Pingree; Marine Corps tattoo policy discriminates
Chief Tango sends us links to articles about this woman in Maine who wants to enlist in the Marine Corps, but her tattoo prevents that endeavor. The tattoo on Kate Pimental, a 20-yer-old, is just below her collarbone and reads “Let your smile change the world but never let the world change you”. According to the Bangor Daily News, the tattoo would not be visible on a male Marine because of the crew neck T-shirt in their uniform bag, however, since women wear a V-neck T-shirt, Pimental’s tattoo is visible, thus disqualifying her from service. She got her Congresswoman, Chellie Pingree, involved in the discussion. Pingree wrote to the commandant of the Marine Corps, General Robert Neller;
[Pingree protested] “several policies and regulations that, however unintentional, directly affect female Marines’ opportunities to serve. As women take more active roles in defending this country, it’s important that we address some of the discrepancies that provide men with options unavailable to their female counterparts.”
I guess it’s too much to point out that Ms. Pimental could get the ridiculously long phrase removed from her body, if she really wants to join the Marine Corps that badly. It probably never crossed her mind. I don’t have a tattoo and I don’t see the attraction, but I do know that a tattoo a girl gets for her 18th birthday is way different than many of the tattoos she’ll encounter in the Marine Corps.
The services trying to regulate body art is set up to fail. It’s going to prove a fruitless endeavor. Other than overtly racist or sexist tattoos, they should just get right out of that business. I’m not sure that a tattoo which draws attention to a lady’s chest will be what she wants in that environment, anyway.
Category: Marine Corps
I have to wonder why in the f a young women would want to desecrate her body to begin with. Guess its the trend to be on display rather than a private tat, sigh!
Dumb shyt should have thought of that before she had that idiotic tattoo in the first place!
I suppose it hasn’t occurred to that young lady that such an obvious tattoo is going to put a bullseye on her with the DIs.
“Let your smile change the world but never let the world change you”.
Ummmm. Yeah. Like Marine Boot Camp won’t change her.
She must have thought she heard she could go to “Paris” once she joined.
That flowery phrase flies in the face of military indoctrination.
Now if her tat said this, she might have a chance:
“I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they’d never expect it.” — Jack Handy
Thing is this, regardless of how we feel about her tattoo she is being denied the right to serve where a male would not be because of it. That is what makes it discriminatory, not the “body art” itself.
I have several, none on my face, neck, or head. Only one of which is visible wearing short sleeves, and another if I wore shorts… which would have been prohibited under recent changes to Army Regs until they got a Sgt Major with some common sense.
Yes, she could get it removed. I said that about some other dumbass recently. In her case though, again if she was a male it would be a non issue.
Let her serve.
Agreed. It would seem to me that the young lady has a valid beef here.
As an aside – assuming the article is correct about this point, why in the hell does the USMC require women to wear v-neck tshirts vice crew neck tees? That just doesn’t make sense.
Duh, so that male Marines can see their cleavage area better….
Seving is not a right.
No, it isn’t. However, if she were a male it would not be an issue and they would be allowed to.
That is the issue, and if you cannot see it there are two standards at play here.
The military is full of all kinds of “two standards” situations. This isn’t the first to be brought up.
There is no discrimination here. Ther regulation states that tatttoos are not to be visible in uniform… period.
The reg says nothing about male or female.
Your argument is invalid.
Next thing you know is females will cry discrimination because they can’t have the same size tats on their arms as men because their arms are smaller, or can’t have one on their leg because it will show in a skirt.
It’s a uniform policy.
If she wanted to be a Marine, she should have done her research before getting the ink.
So, aside from this tee shirt business, what else? I mean, why have any differences at all, aside from the bra business, I guess. And even that is not a necessity for all women. Are all uniforms the same for both sexes? Are hairstyles? If the matter is carefully examined, I am quite certain that there will not be found a medical or anatomical basis for any of the differences in regs for men and women. Why shouldn’t a male Marine be permitted to wear a dress or a bra and panties? If he can do his job well, that’s all that matters. Or so the argument goes.
The slope is solid ice. Enjoy the ride. We are not nearing the bottom yet.
No, this is a double standard when it comes to enlistment opportunities, that has a negative impact on females based on nothing more than the location of a piece of body art.
You are really stretching there.
I am stretching what? I can replace your nouns with others and you will be in total agreement. Let’s play. I’ll go first.
Transgenders: No, this is a double standard when it comes to enlistment opportunities, that has a negative impact on transgenders based on nothing more than their gender preference.
Gays: No, this is a double standard when it comes to enlistment opportunities, that has a negative impact on gays based on nothing more than their sexual preference.
Infantrywomen: No, this is a double standard when it comes to MOS opportunities, that has a negative impact on opportunities for women based on nothing more than their gender.
Dresses for Men: No, this is a double standard when it comes to personal choice, that has a negative impact on morale for men who are cross-dressers, based on nothing more than their gender.
Anyone may join in, here. It’s a long and wide slope.
Heck-why wear a uniform at all? I’m sure lots of those you mentioned would look smashing in a nice chiffon-and isn’t that what really matters, since it’s obviously “all about you”?
Naked? Why not? Damn good idea and, yes, it is all about the self. This is personal expression and dinosaurs like me need to either die or get with the program.
It would save us quite a bit over time, what with not having Natick labs come up with new uniform ideas every few years.
And we wouldn’t see any more claims of people being “secret naked combat warriors”, either! (smile)
I don’t think I would care to see a naked FV from Tenneesse. Or the Round Marine.
I don’t think so though. It’s “no visible tattoos in X uniform.” I’m unclear as to exactly which uniform is the standard they use, but that’s kind of irrelevant in my opinion. The uniforms are different between the genders, but the standards apply equally. The standard is not “males are allowed chest tattoos and females are not.” The standard is regarding visible tattoos in the appropriate uniform for the gender.
The standard is being applied equally, it just happens to have a different “template” that the subject’s tattoos must fit in.
I don’t think her smile is going to change the USMC in the least. But I do see the SJW coming out of their basement’s in force to support here.
LARS were are you?
“Smile Towards Enemy” That’s the new claymore message, I hear.
So turn that frown upside down you are a NO/GO.
The military discriminates in many ways, so do many other federal agencies. I guess it’s her prerogative to complain, but doubt it will matter…or necessarily should.
My question is why does the Marine Corps issue different types of t-shirts to men and women. It seems to me the answer is just to issue them all crew neck shirts.
Well if a man enlisted in the Marine corps as a woman and was expected to wear the same V-neck shirt, his tattoo would also prevent him from serving. What I am saying is that the rule is not discriminatory against women it is just an unfortunate circumstance. Will you blame the women in the marine corps for choosing more comfortable shirts? Some times the world is what it is. You have to adapt and overcome… right?
Most of the best Marines I served with had tattoos. Some of them were practically covered in them, back in the days when the only restriction was above the neckline of your shirts and below the wrist. This namby-pamby bullshit is such a silly waste of time.
Uumm…this is wrong. And I don’t mean what is happening to her is wrong. MCO P1020.34G W/Changes 1-5 is the most current Marine Corps Order I can find governing uniforms and their wear. Women are not REQUIRED to wear V-necked t-shirts. Those are optional items. Maybe someone who reads here and is still on active duty can access something better than what I can find with Google but according to that…I call bullsh!t. Either she’s being lied to, or is lying about why she was DQ’d.
Josh, I found the same regulation. I think this is what you are speaking:
http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/MCO%20P1020.34G%20W%20CH%201-5.pdf
Chapter 1 states that Tattoos on the neck are prohibited.
Paragraph 3036 in Chapter 3 states that the V-Neck T-Shirt is optional for both male and female.
Something is not right.
I read thru the regulation again and could not find any reference to tattoos on the collarbone.
The neck, yes.
Collarbone, no.
So my reference to the neck is my mistake.
Sorry.
This reminds me of the story about Loki losing a bet and the consequences were that he had to have his head cut off. Loki agreed that the trolls (or whoever) could have his head, but not a bit of his neck and since they could not agree with where his head ended and neck began he was able to walk away from the bet.
Yep. Unless the regulations are changed (or the Corps makes an exception, which I doubt they will do), she very well may be SOL in getting her wish.
If a male prospect walked into the office with a tattoo on his neck, he’d be disqualified too.
ADDED: AskaMarine makes a good point. Given the location of that tattoo, it strikes me that it wouldn’t be seen in any uniform. After all, it’s not like its displayed around her neck like a necklace. Beyond that, does she meet the other qualifications required?
That’s my “take”, also.
If the V-neck is an optional item, then something certainly isn’t “lining up” here. Not sure we have the whole story.
She may well have a beef – but it may be that the recruiter who told her “no” either lied to her about why or was wrong, not that she’s being discriminated against on the basis of gender.
It would be visible in the Womens Service “C” uniform. Until women are allowed to wear a white crew neck shirt with that uniform it will remain an issue.
Refun0369: Did something change? Still reading in the regulation under paragraph 3036, Chapter 3 that “the white v-neck undershirt is
authorized for wear with service and dress uniforms at the individual’s
option”.
I retired just a couple years ago and can’t remember ever seeing a female Marine wear a v-neck skivvie shirt. I used to not wear one at all just to pissed people off…t-shirts are optional for male Marines worn only to cover unsightly chest hair…and since I have no chest hair and you can’t see my tattoos there wasn’t a thing they could do about it except grumble.
So, what happens when a transgender who was born a male and has the same tattoo around his neck? Which standards get applied?
First, could she wear a male crew neck t-shirt? Problem solved.
Second, if she was REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT SERVING, she could have the laser treatment to remove the tattoo. Problem solved.
Third, “but never let the world change you”? Really? If the Corps allows you to join them (see how I did that?), you WILL be changed. Guar-an-damn-teed.
She could indeed.
But if USMC regs don’t actually forbid the tattoo (see the discussion above), why should she?
So “discrimination” is the card played when some twenty-something snowflake doesn’t get what he/she/it wants when they can’t play the race and/or gender card these days?
No Ragrets!
That’s funny, its one of the deleted scenese, but still hilarious.
I hope she didn’t get charged too much for that mess. I could have done better with a Sharpie.
What if she were to get a Confederate Flag tattoo just below her neckline? She can serve with that other idiot from a few weeks back. Other than the tattoo, how many disqualifications does she have? Is she mentally morally and physically qualified?
I followed the link to the news story and …yeah, I’d hit it.
Ditto.
Tritto.
Her recruiter must be gay if he didn’t want her to join.
If her recruiter was female, she’s peanut butter and jealous.
Probably had more to do with MEPS than anything.
I knew of a girl who got kicked off the med decks and had to come back another day for wearing a thong. Yeah. 18 year old girl in a thong and some idiot lost their shit over it.
Yep, I tagged that below. MEPS is the real force behind acceptance or denial.
From my experience there are two types of females in the Marines. Super model hot (i.e., Catherine Bell from JAG) or “wait, you’re a chick? Oh man, I thought you were a dude all this time.”
Bangor?
Yes.
So she isn’t letting the world change her? Was she born with that tattoo?
So I feel compelled to offer my opinion on this because I’m still on active duty and know something about recruiting and the tattoo policy. I’m also originally from Maine but that’s beside the point.
It doesn’t bar her from enlisting and after she enlists, it doesn’t bar her from any commissioning or WO accession program. If the tattoo doesn’t show in PT gear, it’s not a disqualifier although may require at waiver to enlist.
I’ve seen folks with a felony and tattoos on their hand (which is prohibited by the order) get a waiver, enlist and go on to serve honorably.
Based off the article at BDN, I do not believe we’re getting all the facts. If she doesn’t get a waiver, have it removed and try again. The question really is “How bad to you want to be a Marine?”
I strongly believe there is something else going on here that we’re not being told in the article. I’ll reserve judgment until I know more.
I’m with you CWO5USMC… I think that there is more to this story than what is being reported.
Just like the last tattoo policy story. Just look at Confederate Flag Tattoo Boy’s photograph, I doubt that he could pass an ASVAB. And more than likely, he probably had other issues that would require a waiver. With drawdowns in place, the military can be more selective. If they are already making mission, why would a recruiter waste his time seeking a waiver on the tattoo? Plus, if she had any other issues regarding mental (low ASVAB score, non high school grad), moral (criminal record or drug usage) or physical (height/weight, medical issues) they are not going to put their ass on the line. Back in the day when Hack was recruiting, no waiver could even be submitted for an applicant getting less than 50 on the AFQT.
Pingree is a mouth breather of the first order.
Sadly, this young woman does not meet current standards. No matter what the standards WERE, today is a different story.
Again, as said elsewhere, she could get it removed, and I’m sure the Marines would be happy to have her. Until then, or until the regs change, she’s fighting a losing battle.
Maybe she can work for the good Congresswoman. After all, a professional appearance seems to be a flexible definition with Pingree.
Why is this even newsworthy?
If this standard bugs her, what other standards would cause her grief once she was in the Military and warrant a call to her Congresswoman?
Sounds like nothing but trouble to me.
What?
In 2013, Kate Pimental, who was a driver of a vehicle, was involved in a car crash where 5 people were injured:
http://www.pressherald.com/2013/12/17/five_injured_in_lebanon_car_crash/
The article states no one in the car was wearing a seat belt.
Maine has a Seatbelt Law and there are fines with offenses.
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/29-a/title29-asec2081.html
Ironically, the Bangor News who did the story about her tattoo did a story in 2013 before her accident about the Maine Seatbelt Law:
http://bangordailynews.com/2013/05/20/news/state/maine-police-cracking-down-on-drivers-who-dont-wear-seat-belts/
Speed was also a factor in the crash.
Don’t know if she was ticketed for speeding, not wearing a seatbelt or endangering the lives of others in the car. Also, don’t know if this has any play in her wanting to enlist in the Marine Corps.
How ironic is that? lol.
Who knows….as IDC SARC mentions below, this MIGHT be “The Rest of the Story”..
To be fair, until she actually serves, she may not have been exposed to the mandatory pre-holiday weekend safety presentation of “There’s Room To Live In This Car”.
And there is the money shot. She probably required a waiver for any criminal charges related to the automobile accident, and she is not giving us the “rest of the friggin’ story”.
I am of the opinion that this whole tattoo thing the Corps is playing is nothing more than an example of the Plastic Saint mindset that’s plaguing our military at this time.
A military is a war fighting force. War fighting includes fighting. Traditionally, the military has been a home for the obnoxious, belligerent and hostile type folks. You know, the type that fights.
Now it’s all about the pretty, the petty and the non-offensive.
God forbid a Marine offend someone somewhere somehow.
“I’d like to have two armies: one for display with lovely guns, tanks, little soldiers, staffs, distinguished and doddering Generals, and dear little regimental officers who would be deeply concerned over their General’s bowel movements or their Colonel’s piles, an army that would be shown for a modest fee on every fairground in the country. The other would be the real one, composed entirely of young enthusiasts in camouflage uniforms, who would not be put on display, but from whom impossible efforts would be demanded and to whom all sorts of tricks would be taught. That’s the army in which I should like to fight.”
― Jean Lartéguy
This is up on the wall in my office. I found it 3 PCSs ago in an office and kept it with me.
indeed
The bio of the man who wrote it is mildly interesting as well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Lart%C3%A9guy
Based on this rather silly bit of ‘look at me’ skin decor, and the fact that this bimbo also caused an accident for which she was not only responsible, but had also ignored a safety rule, i.e., wear a seat belt, this twit seems a bit more interested in getting attention than she is in having the job of being a U.S. Marine. That’s the surface impression.
You all know that when you go to the recruiter’s den, you’re going for a job interview, which may also be a career interview. While I’m sure that recruiters are charged with ‘meet the quota’ stuff, they’re also supposed to know who will and won’t be good at the job.
This one, I’d say no. She’s more interested in doing what she wants to do, and screw the regs, than anything else. If she weren’t, she wouldn’t have hollered ‘discrimination’ when she was rejected.
If she really wants the be a Marine, she has the option of getting rid of the tat, which is only there to get attention, wouldn’t she?
Do any of you REALLY want your DI looking at your neck and saying ‘What the fucking fuck is that? Some kind of skin disease? Was that your initiation into the WHATEVER? Or are you just as dumb as you look? What’s tattooed on your ass, asswipe?’
AT best, I might say that her recruiter told her it was because of the tatt and didn’t tell her she’s too batshit crazy for the Marines, if we were to give her the benefit of the doubt.
But, while recruiters can make some miracles happen, if MEPS says “NOGO” than you’re a NOGO. What were her ASVAB scores? What was her physical determination? How about mental? Police record disqualifiers?
There is a lot to being accepted. If it were just a tattoo, she wouldn’t make it past the recruiter’s desk.
“too batshit crazy for the Marines”….well, her last name IS PiMENTAL…
Too batshit crazy for the Marines???
That is seriously nuts.
Standard Marine infantry platoon is like the illustrated guide to the DSM.
True, MSG, but her whine is that it was the tattoo that disqualified her, and that it was discriminatory. Since we don’t have the other info, we don’t know if that figured into it. She is, after all, the one who made a ‘thing’ out of the tatt, and didn’t mention any other disqualifiers.
The problem is that MEPS can’t just come out and defend why she was disqualified because of HIPAA laws.
Like I said, Pingree is a huge mouth breathing leftist SJW who speaks when she should listen.
Think Pat Schroeder, but not as bright.
Another interesting find courtesy of the Internet (besides finding the news story about Kate Pimental’s irresponsible behavior in 2013 causing a car accident):
In this 2010 Leatherneck Forum (and no, I am NOT the same Ask A Marine in this forum), a young person wrote that they were disqualified for having a tattoo on their collarbone…and the V-Neck T-Shirt is mentioned as well:
http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?95464-Disqualified-For-My-Tattoo
Interesting reading. What is amusing and something I did not know is that someone on the Forum pointed out to the young person that Smedley Butler had the Marine Corps Emblem tattooed on his chest…and that the tattoo covered his entire chest.
🙂
Where’s Paul Harvey when ya need him?!?
Still dead.
Shit. Paul Harvey is dead? Shit. I guess that explains it.
We need to get ahold of Paul Junior.
He’s still above ground.
Death…that’s no excuse.
You mean this Paul Harvey?
http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=50534
Too bad we never got the rest of that story.
Nothing a pearl necklace couldnt cover,,,
She has a point.
She should win.
The only problem is that the Marine Corps Uniform Regulation or other policies does not prohibit tattoos on the collarbone. Additionally, wearing the V Neck T Shirt is optional for men and women. As stated before, there could be more to this story than we know, i.e. she may have been disqualified for other reasons (Her car accident? Past behavior? Not meeting physical or IQ/mental standards?)
Yes, it is likely she was disqualified for other reasons.
But if it was this reason she has a legitimate case.
Am speculating the truth will come out. Again, something just does not seem right about her issue. Also surprise Pingree’s Staff/Office may not have done a thorough research of Marine Corps policy or better yet, coordinate with DoD or the CMC on this or the Recruiting Office or MEPS. Went to Pimental’s Facebook page…she really enjoys showing selfies of herself. Alot if selfies. Got the impression she is a “Look at me” type, wanting attention. Just my own personal observation.
I think you’re right about her character as portrayed in her FB page. I see some serious non-compatability issues with the Marine Corps. She already has a sense of entitlement. Imagine how many leadership challenges she’d be for a young platoon commander or platoon sergeant.
Animal, AMEN. And IF she really wants to be a Marine (note her comments in her Facebook page about “Teamwork”), then she needs to get off her high horse, get that Tattoo REMOVED and then go back to the Recruitors and say “I’m ready to be a TEAM-PLAYER”. Course, again, they might not accept her because of another reason which might be the real reason in the first place. What a Prima Donna. She would not last a week in training with that arrognant attitude. PiMENTAL, your 15 minutes of Fame is up! Go back to taking selfies of yourself, PiMENTAL…and while you’re at it, PiMENTAL, BUCKLE UP, QUIT SPEEDING,GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND READ THE REGULATION ON THE MARINE CORPS UNIFORM !!!
The other issue is loyalty. If she really wants to be a part of the Marine Corps, she shouldn’t have been in such a hurry to drag this into the public eye and make it an issue and give ammunition to the SJW’s. I think that was more important to her than being a Marine.
Like, Like, LIKE!!!!
We have congressmen and senators presenting awards and decorations to military phonies without doing any vetting, why should this be different? They have to keep those voters happy.
“disqualified for other reasons”
Yeah, like both PiMENTAL and PinAGREE being dumber than that three foot stump that PiMENTAL ran into in the middle of winter by speeding on a two inch thick ice packed road in the middle of winter.
Any Recruiter these days will honestly tell you that only 20 or 30% of the potential Recruits they get these days will end up being qualified to serve. I’m betting she got DQ’ed for something else as well and she’s having a “HEY, everyone look at me!!!” attention stunt.
In simple terms, look at the Marines as a business. There are qualifications and criteria that are required to get hired by that business. If you don’t meet the criteria then you don’t meet the criteria.
Don’t make the company change 240 years of qualifications because you think you are special.
Would not surprise me if a few other old timers like myself would have a different point of view if we were 20 years old again and just joining the Corps! Especially if there were young women in view of us while in Boot Camp! Nice long blonde hair, a big rack to begin with,,,,and a tattoo that read, “Raging Nympho”. Then again, my four years would never have seen a GCM. Personally, as I have aged, my view of an attractive woman does not include anything with carnival colors to stand out in a crowd. As for a younger dude now, I look at that as his own business, and presume one which he may live to regret as he gets older. The only REAL issue of importance to me would be, “Can she take the heat and carry her own weight when needed?” If she can demonstrate the same willingness to lay down her life and face potential death head on with a “Determined To Win At All Costs” attitude, then I’d be willing to give her a chance to prove herself……tattoo or not. Were she to fold and become a liability rather than a team member who could be counted on as required; she’d have to GO at the first opportunity. A tattoo does not make a combat warrior, so what else is new? Conversely, the absence of a tattoo in this day and age does not imply one way or another whether warrior status fits the DNA of all Marines serving. In RVN, tank crews always made a hooch immediately near the tank when we sere going to be remaining in a defensive position for a while. Four to a gun tank, only three to a flame tank. in what were always tight quarters, a female in the crowd might have well changed the dynamics of the crew. At my age, I’ll never know or care. For the time being I’ll just fantasize about elevating the main gun while lowering the breech to make for a comfortable spot a small trim posterior could perch on while… Read more »
Has anyone checked out her Facebook account listed under Kate Francosian PiMental? Her profile page shows in my eyes and I may be mistaken, our Country’s flag hanging upside down. If it is doing that and her picture is below it, do you think she is sending out a “DISTRESS”call…or once again, using the flag to get attention to herself.
Kate PiMENTAL reminds me of Al Leal. Both are attention seekers. Personality Disorder called Narcissism. And out of curiousity, is PiMENTAL a legal residence of Maine or New Hampshire?