MRAPs for serving warrants
I don’t want to get on anyone’s bad side, here, but, I’m thinking that an MRAP for serving warrants at the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Bureau is a little excessive, unless of course, they serve warrants by driving though your wall and dropping the warrant off on your coffee table, then backing out. I wonder how many anti-armor mines ICE encounters in a year.
And the military-style uniforms for domestic law enforcement don’t exactly inspire anything close to a warm & fuzzy feeling. Especially when the feds have bought up enough ammo to shoot each American five times and at the same time, they’re trying to disarm us. I’m no conspiracy nut, but stuff like this doesn’t seem rational to me.
Thanks to Old trooper for the link, I guess.
Category: Barack Obama/Joe Biden, Dumbass Bullshit
They don’t need either, unless they are driving down into Mexico and going after the drug cartel…or giving them more guns through Fast and Furious.
I’m kind of thinking the reason is to prop up the manufacturer. During the entire ISAF campaign, the MRAPs were selling like hotcakes, both to our allies and to our troops. Now that we’re winding down, could it be that the government is propping up the industry? I mean, they bought a bunch of those retarded electric cars at $40K a pop in order to prop up GM.
I can’t thing of a reason why any federal agency outside of the military needs an friggen MRAP….. Hell lets just go full tilt and let them have Bradlies and M1A2’s while we’re at it….
Ok well in the no-gun paradise that is Chicago as a cop I might want an MRAP for my squad car…….
Meh-I suppose you could make the case for an MRAP for the bomb disposal squad of any given law enforcement agency, but that’s about it.
Jonn…it’s time to be a conspiracy nut. Something is really, really wrong with this picture, no matter which way you look at it.
our small communities of Rockport and Aransas Pass,Tx received 2 MRAP’s a few months ago with the police/HS logos on them
“I’m no conspiracy nut, but stuff like this doesn’t seem rational to me.”
Why does one have to be a nut if he sees a confluence of events that point toward the possibility of a conspiracy?
Ever heard of Operation Northwoods (15-page PDF, from the archives of George Washington U.)?
Why did they buy over 1.6 billion rounds of ammo ? most of that is hollow point mind you. and btw, the war in iraq consumed a little over 5 mil rounds/month at it’s peak. at 5 mill per month you could wage a war for 26 yrs 8 months with 1.6 bil rds
What Nikki said. Her analysis was my second thought regarding this issue.
Another thought, the maintenance requirements on these things must be demanding. Can the local LEO’s afford this?
Oh well. I guess for every action there is a reaction. I still remember my anti-armor classes from 11Bravo basic. Have to go back and refresh my mind.
p.s. hollow points are not ‘legal’ for use in war, so keep that in mind.
(BTW, Lew Rockwell and Ron Paul talk about this kinda stuff. Doesn’t that make this kind of reportage, uh, “questionable”?)
Man, I have never seen a worse-informed bunch of smacktards in my life. Although I guess when you’ve got nothing to do but troll and latch onto every opportunity to hate I guess I shouldn’t wonder why it happens.
Did it ever occur to you there’s a good reason WHY they’re using MRAPs? Did it ever occur to you that because the Iraq War is over and the Afghanistan War is winding down that there’s no longer a need for MRAPs in military service, and thus you have a ton of very expensive vehicles that would otherwise collect dust?
It’d be a waste of money NOT to put them all to use. And no, they’re not propping up an industry; these vehicles have already been bought and paid for. And $40K for an MRAP? Try more like $500k. These ain’t luxury vehicles; they’re specifically engineered to have strong armor AND be designed to withstand an IED at close range or even underneath the vehicle, AND transport a squad of fully-geared infantry.
Would I be thrilled to see an MRAP roll up to my neighbor’s house? No, not particularly, because that probably means he’s getting served a warrant. I would however be thrilled to know that the government is making a concerted effort to be efficient and re-use some of its existing and very expensive gear rather than let it simply collect dust in a scrapyard. Remember, the MRAP program costed BILLIONS and was a program designed to fulfill a critical purpose in war. Why NOT get your tax dollars’ worth and see it re-used for civil purposes? At least it’s getting some use.
@11: You’re calling us worse-informed? Did you not notice that the $40k was referring to an electric car, not the MRAP, doofus? Also, since you mentioned it’s a war machine; what war is DHS/LE fighting that would require protection from IEDs to serve a warrant? Since when does the MRAP have to be mothballed? Do we not need them for training back here in the States, at our military installations?
Also, speaking of trolls; where’s the “hate” you say we’re supposedly displaying?
BTW Fuck you very much
*** That would be @13
@13 – you need to learn to read, dumbass. I was referring to the fact that the DoD was propping up GM with a purchase of something like 1500 ELECTRIC VEHICLES at $40K per unit. So the hypothesis was that maybe, since the war is winding down, and MRAPs aren’t being sold like hotcakes, governments are propping up General Dynamics and such with those purchases.
And since when is asking legitimate questions about very expensive vehicles being purchased by local police forces at a time when money is supposedly tight, “hating?”
Rather, I should say “purchased by government forces” in my last, not “local police forces.”
“…a program designed to fulfill a critical purpose in war”
Well, maybe it’s just me, but I don’t think that civilian law enforcement is (or, at least, ought to be) at war with the populace.
As I said above, I can see limited use for MRAPs in civilian law enforcement, but otherwise the ongoing militarization of the police is to be decried because it is entirely the wrong mindset/worldview for civilian law enforcement, the military is supposed to bring overwhelming force against an enemy-the police not so much.
Give MRAPs to every military unit, to include guard and reserve, stateside and let them use the vehicles for training for future war if you don’t want to put them to waste, but use by civilian police really ought to be limited.
@16, it is not “local police departments”… it is ICE and the vehicle in question from my understanding was not in use by the Military bbecause it was not able pass muster. it was a runner up in the bidding wars.
I am not concerned with ICE or Border Patrol having these, did you see how well we armed the cartels in mexico? They use these when they have to do a high risk takedown of an Illegal Imigrant, which means they are likely drug or human traffickers. They are not going after US Citizens with that thing, and that is one vehicle not dozens.
As to the electric vehicles, that is Obama and his Green Energy stimulus.
I must have missed the part where there is a big problem with IEDs on American roadways.
@19, I already clarified. I read something about local police departments and it was on the brain as I was writing that. 🙂
The point is – at a time of sequester, can we really afford to be propping up any industry?
@brando – considering the maintenance and fuel costs, weight damage, etc. an MRAP would probably cost less to mothball than to use on normal city streets. What domestic threat do you think is envisioned when soemthing like an MRAP is contemplated as a solution? And consodering its probable use in future g4 type conflicts, why not preserve them for use by the military rather than wear them out at a local police level? This ain’t “Die Hard” and the cops don’t normally need SUVs like this. You can”t have it both ways… either you envision some sort of domestic insurrection for which they could be needed (which would be bad) or someone is prepared to take some very expensive equipment and wear it out intentionally… which would assume a carelessness or ultimately subversive aim on the part of some clueless or hostile high officials in the process.
Like they used to say “it isn’t whether you’re paranoid, it’s whether you are paranoid enough”
Try to keep the discourse on a somewhat high plane, hmm?
Gee, brando, why didn’t anyone else think of that? Perhaps because it’s nonsensical. Why not a tank, then? How about a few .50 cals or a howitzer or two? The Great Lakes could probably make do with a destroyer and, of course, everyone will benefit from some aging Apaches. Heck, there may be a Cobra available too. You really are brilliant!
Who needs SWAT? With the war winding down, we can keep our Special Forces sharp with some inner city duty, right brando, you freakin’ knucklehead.
When did the definition of “disagreement” change into the deffinition of “hate”?
Hey brandoknucklefu*k the hate baitor …
Service check?
When and where?
@21, no Biggie, and yup caught that as I hit enter… I do not think we should have been buying those electric cars at all, in DoD or any other agency forced to by obama.
P.S. If I recall correctly the reasons the Military did not adopt that particular vehicle is that would not withstand an IED Blast, not at the level they were/are dealing with. Cannot tell for certain right now, as all those links are verbotten at work (as most are conspiracy sites.)
Why does ICE need them? Bet they got it at a decent discount. Plus the other reasons I gave.
@19: You saw 1 vehicle in the video, that doesn’t explain the 2,700. So, it’s not 1, but many, many more. Why do the police need them? Are we fulfilling the militarization of our police departments? Really? Let’s not forget the 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition and the fact that DHS purchased 7,000 select fire M4s and categorized them as “Personal Defense Weapons”. Really? If it’s a “Personal Defense Weapon” in the hands of DHS; how is a semi-automatic AR-15 a “weapon of war” in my hands?
No, I don’t subscribe to the explanation that they are needed for serving warrants, nor do I believe that DHS needs 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition for training.
Who is DHS/LE at war with?
@27 – Agree on the electric cars, especially since they apparently suck a lot. But supposedly, it’s a move to a “green” Army, which just makes me chortle!
So, brando, you’re expecting to see reports of IEDs planted on city streets and national highways? Is that it?
And you know something we don’t know?
Those things are so heavy that all they will do is damage the streets they’re driven on, never mind the damage to bridges. And there’s no limit to how much damage they can do to a railroad crossing.
Oh, just so you know, NOTHING is invulnerable to roadside bombs. NOTHING.
@29 it is not just cars, they have jammed the whole go green thing on the military big time. In some aspects it makes sense, in others they have likely spent a whole lot of money to bolster less feasable solutions, just because someone at 1600 Penn Ave told them to.
My suggestion is that anytime a local or state police sees this in operation they should pull it over and cite the driver for a seat belt violation
‘I would however be thrilled to know that the government is making a concerted effort to be efficient and re-use some of its existing and very expensive gear rather than let it simply collect dust in a scrapyard.’
Just one itty bitty question, brando the all-knowing: Since when are cops the government?
And how do the police justify using armored vehicles in a generally civilian population for any reason?
Are you saying that YOU know more than WE do?
Is there something you want to tell us, o great brando? Or are you just running off at the mouth?
Conspiracy paranoia’s fun, isn’t it?
Actually, I see no harm in bringing a destroyer and a guided missile cruiser to NAVSAT Great Lakes for training recruits. Lake Michigan has tides and is just as temperamental as the Atlantic and Pacific. Ditto Lake Superior.
@30, Ex-PH2, I think you’re right on the money. One issue I see with those is that the vast majority of them violate Federal DOT regulations as far as weight per axle and gross vehicle weight in some cases. I used to be an OTR Trucker, and I’m still familiar with the regs, and out of curiosity, I’ll look at the data plates on some of these when I’m in a motor pool. You’re right on the money, that’s why you’ll never see a surplus HET or M915 6X6 semi tractor in regular use on American highways. Their causing excessive damage to roads, highways, and bridges? Yep! That’s why Commercial Motor Vehicles are weighed and inspected at places along the highways, and Government needs to follow the same laws! Just like an uparmored Humvee, these things are VERY top heavy, and they’ll roll over in less than half a heartbeat. Are the alleged operators going to go through training specific to these vehicles? Rollover training? YES, and I mention that because before we deploy anywhere, we have to go through that and do our turns in a rollover simulator. It’s the actual crew compartment of an uparmored HMMWV or that of an MRAP, we get in in “full battle rattle”, and as soon as we’re strapped in, we’re rocked around and rolled upside down, from where we have to unstrap and egress. Yes, they have foam rubber objects inside replicating canteens, rifle mags, fire extinguishers (getting smacked by one of those in the rollover SMARTS!) plastic water bottles, and it adds to the experience. I already predict that if they start to regularly use them, we’ll see hotdog “Dukes of Hazzard” wannabe operators rolling them, they’re good and heavy, and it’ll take a lot to roll them back over, let alone recover them!
@35 – Infidel, I spent many hours watching “Bomb Patrol Afghanistan” on the G4 channel. I saw Buffalos, those heavily armored Army vehicles, hit by IEDs planted just below the road surface, and damaged so badly that pieces of them were all over the landscape. I KNOW how much damage an IED can do. I saw it for myself — craters up to eight feet deep, half the dirt road blown away.
These glorified Humvee SUVs could not stand up to any of that.
Every winter, every northern city in this country has road repair crews going around patching chuckholes. Chicago is notorious for potholes that can turn into sinkholes and swallow vehicles. These ridiculous vehicles are nothing but an expensive waste of taxpayers’ money, and they won’t protec the people inside them from anything.
I am so tired of all of this.
If cops and ICE agents want to be soldiers, let them enlist in the military.
If they want to play army, let them buy a bunch of paintball guns and fake helmets and vests and go run around in the woods.
If they want6 to be cops and ICE agents, let them wear cop uniforms. Blue uniforms, carry sidearms and shotguns and ride in cruisers.
There is NO situation I can imagine that requires any of this gear, any military style uniforms, or even SWAT teams and “Tactical Response” teams. If any situation the cops or ICE is facing gets bad enough, they can simply cordon off the area and ask the governor for support from the National Guard.
At 20: Here’s your IED problem on American roads!!!
http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/11/veteran-arrested-for-attempting-to-secure-possible-ied-on-colorado-freeway/
😀
@36, Ex-PH2, I’ve done my time in A-stan and Kuwait, and I’ve seen some of the vehicles hit close up as well. The big issue I see with these, especially the truck they’re showing, is the rollover hazard. For starters, he says that truck weighs 30,000 pounds, that will handily crush any car or van it rolls over onto. I’ve driven to and through Chicago, that town’s potholes are more than capable of making that truck roll over on its side or roof. The doors on it look just as heavy or heavier than an uparmored Humvee’s doors which weigh 250 lbs apiece, so just figure what a case of heartburn that would be to a rescue crew responding to one of those rolling over with people inside! The liberal media is always shouting and screeching about the Government having too much equipment and power, but they’re staying eerily silent about what the Government is stockpiling under B. Hussein 0bama & Co.!
@31 – I’m a DoD employee, and we’ve gone “green” by mandating 2-sided printing on all printers. Or something… LOL!!!
@41, I kill more trees now than I did before we became a “paperless” Army.
@36 – Chicago has an ancient (more than 100 years old is ancient) water main system that repeatedly collapses and is quite capable of pulling cars as stop signs into sinkholes. This has happened at least 5 times that I know of, to cars no bigger than a Volkswagen or a Toyota sedan. The sinkholes are always repaired, but the potential collapse spots appear constantly as depressions in the pavement and then small holes, and then suddenly — BOOM! — the street has collapsed. And this is without heavyweight vehicles rolling over them. Even CTA buses don’t weigh 30,000 pounds.
The vehicle in that video looks too wide to pass through a commuter rail underpass lane without doing damage to it.
And like I said before, since when are the cops the government?
Since when is ICE the civilian police?
What am I missing here?
I don’t like any of this.
Wait … what will they do after they serve warrant and arrest the perp?
Release them .. so I ask … what is the point?
@43, PH2, I hear you, and it makes me flash back to hearing B. Hussein 0bama’s call for a “National Security Force”. He isn’t concerned about threats from outside the US, I think he and his ilk are fanatical about staying in power!
Call me a mis-informed smacktard but nothing good can come out of militarizing the police. They don’t need MRAPs or most of the over the top gear they have. I understand the need for SOME of the SWAT teams but the policy among a lot of departements seems to be “go into the team room and put on as much cool gear as you can. We’ll pick a winner later.”
MRAPs? Why not give them Bradleys as well.
Jervv MRAP Class 1 was about 38,000 lbs. The Jervv Class Two was 45,000 lbs. I hope their suspension was better than the ones we had. Railroad car leaf springs were so stiff that a major bump in the road would pop you out of the 5 point harness and stick your kevlar into the roof. Yes it hurt very much. Loved watching people trying to drink a soda or ripit at the wrong time. Some funny shit.
@46, I hear you, the term “GEARDO” comes to mind when I see some of them!
The BATF borrowed Bradley’s (albeit without the autocannon)and an M88 for the Waco seige.
We all remember how well that went, don’t we?
@41 – I’m a DoD employee too Nicki. We always forget to do the printer set-up before we print so we end up blowing the first two pages! Three sheets to print one! BWAHAHAHHA!