Poseur lawyer; everybody is SF
Jeff sent us a link to a lawyer’s webpage in which Kelly Gamble (Murphy) makes the claim that she and her husband were assigned to a Special Forces unit;
I met my husband (also an Army Veteran) while finishing my last overseas tour of duty in 1988 – we were both were [sic] assigned to a Special Operations unit.
Jeff tells me that he was in the same unit as Kelly, back in the California Reserves in Oakland and he doesn’t remember anyone in his unit being assigned to Special Forces. They were in a civil affairs battalion, which could have had dealings with Special Forces units, but as an assigned member?
And her records don’t bear that out either;
Sure all Special Forces A Teams have a veterinary food inspector assigned to them, it’s as important a job as the weapons, demo, commo and medical team members. Who else is going to check the food of the Team’s puppies and kittens?
Gamble makes the point of telling her prospective clients how she is proud of her 11 years of service and then she pulls the “Special Operations” thing out. Apparently, she wasn’t proud enough to refrain from pulling the Special Operations shit out.
Jeff says that he warned her to pull that reference off of her website before he wrote to us. I guess she doesn’t know what dicks we are…until now.
Category: Phony soldiers
Yes, this isn’t nearly a Ballduster McSoulpatch level violation.
But as already stated, the “special operations” monniker clearly seems to be thrown in there unneccessarily to generate a “oh wow green beret or something” reaction from people who don’t know any better in the effort to sell her law service. She could have simply mentioned her honorable service in the Army, and I’ll bet that would have drawn folks in just as well who are looking for such backgrounds in a potential lawyer.
In my opinion, (assuming it’s in fact her) her silly comments and threats here have only served to further cement the purposefully confusing wording idea rather than distance it from her. Handled differently, I think she could have came in here and not only solved this, but turned it around into a businuess generator that showed folks who really have been there done that that she can think on her feet, is well tempered, smart, with coupled with her (honorable) Army background, is probably a good lawyer that has similar worldview and work ethic that many here have and want in others.
But now?
OWB, its a lot of the old timers who have the attitude of laziness, or like to hide instead of work, and I hate to talk smack about Officers, but many of the CA Officers are like that. When I was a training NCO, I would plan everything from rucking to ranges to land nav lanes, and would be shot down because the Officers would get their ACU’s dirty! That’s hoe we get such a reputation!
Had the larger of your group presented your ‘question/concern’ in any mature or professional manner, you would have received a similar reply..but that was not the case…I was sent an anonymous email, followed by several belligerent emails. As fellow veterans, you guys should be ashamed and embarassed. By the way I was not “technically” in a special operations unit…I WAS in a Special Operations Unit…if you don’t like the designation, complain to SOCOM. It is this type of juvenile, arrogant attitude that is an affront to the comraderie which has been the backbone of our military. This is no way to win support for combat veterans..it’s a way to turn people off even more than they already are with the military. You guys are peeing in the wind. Well, it’s your face!! Why don’t you guys spend your time doing things like WWR (Warrior Watch Riders)..where WE escort returning combat soldiers to their homes on our motorcycles with flags waiving, instead of trying to hassle people who haven’t done anything wrong and trying to minimize fellow veterans roles in the military.
An attorney who thinks the Department of the Army has the authority to do something about a blog? No wonder JFK School of Law is unaccredited by the ABA.
MS. Gamble…WOW! You know, I have never run into a lawyer with any self-respect that would come on a blog and use the words that you have to defend yourself and what lousy proofing and punctuating from a lawyer who must have superior writing skills should they not want to be laughed at by a DA. It’s not becoming.
I realize “you” were put on the spot, but that is not any way to command respect. And, frankly, if you weren’t itching for some kind of fight, why would you not re-evaluate what was said to you in an email from Jonn and take into consideration that you offended someone in your former unit and that it might be misconstrued.
Where I come from we led by example. It seems you haven’t learned how to do so. Don’t hold your breath waiting for any high-ups to come down on Lilyea. If he thought his ass would be in a sling, there is no way in hell he would post it.
Have a good day, won’t you?
Well, at least she didn’t threaten us with a lawsuit – kudos Ms. Gamble. Still waiting on CID to kick down my door, though.
Kelly Gamble, Esquire, your fingers are flapping and you’re making no headwind.
If you are, indeed, a lawyer, then use your head for something other than a hatrack. You’re missing a major and minor point being discussed; and you’ve set yourself up to distract from those points.
1. Minor: CA and PSYOP WERE Special Operations forces. Now they are Information Operations forces. Bragg might be their heritage, but no longer holds claim to ownership of those MOS.
2. Major: what is the threshold for stealing valor? Had you written “Civil Affairs” you would have been accurate – and may have lost business because civil affairs are what we hear about on Maury and Oprah. You were not incorrect, either, in writing “Special Operations” but there exists the probability that you knew the public does not know the difference between “Special Operations” and “Special Forces.” Whether you received clients and cash because of that association is another matter.
This same discussion is being held over a candidate for political office in Florida. He made the claim that he worked in the Plans Shop at SOCOM. He’s not inaccurate, but the Myth of the Green Beanie is all powerful in the public’s mind. Had he just swept the floor and emptied the ashtrays in the Plans shop, he could make the same claim and voters would think he was Rambo.
The metric involved is whether someone gains from folks believing the person is more than what they are. It is a moral metric, not a legal one.
You’ve followed the debate and you may understate our judiciary has said defrauding honest folks out of their money and other, non-monetary support (“Stealing Valor”) is simply free speech.
Is this acceptable to you? It is unacceptable to most of the folks here. The question for me is what degree of deception is acceptable? Have you described yourself in such a way as to assist folks in deceiving themselves about your service?
To Bad Gamble:
Your words-
“Ashamed, embarrassed.” No I am not.
“Illiterate hater.” No again.
“you war vets need to back the hell up and understand who supported you while you were out there.” Really?
“Wow I’m famous…” Yes you are; by opening up your keystroke trap… more famouser by the stroke!
I’m sorry my junior medic ruined your mind while at Ft. Sam. He was just an SF student having a good time. Heartbreak can be traumatic and long lasting. Therapy is needed in your case. Good luck. Instead of calling DA… try 1-800-273-TALK instead. It’ll do you and your clients good.
“…Why don’t you guys spend your time doing things like WWR (Warrior Watch Riders)..where WE escort returning combat soldiers to their homes on our motorcycles with flags waiving, instead of trying to hassle people who haven’t done anything wrong and trying to minimize fellow veterans roles in the military.”
One simply has to wonder if the use of hyperbole works out there in California courts better than it does in the rest of the country!
So, does that last phrase mean that you are working to minimize the roles of vets? Or reduce their required service?? Or maybe you use this flag waving, m/c riding bit as cover for your own anti-vet tradition???
Each time I read that last sentance it leaves more to the imagination.
In any case, if you had actually read, with only a small amount of comprehension, the comments here you would have discovered that no one, let me make this perfectly clear – NO ONE, impuned your service in any regard. No one, again, let’s be very clear here, NO ONE, tried to minimize YOUR service, perhaps even your continuing service to this country or the mlitary.
What was questioned here was your claim, perhaps an exaggeration of service, perhaps not. Most of the comments questioned whether this was an issue or a non-issue. THAT is what the discussion has been.
Unlike the comments from the posters here, YOUR comments are filled with negative judgements and unearned ire. Calling us all HATERS is no way to garner friends here. But you knew that.
Thanks for playing. It would have been so enlightening to have had you simply explain your use of the phrase “Special Operations” to those of us unfamiliar with what it meant in the Army at the time.
I concur with crucible’s points (#52).
Look, don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to totally defend this Kelly person. But I still stand by my original sentiments, that this is nowhere near the level of ‘soul patch’ and his ilk. Not even close. Again, technically, based on the time period and units involved, she did not make any erroneous or exagerrated claims it appears. I’m sure the military veteran at your local watering hole has embellished far worse things about the past.
And her responses here, while definitely not on the level of professionalism we would have hoped for, are somewhat understandable. With the seeming explosion of poseurs left and right these days, we seem to have a corresponding increase in those who are quick to accuse anyone and everyone of stolen valor. Being accused of such is no small matter, so I’m sure some of the anger is understandable.
That said, the level of vitriol in her initial response seems to indicate to me that there is a high degree of defensiveness. Which, of course, would seem to be the response of someone being called out for something which they feel guilty about.
In other words, while Kelly was techinically correct in her original wording, there is no doubt in my mind that she tried to impress a wee bit by association to the general public. As others touched upon, the average citizen looking for attorneys might be impressed by someone claiming association with Special Operations, rather than someone claiming association with a union of harmonica players.
I suppose as Jonn and others point out, she could have easily put her association as Civil Affairs or the like. But for her coming on strong here initially, and then seeing suspicious posts supporting her, isn’t winning anyone here.
Let’s put it this way, I’m glad I’m nowhere near San Leandro and don’t need a family lawyer.
And yeah, it never ceases to amaze me that you don’t even have to graduate Law School to be a member of the Bar in CA.
The state that gave us Oily Taint gives us Kelly Gamble. Just fuckin wonderful.
DaveO, while Psyop has had a name change, Civil Affairs has not changed in mission or doctrine, we are NOT information ops, we are the liason between the military and host nation government, NGO’s, and the civilian population of the host nation. We do everything from condolence payments, to managing displaced persons camps, refugees (there is a difference), handling CERP projects, and handing out soccerballs.
“1. Minor: CA and PSYOP WERE Special Operations forces. Now they are Information Operations forces. Bragg might be their heritage, but no longer holds claim to ownership of those MOS.”
But that was only a few years ago. I’d say if your unit was SOCOM when you were in it you can say you were in SOCOM because that was true at the time.
Another issue here, aside from Stolen Valor, is false advertisment. While technically you were in a Special Operations unit, the case could be made that you are misrepresenting your service to the country. Also once you leave the Army, at least per USMC, Special Operations is what the Army considers Special Forces. And anyone in a Special Operations unit would be considered a high speed ground fighting element or in support of the aforementioned element.
Judging from the reaction to your “Bio” from military members, its obvious your Bio, while maybe unintentional, is misleading.
We have poseurs here in DC that claim that they were SF, Ranger, and even 82nd when the dates and units named on their resume just don’t add up. How do you get the DD214 on these folks to verify their claims and out poseurs? When I wrote to the NARA/MPRD folks using a FOIA request for a blatant fake lawyer-type, they denied it saying that I need the individual’s social security number or they cannot find it. Any ideas?
OK…I’m a retired 39C (Civil Affairs) Officer and here’s my take on this. Yeah…I retired almost 10 years before CA became a branch in the Regular Army. 1. When she (and her husband) served in a USAR CA Battalion, the Army Reserve CA force structure was, in fact, part of the overall SOF community, as were USAR PSYOP (now MISO) units. 2. Since the mid 2000s, based on a decision by then SECDEF Rumsfeld, USAR CA and PSYOP/MISO units were moved from the USSOCOM/USASOC community and placed in FORSCOM, specifically under US Army Reserve Command. They were then designated as Conventional Forces. USAR CA and MISO Officers and NCOs still undergo their training at 1st Special Warfare Training Group, FBNC, alongside their Regular Army CA and MISO brothers and sisters, as USASOC/USACAPOC/JFKSWC&S are still the proponent for CA and MISO training. 3. Intent was for the USAR CA force to support conventional Army units, with the 95th CA Bde (Abn) focused on support to other ARSOF units, JSOTFs, CJSOTFs, etc. However, you will still see Regular Army CA units from the 95th supporting conventional units from time to time to fill the gap between alert, deployment and arrival on station by USAR CA units. It’s a fact of life… 4. Based on the late 80s time-line, Ms. Gamble and her husband were, in fact, assigned to a Special Operations unit. That said, a whole lot of ass pain could have been avoided if she had indicated they met and served in a USAR Civil Affairs unit which was part of the Special Operations community, or words to that effect. 5. Final thought: I was and remain proud of the fact that I served as part of the US Special Operations Community. But I always alert folks to the fact that I wore a Red Beret, and served in the 96th CA Bn (Abn). Not in SF, not the Rangers Regt., and certainly not in a SMU. Observing others’ experiences has taught me that quibbling about such matters can, and often does, lead to misunderstanding, embarrassment and a whole lot of… Read more »
Well put Spigot.
The semantic issue does seem to be the biggest one here.
The unit from which I retired had earlier had a “Special Operations” mission, so everyone in the unit at the time was legitimately in a “Special Operations” unit. That included the cooks, the payroll folks, the clinic, and everyone else on base. None of them were SF. (Well, actually, I really don’t know. None that I know of, but I wasn’t there.)
So, yes, we seem to have some confusion about the use of the term. The folks I know from the old days just said that they were a cook or a payroll clerk, or whatever back in the day.
Wait wait wait….
“My DD214 would not reflect this either, although some awards and CAB”
Ok, WHERE and WHEN did she earn a CAB? IIRC, that was not awarded back to her service time.
Or am I missing something?
THAT could be quite an egregious statement right there…
@70… I believe you got that from my earlier post. I was describing my view on this issue and where I come from in including my military service in my legal bio… If this was me taking this kind of scrutiny, I would have submitted my CAB/awards paperwork to prove that while my MOS was different, I was on the ground with the tabbed and trained men in the unit. I would not have gone so haphazardly ballistic.
Anon–again, as with the words of Charles Swindoll, “I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it.”
Was it a nitpicking point? Yeah, kinda. Did she overreact? Damn skippy. So do I feel bad questioning the bona fides of someone who claims to be “Special Operations,” knowing what the TYPICAL civilian would be to the phrase in question? Not at all.
My former (thank God) Congresswoman had a nasty habit of doing that as well when referring to her (and I quote), “Vietnam era veteran husband.” The implication in such a statement was clear in that she somehow had credibility in veteran’s issues because of her husband’s service, but for one problem–he did two years at Fitzsimmons AMC back in the early/mid 70’s, and ever went overseas, even on TAD.
Of course, this is the same woman who claimed to have VFW support when it was in fact the VFW PAC, even after the VFW had pulled all support from all candidates. So you can see where I might be a little curious when people make claims, especially when serving in completely unrelated fields in an area (in Gamble’s case, Northern California) which isn’t the most receptive to the military.
All this being said, I thank Mrs. Gamble for her service, but for future reference, to please be more clear about the nature of said service. No SV, no phony, just be a little more clear.
#63 Lucky,
I was doing the designs using the doctrine for CA and the rowdies-formerly-known-as-PSYOP. As of a few months ago, CA couldn’t possibly get more IO. Back in 1997, when I was but a wee captain in the Division plans shop, CA and PSYOP (and PAO, kicking and screaming and undermining) were employed as IO.
It’s been a hard, bitter pill to swallow for many in the CA/PSYOP (MISO) community. Which is probably why AQ runs a better IO campaign than we do.
@71- so you have a CAB? When is it from? The 214 shown here doesn’t cover a period when a CAB is awarded..IIRC.
If I’m missing something, I apologize in advance…
It seems this whole Stolen Valor vigilante thing has gotten out of hand. This is second I have seen on this site in recent weeks where all the facts were not in line with the story. I recommend the bloggers get their facts straight before outing some random individual. It does more harm than good.
@Mr Wolf: You are responding to a different attorney, not the one in this post, Kelly Gamble. See Post #33.
Coming in late to this argument. Yes, Reserve units werer transferred out of Special Operations Command. However, this is what the Army said:
“Under the plan, USASOC was to retain proponency for Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations — including doctrine, combat development and institutional training. Additionally, the 95th Civil Affairs Brigade (Provisional) and the 4th Psychological Operations Group were to remain assigned to USASOC.”
Elements of 4th PsyOps (now called something or other MISO) are in fact Airborne and are still under the command of SOCOM. At least they were when I was at Bragg last week.
On Fort Bragg’s webpage, the Organizations list takes you here ( http://www.soc.mil/ ) to the USASOC page, which lists the 95th CA and 4th MSIO as part of the outfit. As of now.
Just saying.
Why did she include in her rant a link to specialoperations.com ?
That’s like some kind of tacticaltailor.com or some civilian website. It would’ve had more validity if she included something concrete with a .mil or .gov domain.
My BF was on an oda with 20th group which is a National Guard unit and he just told me that CA and Psyops are considered Special Operations and that he went to the same BNCOC as Psyops and CA guys out at Mackall, although they didn’t make them do all the hard rucks and thier rucks had to be 35 pounds while the SF guys had to be 65 pounds.. It looks like you owe this woman and her family an apology Lilyea
DaveO, once again, having been in the CA community for just shy of a decade, we have nothing to do with IO aside from writing reports to higher. You’re having once been a Captain a while ago, and blah blah blah about the doctrine having worked at Division, guess what? Division G9 has very little to do aside from managing high level CERP projects and nothing to do with actual CA missions, therefore your Shit is weak, thanks for playing…..
Anon, Jonn has a valid argument here as well, why don’t we all stop kicking this severely dead horse and move on with our lives?
Lucky,
Thanks for not engaging your brain. I didn’t say I did the designs for CA and PSYOP/MISO as a captain somewhere in a tactical HQ. I did it as a contractor working for TRADOC as it worked through IO, its components (and the subsequent turf war among the TRADOC COE over who’d butcher this cash cow).
Frankly, given the overall lack of success in those units, my recommendation was to scrap them for more maneuver and fires battalions.
That then renders your argument even more invalid, as it shows your ignorance toward what we do as an MOS, the sheer diversity of what we do, and what we bring to the table. Scrap us, and maneuver units loose their rapport with the locals and when they accidentally kill a kid, they have no real way to re-establish a good working rapport to the locals. That shows the TRADOC mindset, and that is not highly regarded outside TRADOC in tactical units, once again, thanks for playing…
TRADOC is not the one that maintains our proficiency, theerforeyou loose any and all credibility DaveO
*proponency
Lilyea is just another witch hunt
just on another witch hunt lol!!
FWIW, I’m a current (not retired) member of the military, have been for more than a few years and like most of you all I hate ass-hats who make claims on what other folks actually have done with a passion. This guy – http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=24149 is for certain an asshat faker making HUGE claims But Ms Gamble (Murphy) makes a claim that to my eye, with 18+ years across Active, Guard and unfortunately Reserve service is legitimate. Seems like some of you folks are confused about Special Operations (Special Operations Command). There were at least two times between about 1996-7 and 2005’ish when it looked like my civilian employment would require relocation to another state. Being a former infantry guy now in a support unit, (CSS technically) I was bored and my 1SG suggested checking into a CA unit that he had formerly been part of. Although I was eventually able to avoid having to relocate my family, both times that I checked with the CA unit about transfering into their unit and doing a re-class some of the selling points that the 79V, 1SG as well as the Company Cdr used were, “Hey we are part of the Special Operations community and thus we get more funding for schools and more ‘real-world’ missions… you’ll be too busy with us to be bored!” (paraphrasing there) There are scads of military briefings at DTIC.mil and on AKO and in various open source publications that back up the fact that CA was part of SOC and seems like the “S.O.” in SOC stands for Special Operations. She made no claims to being “Special Forces” or an “18-whatever” or anything that red-flagged it in my eyes. She’s proud of her service. She’s proud of her affiliation with an elite unit. And with the info presented here, I can see nothing wrong with what she posted. I have a question for some of you, including the owner of this blog… In 3 or 4 years or more when one of these girls (http://www.soc.mil/swcs/cst/index.htm) writes a book or posts a Linked In profile or some such… Read more »
Thank you RH!
RH just owned all of you
And on that note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzbr6fPDmkE
“But what about Special Forces?”
“FUCK SPECIAL FORCES!!!”
There is something called the goddamn constitution and the bill of rights and the first amendment folks and defending that is one reason why I joined and why I continue to serve.
Then you would also realize that the Constitution only deals with CONGRESS not restricting free speech, and let’s not forget that just because you can say anything you want (and there are limits on that) it doesn’t insulate you from criticism when you make an ass of yourself.
Again, I probably would have glossed over this thread had Ms. Gamble not felt the need to dive head-first into the shitpile she herself created.
Lol nice Sparky, nice! And you hit it out of the park as well
What RH said.
What the fuck is wrong with you people? She used the word “assigned” not the words “a member of”, and she did not claim to be an SF troop, or SF qualified. There are lots of non-SF types assigned to SO units.
Get the fuck over yourselves, you’re not the goddamned arbiters of who gets to use what terms to categorize what they did in the military. You’re a bunch of sorry old fucks who need to move the fuck on.
Keep patting yourselves on the back, you’re doing a real service shaking down and harassing people like Mrs. Gamble, who actually served and deployed somewhere. Fucking pathetic…
A little more educational material.
http://www.bragg.army.mil/sorb/CA.htm
This is the second post in about a week that has really stretched to demonstrate willful malfeasance (Mancuso was the other). This is a popular blog that is highly optimized on the search engines. Mancuso’s legacy and now Gamble will forever have this online black mark against honorable service where there is no compelling evidence of willfully lying. And Gamble hasn’t lied at all. She is, however, guilty of poor grammar, unprofessionalism, lacking in common sense, and comes across as rather stupid. But none of that has to so with her military service or claims thereof… Just how she handled this mess. Bottom line is that additional research should go into these posts when it’s not obvious based on the evidence. Mancuso (I think that was his name) turned out to be legit for the most part, and there was no evidence that the rest was an innocent error by the family or even developed after he lost his mental faculties. Gamble flat out is legit. By the time the comments generally resolve the issue, it’s too late. POWNet issues apologies and is very responsible, this blog should follow that example and continue to expose the liars and fakes when it is unquestionable and thoroughly researched.
Kumbaya…. everyone.
Yes, it all comes full circle.
As NotSoOldMarine touched upon, if Mrs. Kelly AKA multiple other handles hadn’t come to this website full of pure demonic hate and hollow threats, I’m sure it would have eventually played out in her favor.
But her rhetoric not only turned people against her, it’s the kind of behavior which further raises red flags.
Threatening to take legal action, or threatening to take matters to another entity, is usually the hallmark of posers like the recent ‘chippendale.’
OG is back. You’re boyfriend is an ODA? really? Does he slap his forehead every time you spout idiocy?
you know what? Opps, maybe she didn’t “fake it” but it’s still shady. Not going to apollogize, cuz I’ve said from the beginning I don’t like when people come close to this line. She played up what she knew people would think. Most of us that are in KNOW better. YES CA is SOC, WE GET IT. But saying “special operations” to a layman, they’ll think you did something on the level of the Chipendale SEAL, and killed libyans or some shit.
I was in the “Rangers” (2/16 Infantry look it up) and I could *technically* say I was a Ranger for 8 months. But I KNOW people would assume I was in the 75th. Its not so. I never earned the Tab, I’ve not been to RIP, but I was TECHNICALLY a Ranger. (yes TECHNICALLY Ward Rielly was too, but that guy actually crossed over into SV, so that’s a bad example) Its the same principle.
FYI-“checking the nutritional value of the local puppy chow” isn’t an accurate description of what Veterinary Food Inspectors do.
In the military, food inspection services are overseen by veterinarians. They (and the enlisted food inspectors) go to any food processing plant that supplies the military for inspections above and beyond those completed by USDA and also inspect all commissaries and on base/post food establishments. Any canned, packaged or prepared food that is distributed to military personnel comes from a supplier the “puppy chow” inspectors visit multiple times per year.
Check out this link for more information.
Here is the link on the veterinary food inspectors:
http://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/browse-career-and-job-categories/medical-and-emergency/veterinary-food-inspection-specialist.html