Driving while IVAW
I found this hilarious post by Catherine Bleish on her blog about IVAW member Will Stewart-Starks who was pulled over by the cops in Round Rock, TX, supposedly because he and his companion had an IVAW bumpersticker on their car, oh, and they were speeding.
A New York State trooper once told me that cops give you a 10% leeway on the speed limit. So if they were going 6 miles per hour over the speed limit and the speed limit was 30, the cops would have forgiven 33 mph but not 36. So pulling them over for speeding was pretty standard. There’s a reason they call it a speed LIMIT.
But anyway, Stewart got mouthy with the cop and now wants legal help to sue the Rolling Rock police department for violations of his civil rights (and wants contact information for the ACLU)
I refused to tell specifically where we were going and pointed out my right to do so and its irrelevance to a routine moving violation stop. Upset he warned me, “if I was prepared to take this to the next level” and was soon told to step outside the vehicle. Another officer, Sergeant Eric Mount had already approached the scene and remained with the driver. Upon exiting the vehicle I took the keys from the ignition, rolled up my window, and locked my door. Standing outside I began to put the keys into my pocket when I was yelled at not to. I was immediately told to stand in front of the passenger door, forced around, arms pulled behind my back, fingers spread, interlocked, and squeezed against the keys in my hand. Later my left arm would ache from being jerked back.
So because Stewart was such a whiny little brat, the cops searched the car and brought in the dogs, found nothing and released the duo. Stewart was afraid they’d “plant” evidence – it didn’t happen, but I’m sure it gave him PTSD worrying about it.
Of course, because Stewart is a whiny brat he’s not willing to let it go;
I have attempted to contact ACLU in Texas with no success, YAL, C4L, and representatives Lynn Jenkins, Dennis Moore, and TX rep. Lloyd Doggert. I have yet to hear back.
Maybe you’re not having any success because even the ACLU recognizes a drama queen and a standard traffic stop when they see one.
Getting pulled over for speeding and getting searched because you’re a mouthy little brat isn’t a violation of your civil rights, dumbass. It’s happened to all of us, but we usually don’t act like a spoiled two-year-old.
Category: Iraq Veterans Against the War
The reason most police give a 10 percent (sometimes more) leeway is because of the inaccuracies of our speedometers, so unless the policeman is a total tool and pulls people over for doing 57 in a 55 (never seen that happen), the courts would have a lot of speeding tickets dismissed because drivers would (rightly) claim they thought they were obeying the law.
That being said, sounds like our friend Will never saw the Chris Rock video on how to deal with da po-po…
There is no mandatory rule for the police and speeders. Individual department can obviously set their own rules. An officer can write a legal ticket based solely on his observation, without anything to corroborate him. I worked in a 911 center here in MA for a dozen years and knew of over zealous cops pulling people over for going 2 miles over the limit. There are no ticket quotas, but stats on each officer are kept and you don’t want to be near the bottom of the rankings. At least on my department and all the surrounding towns.
All that being said, this guy was written up for POPO; p*****g off a police office. He could have played nicely and been on his way in <5 minutes, most likely without a citation.
“Standing outside I began to put the keys into my pocket when I was yelled at not to. I was immediately told to stand in front of the passenger door, forced around, arms pulled behind my back, fingers spread, interlocked, and squeezed against the keys in my hand. Later my left arm would ache from being jerked back.”
Dumba**. Of course the cop is going to stop you. How does he know that you are not reaching into your pocket for a weapon?
Fucking with Texas cops? GENIUS!
“wants contact info?” Is his PTSD so bad he can’t even work a phone book?
No doubt in my mind that he was pulled over for speeding!!! If he had been pulled over for having an IVAW bumper sticker on his car the cop probably would have gone rodney king on his ass!!!
NHSparky, there used to be a cop in Madison VA who would patrol Rt29 and write tickets for 2 miles over. Course that was in the 70s … I doubt they do that today.
The only place I ever HEARD of such a thing happening was on a stretch of Hwy 101 between Gaviota and Buellton, CA…mostly tourists and folks driving between LA and SLO or points north, because the CHP knew full well people weren’t going to take the time to go all the way BACK to Santa Barbara or Buellton to fight the ticket.
As far as my recent experience goes–I-95 northbound, 83 in a 65, came up BEHIND a NH trooper. He lights me up, I pull over right away, have papers out, answer all his questions politely, he lets me go with a warning. Go figure.
Around here in SE Texas/Louisiana, unless you are being a total *richard*, the police will allow you 5 mph over.
This cat was definitely being a *richard* trying to stuff his car keys in his pocket. It’d of set my alarms off, without a doubt.
Congrats to the Round Rock cop. Lord only knows what may happen next if he came out with a handful of Saturday night special or something else (like a 9mm).
There’s stupid and then there’s stupid….
How do we know he is actually qualified to be an IVAW member?
H’mmm, let’s see:
Whiney little shit. Check.
Expects special treatment. Check.
Now soapboxing a non-event. Check.
Stupid enough to challenge law on petty event. Check.
Wanting others to do his heavy work, (locate ACLU,etc). Check.
Actual Iraq knowledge? Not a part of the equation.
Fits right in. Ought to be nominated for the Board.
As I read posts on these Idiotic Vermin And Wusses; I am reminded of the local Shriners clowns, except that these turds are even sillier than the Shriner Clowns.
I usually gave 10mph over, as Sparky said, mostly because I saw the radar correction on the speedometers we had in our cars. Most nights, I’d only stop for 15 over. If the Chevy Caprice and Ford Crown Vic had errors of up to 6-7mph, 10mph was the bare minimum margin of error in someone else’s speedometer. That said, usually, if it was worth me getting out of the car to talk to someone about their speeding, it was worth writing the ticket.
Actually, it is not legal to search the car as a result of speeding. Citizens do have the legal right to refuse a search under those circumstances. If there is no warrant, and no probable cause, they have no reason to search your car. “Being a jerk” is not probable cause, neither is “having an IVAW bumper sticker”.
It seems pretty clear it was police overstepping their authority. What’s chilling is how many people here are OK with that.
AS–SHE was bitching about not giving HER consent, even though HE was driving the vehicle. As such, HE is the only one required to give any consent for all items in the vehicle, since he is the one in possession/control.
Yeah, chilling. :eyeroll:
AS:
And, having a pot leaf decal is not sufficient reason to search, but if someone is speeding, has a pot leaf, and appears to be “under the influence”, a search request should be made.
Any number of suppositions could be made about this, but the bottom line is that this cop surely didn’t pull the car over because of the Idiotic Vermin And Wusses bumper sticker. Most likely didn’t even know what the hell it stood for.
A lot of lip is sufficient cause to look deeper, and getting consent from the driver, or the registered owner is sufficient regardless of the feelings of the passenger/non-registered owner.
I could go on,,,,,,,,,,,,
Does this mean AS and her friends will add police “brutality” to their tenets of supporting Hamas, immigration and ISO platform? Solid, serious organization you’ve got there… Real credible.
“Next I was frisked, in my opinion aggressively, with several instances of grabbing between my legs. The officer then demanded that I move out in front of the car to a road marker on the side of the road and stand facing away from the vehicle. I turned around to see the officer eventually approach the car after suckering the driver into a search. I began stating that “I don’t consent to a search”, which was ignored by Officer Gogolewski. He then proceeded to grab bags in the back seat to which I told him that “I don’t consent to a search of my bag.” top which he continued rifling through my belongings.”
Oh Boo F’n Hoo! Cry me a river.
Several things she should know.
#1 Sparky’s right. Once the DRIVER gave consent it was game set match for the Copper.
#2 I’m not sure how you “aggressively” search someone’s groin without using rubber gloves, but obviously this twit has never heard of “Thunderwear”. I know the cop has.
#3 Consent to search includes the vehicle and everything in it. You can’t pick and choose what the police search in the car once you give consent. The Officer had every right to pat her down (for Officer safety, especially after she tried to put her hand in her pocket!) and search her bags in the car because he had the consent of the DRIVER to search the vehicle and it’s contents.
FWIW…Here in Georgia, local police and Sheriffs are prohibited by State law from citing anyone for less than 10 mph over the limit to cut down on speed traps. However, the Georgia Highway Patrol can write a ticket for anything over the limit. Oh… and if you see a Sheriff’s Deputy who’s out of his county and you think you can just ignore him, remember, unlike Police Officers, Georgia Sheriff’s Deputies have State wide jurisdiction. A Deputy from Rome Georgia can arrest you in Kingsbay if he has good enough reason to.
Oops… Sorry, re-read the original article and see where I got “gender confused”. It wasw a male (sort of) IVAW twit that was crying. Just change all the “she’s” to “he’s” in my last post. LOL
Ah, okay-yes, you are correct, driver is the one that gives consent.
CPT Me: Nope. Personally, I’m a libertarian, but I don’t try to get IVAW to be.
Whereas we declare a stand against police brutality.
Whereas police brutality is a natural result of capitalism.
Whereas we we’ll write this up and 50 of people of our membership will vote it into power.
Whereas we will ramble on and on and begin every line with “Whereas”.
Resolved, that we the (non) Iraq Veterans Against the War do hereby call for demilitarization of our police; and further
Resolved, that Peace, Love and Unicorn Farts are the only basis for a viable law enforcement mechanism; and finally
Resolved, that the IVAW Board implement this resolution by whatever jackass means they have available, be it chaining themselves to the WH fence, getting beat down by police horses, or almost immolating themselves while pursuing destruction of our Fascist National symbol.
How silly.
See, here’s the thing: it’s called a speed LIMIT for a reason. We can (and some do) stop for even ONE mile over the speed limit. I often stop and warn anything going more than 5 over. Ticket? Yeah, sometimes, depending, but I usually write for ten and above, like most cops. But getting pulled over for going six over isn’t unusual on I35 through Round Rock.
A passenger taking the keys out of the ignition and locking the car? That will raise some red flags. It’s not usual behavior. It’s what we in the business like to call “suspicious.”
I would at that point be wanting to search that car, and to keep the passenger under control. I would stop them from pocketing those keys based on officer safety. Hands kill. Keep them out of your pockets and we are golden. I would also direct the passenger where to stand and which way to face. Nothing sinister about that.
A pat down? Hard to say from the account, but sure, why not? I’m a big fan of the whole going home alive thing. I search aggressively and for the smallest weapon. And yeah, I do package checks.
The rest has been covered. The driver gave consent to the search of the car and its contents. The passenger’s objections are meaningless from a legal standpoint. The officer searched the car, ran a dog through it, and cut them loose, without a ticket by the way. So what’s the problem?
Silly, silly people.
Shortly after my return from a 15 month deployment during the “Surge”, I got pulled over by a Texas DPS officer one sunny Sunday afternoon on I35 between Round Rock and Belton. I was asked if I knew how fast I was going. “No, officer, I do not.” (I was aggressively weaving in and out of traffic) She reported that she clocked me doing 20 mph over the limit, 80 in a 60. When requested, I provided the officer with my driver’s license, insurance papers, and military ID. The officer asked if this was the correct address on my driver’s license, handed back my insurance and military ID and returned to her patrol car. She then returned with a ticket that charged me with 17 over the limit. Anything higher would have been felony reckless driving. It was a stiff fine, but I learned from the episode. Be polite, be professional and you will be given a break. No search, no hassle, no fondling of my crotch. And not to speed anymore.
I’m going to side with AS on this one. The police do not have the right to search a vehicle over a speeding stop. I would also refuse to allow a search. They also do not need to know where I am going. None of their business. I’m surprised that so many people here have no problem with Government Employees (police) searching a vehicle without probable cause and demanding to know your movements. How to handle it? When asked where you are going just say home. When asked if they can search your vehicle always refuse. Politely. If asked why just say that you are not legally required to allow them to do it. BE POLITE AT ALL TIMES AND IF THEY INSIST ON SEARCHING THE VEHICLE JUST TELL THEM THAT YOU ARE NOT CONSENTING TO A SEARCH AND THEN STAND ASIDE AND LET THEM DO IT.
He was pulled over for speeding not the stupid sticker but not long ago in Texas a guy was stopped and the cops were heard on the recorder saying that they were going to search his truck for weapons because he had an NRA sticker on the window. The judge batted that one out of the park.
Ahhhhh… But the rub is the popo don’t need RAS for a consensual search, nor are they required to school you in the forth amendment. The passenger’s actions were suspicious enough that they might have even met with the RAS requirements. I agree with you on allowing a search. Sorry, I’m as pro cop as a civilian as you’ll find, but I’d just smile and tell them, “sorry, but there’s nothing illegal in my car and I won’t consent to a search”. However, this case is lacking in any basis for crying about violated rights. You have to exercise those rights before they can be violated.
I was pulled over by the CHP on I15 between Barstow and Victorville, CA. After giving me my speeding ticket, he politely asked to search my vehicle. I said no. He said he could detain me while he had a K9 unit brought out. I said no. He then said that if I don’t have anything to hide, then why can’t he search my vehicle. I again said no. After a short delay, I was allowed to leave with my ticket and civil rights intact.
Police need a search warrant, evidence of criminal activity, or permission to search your vehicle or home. The reason behind the search must stand up in court. 4th Amendment and all. Most modern law enforcement academies spend a large amount of the syllabus on search and seizure laws/regulations to insure that the officers understand and obey the law so as to maximize prosecutions. A pat down of a suspect/detainee for officer safety during a lawful encounter has been upheld in the courts.
Oh… Just noticed I’ve posted on this topic under two names. I posted here for quite a while under “Ray” until another “Ray” showed up one day. I added the “Bubblehead” to keep us separate, and because I was a submariner in the Navy. I was posting from my desktop this morning and didn’t notice I failed to update the name.
Sorry for any confusion
Matt, you are correct. The problem with this whining turd is that he didn’t have control of the vehicle or the driver’s mouth so he’s basically screwed as far as a protest of the Officer’s actions go. The Police can ask anything they want. It’s up to citizens to know their rights. If you don’t want to answer their questions or you wish to deny permission to search, that’s your right. However, not having to answer does not mean you can lie to the Police while they are conducting an investigation, and when you stonewall them completely, you run the risk of being detained longer for a more complete investigation. I have no problem telling them where I’m going, I shoot the breeze with Coppers all the time and have nothing to hide. That does not mean I’ll let them paw through my car because they’re on a fishing expedition.
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Waah, poor babies!
If consent was given to search the vehicle after a proper traffic stop, than damn right it’s legal. Many Americans would be surprised at the number of arrests due to contraband found on routine traffic stops or because the driver has a warrant.
Timothy McVeigh was arrested during a routine traffic stop by an alert officer that thought McVeigh was behaving suspicious. In 2003, my beat partner was shot on a routine traffic stop, but luckily survived even with one shot to the throat. He was also able to get one shot off at the fleeing vehicle before collapsing.
JonP, and AS, it’s called “totality of circumstances”. First off, we’re just hearing the meatball’s side of things. Of course, they did nothing wrong, so the stop, search and everything else is a “violation of his rights”. Or, maybe not so much. I’d dearly like to hear the other side of this story, I’m sure it’s a whole lot different than the one that this jerk-off is trying to peddle.
AS, care to explain how the police “overstepped” their authority, after only hearing one side of this little drama? Oh, that’s right it happened to members of IVAW, so their word is the final say in the matter?
Meanwhile, it seems “pretty clear” that members of IVAW routinely end up on the wrong end of law enforcement matters. How’s that for generalizing?
I remember a post Army Sergeant wrote some time back about getting pulled over for…hell, I don’t even remember why. Brake light out or something…anyway, her whole post was about how shaken up she was because she was sure she had been “profiled” because of her IVAW sticker, and her immense relief at not being harassed by the cop (or MP, I disremember) after all.
My point being, certain folks look for excuses to claim they are being picked on by the Man. “You only stopped me because I’m black/Hispanic/female/have my hat on sideways/have an IVAW sticker.”
And JonP: Seriously, re-read the part where the original crybaby says the driver gave consent to search. Also, I always ask people I have stopped routine questions about where they are going to/coming from, who else is in the car, etc etc. I do this for many reasons, not the least of which is to ascertain if something unlawful beyond a traffic violation is taking place. Sure, they can refuse to engage me in conversation, and some do, but most folks are able to answer these simple questions. Refusal or inability to do so isn’t a crime, but it does make me wonder…and usually means something else is going on. It’s called proactive law enforcement. Look it up, or better yet, see about going on a ride along with your local cops some weekend night. You might learn something.
Gang, I believe that due to the odd behavior of the passenger, the cops had probable cause to give them a bit of additional grief. While the driver was behaving normally, the passenger was doing a bunch of oddball shit and in general acting passively uncooperative. The search was fine, given that the driver gave consent. And in any state I ever lived in, that means from one end of car to other and everything inside it. The police were within their job parameters to do what they did.
Again, my initial impression was that it was a nonconsensual search. When I realized it was a consensual search, I think the driver wasn’t proactive in asserting their rights, but yes, legal.
Jack: Yeah. Sometimes you get nervous that you’ll be profiled. I wasn’t harassed, and as I recall I said so. I was up front about the difference between my fear and the reality.
Do I think bumper stickers affect tickets? Sure I do. I was never ticketed more than when I was in Florida, a place I only was present for five months, but a place that may well have taken offense to my anti-Florida bumper stickers after the 2000 election. I think they have a lot to do with whether you’re pulled over and whether you’re ticketed when you are. I do think you’ll be engaged in something you can be dinged on. But honestly, if even one commenter here can honestly tell me they NEVER go over the speed limit, I’ll be very surprised.
AS sez, “if even one commenter here can honestly tell me they NEVER go over the speed limit, I’ll be very surprised”
Yeah and when I exceed the speed limit I open myself up to be stopped by the police in the performance of their job.
That was actually a pretty dumb, liberal statement. Kind of reminds me of the person who is driving 20mph over the speed limit in a pack of 10 cars all traveling the same speed. He/she gets pulled over and complains because the police pulled him/her over instead of someone else. (We were all speeding officer). That is a totally irrelevant and ridiculous complaint. The point is he/she WAS driving over the speed limit, with or without bumper stickers.
AS, care to explain how an officer, sitting in his cruiser, using radar on cars approaching him, can see the bumper stickers on the rear of the approaching car? Or, the race, gender or age of the driver? Or if he’s working moving radar, how he/she can see the bumper stickers on a car approaching him/her? Just curious.
I would think your driving skills need serious upgrades if you were never “ticketed more than when I was in Florida, a place I only was present for five months”. I’ve known folks who’ve driven a lifetime, without ever getting a citation.
Army Sergeant, I went back and read your post about “Driving While IVAW.” You went on and on about how you were sure you were being profiled, when it turns out you had your head up your ass and forgot to turn on your headlights. The cop was doing you a good turn, and didn’t even write you a ticket for it. Then you went on and on about how even though you weren’t profiled THIS time, next time you might be. Oh, the drama.
Again, my point is some folks look for ways to be portrayed as victims of profiling cops. The crybaby who spawned this comment thread is doing it, and as far as I’m concerned, so are you. Case in point, your tangent about the Florida cops: did they write you tickets for having bumper stickers on your car, or for traffic offenses that YOU committed?
Keep beating that drum. If you tell enough people the cops are profiling you because of your bumper stickers and your chain command is out to get you because of your politics, maybe somebody will believe it and you can wear your “victim” label proudly.
Toothless Dawg, well said, sir.
If you are doing what you are supposed to be doing on a road, you don’t have anything to fear from a cop. They have better things to do than stopping drivers for nothing.
They could GIVE a rat’s behind about your bumperstickers. They probably have one or two on their own car!
Cops are humans just like the rest of us. Try prying your eyes away from their gun and badge, and look into their face. You might be surprised at what you find there.
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Hey guys, my reply was for general purposes not this specific instance. I am sure that peckerhead was being an assclown like that group of pussys excels at. Notice I said be polite and if the cop insists stand aside. Also if you refuse I hope you packed a lunch, you may be there awhile. I know all about consent of the driver to search. As a cdl holder I’ve had numerous arguements with others where they insisted they wouldn’t allow a search. My reply was go ahead, they will call the company and get consent cause its their truck
Also on baggage, if the luggage, briefcase etc is locked then the owner can refuse to open it and a search warrent must be issued to open it up. I just read a case where a gun was ordered returned and all charges dropped because the case was locked and no warrent was obtained.really though, its a lot easier to just be polite.
JonP: Just to clear one thing up, and I’ll let it be my last word on this one. About your comment about packing a lunch if you refuse consent, which I take to mean you can expect to be there awhile if you refuse: Not so.
There’s tons of case law that addresses how long a roadside detention can last. The objective standard is that the length of time must be “reasonable.” While that definition varies depending on circumstance, bottom line is that a traffic stop must be concluded as quickly as circumstances allows. We are generally not allowed to extend the length of detention once the enforcement portion of the stop is complete, barring any other reasonable suspicion.
What this means in layman’s terms is, if I stop you, and ask for consent and you refuse, I then must proceed with the traffic stop, and then once it is finished, cut you loose. I can call for a dog, and IF it arrives before I’ve finished running you for warrants and writing your ticket, the dog can do a free air sniff on your vehicle. But if I finish the ticket and make you stay while the dog arrives, IF I have no other articulable reasonable suspicion or reason to extend the detention past its original intent, the detention then becomes unlawful. Clear as mud?
My thoughts on this are pretty simple: the innocent have nothing to fear from me. A person who refuses consent, which is their absolute right, probably has a reason to not want me in their car, and that reason is probably criminal in nature. Good guys support and cooperate with cops.
Jack, most of my experiance in being stopped comes from either crossng the border or commercial vehicle stops which I can tell you from experience can take as long as they want it to and your attitude plays right into it. I hve always found that a few yes/no sirs to be helpful. First always be polite no matter what. We all have bad days. Thanks for the last post info was great
Jack, I’ve got to tell you, I have many Coppers as friends and I fully support you in your job. That said… as happy as I am to shoot the breeze with a LEO if I ever get pulled over, I have no intention of letting them search my car unless they can come up with RAS and a warrant. Nothing to hide, nothing to worry about, just a matter of principle. Not everyone who refuses is a bad guy or up to something.
Lately it has been a moot point as I haven’t been pulled over since about 1982.
Good guys support and cooperate with cops.
No, that’s not true. I’m a good guy, and I will not allow anyone to conduct an illegal search of my car or my home. The police must get a warrant.
On the IVAW bumper sticker thing:
I’ve been active duty since 2001 and never heard of IVAW until we got an email on a planned protest last October which led me to this site. Now, maybe I’ve been living in a cave, but I would almost be willing to bet that most people wouldn’t know what IVAW stands for if they saw a bumper sticker. On the other hand, if the stickers spell out the acronym, I stand corrected. After a couple years at Campbell (plus Iraq), over four in DC and now a few in the Bayou State I have never seen an IVAW sticker. I don’t see how any IVAW member would feel self-righteous enough to assume he/she were pulled over due to a bumper sticker.
I keep my truck sticker free. My beliefs and opinions are my own business and there are enough road rage drivers out there already. 🙂
Toothless:
My point was that people getting righteous about other people speeding while they speed themselves is ridiculous.
UpNorth:
Depends on how the stop goes down, to be honest. If the cop is just mingling in traffic, gets behind for a while, sees the bumper stickers, and /then/ turns the lights on, I personally find that a different situation than a cop pulling out of a obvious radar point and turning the lights on immediately to grab someone. As far as driving skills go, it’s not my lack of driving skills that causes me to speed, it’s a deliberate choice, and I take my licks for it. I’m just saying that when I always behave the same, and in one state, I get a disproportionate reaction, it’s going to make me wonder about that state, like any other scientific experiment when you only change one variable.
fm2176: They spell it out.
I have no issue with folks exercising their rights. Not at all. But I get a kick out of law abiding people who declare, usually indignantly, and usually in the comments of a blog post like this, that they will NEVER give the police consent to search their vehicle. They usually follow that up with the disclaimer that they have nothing to hide, but it’s principle. What principle, I wonder? Folks want crooks and drugs and illegal guns off the street. How do they think that happens? By accident? No, for street cops like me, most of that happens as a result of traffic stops, followed in a lot of cases by a consensual search. The consent search is one of our best tools for arresting bad people for bad things. Yet those who have nothing to fear from it would deny us that tool…out of “principle.” Not so, you say? Look, when YOU, the decent, reasonable law abiding good person that you are, who breaks no law other than the occasion minor traffic violation, when YOU decide that the police asking for consent to search a vehicle is somehow so invasive and so infringes on your 4th amendment rights that no reasonable person would grant such consent, then we, the police who are trying to take bad people and bad things off the street will be left without that valuable tool. It’s already happening. The rules for how and under what conditions we can ask for consent are already much more restrictive than when I became a cop. It’s getting tougher and tougher to get consent that stands up in court. Why the changes? Public attitude which leads to juries that won’t convict which leads to case law that ties our hands. And you’re the public. Where does this attitude come from? A distrust of authority in general and the police in particular? When you need help, I will come. Every time. No matter what. When I need help, you say it’s a matter of principle. I said that good guys support and cooperate with the cops. Well, maybe… Read more »
IVAW?? What’s that stand for? Insipid Vacuous Ass Whores? Intractable Vegetarians Against Wieners? Intimidated Virgins Against Women? Impersonating Veteran Army Warriors? Wow, this is way too easy.