Just Shoot This Bastard Now!
He was convicted three years ago for an act that can only be characterized as treason during a time of war.
Simple disposition of case: SHOOT HIM!
WASHINGTON — A Navy lawyer sentenced to six months behind bars for sending the names of Guantanamo Bay detainees to a human-rights attorney is set to appeal his conviction to the U.S. military’s highest court.
Oral arguments were scheduled Tuesday morning before the U.S. Armed Forces Court of Appeals in Washington.
The case involves Lt. Cmdr. Matthew Diaz, of Topeka, Kan. He was convicted in 2007 of communicating secret information that could be used to injure the United States, and leaking information to unauthorized personnel.
The names were in an unsigned valentine to a Center for Constitutional Rights lawyer.
Diaz said before his conviction that leaking the names was right because the detainees were being mistreated. But he said at his sentencing that his actions were cowardly.
Category: Politics
Joe, the only thing I saw that could be considered mistreatment, not torute, was the duct taped yapper of a detainee. Other than that, 99% of military people have been through worse in training. If you think that some nancy-boy tango getting upset by someone squatting over the top of his holy book is torture, well, then you might fit in with the nancy-boys. Don’t worry, though, because the military that you bitch about will protect your nancy-boy ass from all those bad guys that you don’t have the intestinal fortitude to defend yourself against.
Does that make me a big meanie? Do I care?
Well OldTrooper,
It’s one thing to be in training, and know that you are in training. It’s another to be 5,000 miles from home in a dark cell, away from family and friends for years, sleep deprived, cold, in fear. Plus torture doesn’t work! I don’t even think we should torture the bad guys, but especially the poor innocent peasants who got caught up in some kind of dragnet. I would like to see how you would react after a few years of confinment, where you were whisked away without warning and put in those circumstances. I doubt you would have the same level of bravado.
Joe said: “Torture doesn’t work.”
If that is true, how in hell did Uday and Kushay, or how in hell ever they spelled their names, get so much information using a DeWalt 18 volt rechargeable drill on people? If Torture doesn’t work why in hell did Khalid Sheik MoHAMmed get the oral shits while working on his Caribbe suntan?
Joe, I have no idea if you have ever felt the need to “do the right thing”, and pull a tour or two of duty in Sam’s Military machine, but you come off as one who has been no closer than your PlayStation wargames.
I cannot imagine what it would take for you to gain the first smidgeon of respect here, so just get back to the Kool-ade and kick back for awhile.
Nuf Sed
FranklyOpinionated,
Oh, you can get people to talk with torture, it’s just that the quality of the information sucks. And many experts believe there are many more productive (and moral) methods. As for serving, I don’t think they take people who are 60 years old and I definitely did not want to serve in Viet Nam back in the day. My father fought the Germans and Japanese in WW II, and I respect the military. I do realize the need for a robust defense, and I support legitimate missions (read: Afghanistan). I stumbled upon this site via a link from some other site, and came back hoping to get more understanding (and respect?)for the military mindset, but instead, among the occasionsl well-reasoned postings, I’ve found rabidly, irrationally conservative viewpoints and some downright scary, selfish, chauvinistic, and brutal mindsets.
Joe, dude, you have no idea what you are talking about. Your statement that “I’ve found rabidly, irrationally conservative viewpoints and some downright scary, selfish, chauvinistic, and brutal mindsets.” is a metrosexual’s wet dream.
Do you have a number of how many “innocents” were whisked away in the middle of the night? No, you don’t, but it sounds good when you are getting all metrosexual with your latte sipping metrosexual buddies. Man up already, nancy-boy. Just because you can’t take any physical discomfort doesn’t mean everyone is like you. Have you seen pictures of the conditions our troops were in during the initial invasion of Iraq? Do you know what it’s like to have 80lbs. of gear on and be on a patrol in 110 degree heat, or humping through the mountains, living in a makeshift outpost with scraps of plywood and cardboard that vaguely resemble walls? Where the temp gets a little frigid for days and weeks on end, like in Afghanistan? No, you don’t and you never will, because you would last all of 10 Airborne seconds (if you don’t know how many seconds that is, ask Jonn, Frankly, COB6, etc.)in training for such conditions.
Pardon me if I don’t share the same level of sympathy that you do towards people that get 3 hots and a cot, plus are allowed other accomodations.
As for my bravado; it’s more about mental toughness and determination than bravado. Something else you will never understand.
Also, Joe, I doubt that if I were “whisked away in the middle of the night” by our enemies I would be concerned about a cold or hot floor, since I would be dead before I had been in captivity a month, probably due to them removing my head from my neck after disemboweling me for shits and giggles.
OldTrooper,
Some of the conditions you describe are what I do for fun. I hauled an 70 lb. pack across the Rocky Mountains for 6 weeks at 10-13,000 feet (and walked across the old ,abandoned 10th Mtn. Division’s Camp Hale in the process). Walls? You talk about walls? I don’t need no stinking walls. I’ve taken multi-day trips in the Rockies in mid-winter. I’ve hung by my fingernails from 1,000 ft. above the ground with scant protection. I’ve run across the Grand Canyon in mid-summer. Having lived in the desert, I’ve done death-march style hikes/climbs in remote country, and 100 mile bike rides in 100° F heat. Admittedly, no one is shooting at me when I do these things, but I am no wuss. I do understand self-reliance and mental toughness. But I don’t understand how someone can be OK with putting innocent people (mixed in with some really nasty people of course) in prison with no recourse. And torture hurts us in the long run more than any immediate advantage we might gain. There is always blowback, physical and ethical, from behaviors like these.
“They they will have to explain themselves (to the Committee). Nothing should be kept in the dark,’ he said.” regarding the “admission” of torture by the US. This, according to an “unnamed source” in the UN. So someone who won’t go on the record is an unimpeachable source, one who allegedly works for the UN? Come on Joey, even a latte lib like you can do better than that. Seriously.
And, I’ve taken multi-day trips to the coffee shop, while hanging by my fingernails from the edge of a picnic table, all the while ducking and weaving to keep the black-clad ninja, cpa’s from drawing a bead on me. Wow.
And you’re saying that every one locked up at Gitmo is an “innocent goat herd”? Cuz that’s what #45 looks like to me. I note that you didn’t address the fact that your “better 100 men” bs doesn’t apply to this. Seems you have a a habit of side-stepping anything that doesn’t fit in your own little world view.
Joe:
You wrote: “I don’t think they take people who are 60 years old and I definitely did not want to serve in Viet Nam back in the day.”
I doubt they would take my old ass either, but that you “definitely did not want to serve in Viet Nam,,,,,,,” says volumes about your character. Were you waiting in Oakland for the returning troops then? Did you have a poster of Hanoi Jane Fonda hanging on your wall?
Nuf Sed
JOE:
What in hell does that rant in #57 have to do with Enemy Combatants and America’s Heroes?
I have done most of that while with my then 12 year old son. I have also throttled an Ocean Racer across the ocean at speeds to 122 MPH. Raced Motorcycles from Houston to Nawlins, but that ain’t shit compared to a GI having to watch his back while being careful not to hurt un armed civilians, (which is a controversy in and of itself).
I still haven’t read of the description of torture that you are so quick to suggest happened. And what most libs call torture, we call “interrogation”, or in the case of the US troops, “Training”.
Bet I have done more risky shit than you, in or out of the service.
Nuf Sed
Back on point, I’m not sure what Diaz’s other options were, probably limited, but under the circumstances I understand why he did what he did. There are unusual situations where the correct thing to do is break the rules. We’ve all seen “The Caine Mutiny”. The mutineers were ultimately acquitted, but it was an ugly ending. Likewise with the Diaz case. At Nuremburg, we hung Nazis for following illegal orders – we should not chastise Diaz for doing what we executed Goering and Von Ribbentrop for not doing.
Joe, I do not say this lightly, but…SHUT UP. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. First, Diaz had options if he thought people were being “tortured” – he simply chose not to pursue those options. Primarily, he could have reported it up his chain of command; as we see in the SEAL 3 case, the military is pretty sensitive to claims of abuse. If, and only if, pursuing the matter correctly did not yield results, should he have taken the steps he took at the outset. Failure to pursue legal options vitiates any defense of necessity he may argue. If we are all honest, we will recognize that he sent the names in anonymously because he did not want to put his career at risk by voicing concerns. Rather, he chose to divulge classified information to the exact people who would use it to weaken this country. Second, the men being help in Gitmo aren’t being kept there for the hell of it. They have had a chance to talk with the military and many, some of them incorrectly, have been released. In fact, some are being held for their own safety because there is no place to send them where there are any assurances they won’t be tortured – and if you suggest we let them loose in the USA, please provide your address because we will ship them straight to your house. I am sure you will be glad to help out. I wouldn’t go to sleep if I were you, but that is another matter. Third, the military is not a movie. The men and women in the military, including those stationed at Gitmo make very tough decisions everyday that they have to live with for the rest of their lives. There are rules in place for a reason. Those who choose not to follow those rules after choosing to join the military must fact the consequences of their decisions, because the men and women around them will surely have to as well. In short, if you cannot back up your arguments with more… Read more »
Thank you for a moment of clarity.
“Third, the military is not a movie.”
Joe…I spent the last part of my career treating Veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan. My other patients included Corpsmen who served at GITMO. Not ONE…ONE patient talked about the mistreatment of detainees. They did talk about what the detainees did to them and how there was NO RETALIATION RULES. The Marine Guards and the Corspmen were powerless to retaliate when attacked by these Mooj SOB’S. They also complained that the detainee’s were treated better than they were, recieved many special privledges, and actually even ate better than the military. These patients knew me and knew they could speak in complete confidence that I wouldn’t turn them in if they related mistreatment to me. All laughed everytime I asked them if they saw mistreatment of prisoners. It usually was about the only time they laughed about their experience. You continue to buy what the “useful idiots” sell you. I’ll trust what those that were been there, done that, say. Just like my service in Vietnam. When I got home I heard all the horror stories of what we did to “innocents”. In my whole tour I saw us doing only kindness to the Vietnamese People. I include the enemy in this as it was a kindness to send him/her into the infernal region. My Civil Actions Medal is one of my favorites.
Honor and Courage
Well Susan, I won’t “keep it to myself just to please you. You sound like an armchair lawyer – ever hear of the 1st amendment?
Here are some other opinions of Guantanamo:
Amnesty Int’l: “gulag of our times”
Lord Steyn: “a monstrous failure of justice,” because “… The military will act as interrogators, prosecutors and defense counsel, judges, and when death sentences are imposed, as executioners. The trials will be held in private. None of the guarantees of a fair trial need be observed.”
Thomas Friedman: “worse than an embarrassment.”
Angela Merkel: “An institution like Guantánamo, in its present form, cannot and must not exist in the long term”
Senator Arlen Specter: arrests of most of the roughly 500 prisoners held there were based on “the flimsiest sort of hearsay”
U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell: “Essentially, we have shaken the belief the world had in America’s justice system by keeping a place like Guantánamo open and creating things like the military commission. We don’t need it and it is causing us far more damage than any good we get for it.”
It’s indefensible. It’a a stain. It cheapens us. It’s ruined what little moral authority we had left.
GFY Joe. Virtually everyone up there you quoted is a whore of the first order.
NHSparky,
One man’s opinion…..
Uh Joe…Susan is not an armchair lawyer…she is a REAL lawyer….just like I know that you are not a dipshit,you just play one on this Blog…what a prize you are….asshole!
Anon,
Good, then she should have a clue about the 1st….
I have more than a clue about the First Amendment. I also know that just because you have the right to speak and make an idiot of yourself does not mean that you should. I also have the right to tell you that you seem incapable of making a cogent argument and those you cited are either (a) politicians with an agenda; (b) “journalists” with an agenda; or (c) groups with an agenda. Lord Steyn’s comment is just plain wrong.
What you have cited are the opinions of those with an agenda; not the facts from an objective finder of fact – say the International Red Cross which found that the facility met standards.
The First Amendement gives you the right to be wrong; it does not, however, mean we have to listen to you.
What’s your agenda, Susan?
What’s your agenda, Susan? Interesting, Thomas Friedman for example is a respectable source for conservatives whan they agree with him. When they don’t, he’s a journalist with an agenda.
I have never considered Thomas Friedman a source for anything other than his opinion. As to my agenda, it all boils down to a strong national defense that respects the men and women who keep us safe. Gitmo may not be ideal, but neither is fighting an enemy dead set on converting or killing all of us; who respects nothing other than might; and hides among civilians, using them as human shields, and then rages about the deaths of those civilians.
We do not detain people on the battle field with an eye to a conviction under the United States jurisprudential system. That kind of evidence collection, particularly chain of evidence, is just not possible. Those who think they can be tried in the federal system under criminal laws either do not understand that system or do not understand warfare – or in some cases, understand neither.
While not ideal, Gitmo and military tribunals for those aprehended on the battle field is about the best we can do. Those who argue they can be held on US soil clearly do not understand the cost associated with fighting the never ending stream of habeas petitions that will be filed on these guys behalf by the very groups to whom Diaz chose to leak classified information.
Thank you Susan for your cogent opinion.
Joey, Joey, mom let you out of the basement to play with the big kids again?
Let’s deconstruct your straw men up in #65:
Amnesty International? Really, Joey, come on, even a lefty like you can do better than AI, can’t you?
Lord Steyn? Whoever he is, doesn’t vote in the House of Lords, which I thought was a duty to one appointed to a seat there. Other than that, he’s an English judge. BFD.
Thomas Friedman, I do agree with you, he’s worse than an embarrassment. And he’s not a conservative, his opinions aren’t worth the air he expels.
Angela Merkel, her point seems to be that Gitmo shouldn’t exist in it’s present form, long term. And when was her statement made? How about some context there, Joey?
Arlen Specter, or is it Phil Specter, BwaHaHaHaHa.
Colin, I voted for Obama cuz he’s black?, Powell?
Sorry, Joey, your arguments don’t fly. Now, what about the IRC inspections?
UpNorth,
Here are some excerpts from the ICRC report. Not exactly glowing praise. But what eats at me is not what happens to the bad guys, but the innocent people swept up in this dragnet….
On February 14, 2007, the ICRC issued a report on the treatment of fourteen high value detainees before they were transferred to Guantánamo:
According to this report, the individuals in question were subjected to “arbitrary deprivation of liberty and enforced disappearance in contravention to international law,” as well as to “severe physical and mental pain and suffering with the aim of obtaining compliance and extracting information.” The report also found that the allegations of ill-treatment of the detainees indicate that this treatment “constituted torture,” and that many other elements of this treatment “constituted cruel inhuman or degrading treatment.” Finally, it found that the alleged participation of health personnel in the interrogation process and in the infliction of ill-treatment “constituted a gross breach of medical ethics and, in some cases, amounted to participation in torture and/or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.” This report was leaked to the press in April 2009.
In April 5, 2007, Jakob Kellenberger, the president of the ICRC granted an interview to the Washington Post. In it he faulted the US government for rights protections at Guantánamo. We have analyzed that interview below
Joe you still have to prove two things: what constitutes torture and the prisoners at GITMO tortured. Another thing you have to consider is wether or not the prisoners want to leave GITMO. Right now they have it pretty good. Do you think they want to be transfered from facility that is built specifically for them to a some shitty supermax facility.
Personally some of them I wouldn’t be opossed to releasing in the middle of the Atlantic on a boat with a hole in it and maybe a bucket to bail it out.
If they were “high value detaninee,” then by defination they are “innocent people” and, in your own excerpt, you note this happened BEFORE they were transferred to Gitmo.
So…how exactly does any of this justify a man not using the proper chain of command to register his belief that people were being mistreated, but rather divulging classified information to an organization that he assumed would use that information in a way that was harmful to US interests, which was the point of this post?
Susan quit using logic and facts against Joe he will just run away and not talk to us for a while.
Promise?
Susan, we can only hope. Joey, you’re going to hang your size 4 hat on “arbitrary deprivation of liberty and enforced disappearance in contravention to international law,”. Hello, they were captured and transferred to Gitmo. Among the people you think are deserving of I don’t know what, are KSM’s successor, the architect of the USS Cole bombing, Mohammed Atta’s room mate, the architect of the embassy bombings, a couple of AQ bankers, the Bali bombing architect and on and on. So, nope, not feeling the pity for the “innocent goat herds” at all.
post 76:“arbitrary deprivation of liberty and enforced disappearance in contravention to international laws”
International rights of liberty?
Arbitrary?
WTF?,…. over
Chicken Joe:
From your post 65: “…it’s a stain…”
The only stain is in your shorts, you chickensh*t bastard.
Send em all to hell; God will sort ’em out.
Look at the crap that COB started…sittin’ back drinking a mint julep. 😉
By the way, COB, THE BOSS says “put the bastard on the back of the ship, shoot him, and feed him to the fish”.
She’s just trying to get on your good side.