IDF Suffers a Friendly Fire Incident
Gunfighter 6 Gulf War 1 friendly fire incident
{DON’T WATCH THE MOVIE YET}
A lot of ugly things happen in war; this is among the ugliest.
Cleared for publication: Three IDF soldiers were killed and 24 others were injured, one critically and three seriously on Monday evening, in a friendly fire incident in northern Gaza.
Among the fatalities were two officers and a soldier. Colonel Avi Peled, commander of the Golani Brigade sustained minor injuries in the incident.
According to the IDF Spokesman’s Unit, the grave incident occurred when a tank, deployed as part of Operation Cast Lead, accidentally fired a live round at an abandoned building in Jabalya, in which Golani forces, who were operating in the area, took cover.
Friendly fire is of course not new but it is a horrible thing and based on personal experiences, it leaves a soldier feeling as helpless as anything else.
Anytime a fellow soldier is killed it is a gut-wrenching experience but I always found comfort in what enevitably came to bear on the perpetartors. Being personally involved in that act of justice made it even sweeter.
Therein lies the biggest problem with responding to friendly fire; you can’t. Other than screaming cease fire into a radio and ducking, there is zero you can do.
As anyone who has been in combat knows, the fog of war is hell. Decisions are made in split seconds and people die as a result of those decisions. One always hopes that it is the bad guys who die but in the chaos that is war, sometimes people make mistakes.
But what if it happened in a totally controlled environment where no split second decision was needed. The only driving force seemed to be one commander’s need to kill something.
Almost 20 years ago, Jonn and I experienced just such a case. It wasn’t pretty.
{WATCH THE MOVIE NOW}
Some clarifications:
a. The Norfolk Line was about 20 miles wide. That’s approximately half a kilometer between combat vehicles. With generation one thermals, I could see the vehicle on my left but little more.
b. LTC Hillman did not “anchor” his line with a Bradley and a M113. The line was anchored by my Bradley and my wingman. The Bradley and M113 that was engaged belonged to the Task Force Scout Platoon. The Scout Platoon SGT, SFC Richard Miller’s Bradley experienced a total failure of his Integrated Sight Unit. The M113 housed a Ground Surveillence Radar section whose radar was also inoperative. They were pulled off the screen line which was running at a right angle and rear of the battle line. They pulled in a couple of hundred yards east of my position and were planning to wait until daylight for maintenance.
c. At the 3:42 mark, the Apache gun jams. I saw two tracers fly over my head and immediately started a series of radio calls to find out what they were shooting at.
d. At the 5:05 mark, the Apaches turn to black hot. SFC Miller’s driver can be seen beside the Bradley.
e. At the 5:58 mark, the two hot spots running from the explosion were in fact two men from the GSR section.
f. At the 6:31 mark, our Battalion S3 is flashing the net with a cease fire warning from me. He called me back on my internal and asked if there were any survivors. I said I didn’t know but that we were moving in to get them out. He ordered me to stay put until he could confirm a cease fire. I disobeyed his order.
SFC Miller’s gunner CPL Middleton and Observer PVT Talley were killed on impact; we got the rest out; all wounded. We recovered Talley and most of Middleton.
Category: Politics
During Desert Storm, I served with Task Force Ripper of I MEF. What really hurt after the cease-fire was that more Marines of the 1st Marine Division were killed by friendly fire than by Iraqis.
I was a few hundred meters away – the Apache was shooting my fire mission on five Iraqi tanks about a click and a half north of me.
COB6 is being modest. When he says “we got the rest out” he means HE got the rest out. COB6 and his crew charged into a burning Bradley and a burning M113 and pulled people out with ammo exploding all around them.
This would have never happened if we didn’t INVADE their country.
Don speaking as a former soldier 86-94 and being a Subject Matter Expert on A**HOLES, please permit me to offer you a big cup of STFU.
You are an A**HAT and should be quiet when in the company of your betters.
COB6, Thank you for your service, leadership and loyalty to your brothers.
Don,
With all due respect for your thought, do you all apply that some “logic” to all aspects of your life and family?
If you weren’t driving on the road you wouldn’t have gotten in a collision?
If you hadn’t used that packet of sugar substitue you or a loved one wouldn’t be dying of cancer right now?
Or do you take as far as…
If she wasn’t wearing that miniskirt she wouldn’t have been raped?
You don’t have to believe in the war but surely that doesn’t give you the right to gloat on military graves.
Your statement is *true* that it wouldn’t have happened if we weren’t there in the first place however it’s the undertone of the statement, choice to post it, etc that makes you look like a dick.
You better smile when you say that. You are hardly my “betters” as you put it with the rhetoric you spew. All you do is wank on each others service and talk about how great the military is. I served as an officer but you don’t hear me jerking myself off about it do you?
Just how am I gloating on graves? The death of every soldier thus far could have been prevented by not invading a foreign country.
I offer prayers for the brave dead and their families;
I salute COB6 – heroes should be honored.
And I am happy to see that in the name of tolerance, the board allows one imitation military ayhole to run off at the mouth, ( I served as an ossifer ) as a token scumbag, to show that even the lowest of the low are allowed to post here along with their betters. Which would pretty much encompass anyone breathgin and not wearing a hajib.
I offer prayers for the brave dead and their families;
I salute COB6 – heroes should be honored.
And I am happy to see that in the name of tolerance, the board allows one imitation military ayhole to run off at the mouth, ( I served as an ossifer ) as a token scumbag, to show that even the lowest of the low are allowed to post here along with their betters. Which would pretty much encompass anyone breathing and not wearing a hajib.
sorry for the double post… but maybe it will serve for emphasis.
Semper Fi.
Typical enlisted response.
Mr Bermann forgot long ago from whence he came (if he was an O), obviously his loyalties were clear when he served (bass akwards from “mission and troops before self”). I guess his comment shows why CS and CSS O’s do not run combat organizations. So we get another example of why we call them REMF’s
Good one don. I have no reason to lie about my prior service.
Jonn wrote: Before you post another word, I’m going to need to see some proof of your service. No discussion. If no one ever sees another post from Berman, you’ll know what his response was. And, Don, since you share an IP address with Fox News Zombie, tell him the same goes for him, too.
Don,
Perhaps you would like to ask a Kuwaiti what they think about our getting involved? From what they’ve told us it was thank Allah the US has come. They weren’t looking for help from the Saudis, Iranians, Germans, or the Chinese… but from the Americans.
Accidents happen, that’s why they’re called accidents remember that when one of your kids (assuming you have any) breaks something of yours.
“This would have never happened if we didn’t INVADE their country.”
Mr. Berman, since the context of COB6’s experience as told here was during the ’91 Gulf War, I will assume, looking at your comment, that you disagreed with the operations needed to free Kuwait from Iraqi invasion. Is this the case? If not, then you need a lesson in staying on subject or at least understanding the subject.
Also, I highly doubt that you have any military experience at all, let alone that of an officer. Your comments lend truth to the fact that, even if you had served, you are in the company of your “betters”. Please refrain from trolling this thread into a meaningless, self serving shiit-pit.
My prayers to those IDF lost; thanks COB6 for being there for the Soldiers of TF Iron.
jd
“Good one don. I have no reason to lie about my prior service.
Jonn wrote: Before you post another word, I’m going to need to see some proof of your service. No discussion. If no one ever sees another post from Berman, you’ll know what his response was. And, Don, since you share an IP address with Fox News Zombie, tell him the same goes for him, too”
Bit confused about the above, but If this site (and thread) is about those who sacrifice so much for so many (in return for so little) it has a fan in me . . . not sure what the “Fox news Zombie” reference reference was about (or if it even refers to your truly).
Jonn wrote: Sorry for the confusion. The comment was meant for Don Berman.
Don Breman,
“I served as an officer”
Animal Control? ASPCA?
I was thinking maybe the Salvation Army or the Peace Corps.
Marine 83,
I would say nix to the Salvation Army. The folks I know from there would never act in such a classless manner, regardless of the politics.
I supported Cobras when I was stationed in Germany in the 70’s. They could raise some hell, so I can only imagine coming under fire from a next generation Apache. Kudos to you, COB6 and your unit for coming to the aid of your brothers.
I’ve been praying for Israel and the IDF for the last couple of years and I’ll keep those brave Israeli IDF Soldiers who were killed in the friendly fire incident, and also their families, in those prayers.
RE serving as an Officer
Hell I “served” as an officer in the Civil Air Patrol while in High School, made it to Major and as a Real Badge carrying Security Officer at the mall before I enlisted.
The CAP service did help in Basic, as I knew Drill and Ceremony down pat. The Mall Guard stint I would rather forget – I have learned a lot since back then when I knew it all.
So maybe Don Berman was an officer of sorts, but it still makes him sound like an ass.
“Jonn wrote: Before you post another word, I’m going to need to see some proof of your service. No discussion. If no one ever sees another post from Berman, you’ll know what his response was. And, Don, since you share an IP address with Fox News Zombie, tell him the same goes for him, too.”
Good one Jonn, maybe they’re bunk buddies too?
If he was an officer, as he claimed, I bet he was just a great one to serve under. Sarc/off.
Glenn Greenwald, is that you?
COB6, “Thank You” doesn’t even begin to say it, but I don’t really know any other way.
COB6-
That had to be beyond the pale. YOU. DO. ROCK!! Godspeed to the fallen.
What can I say, COB6? Except, God bless you with His peace.
I can’t imagine how it would feel doing what you did, let alone what it must be like to be the one who pulled the trigger. God have mercy.
Oh look, Don Berman, a chest puffer!
“Typical enlisted response.”
Typical asshole coward. Can’t stand up for your beliefs and trash everyone who serves. Fuck you. I’m sure you haven’t posted again because, golly gee you don’t know where your DD214 is. Can you say FIA? If it’s there, I’ll apologize. If not, it would suck to be you.
COB6. I have been trying to come up with a better way to say this, but I can’t. Your actions are the example we all hope to live up to.
Thank You.
Notice the very short span of time between Don B’s posts… and the total absence of posts after his “put up or shut up” smackdown from Jonn.
I will have to say that the “typical enlisted response” comment really pisses me off. Does he get his talking points from John Kerry or Stephen King?
COB6,
Thanks for being there. That reaction is automatic and entirely within the expectations of every American serviceman. It’s what sets us apart from virtually every other military. Not gregariousness, not great parades of strutting troops or massed colours. No thumping of chests. Soldiers doing their jon, doing what they would expect everyone else in the unit to do, because it’s what they expect from themselves. Our men and women serve with quiet dignity, and more often than not, would always rather have a beer than the award, would rather not have the memories that go with the award, and would just as soon have a couple more beers, a shot or two, and get back to work.
God Bless & BZ COB6.
Scott B said:
I will have to say that the “typical enlisted response” comment really pisses me off.
Me too, that sort of response reeks of Kerryesque elitism:
“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
What an eff head! 😈
You’re right, Don. It would never have happened if we didn’t invade their country. What would have happened, and did happen before we invaded, would be a vast number of deaths both within Iraq at the hands of a despotic government or in the neighboring countries Saddam invaded out of sheer imperialistic conquest. You’re okay with that, right? It’s fine if a bunch of brown people die, just as long as you don’t have to feel like you’re involved somehow. You make me sick, quite frankly. As for this…
“Typical enlisted response.”
That is not an officer’s response, ever. No O worth a damn would ever ridicule his own men. Consider yourself self-outed as a fraud. Go back to Daily Kos or whatever other racist, self-serving, decadent-ass hole you crawled out of and continue to cower under the aegis of your betters. And yes, they are your betters.
COB6, you don’t suck. Keep it coming.
Ohhh, God bless you. This nation is SO blessed to have men like you. I am in total awe sometimes. Thank you. Thank you.
COB6, I’m overwhelmed, thank you for your service. You went way above and beyond.
As for Berman, his comment about “wanking” shows him for what he is, a jerk-off. Q_Mech is right, no officer would ever talk about his men and women that way. A member of dkos or du would though.
You are as good a writer as you are an azimuth taker and an NCO. (That was a reference to Winter Soldier, now deleted)
that was 4 years and a few months ago and i’d like to think everyone grows. too bad moost prowar bloggers are growing at the waist. and not in the mind.
hows capt sanders?
your buddies got waxed by an overzealous pilot same way Israel did
wanna make your blog less of a shitrag report the truth
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1053402.html
Wow are you dense.
“too bad moost prowar bloggers are growing at the waist…” – Winter Soldier Gilligan
That may be true. But at least they can lose weight if they want to. You’ll still be a douchebag (heh, speaking of tunnel rats).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Norfolk
thats the battle..
http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:oPRVqCdcKd0J:www.history.navy.mil/wars/dstorm/dsfeb.htm+M113+fatalities+in+1991&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a
thats the combat chronology
now.. the reason you wont find middleton and tally? Amry is withholding names.
http://nucnews.net/2000/du/92du/920118wp.htm
there is a middleton who died that year and served but chance are he died of old age. U can look him up on another page for memorials..
http://www.2ndarmoredhellonwheels.com/memorials/taps.html
if you look hard enough you can find that, and looks like the unit was highly decorated. and your buddy brian lives near me like 10 mins
http://delta_1_41_inf.tripod.com/list.html
______________________________________________________
now for your video…
had to go to myspace but 5:06 pilot says “There you go, now do the ____(presumably FUCK)
5:09 PILOT SAYS “Nice and steady” he was already tracking for over a min a friendly apc that would link up to his tracking system. Israelis got what they got coming to them.
5:11 PILOT SAYS “I hope its the enemy!”
ha that’s crazy your own APC prolly has anti tracking shit on that’s why you couldn’t shoot it u dummy. that’s why he had to adjust his thermals
5:15 FRACTION OF A SECOND BEFORE SOME ISRAEL KID GETS WAXED CAUSE SOME ASSHOLE DIDN’T DO HIS JOB RIGHT.
…what kills me about all of it was the gun jamming at first… i thought he was trying to light him up on a 30mm and if that’s the case it jammed twice then he went to steady reliable missile…. cause that’s only after the “jam” did he start tracking……..
5:39sec AH-64 Apache Pilot says “Looking good”
5:42sec ****sucker says “This bud’s for you”
5:44sec MORE YOUNG ISRAELIS GET SMOKED BY THEIR EAGER PEERS
I believe the pilots name is Hayles might be interesting to see for trial later.
Don Berman Says:
January 7th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Typical enlisted response.
Oh, so if you WERE an officer, you were one of THOSE… someone who has no respect for anyone else.
Trust me when I say that if you did serve, and if you were an officer, nobody in their right mind saluted YOU, they were saluting your butterbars. To salute a perso is a symbol of respect, and since you don’t respect anyone else, you don’t deserve any in return.
“That may be true. But at least they can lose weight if they want to. You’ll still be a douchebag…”
AAHHHHHHHAHAHAHA! Fire for effect, brother!!
On the topic of the contents of the actual post…
f. At the 6:31 mark, our Battalion S3 is flashing the net with a cease fire warning from me. He called me back on my internal and asked if there were any survivors. I said I didn’t know but that we were moving in to get them out. He ordered me to stay put until he could confirm a cease fire. I disobeyed his order.
Am I reading this correctly as you having sent the cease fire warning, and then he had to confirm himself or get confirmation for cease fire from upstairs?
COB6 Wrote: I know it sounds ridiculous but it’s fairly standard and neccessary. I was not operating on the TF Command net; I was on the Company command net. The S3/Operations folks monitor all of the company nets. When the S3 heard me report the event, he immediately began calling for a cease fire on the TF Command net.
“Winter Soldier Says:
January 8th, 2009 at 11:37 am
that was 4 years and a few months ago and i’d like to think everyone grows. too bad moost prowar bloggers are growing at the waist. and not in the mind.:”
If one were to wade through your ‘intellect’ they wouldn’t get their feet damp.
Jonn,
I suspect we’ll not be hearing from “Don Berman” again, unless he tries to present a forged DD214 like MacBeth did.
Note to Don Berman:
Thousands of deaths could have been prevented had the Japs not attacked Pearl Harbor or if Islamofascist muslims hadn’t attacked on 9/11.
Thousands of Nazis, fascist Italians, and Imperialist Japanese wouldn’t have died had we not fought back.
Thousands of muslim terrorists wouldn’t be dead had we not invaded the region of the world that produces the fucksticks.
If you have a problem with that, then you’re pretty dense.
Enemies don’t like it when you fight back, especially on their own turf. They threw us a sucker punch on 9/11 and deserve every death they get. It’s just a shame we didn’t scorch the Middle Eastern cesspool to expedite the process.
The brave American troops who sacrificed their lives in this, and other wars for this country, deserve more than snarky bullshit like “The death of every soldier thus far could have been prevented by not invading a foreign country.”
Yep, and we could’ve just rolled over and capitulated to our enemies and avoided dying in those foreign countries. They’d have just continued to kill us here.
i laugh when i see all this effort im not even going to read anything else check back in a mo see if your writing anything decent then.
I agree. The “typical enlisted response” comment confirmed Don’s cowardly lie of having been an “officer.” Too much anti-military T.V., I guess, not to mention a possible missing connection somewhere north of the mouth.
COB6: Thank you. In addition to your actions, your few and modest comments speak volumes. Uncommon Courage IS a Common Virtue among this, as well as past, generations of American Service personnel.
COB6,
Matty Blackfive turned me on to your story. I salute you. I am one of those AH64A/D pilots. The story of that incident is etched in our collective memories. One of the biggest motivators to get new sights.
Too often or not, the leaders in the TOC are afraid to let the Soldiers on the pointy end of the stick do the right thing. Had several instances of some TOC sitting S3 type yelling for us to back off or not do something to support the guys on the ground. Funny how we always tended to have some sort of radio problem right about then. Doing the right thing never goes out of style. Honor to have served (and still serve) with men such as you. Just wish more stories were made public.
Winter Douchebag- STFU.
Don Berman- STFU.