Carl Webb; the IVAW deserter who didn’t desert
As most of my regular readers know, there’s turmoil churning around the ranks in the Iraq Veterans Against the War. Although it’s a result of many things, the most contentious point of the turmoil is between the regular patriotic members who merely oppose the war and the members who want the IVAW to become a tool of the International Socialist Organization – just a facade of veterans to lend some legitimacy to the entire socialist movement. The most vile and despicable member of IVAW, Carl Webb, belongs to that second group.
Earlier this month, TSO wrote about Webb when Casey Porter resigned from IVAW and brought our attention to Webb. Since then, Kris Goldsmith resigned and this stirred Webb up again. He bragged on his own Facebook page that he forced another resignation of a “conservative” from IVAW;
Webb continued calling him a conservative in the comments, and some of the brain-dead hippies chimed in;
Doug Zachary is the president of the local Geezers for Sitting On Our Hands in Austin. Just so he knows, Zachary had better get his story straight, too, because he’s next on our list.
Even Matthis Chiroux chimed in with his usual narcissistic victim theater;
Yeah, Goldsmith called Chiroux a rapist, but Chiroux was forced to admit later that he was indeed a rapist – but that it was the Army’s fault. And Goldsmith isn’t the lucky one in your “slamming” fantasy, stickboy.
Another goober (probably the biggest dork in IVAW) whom TSO wrote about last year, Reagan Sullivan, chimed in;
The especially profane Hart Viges is the chaplain of the IVAW’s Austin Chapter.
Now, in order to call Kris Goldsmith a conservative, Webb has to be to the Left of Stalin. And apparently he is;
Notice how he calls himself a Marxist/Leninist/Trotskyist? That means he’s wrapped around what he thinks are impressive labels with lots of syllables. He really doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but someone told him that stuff once and he liked the way it sounded. Webb is a poser and a leech.
He claims he’s an Licensed Practical Nurse, but he’s never finished school. Witness his MySpace page;
Two colleges, no graduation and making less than $30k. Nice. Also on his MySpace page he says he’s thinking about being a teacher – 43 years old and “thinking” about being a teacher. Real mature guy we’re dealing with here. He can’t finish a one-year certification program for LPN, but he’s “thinking” about four years of college to be a teacher.
He claims that the reason he’s an LPN but has no money or LPN jobs is because he doesn’t like working for big corporations – communism as an excuse for laziness.
All of that LPN training is being put to good use – he’s now a food server at the UT campus…for a corporation;
I guess working for a food service corporation is more spiritually satisfying than working for a health care corporation.
He also uses the social media networks to bum stuff from people. Here, he needs a bicycle so instead of getting a job and buying one, he wants you to be cool and give him one;
A 43-year-old with no job looking for a free, working bicycle. Can it get any more pathetic? Yes, it can. How about loaning Webb some space on your couch;
I found other instances of his begging for things like your computers and cameras, but I figured these two examples are enough to give you an idea what he’s like.
So now we know what a Marxist/Leninist/Trotskyist is – a mooch. The really pathetic part? That avatar is a picture of Carl in leathers standing by a motorcycle like it’s his – but it can’t be his, he needs a free bicycle and nap on your couch. I’ll bet the girls can’t keep their hands off of him.
So what does Webb do in his spare time? He claims he’s a Spartacist – that doesn’t mean that he supports any Grecian community’s struggle for freedom against Persians hordes;
He also writes manifestos for treason, like this one where he chastises the IVAW board for not advocating the right of the Iraqi and Afghan people to fight against US troops.
Notice that last line about “oppressed people have the right to resist occupation by any means necessary TOO [sic] INCLUDE FIGHTING US TROOPS”. That’s the problem he had with Casey Porter – Porter refused to sabotage his unit’s equipment and place his fellow soldiers in danger and Webb pestered him for it until Porter finally resigned from IVAW.
Webb has also threatened to quit IVAW because they’re not radical enough;
See that? IVAW, actual veterans of the war, won’t urge the enemy to kill our troops still engaged in that theater, so IVAW has ethical issues they need to resolve before they come up to Webb’s high standards.
So his military career? According to his autobiography, he joined the Army after he dropped out of high school in 1982 and left the Reserves in 1993. Then in August 2001, he enlisted in the reserves again because he couldn’t find a job. Then 9/11 happened, and all of a sudden he didn’t want to be in anymore.
Webb makes it sound like he was a victim of circumstances – he says he joined just a month before we were attacked and the Army wanted to send him to the war. Then he claims he deserted so he wouldn’t have to participate in the illegal war which he suddenly opposed. He claims he was in hiding from the Army for years – all the while giving interviews to the media about how brave he is. Finally, he claims, the Army sent him a discharge – so he must’ve done a real bang-up job of running and hiding if they mailed him a discharge.
But, see, that’s Webb’s story. The Army’s records tell a different story;
Webb left the Reserves in 1992 and never reenlisted like he claimed. He was never recalled, he was never in hiding from the Army. He was never eligible to even join IVAW despite their loose membership requirements. That’s his total military service in the FOIA document. Webb says he has different records that proves his story – no one has seen these documents and if he does have any, they’re all forgeries.
This is another example of IVAW buying the message without looking closely at the messenger. With his 44 days in the Army, Jesse MacBeth is more qualified to belong to IVAW than Carl Webb. How sad is that?
That’s two IVAW fakers we’ve discovered this month – first Duncan and now Webb. We gave Webb all weekend to come clean about this and he’s decided that he’s going to assume the untenable position that the records are wrong.
The records aren’t wrong, though. He’ll claim that his service after 2001 was in the Guard and that’s why it doesn’t show up in his ARMY records. Notice in Carl’s Form 2-1 he spent two years in the Reserves and then enlisted in the Georgia National Guard in 1992 and it’s all noted on his records and included in his total service;
So why would the Army stop keeping track of his service suddenly? The records aren’t wrong, Webb is lying to the IVAW.
Already I’ve been accused of conducting a “witch hunt” – I’m not. The more vile the message, the more likely the messenger is corrupt. I knew Webb was lying because it fit his personality – I just had to find out what he was lying about. You know, spread around the internet, the information available on Carl doesn’t mean much, but when it all comes together in a single entry, you get a good picture of a hustler and ne’er-do-well who depends on the goodwill and naive good intentions of youngsters in the peace movement. He’s a low-life scumbag, a thief and a liar.
On Saturday, I sent a copy of Webb’s FOIA search from St Louis to Alex Bacon, IVAW’s ED, Amadee Braxton, IVAW’s Development Director (read that; liaison to hippie organizations) and Membership Coordinator, Toby Hartbarger – so let’s see if they still think the message Webb has is more important than his fakery. I told them that I would include any comments they have in this post. Those comments are included below;
*chirp*
UPDATE: Alex Bacon did send a response, eventually;
Dear John,
We do have proof of service on file for Carl including a copy of his DD Form 4/1 (Enlistment/Reenlistment Document) showing him enlisting in the Army National Guard in 2001 as well as mobilization orders from 2004.
Sincerely,
Alex Bacon
Executive Director
Iraq Veterans Against the War
www.ivaw.org
I wrote back that since these are the official records, directly from the Army, he must be holding forgeries. Funny how I anticipated this type of response. We’ve seen forged records from IVAW which is why we depend on the Army’s records for the official story. Just like a civilian employer only accepts transcripts mailed directly from a university as proof of a person’s education.
But we’ve also learned that IVAW values some members more than others, especially if they have the message IVAW wants to hear and project.
Category: Antiwar crowd, Economy, Iraq Veterans Against the War, Phony soldiers, Usual Suspects
I think you may be giving Carl and the LA education system too much credit. I’m doubtful that they require a full four years of higher education to qualify for a teaching certificate, which is great for Carl, I suppose. Can you imagine all the trouble he’d have trying to fabricate credentials for that?
Bwahaha. Oh what a tangled web they weave, when they practice to deceive. Don’t fuck with Jonn, Carl. You’re a weasel. Now we all know how big of one. Chirp.
Heh!
Great work, Jonn!
You guys are the kiss of death to the IVAW.
I’ll wager the rest of the frauds wake up every morning in a puddle wondering if they have been featured on This Ain’t Hell overnight.
Nothing like drinking coffee and finally having proof Carl Webb is a liar it’s going to be a good day.
The dog bit me. The wife kicked me out. I just got fired. Christ, my life reads like a country song right now. But I read this and my day just got a whole lot better.
Polyamorous? So he’s a lying, socialist, swinger looking for someone’s couch to crash on? Forgive me if I don’t volunteer my pull-out.
Bohica22: Somebody once told me in college was that the best thing about protests was that the girls tended to be, well, easy.
So he tells his ‘story’, tells them how brave he is for deserting and resisting, they swoon, he gets laid. Noticing how many times he lists it or related words, I’ll bet $5 most of his ‘activism’ revolves around that.
*chirp* is right…the silence is deafening.
Carl or Alex Bacon should provide copies of those…[DD Form 4/1 (Enlistment/Reenlistment Document) showing him enlisting in the Army National Guard in 2001 as well as mobilization orders from 2004].
Betting they won’t do it.
Remember this? http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=7237 Ya’ll ran a similar FOI on me last fall and went so far as to say I was faking the whole IRR resistance thing. Anyway, you were %100 wrong, as you came to learn, as you might come to learn about Carl. I don’t know. But I do know I trust my executive director a lot more than Lilyea, whose information has proven most unreliable in the past over very similar issues, as is apparent in the above link. Either way, hate on, haters.
And I’ve never admitted to rape. You should stop saying this (though I’m sure you won’t) because it IS libel. Goldsmith’s “revelations” came 24 hours AFTER I gave my Winter Soldier testimony in St. Louis about prostitution in the military and how I got in to begin with, which is what I was reporting on in “Confessions.” Again, your information is just flat out wrong and must be taken with many grains of salt by reasonable people.
I don’t read this web-rag or chime in that much, because I don’t take it seriously, but this post is actually making the rounds. Congratulations. I hope we get to expose you as peddlers of sloppy and incomplete research once again.
Resist U.S. Genocide worldwide!
Jonn wrote: Yeah, we’re unreliable, and you’re an Afghanistan veteran, right? Notice in that post you linked (on the blog you don’t read) that I speculated about your status, I didn’t draw any conclusions. I only presented the facts – a concept with which you are grossly unfamiliar.
BWAHAHAHAHA you jackass.
I urge you to sue us for “Libel” since we will be able to use the truth as defense and figure it out for sure. Either way, Goldsmith says you admitted it, ergo an admission against interest etc.
Let me know how that GI Bill application I going, I have all the paperwork ready to go my friend. Still think a good DD214 outweighs a subsequent invalidating one? Or did you contact the General COunsel at the VA like I did?
Bohica22- My question is how can he be polyamorous and not have a love life
“Resist U.S. Genocide worldwide!”
By holding signs, posting on the Internet, and banging young girls that don’t know better!
*clenched fist salute*
I thought he was doing that by eating at Burger King.
Bohica: I’ve got a couch for him to crash on. I’ll put it on rollers at the top of a hill. I’ll even give a push. Oh wait, he probably means the “I’m a pathetic sponger type of crash” Never mind.
God, I love the smell of Burned Posers in the Morning
Smells Like………Victory
Sean….
Smells more like shit-burning detail!!
Mattis–prison is full of rapists who never admitted they raped anyone, either.
I can see why Matthis gets so emotional over this story. Looking at Carl must be like looking at his future self. Maybe, if he’s lucky, when Matthis is 43, he too can be sleeping on other peoples couches, making less than $30,000, thinking about maybe becomming a teacher and searhing for polyamorous partners. Every get the feeling that Carl is the IVAW version of Ben Affleck’s character in Dazed and Confused?
“…the regular patriotic members who merely oppose the war”
Who in their right patriotic mind would oppose fighting a war on the turf of Islamofascists who want us dead?
That’s ‘patriotic’? I had no idea.
“Resist U.S. Genocide worldwide!”
I’m surptised he didn’t throw in a couple of “troof ta powa” chants before he went back to mommy’s basement.
“Resist U.S. Genocide worldwide!”
I’m surprised he didn’t throw in a couple of “troof ta powa” chants before he went back to mommy’s basement.
What a strange little man he must be. I missed most of the 60’s while in the Navy, so I don’t get the whole protest movement anyway, but I would think that having life long liars in the movement would be kinda, sorta, counter productive.
DD214 available upon request. This is my first comment here.
Not too mention that he spent 10 years in the Guard/Reserves and was only a SPC. I know that prmotions are slower than on active duty, but he must have been a dirtbag to only make E-4 in 10 years.
Old Tanker..
It’s now called “doing the Murtha” in my unit.
I would like to say for the record that Hart Viges is a great person, even though he swears. As far as Carl goes, good job!
I had heard he was a good guy too, and I suppose swearing and a religious mindset aren’t mutually exclusive, albeit I don’t see it helping his case.
I have no love lost for Carl Webb and have tried to have him thrown out of IVAW twice. (I thought I succeeded the first time. But, then he showed up at Winter Soldier.)
Thanks John!
This is crazy, and my first time reading this blog.
How much time did you spend requesting FOIA materials re: Carl Webb that could’ve been done helping returning vets process VA paperwork or anything else?
GI Jane you should read the Declaration of Independence or Constitution before you go spouting off about what patriotism is. Try learning about foreign treaties we are required to uphold too. Well, if reading and learning are things you value – apparently you only value fear tactics and ignorance based on your posts. Idiot.
“How much time did you spend requesting FOIA materials re: Carl Webb that could’ve been done helping returning vets process VA paperwork or anything else?”
So far I have offered to do the VA paperwork for Adam Kokesh, and 4 other IVAW members who might not want me to publicly use their names. Adam didn’t need it since his was accepted the next day. How much time have I spent doing VA paperwork, 40 hours a week for several years. Now, how much paperwork have you done?
Perhaps you could point to a specific treaty just to make this easier. And make it specific, because I want to test your knowledge of International law as incorporated into our laws.
Marine Artist:
The crazy thing to me is that IVAW tolerated Carl Webb violating its code of conduct for so long. Regardless of this latest piece, carl should have been thrown out years ago. TO my knowledge he was in 2004. However, he showed up at Winter Soldier to create new drama. Carl Webb and others like him discredit the Peace Movement in two ways. First, they give credence to those opposed to the movement and second, sew disharmony within the movement itself. Carl Webb seeks only his own gain and nothing else.
GI Jane:
In some ways marine Artist is right. There are constitutional objections to the IRaq War. My objection is strategic. We did not commit enough forces to Afghanistan so that we could commit those forces to Iraq. Yet, Iraq was a contained threat and the Iraq war created a situation in which Iraq has thrived and our forces ar stretched very thin. I would argue that this has contributed to the North Korea problem we currently face.
Marine Artist (Is that supposed to be ironic?)
First of all, it’s “sow”, not “sew” since you’re so damn smart and felt the need to call someone an “idiot” online.
The war in AfPak preceded Iraq by 16 months so your argument regarding witholding forces makes no sense. Iraq was in no way contained and there is credible evidence they were providing material support to fundamental Islamic terrorists. Secondly, they were continuing to pursue WMD while frustrating UN resolutions that already called for use of force. For further elaboration on this subject, research the removal of almost 5,000 lbs of yellowcake uranium from Iraq to Canada last June.
These are facts, not opinions and can be easily researched by anyone who is willing. Perhaps you should heed your own advice. Our founding documents did not set out to define themselves or any individual or group as patriots. Perhaps you are confusing this with your high school history book. The Declaration of Independence set out to define the reasons for the colonies break from the crown and the goals of the revolution set upon the thinking of rationalists such as Locke and Rousseau. The Constitution organizes our framework of government and our fundamental rights…such as free speach.
So, how many of your fellow Marines have you helped today?
Jonn, are you SURE that you did, in fact, receive all of Carl Webb’s records and that there are not more records to show that he may, in fact, have enlisted in the National Guard in 2001? I talked to Carl Webb at the VFP convention in Seattle, whatever year that was, which was when I first met him, and while I’m not saying I’m a 100% walking lie detection machine, I did not have any kind of sense that he was lying about that. Now I make no secret about the fact that I hate Carl’s politics, to be sure, but I think he is pretty proud of the fact that he is a deserter and that nobody’s ever come to pick him up all these years. Another reason I question if you really do have all of his documents is because my own DD-214 – at least my original one, which is the one I have (though granted, I know that it is missing a couple things anyway), does not show anything on there whatsoever that I had unfortunately signed up for a 6-year IRR commitment even as I was getting out after 8 years of active duty. (I got talked into the 6-years of IRR upon my discharge from Regular Army when I was 8 months pregnant and was in no condition to think rationally…) Nobody looking at my DD-214 would know that I had a 6-year IRR commitment following that since I had completely fulfilled that obligation before my pregnancy discharge. Okay, just to be sure, I just looked at it again. Indeed, there is nothing on there indicating I had any IRR obligation, but I know that I did and I do have other documents showing that. Thus it seems totally logical to me that this is what the case is with Carl Webb with regard to the National Guard. How do you KNOW that you have all of his documents? I’m personally not convinced. I think Carl is telling the truth -that he is, in fact, a deserter. Carl, remember our conversation at the… Read more »
And having worked with treaties ad nauseum in my previous work with the US and other governments I can tell you this: most if not all of them allow one party to withdraw at any time.
Oooooo, snap.
LtCol Tim:
I am not Marine Artistand you seem to have gotten us confused. You are right. There was a typo I did mean Sow not Sew. Perhaps Olbermnan should call me his Worser Person in the World tonight. Ah, forget it his show is already in the can for tonight. But, alas, I will probably do something equally dumb tomorrow.
In any event, I have seen no credible information that Iraq was harboring terrorist. General Zinni and General Jones both wrote about this assessment.
Twice after 9/11 my battalion was told that we were not going to Afghanistan because we were being held back for Iraq. The Iraq war drums were beating in the winter of 2002 up to the invasion. It was planned much farther in advance.
I am sure you really don’t care. But, I’ve been helping veterans since I got out. I am currently tying to get hired by my local Employment Security Commission as a Veterans Rep. We may disagree about the politics of the wars. But, I think we can agree that each of us should be taken care of.
HM2..Ret.
Thank you for your help to our veterans. It does matter and I do feel that veterans are unfairly maligned and lack critical support that this country owes them. This is not new, nor is it limited to post 9/11 or Vietnam vets.
Without getting into too much detail, my work as a Corps planner during 2002-03 gave me a good insight into the Army’s deployment capabilities and priorities in that period. That and other information encountered in the course of my subsequent deployment to Iraq leaves no doubt in my mind that there was a clear linkage to terrorism and that Iraq had not foresworn their pursuit of WMD. What I find disturbing is the media’s manipulation of the the real facts regarding the war and the intellectual laziness on the part of many if not most people to do some basic research on their own.
Without going on a rant, the relevance to the post on Carl Webb and his ilk is their cynical manipulation of veterans and veterans’ issues to further their political agenda, and in many cases their financial well-being. This attempt to hijack the real narrative of our soldiers’ (I use that term collectively, if somewhat parochially) service and sacrifice turns my stomach. As a group they are despicable, and in individual cases such as Webb, cannot not even meet the ridiculously low standards for admission for IVAW. They prey upon the politically unsophisticated and discard them when they outlive their usefulness. This behavior alone is enough to tell you what kind of squaddie they were.
Webb, Kokesh, Chiroux, et al, will continue to perpetrate this fraud unless folks like TSO speak out. As I’m on active duty, my political voice is somewhat limited. That just goes with the territory. Freedom of speach is an American right. Lying, manipulation, and attacks on the real heroes are anathema to this country’s ideals.
Truly trying to assist veterans as you are has nothing in common like IVAW. Best of luck.
LtCol Tim,
I appreciate that you are against lying and manipulation. I am too. But what do you think about positions taken by retired military people of your rank and higher which places them on the opposite side of the fence than you? Do you view them also as liars, manipulators, and attackers on the real heroes?
Personally I am disturbed to see that someone in your position does not seem to respect the fact that it is reasonable for a person to oppose the war who still supports the troops (though I’m by no means suggesting that Carl Webb is such a person).
Debbie,
It isn’t a question of whether I agree with a person’s point of view regarding the war. I don’t have any issue with them proselityzing, as long as they are honest. The target of my response was those who misrepresent themselves, their agenda, or the relevant facts under the guise of supporting the troops. Those people have an entirely different agenda. Also, one’s rank in the military no intinsic worth when debating this issue.
LtCol Tim,
Thank you for your response. I appreciate that.
6BohicaTwentyTwo Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 9:13 am
Polyamorous? So he’s a lying, socialist, swinger looking for someone’s couch to crash on? Forgive me if I don’t volunteer my pull-out.
HAHA if only his daddy had offered the pull out!
Oh, golly gee. What a thrill. Mr. Chiroux graced us with his ‘esteemed (choke) presence’. He’s a big celebrity now, don’t you know. Makes big speeches about his mean (poor southern) family and raping helpless girls. Boo hoo. And some shit about Anthrax testing.
Thought you were laid up in a hospital somewhere, Chiroux. Who’s paying your bills now? Now that your big ‘FIGHT’ is over, huh? No more ‘legal defense fund’. Guess that’s why you need the girlfriend. But, I heard she was leaving your sorry ass. Met her once. She seemed like a smart person. Hope she wises up.
and, the point is, that at the end of the day, we (Remember, 84%approval rating for the invasion of Iraq) made a call, based on the best intel we could get. we invaded. most of our intel was bad. not all of it. but most. The crux of the argument at the time was, “hey, this is the best intel we got, yes its dicey, but can we REALLY take the chance the intel is wrong?” and we all felt pretty comfortable that we couldn’t. so, we invaded. after that, were in for the long haul. until its done. Now, we can all sit here and monday morning quarterback ourselves to death, as we are, or, we can agree we mad a bad call, figure out what we did wrong, what we could do better, and move the fuck on? Heres the thing that chaps my ass about the anti-war types: by labeling themselves as anti- war, it automatically casts the dissenter (ME) into the role of being pro-war. noones pro-war! It comes down to our ability to draw a line as a society, and say, this you shall not cross, or we will f**k you up. 12 years. 16 UN resolutions. our own 12 year old cease fire agreement. 8 years of oil for food corruption. 16 new palaces. Halabja. Anfal. Gimme a break. The world rejoiced when we freed Iraq. we made some mistakes after that, true. but we brought in Petraeus in the middle of the 3rd Quarter, and we got right back in the ballgame. the anti’s seem to think that there should never be a line drawn, ever, or else we’ll share our feelings with you, and look disappointed. Me, I think we should have drawn that line once, and enforced it correctly from the git go. “Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.” ~ John F. Kennedy War is an ugly thing, but… Read more »
I’m popping up my head just to say that I’m not deliberately ignoring this thread but have some serious issues I need to take care of Army-side this week and won’t have time to spend on blogwar. Best to all.
Matthis states in this thread: “…I’ve never admitted to rape.”
In Matthis’ Manifesto he states: “I felt as though I had raped her.”
In Matthis’ Manifesto he later states in reference to the above: “I knew I had done wrong…”
In Matthis’ Manifesto he he goes on to state: “I apologize from the bottom of my heart to the women I’ve hurt as a result of my sexual dehumanization. …I’m sorry for the wrong I have done to womankind.”
You admit you did wrong. You apologize for that wrong. But you weasel out of responsbility for that wrong with “I felt as though…” You want to stand up and be counted, then stand up like a man and take responsibility for “your” actions, don’t be a wordsmith weasel.
I would accept the premise that you are a man of principle. I would accept your calls for bringing those in high places whom have wronged to justice. But in so doing would you not make the same call for those in low places. Would not your own principles demand you turn yourself into the Philippine consulate to face justice for the rape you “felt as though” you committed.
You have made some outrageous accusations, excuse me “Confessions” in your Manifesto “Confessions of a War Resistor”. I challenge you, let the light of truth you demand shine back on you. Publically authorize the release of all your juvenile records, legal, counseling, school, everything, with a legal, notorized public statement.
Unless you are willing to be subjected to your own high moral standards your fifteen minutes of fame are over.
Consider the glove thrown Sgt. “Felt as though”
I found the Iraqi Perspectives Project the most comprehensive report on Saddams links to terrorism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Perspectives_Project
This is the five page exeutive summary:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/03/14/saddam.terrorism.pentagon.pdf
This is the full report, which is 94 pages long:
http://media.npr.org/documents/2008/mar/gjeltenpentagonvol1.pdf
The ABSTRACT summary is probably the best description you will read without spending a few hours:
Captured Iraqi documents have uncovered evidence that links the regime of Saddam Hussein to regional and global terrorism, including a variety of revolutionary, liberation, nationalist, and Islamic terrorist organizations. While these documents do not reveal direct coordination
and assistance between the Saddam regime and the al Qaeda network, they do indicate that Saddam was willing to use, albeit cautiously, operatives affiliated with al Qaeda as long as Saddam could have these terrorist–operatives monitored closely. Because Saddam’s security organizations and Osama bin Laden’s terrorist network operated with similar aims (at least in the short term), considerable overlap was inevitable when monitoring, contacting, financing, and training the same outside groups. This created both the appearance of and, in some ways, a “de facto” link between the organizations. At times, these organizations would work together in pursuit of shared goals but still maintain their autonomy and independence because of innate caution and mutual distrust. Though the execution of Iraqi terror plots was not always successful, evidence shows that Saddam’s use of terrorist tactics and his support for terrorist groups remained strong up until the
collapse of the regime.
Caroline wrote: “Bohica22- My question is how can he be polyamorous and not have a love life?”
That’s easy, he uses both hands.
Army Sergeant,
sent you an e-mail. waiting for a reply.
I echo Casey’s thumb’s up on Hart. I have a pretty nasty tongue myself…but hopefully my activism more than makes up in bonus kharma points. Hart’s got LOTs of those and is a wonderful human being and even though I think accountability in the movement is extremely important, I appreciate Hart’s stance to keep focused and moving forward. It takes many voices…just as long as they’re true.
Whois HM2(FMF/SW)Ret?
HM2(FMF/SW)Ret.,
How could I have been thrown out in 2004 since I was a member until 2005?
Who is TSO?