To be blunt….
Yeah, I knew that the President couldn’t make a speech last night that didn’t include a reference to the war in Iraq. And the Washington Post couldn’t mention his speech without a reference to his peace prize.
“To be blunt, we went down that road in Iraq,” Obama said, referring to the 2003 U.S.-led invasion that was done without United Nations approval. “Regime change there took eight years, thousands of American and Iraqi lives, and nearly $1 trillion. That is not something we can afford to repeat in Libya.”
Obama has sought to link American values with his foreign policy priorities throughout his presidency, and the arguments he laid out in his address Monday echoed those he made on “just war” when he accepted the Nobel Peace Prize in December 2009.
To be blunt, Obama doesn’t have to deal with Global Exchange shipping human shields to Libya. I don’t see any Congressmen standing on the roof of Gaddafi’s palaces telling the American viewing public how Gaddafi is more trustworthy than Obama. There’s no one accusing Obama of rushing to war. No one is taking at face value reports of Libyan civilian deaths, or mis-aimed bombs. Code Pink is “standing with” the Libyan people like they never did with the Iraqi people. No one is calling the three-nation coalition “anemic”. No one is complaining about Joe Biden being on vacation in Aspen, while the troops fight the war. No one is complaining about the president’s golf while the troops are engaged in Libya.
The public opinion deck, for some reason, isn’t stacked against the military action.
Category: Antiwar crowd, Barack Obama/Joe Biden
Excellent analysis and comparisons.
Should be interesting to see how this shakes out considering the news is now reporting that the promised turnover (to NATO) will not take place on Wednesday (as promised on Monday night).
Yeah and if this was a republican president you would be praising this action, it’s amazing how everybody has an agenda huh?
Hey obummer
There’s nothing in the post critical of the President, just a compare and contrast of what people like did to/said when we went to Iraq and what people like you are saying now…..agendas anyone?? Pot meet kettle…..
Oh Yeah? I went to Iraq did you? You guys have kinda done a 180 yourselves, You guys are against setting up a no fly zone in a country because it lacks an exit strategy yet you were all for invading Iraq with no exit strategy just because some guy with an R next to his name wanted to do it.
Hey Obummer2012 Jonn was probably in Iraq during Desert Storm before you were even potty trained. Additionally most of the posters and readers here did serve in either Iraq or Afghan so don’t come here and try and pull that card because its not going to work on us.
Obama2012 – I don’t see anyone here opposing this action because of a lack of an “exit strategy.” I am personally opposed to this because there is no threat to national interest posed by the Libyan government, and there is no national strategic advantage to supporting the rebels with an unknown agenda. These were the same arguments I made before similar actions in Bosnia and Serbia; no national interest, no immediate threat, no military action. BTW, your service in Iraq gives you no more credibility in this than my neighbor’s service as a volunteer fireman.
I wasn’t criticizing the President, I was criticizing you dumbass peace-at-any-cost hippies. I thought that was fairly clear, but I guess that’s why you’re called “dumbass hippies”.
Hey Bobo where was the immediate threat and national interest in Iraq?, where is all that oil we were supposed to be paid by the Iraqi’s or the WMDs’ Bosnia and Serbia stopped genocide and ethnic cleansing. All Iraq did was settle a score for Dubya. How many troops were killed in Bosnia and Serbia? Why should you worry you’re not the one going. I love you conservatives you’re all about kicking ass as long as you don’t have to go.
Note that Obama2012 never claimed a military deployment to Iraq….just that he had been to Iraq (no time frame or purpose specified.)
I was in OIF 1 and while I respect Mr. Lilyeas service as a Gulf War Veteran that was a different war a great success by most peoples accounts. OIF has not been a success by most accounts and will effect this nations foreign policy measures for decades to come. The President is trying to prevent another Iraq and he should be given the benefit of the doubt. Like we all gave to Dubya.
Great…I leave for a meeting and you guys break out the cat toys.
Look I don’t want to upset anybody I only learned about this site becuase I heard my bf complaining about you guys, he was infantry active duty so he knows more than me but after reading your site you guys are definatley anti Obama, If I had made my name Cheney2012 you would have thrown rose pedals at my feet. I am a female national guard MP which will obviously make you guys hate me more but it appears this site is all just one big d*** measuring contest and ways to badmouth the President.
Obummer
Where was the national interest? How about a ceasefire Sadam agreed to and then continuously flipped us off over it…kinda like Hitler did to the world a while back…
obummer,
are you talking about a different post? Where was the Presidents action in Libya being badmouthed?
Just curious…how do you stand post with that huge fucking chip on your shoulder?
Well, Bobo2012, I was against us going into Iraq for several reasons, but not the ones you would think. Once there, the support of troops and mission overshadowed any of my personal misgivings. That said; where are the 17 UN resolutions against Libya? The mantra from the hippies and the left before Bush even committed us to Iraq was no blood for oil, etc. You have mentioned that Bobo wants to stop a genocide before it happens; Bush stopped a genocide in progress. The leftist mantra that we “rushed to war” in Iraq is actually somuch bullshit when compared to now. 17 UN resolutions, 2 trips to congress for approval and a dozen years is considered a “rush to war”, yet Bobo gets 1 UN resolution and no trip to congress for approval and within 24 hours is bombing Libya. Where is WCW with the Susan Sarandon commercial before we even went into Iraq? Where are all the protesters and celebrities calling this another war for oil? Why haven’t we gone into Syria, Yemen, Bahrain? Why didn’t we go into Tunisia and Egypt? Rawanda had a nasty little genocide that we stayed out of. We haven’t gone into Sudan to stop that genocide; have we? Why the urgency this time? Europe got us into Bosnia and Kosovo, which we are still involved in and now they got us into this crap in Libya. Yeah, Iraq was such a failure…….riiiight. If it’s only a matter of staying in a country past then we are still at war around the world with no end in sight, because we are still in Germany and Italy. We have forces in Korea and Japan as well. When are we going to bring them home? Where are all our exit strategies from WWII?
I’ll refrain from asking how many “dick-measuring contests” you’ve judged, Big O.
A cease fire Old Tanker? Gaddafi killed Americans and sponsored Terrorism, The Iraqi WMD was a bunch of guys holding up a missile and seeing how far they could throw it.
.~~~ I love you conservatives you’re all about kicking ass as long as you don’t have to go.~~~
I guess the validity of the poster’s comment is summed up right there… s/he comes to a MILITARY BLOG full of vets and many active and says something like that. <>>
Bobo2012 said this “Gaddafi killed Americans and sponsored Terrorism,” Do the words Salman Pak mean anything to you? If you were in OIF 1 you know what it is.
I guess paying Palestinians $25k to blow up Jews isn’t sponsoring terrorism. And 500 tons of yellowcake uranium isn’t enough WMD. Threatening Kuwait every other year causing Clinton to deploy US troops to the border isn’t a threat to neighbors. Shooting at our pilots enforcing the UN-mandated no-fly zone was just schoolyard antics.
Now, she’s been to OIF, well…except she hasn’t…it was her boyfriend who was in OIF.
And I know exactly what it’s like to be a woman, because I am one…well, I’m not, but my wife is….she knows more about it and I can ask her what it’s like.
Old Trooper – Libya isn’t a war it’s a no fly zone, are ground troops being sent in? No, The President is trying to stop mass genocide. In a perfect world we could help every country unfortunatley that’s just not practical. Maybe we could help in Syria Yemen and some of those other places you mentioned but Dubya kinda has us tapped out.
ROS- I am telling my bf you said that to me.
🙂 ROS!!
Old Tanker nailed it– the question is WHERE ARE THE DETRACTORS?
Old Trooper- I was 19 at the time but without looking it up I am going to guess he was the so called Iraqi agent who met with some al qaeda guy in Prague or somewhere that all you neo cons like to talk about.
“HAS US TAPPED OUT”
I am not thrilled we are bombing Libya but the President is doing it in the best possible manner. My motto is Boys Not Bombs LOL
I went to Iraq also but I am not going to lie we didn’t go out that much after we got to rifles west. I was an MP
you can’t spell wimp without mp lol
Bobo2012 in #21; Oh boy, where to start……does the deployment of 2200 Marines of the 26th MEU to the Libyan coast mean anything as far as ground troops?
Bobo2012 in #24; ah yeas, the money shot using the term “neocon”; does that mean I can call you a bleeding heart, whining maggot, leftist tool? Obviously you weren’t in OIF 1. Salman Pak was not a person. Salman Pak was a terrorist training facility. You claim that you were “only 19” at the time, yet you have all the facts and answers. Sorry, you don’t get a passing grade in history or facts. Now, were you really in OIF 1, or was that a lie?
So if Libya is a humanitarian op, I suppose the Teleprompter-in-chief can count on your support for other such endeavors…I hear the living conditions in Detroit are pretty bad.
OK, Gotta jump in on this one.
For #8 & #10, “I love you conservatives you’re all about kicking ass as long as you don’t have to go.” Nice broad generalization there pup, and erroneous as well.
I served in OIF 1 as well, Mar 2003 to Mar 2004, and fully support the Iraq war as well as the reasons we went.
1. We were never supposed to “be paid in oil”. What a silly and simplistic statement.
2. The WMDs existed, and those that weren’t shipped to Syria were actually recovered by US ground troops in 2003 and 2004, I’m sure you just failed to remember these pesky facts.
3. “OIF has not been a success by most accounts” Most accounts? Really? Prove it. You can’t because it was ultimately a huge success, achieving exactly what it was supposed to and what it’s detractors said it couldn’t.
4. Casualties. No matter how you play with the numbers the casualties were incredibly low for Iraq. As a percentage of the number of US troops deployed to Iraq I believe it’s not much higher than the percentage of casualties of those deployed to Bosnia.
Obama – the threat, as stated by Bush, was the proliferation of WMDs and the advancement of nuclear weapons technology, the same belief that was held by most Europeans. Where’s the Libyan threat?
If the criteria for committing troops is the prevention of genocide and ethnic cleansing, you had better ruck up, Ranger, because you are going to be busy. When you finish up in Libya, plan to start moving east and going for the rest of your life. While it is an atrocity, I’m not too interested in Americans being killed because two tribes in some craphole decided that they don’t like each other anymore. BTW, conservatively, there were 40 UK troops killed in Bosnia.
Given your willingness to have someone jump on a grenade in the name of ending genocide and ethnic cleansing, my guess is that I will be in said craphole long before you can even spell the place.
And BTW, I happen to support what we’ve done in Libya so far, my only complaint is Obummer dragged his feet to long before committing.
Again, so much for your generalizations.
BTW, Bobo2012; The Americans that Gaddafi killed was before you were born, so I don’t know what relevance that has to todays issue. If this was such a national emergency for us to be involved in, then this should have been done 2 weeks before it was started, when the rebels had Gaddafi’s forces on the run, not after it looked like he was going to quash the rebels last hold.
#24, O-2012,
You’re incorrect about Salman Pak. It was The Premier Training Camp for terrorists. Note the caps. One could equate it with West Point and I.V. Frunze in terms of training terrorists. Most of it’s student body became the Saddam Fedayeen, and later was absorbed into AQI.
As for the WMD, that’s plowed ground. Yes, WMD was found. Yes, Americans have been cleaning it up since 2003. No, with the global effort to discredit WMD as a cause for war, no one cares to believe the military’s reports.
So, at 19 I take it you were in the CP, with the radios going, keeping the maps and overlays up to date, and coordinating such things as firepower, movement, and logistics? Did the unit maneuver according to your vision for the outcome, 96-120 hours in advance?
Can you explain why the Marines’ advance was extraordinary? Can you enlighten us on close air support and air interdiction? How do you provide precise location to a bird 10,000 feet up, flying upside down at close to the speed of sound?
At 27 are you doing any of that? If not, why are you trolling a vet’s site calling its posters chickenhawk like your term of service is the Be All and End All of G.I. Joes? To do so is inappropriate behaviour for one sporting the name of the POTUS – it demeans the Office of the President and yourself.
Old Trooper- Yeah My MP Battalion was attached to 3rd ACR at Rifles West in Ramadi and then later 1st ID I actually met my bf at Camp Hurricane so I guess love can be born on the battlefield. Never heard of Salman Pak until you mentioned it just now but I didn’t have the luxury of watching the news every night 😉
” My motto is Boys Not Bombs. ”
Which I will assume your bf approves and uses as well.
Damn Dave, that was a good one, lol.
Iraq was a success? 4500 American lives lost and Trillions of dollars spent was it worth the price I ask you? I like ice cream but I am not spending 100 dollars for it.
Funny thing is, Bobo2012; you didn’t have to watch the news every night, because I knew of Salman Pak before the war even started. I’m sorry you didn’t keep current on the events of the day when you were in. I know I did, because it usually was a precursor for knowing where we were probably going next.
Oh, and Obama, given that you are a female MP, I can assume that you are familiar with the working end of an M4, M9, M249, M2, and Mk19; all tools of the trade of an MP. If you are more than willing to lay down our lives to end ethnic cleansing, I’m sure that those glorious rebels would be more than willing to accept your expertise in weapons and tactics and take you on as one of their fighting stock. You are more than able to go and use your skills to fight for what you so strongly believe in. But, you had better figure out just what the role of women in their tribes are, or you might be a little disappointed in their concept of ethnic and gender rights.
I am not trying to troll, I am just trying to give a different view point I thought that was what these sites were for. I had my guard up at first becuase my bf says this site is a bunch has beens and never will bes. Sorry If I gave any offense to anybody. I am just giving my opinion
I am a female national guard MP which will obviously make you guys hate me more but it appears this site is all just one big d*** measuring contest and ways to badmouth the President.
Yea? Well, thanks for your service young lady…War paid for in oil my old regular duty US Army MP ass! I’ve said it before,I’ll say it again…”There is dumb and then there is dumb”.
Is this one of yours, Army Sergeant?
Bobo- I am good with an M4 M9 and 249 and 240 but 50 and Mark 19 not so much theyre really hard to charge. I don’t expect these rebels to employ Jeffersonian democracy but anything will be better than Gaddafi.
“I am good with an M4 M9 and 249 and 240 but 50 and Mark 19 not so much theyre really hard to charge.”
LOL. Don’t say that too loud or someone might say that’s a reason we shouldn’t have women in combat.
Ok, now you’re just throwing out leftist talking points. Trillions? How many trillions are we talking about? I want the numbers because the budget was never that big.
As far as worth the price…..Ask an Iraqi woman that doesn’t have to worry about being raped by one of Saddam’s sons as she walks down the street. Ask the family of one of the victims of the plastic shredder if it was worth it? Ask the families of those whose remains were found in one of 300,000 bags of bones that Saddam’s people had killed and buried? Maybe the continued slaughter of his own people, along with the threats to his neighbors and others, coupled with his desire to continue his nuke plans was enough?
You talk about preventing a genocide as reason enough to go to war, then you should have supported Iraq and the aftermath. Don’t tell me that for a year in Iraq that you didn’t see what Saddam had been doing to his own people and that a majority were/are pleased that he’s gone.
Old Trooper- I did see what Saddam had done but then I also saw the power vacuum it created and the sunni shiite secterian violence that ensued. Obama will accomplish in months in Libya what it took Dubya years to and without any loss of life. I can’t show you the budget but I can tell you those generators and vehicles weren’t running themselves.
Anything will be better than Ghaddafi? Really? I’m sure that some Afghans circa 2000 would have loved a Ghaddafi. North Koreans would love Ghaddafi. As far as I’m concerned, Ghaddafi posed no threat to us, but his successors might very well be what we had in Afghanistan in 2000 and attacked us in 2001. Or, they might turn out to be another Kim, but with money and oil. Trust me, from a US strategic standpoint, there is far worse out there then Ghaddafi, and what comes next might be added to the list.
And again, with your skill set, jump on board the next thing burning east, make your way to Libya, and sign up to fight for freedom and justice for the Libyan people. I’ll wait until someone cuts me orders.
I agree with you Mr. Lilyea women shouldn’t be in the Infantry, I will be the first to admit I couldn’t carry a 240 very far.
Your bf neglected to mention the ‘still are’ serving group here. LOL
And yes, I claim Iraq was a success. 4,431 or so casualties over 8 years of fighting was and is a small price to pay for what we achieved.
I can’t begin to express to you how depressing I find it when someone such as yourself goes out of their way to minimalize or marginalize the importance of the whole action. It illustrates to me an incredible failure on the part of our educational institutions to impart historical knowledge and context to the last couple of generations.
How about a little perspective eh? 4,907 U.S. Marines and 1,893 soldiers and sailors died in 36 days on Iwo Jima. 36 DAYS. Over 20,000 were wounded. And you think 4000+ in 8 years is horrible. Sorry, I don’t see how Iraq can be considered anything BUT a success.
This country is getting way to soft.
You guys are saying it was good to get rid of Saddam but it won’t be good to get rid of Gaddafi because the next guy could be worse. I think if Bush was still president you would be all for invading Libya.