Chasing neocon ghosts at Vets Today
We only bing the sage words of Gordon Duff here because of the entertainment value – no one takes him seriously, do they? And since we know that Gordon reads TAH, we can rest assured that we’re taking well-aimed shots at him. Take his latest at Veterans Today. It begins with these words and generally slides downhill from there;
When former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld assigned General Boykin the task of “Christianizing” the US Army, even if every hard hitting, foul mouthed war fighter had to be “cashiered” the task was taken to heart. Boykin’s efforts to infiltrate every level of the officer corps with Christian Zionists, notwithstanding they may be the worst leaders any military service has ever seen in wartime, was a tremendous success.
Yes, everyone with a single brain cell left knows that the Right is intent on firing everyone in the military who says cuss words. Right? It only makes complete sense. Yup, everyone must swear their complete allegiance to Jesus Christ and His Father – and the existence of Israel. It’s right there in the oath of enlistment for anyone to see. Right?
if Gordon had more than 18 months of service in the USMC, he might be able to speak more intelligently to the subject of religion in the military. In fact, I wonder what he thinks about those officers with whom he served as a TOC rat. Does he think they could be influenced by such a useless plot to build an Army of God within the US Army? I know my leaders were always more interested in the outcome of a battle or an exercise than they were about salvation of my soul – but maybe that was just me.
Category: Military issues, Phony soldiers
The more I see from this guy the more I’m convinced he belongs in a padded cell.
I encountered ZERO descrimination in the service for being a non-believer, and a pretty vocal one at that.
“Christian Zionists”? You can’t make this shit up.
“…everyone with a single brain cell left knows that the Right is intent on firing everyone in the military who says cuss words.”
If this were so, we’d lose the Navy and the Marines; the Marines would be gone before morning PT was over.
BTW, I’m Buddhist. Would that preclude me?
Jacobite, there are two things conspiracy therorists and religionists have in common:
1. They instill fear to gain, and keep, followers.
2. They have a self-induced persecution feedback loop. The more you attempt to show them that what they believe is nonsense, the more you prove to them they are being persecuted, and the more you reinforce their belief system. And if this isn’t enough to put Duff in a padded cell, it ought to be.
The ONLY place I have ever been discriminated against for what I believe in, was in some church. (In one, I was called “the nicest hedonist they knew.”)
I am NOT a hedonist.
I love how people who never served try to tell me how much proselytizing was going on in the service. Really? Coulda fuckin fooled me! Duff is only parroting the atheist line which I’ve gone round and round with on other boards–again, none of the people who claim religious persecution and conversion is rampant have ever served, but who do you believe? Them or my lying eyes?
#4
To the last comment in your post – ROFLMAO!
On a serious note though, I understand what your saying. I was raised in a very conservative fundimentalist household. I was always uncomfortable with ‘revealed religion’ and matters of blind faith, but it took years for me to break out of the shell and understand why. I’ve a definite opinion about religion in general that I mostly keep to myself, but when asked outright, or drawn into a discussion of it, I can be extreemly vocal, and with my background in it, it’s usually more than others want to hear. 😉
“Christian Zionists”? You can’t make this shit up.
No, but apparently Duff can…
#5
Don’t get me wrong NH, by saying I wasn’t discriminated against I’m not saying I didn’t see a lot of ‘official’ proselytizing. I did, I just didn’t feel threatened by it. To each their own, and while I was an involuntary captive audience, it really wasn’t that big a deal to me, my career didn’t hinge on accepting what was said or espoused and I was never made to feel that it did. The only thing I didn’t like was being made to stand in formation longer than necessary for ‘official’ prayers and such. But then again I didn’t like standing in formation for much of anything, lol.
NHSparky,
To answer your question, I believe them. Way, way, way too much evidence, including incriminating video, to ignore, except for people with blinders on, like you. Thousands and thousands of complaints. Clandestinely passing out bibles in war zones, secret christian codes on rifles, pressure, intimidation, and even violence (esp. at the Air Force Academy) by religious fundamentalist whackos, and on and on and on. We’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg.
Mikey Weinstein, his family, and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation to the rescue. These are people who really understand the first amendment (you HAVE heard of the establishment clause, no?), and put their life on the line every day to defend it. Mikey is a true All-American hero of the first order.
AHA! “Joe” is “Duff”!
Pintonag- I AM a Hedonist; wanna partee?
I’m beginning to have doubts that Joe is real. We had someone who pretended to be from the Left here a few months back and I keep accusing him of being Joe because Joe sounds just like him. The only thing is Joe’s comments come in from Colorado and the other fellow lives in Maryland.
But, anyway, Joe’s comments are just a little too stereotypical to be real.
Anyone know what special skills this “Yurica” person of Yurica Report has? Duff seems to think that this chick is the end all be all of INTEL, and I’ve never even heard of her.
Dude is seriously in need of mental health help. Won’t be even a little surprising when he ends up in jail or a mental ward.
Joe is very real – I know ‘cuz I look at him in the mirror every morning. So you’re scoping me out, huh Jonn? But no Jonn, it’s called a different point of view from someone so immersed in military matters they sometimes get s distorted view of what the rest of the country thinks…..
“Clandestinely passing out bibles in war zones, secret christian codes on rifles, pressure, intimidation, and even violence (esp. at the Air Force Academy) by religious fundamentalist whackos, and on and on and on.”
BWAHAHAHAHA
OK Joe, I’ll play. When were you in theater? Also, where on the rifle was the “christian code.” Before you answer, I know the proper response, and it isn’t on the rifle itself, so maybe you should redo that one.
I’m guessing Joe is tied up with that douchey Mikey Winestein or whatever his name is from the Freedom from Religion group. He’s completely full of shit.
“Clandestinely passing out bibles in war zones”
Right. I always carried a bunch of bibles to clandestinely hand out in addition to 40 lbs of gear, two weapons, 12 magazines, grenades, comm, and water.
“secret christian codes on rifles”
I used an ACOG with a “secret christian code” on it for seven months without ever feeling oddly compelled to attend church. Here’s a good Op-Ed on that issue from one of those “Christian Zionist” officers with whom I served literally next to in a firefight:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122945924
“pressure, intimidation, and even violence”
Pressure? Like when my retarded* atheist plt sgt ordered Marines/Corpsmen holding a six-person bible study to stop praying in the barracks because he didn’t like seeing it? No Christian Zionists swooped in to correct him.
*Retarded not because of his atheism but because of his complete tactical ignorance that nearly got people killed on more than one occasion.
And making any comparison between Weinstein and Duff is ridiculous. Weinstein has professional credentials and history and uses legal avenues to make reasoned arguments. Gordon Duff sees evil joos everywhere and writes unsupported conspiracy propaganda for a shitty website.
Clandestine bible issue? Secret Christian codes on rifles? Pressure and intimidation?
Dude, I’ve been twenty-six years and have never, ever seen or heard any of this.
BTW, the “secret Christian codes…” aren’t on our rifles, it was on the optics for those rifles and they were put there by the manufacturer. Who, truth be told, puts them on every optics piece they sell to both civilian and military.
Get your stories straight.
” But no Jonn, it’s called a different point of view from someone so immersed in military matters they sometimes get s distorted view of what the rest of the country thinks…..”
Are you seriously suggesting that anything Gordon Duff has ever written is in any way indicative of what “the rest of the country thinks?”
Can’t be; Gordon’s whole motif is that of a righteous purveyor of hidden truth to the ignorant masses. That would ruin him.
I’m convinced some Jewish guy stole his girlfriend and he went insane over it.
18 month Pogue S-3 clerk Typist
In the 27 Years I served NOT once was I pressured to attend or take part in any Religious Services, hand our Bibles, get Baptized, and frankly anyone who would have threatened me to would have wound up at the TMC making a Dental Surgery appointment. Those Bibles were never given out. When the Chaplain was told of the reguation he turned them over to the Command which destroyed them.
Jonn encouraged me to donate to a military charity, and I took his advice to heart. Though a man of modest means, I donate to MRFF on a regular basis. So, yeah, I am “tied up” with Mikey and the MRFF, you betcha. Mikey is one true, unvarnished hero. He puts his life, and the life of his family, in as much danger every day as a serviceman or woman on an FOB. And that is right here in the USA. That should tell you a little bit about the number of religious whackos here in our country. FYI, the secret codes are on the rifle sights.
Here’s a news flash for you TSO. There are independent, disinterested people called “reporters” who write journals and articles, and publish them online and elsewhere. There is a piece of technology called a “video camera” that records moving images and sounds. There are servicemen and women, many, many of them (thousands I believe) who have formally complained against fundamentalist christian intimidation for either being heathens, or “not christian enough”. There are commanding officers, Boykin being one of the most flagrant, who make no bones about converting the US military into the army of Jesus. Pull your head out of the sand….unless your one of the aforementioned whackos.
And it’s amazing how many of you who post take the infantile position, “I was never coereced by fundamentalist whackos after (fill in number here) years in the service, therefor it never happens”.
Yeah, you found us out, Joe. NCO Academy is really just reading the collected works of Tomas de Torquemada.
Joe’s not REAL? It’s a conspiracy, I tell you! A CONSPIRACY!!
No, seriously, I like Joe, no matter who (or what) he is. He makes me pay attention to what I’m reading — or writing.
#10 Southern Class, sweet of you to ask, but…no. I was born without a partying gene. I refuse to inflict that congenital and irreversable handicap on anyone I like.
I’ve spent the last few minutes looking at my calendar and can say that in 37 visits to Camp James E. Rudder in the last 14 months, (didn’t count back any further than that.), I have never ever seen anyone attempt to preach, or squelch conversation in this vein. And, as those RANGER candidates cross the Yellow River, their conversation is not very Christianlike, and I have never heard of one being denied graduation for his speaking. But, I have heard some progressive types tell me that my Tea Partier affiliation is because I must be a “born again Christian”, without knowing what my religous convictions are, or are not.
Typical Lib Drivel………….
‘And it’s amazing how many of you who post take the infantile position, “I was never coereced by fundamentalist whackos after (fill in number here) years in the service, therefor it never happens”.’
Ok Joe, I’ll give you that episodic tales count for little, but they are better than blind belief of Gordon Duff’s dated fellow conspiracy theorist source. So let’s see some of this “incriminating video evidence” that will give credence to claims that the military
“has been targeted as an institution to be taken over and replaced with dominionists who are decidedly less educated and less honorable. These are men and women who may be willing to do anything to further the cause of world domination. There is also evidence dominionists have infiltrated the military with willing personnel and that the military has similarly infiltrated the churches.”
Yeah, I figured. Joe has no clue what he is talking about.
MRFF is full of it. I sent a couple of emails questionning Mikey one time and his responses were downright Duffian in their insnaity.
Never once did I ever see anyone in my unit passing out bibles. Since we were running patrols, I would like to know which Sooper Sekret unit was operating in our AO passing them out.
Really, it is incredible to me that you guys don’t know, or don’t want to know, more about this. Neither Duff nor Weinstein are crazy. There is so much eveidence – video, written, thousands of personal accounts. I’m guessing some of you are retired or no longer active in the military and may have missed it, as it is somewhat recent. Also, it is especially prevalent, though certainly not exclusive to, the Air Force. This is a phenomenon that is recent (last 15 years?) and has been gaining steam in the last 5-10 years. Some of these whackos are so smug and cocksure they don’t even hide it.
Joe, there is a difference in ocasionaly being asked if you want to a service, or if you want a bible and wholesale, across the board conversions like the military is running some king of inquisition. People like you and Duff are trying to argue that somehow, leaders are trying to create an “Army of Jesus”.
Come to think of it, I once heard the Battle Hymn of the Republic while in the Army, became a Christian, smote all non-believers before me who would not repent and spread the Word to ALL heathens so they too might be saved….
Also, I have corresponded with Mikey and seen written transcripts of some of the death threats he and his family receive daily. His family has to have 24 hour security. This is no joke.
My last sentance should be read with flaring Southern Baptist Preacher inflection.
“There is so much eveidence – video, written, thousands of personal accounts. I’m guessing some of you are retired or no longer active in the military and may have missed it, as it is somewhat recent. ”
Yeah, you keep saying that. So I’ll ask again: Where is it?
Joe, you DOOFUS- I am no longer active “IN” the military, but nearly daily I am around and among military personnel both at their duty stations, as well as “in town”, and other places. I listen closely to my surroundings, I observe people in action, and even have real, live, conversation with active military. How long since you have even come close to that? When was the last time you shook an active military persons hand and thanked them for their service? How long, Joe? How much first hand, Yes, I said “FIRST HAND”, not heresay information do you actually have on this? How much, Joe?
Jumpin Jeezus; they’re back!!! Ok, not necessarily a “them”, but more of an “it”. Joe, Joe, Joe; why do you do this to yourself? You come on here with absolutely no fucking idea what you are talking about, have never been on a military base, especially in the last 5-10 years, yet you are attempting to tell us that you’re right and we’re wrong? Yes, Gordon Duff is nuttier than a squirrel turd. I have never, ever witnessed the type of religious indoctrination that you “claim” is going on. You, yourself have never witnessed any of it, just “heard about it happening”.
I think you stole Duff’s brake fluid, thinking it was Kool Aid.
By nature most members of the military are conservative (but not all). Due to this, many of them feel strongly about religion and are open about their faith.
However, very rarely do they homilize to the troops or actively attempt to proselytize atheists. I will be immature also and state that in 10 years of service I have never been forced to attend or discriminated against due to my religious beliefs nor witnessed any actions by anyone within my command. In fact due to the Army’s increased emphasis on IO and COIN operations we actually do more to ensure we don’t cause cultural issues during most key leader engagements and events.
Mr. Weinstein’s book on the Air Force Academy was very interesting and he was right about reporting these transgressions and getting the atmosphere changed. However, his actions show that when things are reported, action is taken, making Gordon Duff’s point of these organizations being present baseless.
I’ve been in the military EXCLUSIVELY in the last fifteen years, both active duty Corps and National Guard. The closest I ever saw to prostletyzing was a retired 1stSgt at the end of Combat Training who sat us down and gave us what was more of a motivational talk and sales pitch than anything else (he was hawking some self-help stuff, as I recall correctly, that was very vaguely tinged with Christianity. Most of us ignored him, politely). Beyond that? Nothing. However, I do agree that the plural of anecdote is not evidence, so please, if there IS evidence of some Christian conspiracy, give us a link so that we can examine said evidence ourselves instead of just having one person out of ALL the veterans who post here insist that it is so and that we are willfully blind. ‘Cause frankly, that just sounds crazy!
The only incident I can think of that would come close to proselytizing was during basic. After our first Sunday there, the guys came back and told us how stupid we were for missing church. There were girls there, air conditioning (this was Fort Jackson in June) and they didn’t have to move all the bunks to buff the floor and sit outside in the breezeway polishing boots. Church attendance skyrocketed the next week.
It’s not a conspiracy, MilitantB, in the sense that there is a leader, or a few leaders, instructing their minions. It’s a conspiravy similar to the conservative conspiracy that started 20-30 years ago where many, many conservatives went to the same think tanks, read the same books, were instructed to adopt the same tactics, were told which words to use in speeches (neuro-linguistic programming) when describing Democrats (they, them, weak, tyranny, alien, foreign, treasonous) and what words to use in reference to republicans (us, we, strong, freedom, American, loyal). They were not so much answering to some diabolical leader as much as operating out of the same playbook. Not unlike Al Queada – not every suicide bomber takes his order straight from Osama bin Laden, but many bombers are using the same play book.
“It’s not a conspiracy, MilitantB, in the sense that there is a leader, or a few leaders, instructing their minions”
O Rly? Did you read Gordo’s regurgitation of a six-year old piece about a general who has been retired for three? The words “targeted” “dominionists” “infiltrated” “world domination” and “political forces” are all included. Nothing about who these “dominionists” are, or how proselytizing would help them accomplish world domination. Gordo is good at vague fearmongering, not so much an expert on specifics.
FYI – Anonymous above is actually “Joe” – on a different computer….
Joe
You forgot the left playbook
fascist, nazi, racist, warmonger, homophobe, chickenhawk, etc…
It’s not a conspiracy in the sense there’s a few leaders? Who got together to instruct me in the proper vocabulary and tactics then? (hint: it was the dominionists…this place is lousy with them…)
Joe #36; really? Ya know, that projection thing is a wonderful tool of the left; isn’t it? You have been describing everything about what the left has been doing for 50 years.
JOE:
See #31.
First hand, Southern? Like, “I never saw it, so it couldn’t possibly have happened”?
Once again Joe, LINKS please, lots of them as you say, and evidence, lots of that too you say. Well put up or shut up.
No Joe:
Like where did YOU see it? Like where did YOU experience this? Heresay is as reliable as “The Check is in the mail.”.
Ahmadinnerjacket sez that the Holocaust never happened, so those photos by war photographers must have been photoshopped back then,eh?
Talk is cheap, facts are what counts. Unless, of course, you are a progressive, and never let the facts stand in the way of the story.
Been on the phone a bit today and am told by much more reliable sources that this is all a crock of feces.
Once again with the conspiracies.
The only problem with these conspiracies is that for them to work every single member of the military must be on the same page. I couldn’t even complete a Company picnic without some dissent or good idea fairy making waves. So how in the world could anything like total global domination be accomplished.
Liberal organizations contine to unwittingly insult members of the military when trying to save them from themselves. The view of every member of the military being brainless “minions” is a an insult and a stereotype that shouldn’t continue.
They should realize that the military actually likes leaders to be well rounded, education, and have different points of view when problem solving. That is why a majority of the senior NCOs and Officers have multiple degrees from almost every institution in the nation (heck, they even sent me to grad school last year).
There is a difference in being a brainless minion and following orders that those that have never served don’t understand.
Joe, I’ll go infantile for you again. I have 4 decades of up-close observation that refutes your thesis, and have yet to see you post evidence.
I’ve literally been around or in the Army my whole life (Army brat, son of a SGM, did 24 years and retired myself, now work with soldiers on an installation), and I have no idea what you’re talking about, let alone Duff. I think you’re both a few fries short of a happy meal.
I was even directed, as a staff officer, to ensure we had adequate “facilities” (read: trees and a fire ring in a secluded area) for a group of Wiccans in our unit to use for worship. Okay, whatever. Not the route I choose. They were good soldiers who knew their jobs and did them well.
Doesn’t it make more sense for leaders to worry about the training level of their soldiers more than their religious beliefs? Would you beleive me if I told you that was more the case than anything Duff beleives? The military is a pretty pragmatic place. If a soldier worships God, Allah, Yahweh, sticks, or chickens it really doesn’t matter, as long as he qualifies expert, functions as part of the team, and passes his SQT.
I just don’t understand how someone like Joe can in one breath regurgitate the MRFF talking points but then go and preach as gospel Duff’s blatant anti-Semitism. That discredits the whole thing and tells me that he isn’t an intellectual but instead someone who at best is a run-of-the mill follower and worst a religious bigot that hates anyone who affiliates with religion.
Also… Christian Zionist officers… Then how bad must the Jewish officers be?
Just a few, you can look for some more….
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/6/the_crusade_for_a_christian_military
http://www.blogher.com/family-secrets-jeff-sharlet-exposes-secret-fundamentalism-heart-american-power
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/washington/01church.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2
Joe,
As has been said too often above;
SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE!!!
I am adult enough to examine the proofs for myself without being led by the hand (nose is more likely in your case).
Put up or shut up.
All I know is if you cuss, a Veteran will trust you and open up more. So I cuss.
Look at that, My 27 years dont mean shit. I couldnt possibly know I was being coerced.
Amy Goodman and NPR have the facts
Thanks Joe/Gordo/Moonbat