. You are aware, are you not, that the $1.85 gas you enjoyed in late ’08 was the result of demand falling due to the recession? Pray tell Sparky, what was the average price of a gallon in June ’08? Were you lamenting about making ends meet then as well?

MCPO NYC USN (Ret.)

Hey Gallagher Fan .. reach into your trunk of props and pull out a brain … Oh sorry … I thought you were Carrot Top for a moment!

http://www.google.com/search?q=comedian+carrot+top&hl=en&rlz=1R2ADBR_enUS378&prmd=imvnso&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Vi9rUJmHMeLl0gGfvYGIDw&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=644#hl=en&rlz=1R2ADBR_enUS378&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=comedian+carrot+top+early&oq=comedian+carrot+top+early&gs_l=img.12…39310.45263.2.46825.6.5.0.0.0.0.188.578.2j3.5.0…0.0…1c.1.RoQYFRpRVvc&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=a62b24b3a6670c8f&biw=1024&bih=644

Gallagher Fan

I’m quite familiar with the comedy stylings of Mr. Carrot Top. He’s not nearly as bad as his critics contend, but there’s something crude, blunt, and unrefined about his act. I find Gallagher’s subtle wit to be superior.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Right a sledgehammer and some watermelons, very subtle…

JBS

@75 I believe in 2008, it was a democratic controlled congress and senate. Both denied any new drilling or energy production within or by the US, thereby driving up the cost and demand of oil from other nations. Since then, it has been the senate that is stopping cogress from passing any new forms of production; plus the President would veto any move towards that.

Hondo

Actually, Gallagher Fan, that was only a small part of the reason. The major portion was recovery from an as-yet unexplained – and unexplainable – spike in oil prices well above that attributable to either governmental action or normal market forces.

http://www.gppi.net/fileadmin/gppi/GPPiPP1_Oil_Prices_2009.pdf

Moreover, the recession did not end in the US until mid-2009, and in other places even later (some authorities still regard it as ongoing in a worldwide context). So blaming the precipitous fall in oil prices between mid-2008 and the end of the year would only make sense if gasoline prices had either stayed low or continued to fall.

They didn’t. Gas is well over $3.60 a gallon today.

Not even a nice try, unless you were trying to demonstrate an ignorance of economics.

NHSparky

GallagherFan–yeah, I do okay, but not incredibly well. I’m paying off bills/debts from the “good times” instead of doing as my ex did and filing for bankruptcy (which dropped another nice big bill in my lap she didn’t pay, because I was a cosigner while we were married.)

Let me give you a few bills I pay EVERY. FUCKING. MONTH.

Gas for vehicle to drive 45 miles each way to work: $400
Tolls for said vehicle: $100
Maintenance for said vehicle (average): $150

Property taxes: $500 (yeah, $6K/year, even with vet’s exemption)
Heating oil: $200 (700 gallons @ $3.50/gallon)
Electricity: $175

Groceries for family of five: $600

And we haven’t even gotten into the mortgage itself, vehicle payment, paying off those other CC/bills I am taking care of instead of piling it on others via bankruptcy, etc. I’m lucky I’m putting 10 percent of my pre-tax earnings into a 401(k).

So start doing the math and you’ll get a good idea of what I’m bringing home, and from there you can get a pretty good idea of what I’m making. Again, good, but not great, and it’s not going nearly as far as it did four years ago.

While we’re discussing 2008, consider that gas prices were above an average of $3/gallon for five months during that period. Since the annoited one took office, they’ve been above $3/gallon since early 2010, most of that time well above the $3.50/gallon mark:

http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx

2-17 AirCav

Sparky: You can feed a family of five on $600/mo? Hat tip on that. No pizza nights at your house? Football Sundays: Bring Your Own Everything?

NHSparky

Pizza is mostly of the WalMart variety. Actually, that’s not much (if any) cheaper than the $10 variety of pizzas from Pizza Hut and the like.

Yeah, I’m jumping up and down for joy if I can feed us dinner for under $10. Lots of Shepherd’s Pie, lots of tuna noodle casserole, etc. Steak tips/ribs are a rare treat, and usually make a few dinners/lunches.

I can’t wait until the kids are teenagers. HFS. The five-year old can pack it away already and I have no friggin idea where it goes.

Nik

Sparky, that’s getting shit done. Ooh-fucking-rah!

UpNorth

“What “supermassive inflation”? You’re just making shit up”. Says the troll whose schtick is just making shit up.
And, ignoramus, it’s Scott Pelley, not Kelley. What a maroon. And, he was absolutely correct in his characterization of this “recovery”. How many “Recovery Summers” have we had, according to Joe Bite-Me’s definition?
Now, you guys have done it, you’ve assailed Sippy with facts. You know how he reacts to facts, he plugs his ears and hollers so loud that he disturbs mom upstairs, and she pulls the plug on her computer.

NHSparky

Hondo–I’ll throw in my .02 on your assertions in @80. Note that in mid-late 2008, the Bush administration opened up a lot of drilling leases on federal land. Sarah Palin was touting, “Drill baby, drill!” and despite the evisceration she took on that score, the mere PERCEPTION that we would increase domestic production at the cost of OPEC production sent prices tumbling. Even a relatively small change in oil production can have a profound impact.

Now that we’ve all but ceased drilling in the Gulf, curtailed domestic exploration (with the exception of the aforementioned leases opened in 2008), domestic production rose a bit in 2009-10 but is on its way down again (for the record, our domestic production is roughly on par with what we produced in the late 1940’s.) Demand is relatively constant or slightly increasing, inventories are again declining, throw in a couple of storms and refinery fires, and viola!–$4/gallon yet again with no end in sight.

But a buddy of mine off my first boat is working for Schlumberger. He’s telling me there isn’t nearly enough work for him in the US, so they’re sending him overseas, where there’s TONS of work. Venezuela, Thailand, Singapore, Kenya, etc…four weeks out, four weeks at home.

Wouldn’t mind that if the money’s good.

Yat Yas 1833

Sparky, a “family of five” on $600 a month?! I live alone, my ‘honey’ is with me a few days a month, and I still go through $400 a month!!! I must admit I do like my steak and eggs after Mass on Sunday. A six oz. New York Strip done medium rare on my Binford 5000 turbo deluxe “Tim Taylor” signature series grill, fried ‘taters and three eggs over-medium. Tortillas to eat with and wheat toast with strawberry preserves for “dessert”.

NHSparky

Yeah, well, we’ve learned to cut back. Sunday breakfast is more on the order of bacon and eggs, and not too many of either of those, considering a dozen eggs is pushing $2, and a 20-oz. package of bacon will set you back $6 even at WalMart.

Lots of chicken, lots of hamburgers and hot dogs, soup, stews, stuff like that. Very few “prepared” foods. Summer is coming to an end and with my work schedule of late I don’t think I’ve touched the grill in nearly a month. To be fair, I don’t count stuff like cleaning supplies, TP, paper towels, or other stuff that we get at the Costco/Sam’s Club type stuff. I bought about $400 worth of meat a few months back and that along with a few racks of ribs here and there has kept us in meat since about May, but that’s rapidly coming to an end.

I’m not looking forward to trying to fill that freezer again. Ugh.

Twist

I also am able to feed a family of five with between $500-$600. Granted I do that by also hunting, fishing, and gardening. It will get cheaper and easier when I move back to Alaska since there is a lot more meat on salmon, moose, carabou, and bear than there is on bass and white tail deer.

NHSparky

Tell ya what Twist…as much as I bitch about food cost I see how much the people who grow, farm, and fish make and it disgusts me. AW1 Tim can tell you better than I about how the lobstermen/fishing outfits make in Maine, and I still have no idea how/why the go bug hunting when they are lucky to get $3/lb for lobsters.

MCPO NYC USN (Ret.)

RECAL TIME:

Taxes before OMAMA – Not Bad.

Taxes with OBAMA – Very Bad.

END OF RECAL TIME

MCPO NYC USN (Ret.)

Honest mistake OMAMA –> OBAMA.

PintoNag

Sparky, I don’t know where you live, but if you can find a source for whole or half hogs and beef, that might be cheaper for you. Particularly if you have access to meat and vegetables produced by one of the Amish, Mennonite, or Huetterite colonies.

Twist

Sparky, I agree with you, but I don’t hunt, fish, or farm for profit. What I do is for sustinance, nothing more and nothing less.

MCPO NYC USN (Ret.)

Sippy just arrived at my house. We are watching the debates togther. Can someone call the police and the medical examiner at about 2230? Thanks!

NHSparky

Only if there’s pictures later, Master Chief.

MCPO NYC USN (Ret.)

Sippy choked along with the President very early in the debate. No need for medical examiner, I will attest to the cause of death.

There is a stark difference; the strong andthe weak.

Romney – 1
Obama – 0

The first debate was like watching a respectful headmaster of a school give the class know it all a spanking in front of the entire student body.

“As the President your are entitled to your own plane, but you are not entitled to your own facts.”

MCPO NYC USN (Ret.)

Oh … Michelle looks worried!

Ex-PH2

Romney — well prepared, nothing overdone, could have been a tad more specific but was able to refute several Bo points, forceful and agressive without being overbearing or attacking Bo. Needs to get rid of that tie and use the ‘old school’ tie. No party colors.

Bo — waffling occasionally, using the IMO lame anecdotal ‘hurt puppy’ stories which are inappropriate in the debate at this level, did seem prepared but could have been more so. And no blue ties.

Both of them could have avoided smirking when the other was speaking. Appearing (at least) to listen attentively is better.

I give this round to Romney.

Devtun

The Gubna Mitt Romney won the first debate by 2 or 3 TDs. He was in command of the podium, facts ,and responses – very smooth and assertive. Obama just looked disinterested, flustered, and definitely not in command (looked very uncomfortable). Did anybody notice Romney looked directly at Obama when talking, while Obama looked at the moderator?

I watched MSNBC and CNN for reaction, and oh boy there is outrage and disappointment at Barry’s performance. Ed Schultz, Chris Matthews, James Carville were just screaming at Obama’s ineptness – like he didn’t want to be there. Obama where are you, where is your “A” game!? LOL! The lazy and disengaged President – Gov Sununu called it.

BTW, Bill Maher tweeted “looks like Obama does need his TelePrompter”. Wow!

Yeah, Romney was enjoying himself on the stage and you could tell. For Obama this was torture and misery, and you could catch his scowls on split screen camera shots. Oh, I have to commend CNN, they had best coverage w/ split screen at all times, while FNC & MSNBC focused mostly on the speaker. You could catch facial expressions in response to answers on CNNs coverage – very nice.

MSNBC snap poll has it as Romney 46, Obama 22, and a tie 32
CNN snap poll has it as Romney 67, Obama 25, and a tie 8

There were some more polls about who looked more Presidential, and Romney outdistanced Obama more than 2 to 1. We’ll see if this changes anything 5 days from now in the polls.

JP

Ya gotta give BO a break, he didn’t have his trusty teleprompter