Surprise! Gays want more.
ROS and VTWoody send a link to an article in the Houston Chronicle which reports that which we knew all along. That the repeal of DADT was not a goal, it was a first step towards the military acceptance of everything related to being gay;
“We don’t want to be the ones who are the wet blankets of the movement, but at the same time we also want to be the instigators of the movement,” Heather Cronk, managing director of Get Equal, said in a telephone interview from Washington, D.C. “We’ll celebrate for 10 minutes and we’ll get right back to work.”
Protests, rallies and community conversations were planned by Get Equal on Tuesday in about a dozen cities across the country, including Boston, San Francisco and Laramie, Wyo. Nationwide celebrations marking the end of the policy commonly known as “don’t ask, don’t tell” were also planned by a variety of other groups, including one in downtown Norfolk.
A handful of protesters organized by Get Equal set up near Naval Station Norfolk before dawn with balloons and signs, including one that said “The repeal of DADT is not enough!”
Yeah, it’s not enough to have “equal rights” – they want special protections for their lifestyle and rights that won’t be afforded to heterosexuals. They want total acceptance of their deviant lifestyle. Gays want the right to be like mealy-mouthed Dan Choi and punch their subordinates in the chest without retribution and chain themselves to the White House fence in uniform without facing the charges in court.
Category: Military issues
@47 – “But, back to the founding of this country. It whether you want to admit it or nor was founded on christian beliefs.”
I haven’t disputed to sets of values that guided the founding of the nation.
What I would argue against – and this is tangentially related to this issue…is that biblical tenets shouldn’t be codified unless they also had a secular value. You are free to dictate your own moral code. You shouldn’t be free to dictate that to others [except in cases of theft, harm, etc..]
“That is not possible with openly gay troops inside a tank.”
“Sure it is. It’s already been part of the equation”.
See Bulldog, even though the commenter said he was infantry, he apparently knows better what goes on inside a tank than anyone else.
@49,
I’m afraid of that too. I hope what it boils down to is training that goes across the board–telling people to lay off the derogatory comments, i.e. not terribly appropriate to summon someone by hollering “Hey, dicksmoker” just as they probably told the guys on my ship not to yell “Hey, sugartits”. And to tell people that even though its ok not to hide the fact you’re gay there’s no reason to turn it into a political statement or power play. The one thing everyone better pay attention to though is not making false accusations. I think that’s what’s going to bite everyone in the ass (no pun intended).
As far as personal descriptions go, you’re example made me laugh–it’s so awful it’s funny! Knowing the military, they will come up with new acronyms for race, gender, and sexual orientation. Or a alphanumerical classification system. Let’s see…I was a nuclear mechanical operator-supervisor, female, straight. That would make me a 3395-F-S. :p
@52 – “See Bulldog, even though the commenter said he was infantry, he apparently knows better what goes on inside a tank than anyone else.”
Gays have been serving since the beginning of the military…would you like to attempt the argument that no gay Soldier has served as a Tanker? That would be a stretch even for your fantastic rhetorical license.
Haha Bulldog I think you are right
Whether I like it or it is here. I am 43, I will be dead in 40 years give or take a few years for my use of beer and tobacco. This is truly something for the younger generation to deal with. They will be dealing with these decisions for many years to come. The good, bad and ugly of it.
Squidthoughts,
I guess I am now a 19k30k4/EA/S/M/O40, M1-A2SEP SSG, European American, Straight, Male, over 40. They are going to have to make larger blocks on the NCOER Forms.
J; I’m still waiting for 2 same sex people to procreate.
CI; One thing that overrides the whole religious aspect is that we all have a moral compass and the vast majority of this nation and the world is not homosexual. In fact; the numbers of those that are is very minute on the grand scale. If civilians want to be gay and all and proclaim it to the world; fine, knock yourselves out, but you and I know that when you join the military, you abide by a different set of rules than your civilian counterpart, which includes infringement on your 1st Amendment rights (no publicly talking bad about the Commander in Chief) and your rights to privacy, amongst many others. Those that promote openly gay service as civilians don’t have to share their shower time with openly gay people. It’s much easier to promote what they aren’t willing to do themselves. You give that up the second you raise your hand and sign on the line. Yhere are a lot of things that could be done and I have mentioned them right here several times, but no one wants to listen, they prefer to continue with moral relativism as a defense and telling the majority straight folk to suck it up, so to speak. Serving is not a right, it is a privilege.
I am not running off. I have to go get some oil leases notarized and fed-ex out some stuff. (gotta get paid)
I’ll be back
Bulldog,
Your new code is perfect! Love it. See how much more streamlined the process would be? I mean, except for the increase in box size on the forms which means more paper, which means more personnelmen to file them, and more training on the classification system, which means more billets for training officers and staff, …hmm. *mutter*
@59,
You are already in trouble. PERSONNELMEN????? Can we please change that to “personel worker who could be of any gender, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, marital status, and any other group who may have been inadvertantly left out without any intent on my behalf of intentionally doing so”?
Never understood the whole argument that we lose soo many combat experienced people due to DADT witchhunts.
EVERY single Homosexual I saw in the Army who was discharged for their proclivities Outed themselves.
To Avoid Deployment- to Iraq/Afghanistan
To Avoid Duty Station- didnt like USMA West Point,or Ft.Drum
To Avoid Duty- Didnt like field duty
They either wanted out period or didn’t want to be a Soldier and go where told, didn’t like their base, and as Homosexuals knew they had a get out of deployment free card by sashaying into the Bn HQ and outing themselves
Now the will be another Army Protected Species
@60,
Dangit! Ok, how about “Personnel-peep”? Or would that be offensive to easter candy? Or dentists?? Or people who don’t believe in easter??? AAAARRGGHH!!
“would you like to attempt the argument that no gay Soldier has served as a Tanker? ” Talk about “fantastic rhetorical license”. Where did I ever say a gay had not served in a tank? Matter of fact, where in post #52, did I say anything about gays, other than to quote someone else’s post?
Your line of reasoning(?) is that a.gays have always served, b. there are tanks, c.Therefore, gays have served in tanks. While it may be true, you have no proof that your take on this is the correct one, only your own brand of reasoning. But, that’s much like any comment you make, your position is the right one, and everyone who doesn’t agree with you is usually wrong.
Between headhuntersix talking about assless ACUs, all this talk about gay tankers and a chippendale navy seal, I am about to go throw up.
🙂 lol
Bulldog–new billet opening for a chippendale Navy SeAL outfitted in assless ACU’s to drive a tank to Libya, over the mountains and through the woods to Qaddaffi’s house and ventilate him. Back in time for Fashion Week in NYC.
@57 – “and the vast majority of this nation and the world is not homosexual. In fact; the numbers of those that are is very minute on the grand scale.”
Agreed. But be careful about this line of reasoning carrying the weight you give it. Acquiescing to majority rule is only attractive when you’re the majority. And perhaps my vision of conservatism is skewed [it certainly is according to the GOP] but the personal liberty to succeed or fail based on your individual qualities, is a fundamental tenet of the ideology.
“You give that up the second you raise your hand and sign on the line.”
You’ve brought this up before and I’ve agreed. But the window has closed. You’re arguing over a past paradigm.
“…but no one wants to listen, they prefer to continue with moral relativism as a defense and telling the majority straight folk to suck it up, so to speak.”
Aside from the fact that nearly every argument is based on moral relativism, the term usually only gets trotted out as an epithet……you seem to be arguing from a position that the existence of known homosexuals is somehow injurious to straights…..but you haven’t really spelled out why.
“Serving is not a right, it is a privilege.”
Again agreed. If you had a logical argument that explained why homosexuals should be denied the privilege to openly serve their nation, it would be a bit more compelling.
Hahahaha In a George Tekei voice “Oh Myyyyy!”
Squid–you got a pretty good sense of humor, for a skimmer puke.
You Swabbie’s all seem to have a decent sense of humor and Cryer doesn’t count, just like Choi doesn’t for us
Sparky–thanks, shipmate. I give myself lolz sometimes.
And lucky: we have to find the funny or we’d implode in the purgatorial hell that is a gulf deployment in mid-summer; inhaling a toxic mix of ass, ship/boat funk, fuel fumes, and brass cleaner; served peanut butter with no bread at midrats; and in Sparky’s case at least, having to share your rack with the guy who ate chili mac 5 times in 3 days. Heaven.
Man, I miss hanging out with military folks. I am stuck in a civilian world with people who think I am a caveman.
Bulldog,
I leave for a little while and now we’re talking about assles ACU’s and gay tankers? (these guys must not know about the assflap in Nomex!) Sheesh, I can’t leave you alone anywhere!!
I forgot about the one time use velcro ass flaps. Thanks alot. you never could get those damn things to fit back together correctly. After 3 months of not washing them the flap would randomly fall down. HAHA
@Bulldog, I thought Tankers and Cavemen were first cousins or something 😉 haha and Squid, I know the feeling, Iraq in 09-10 was similar, we got there, and were told CA missions were stopping, and there really was no mission for us. I mean, really? Instead of sending the majority of us home, we were stuck while bad leadership tried to define a new mission and we were left to inhale fumes from the burn pit over there, among other things, and humor definitely helps pass the time!
I dont doubt that I am a caveman.
I have a n armsroom in my closet (I still dont have enough guns yet) and everyone I work with has a closet full of golf clubs. They talk about going to the country club or city club and trying a new wine. I talk about going shoot something, then BBQing and drinking beer.
All Combat Arms are knuckledraggers at heart.
@Bulldog, Golf clubs are kinda gay, I would much rather talk about the merits of Glock vs. Sig Sauer, or the accuracy of my CMP M-1 Garand (from the last production run, circa 1955) with my GF, who loves to shoot, and be drinking a good single malt and eating some form of red meat. Thats about as far from gay little country clubs as one can get
Better a knuckledragger than a window licker or mouth breather, right Bulldog?
I did try golf for a little while. Very exspensive. My wife told me to chose between guns and golf. Guns won. Besides, I had to scream fore way to many times. You need to wear a kevlar and IBAS if you are playing anywhere close to me.
Sold the clubs and bought another pistol.
I tried for an M1 last christmas. Maybe this year. I keep hinting to her and dragging her to the local gunshop, but not yet. Last time I brought her to hint about an M1, she walked out with a new Ruger LCR .38
>he might ogle everyone’s junk in the shower and getting a raging hard-on. He might tell you how hot he thinks you are. He might climb on top of you while you’re sleeping. He might rape you.
You haven’t been listening then, because there are bigger implications then “whose junk is being looked at.” First and foremost, this is a “back door” way of having DOMA repealed. There is also the fact that the administration had the military survey results written up before three days before the military even took it(see the inspector general report that supports this)..
http://cmrlink.org/CMRDocuments/DoD_IG-040811.pdf
Also that fact that the administration hasn’t even told us all the DADT tell rules, and the Chaplain Corp has been asking for clarification. It is going to have to have lasting detrimental effects on the chaplain corp.
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/ChaplainAllianceCongressLetter.pdf
Those are just two long lasting implications.. and it certainly isn’t whose “junk is being looked at.”
@Bulldog, try the CMP
melle–I agree that there are bigger implications in the repeal of DADT. However, it is a done deal. For the politicians, the media, and the nation at large they can make it about the DOMA or an intellectual argument about personal rights and equality. But for ground-level servicemembers, it all boils down to how they feel about the guy standing next to them. Trust is vital to military unit cohesion. If there is a loss of trust then the whole structure breaks down. And unfortunately, for a lot of males, that trust vanishes if they are afraid of what another guy might do with their penis. I’m sorry to put it in such base terms, but at the level where this repeal is going to be seen on a very real basis, that’s how it works. Your average joe-soldier/sailor/marine/airman doesn’t give two cents about the DOMA during a deployment or hostile engagement. They don’t care about who will or won’t get allowance for family housing, or if everyone is getting equal opportunities. And every current and former servicemember knows that DOD survey was a bunch of BS. The problem was and will be political interference in the military structure. Change for the sake of change, not because it will make the military stronger and better. If the repeal of DADT is to work, it will work because the military does what it has always done: adapt, improvise, and overcome.
“THEY WANT TOTAL ACCEPTANCE OF THEIR DEVIANT LIFESTYLE”
Seriously, Jonn? Are you saying that being gay = a deviant lifestyle? I always kind of thought of you as a bit close-minded, but that just takes the cake.
>The problem was and will be political interference in the military structure. If the repeal of DADT is to work, it will work because the military does what it has always done: adapt, improvise, and overcome.
I couldn’t agree more!
@82 – Squidthoughts
Very well stated.
@66: “Again agreed. If you had a logical argument that explained why homosexuals should be denied the privilege to openly serve their nation, it would be a bit more compelling.”
I thought I made that very clear about shower and latrine assignments. Obviously not.
If they want to openly serve, segregate the barracks, as they do for females. Quick, easy, effective. That’s not what they want, though. Did anyone bother to ask the troops what they wanted or what solutions could be garnered? No, but they sure did listen to the gays, gay activists, and those that don’t have to live under what they are forcing.
Is it a moot point at this stage? I guess so. I guess it’s time to pop open the bubbly and pat ourselves on the back for being so sophisticated.
@83. If he’s not, I am. Yes, it’s deviant. It’s perverse. It’s unnatural. It’s disgusting. It’s sick. I think that about covers it for now.
@87,
AMEN
@86 – “I thought I made that very clear about shower and latrine assignments.”
Somewhere up above, I stated that I thought there were points of this issue that were certainly, and rightfully, debatable. This is one of them.
We appear to have differing standards of injurious however.
“If the repeal of DADT is to work, it will work because the military does what it has always done: adapt, improvise, and overcome.” Good point, Squidthoughts, with the caveat, that the DoD, SecDef and White House will trumpet to the four corners, well, OK, to New York and San Fran, that the repeal has worked, because of the leadership of the Won. Which brings us right back to the interference of the politicos, which started this fustercluck in the first place.
And, #87, that about covers it.
Jax: let’s follow Liberal “Logic” If we follow Evolution and Darwinism, then being gay IS in fact deviant and not likely to lead positive outcomes in offspring. This is of course assuming (like it is said) that you are BORN gay and that its not a choice.
but I tend to find it deviant if you ever see some of the bizarre shit they do to achieve “tolerance” committing sacrilege and obtaining the Eucharist, practicing every cringing taboo they can think of (yes San Fransisco there). being EXTREMELY intolerant of the LDS, and Catholic church. . . yes there’s a lot of deviants there.
Ask yourself this, why was AIDS originally thought to be a “gay disease” Even now, when new AIDS infection is rare, who are the most common people getting it? Why do you think that is? That virus isn’t airborne so its not a pandemic that “just happens” like influenza. There have to be behaviors associated with its spread.
Now really now lets ask a question that’s even more important: what comes with the DADT repeal? will the NEW considerations of peoples feelings (because apparently the gays are MORE fragile than females, psychologically speaking, according to the press). and really this was all about gay marriage, no one REALLY gives a shit about gays in the military. At least not anybody that isn’t IN the military. so again WHY is this so important?
somehow The Onion is no longer the place for this ‘news’.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/firstever-gay-dear-john-letters-begin-reaching-us,26123/
If gays become another protected class then we are done. It has never been about acceptance. That is the ‘front’ to get most sheeple on board in the spirit of ‘fairness’.
You know, I deployed with a guy who was as queer as a football bat, but he was one tough SOB. I didn’t know he was gay until he got out and I invited him to a BBQ for the 4th. He showed up and was as flaming as a Buddhist protester. He supported DADT because what you did in your bedroom was your business and nobody should have to know about it.