20-year retirement is gone

| November 27, 2015

Hondo sends us a link to the Army Times which reports that the new budget deal that the President signed the other day included an end to the 20-year retirement plan that most of us enlisted for so long ago. It looks like that when folks enlist after 2018, they will not get the deal.

Starting in 2018, newly enlisted troops will no longer have the traditional 20-year, all-or-nothing retirement plan. Under the changes, it will be replaced with a blended pension and investment system, featuring automatic contributions to troops’ Thrift Savings Plans and an opportunity for government matches to personal contributions.

The new system is expected to give roughly four in five service members some sort of retirement benefit when they leave the military, as opposed to the current system which benefits only one in five.

Yeah, four-in-five will get a retirement benefit if they contribute to the Thrift Savings Plan (401k-like pre-tax savings), the same TSP that they have access to now, without an employer match. The upside for the Obama Administration is that people will scurry to enlist before 2018 in order to get a shot at the old plan, but the next President will have to deal with lower enlistment when service is less attractive. I warned back in 2008 that Obama would eventually get around to dismantling the military and it only took him seven years to do it.

The good news in the defense bill is that Obama doesn’t get the funds to close Guantanamo and flag officers don’t get the whopping 1.3% pay raise that the troops get – a huge savings, I suppose. Obama signed this bill as opposed to the one he vetoed earlier this year because Congress promised to bust spending caps on non-defense spending. So, yay, everyone wins, right?

Category: Barack Obama/Joe Biden, Congress sucks

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10thMountainMan

Please tell me this is from duffelblog.

wilnel

yes but this can be *fixed* the repugnicans could add it back in and the next president would sign it

Silentium Est Aureum

How clever a name you use! Did you get that one from Kos or DU?

streetsweeper

Musta found it on one of their outhouse walls…

Ex-PH2

Isn’t that pronounced ‘will kneel’?

wilnel

wtf would I be a Kos or DU poster? you know damn well the republicans will promise to fix it, I am highly suspect that they ever will. they only feign opposition to the demonrats

streetsweeper

Well, you do have a point there…

Fastjack

Aw, fuck me, a Nihilist. Look, say what you will about the tenets of Liberal Democracy, but at least it’s an ethos.

kafir

Yeah, cuz “Republicans” like John McCain are so anxious to help vets. When he’s not busy running guns to ISIS

L. Taylor

A week or so ago this board was complaining that Obama had threatened to Veto this bill. Claiming Obama was trying to kill the A-10. Now that he signed the bill you are complaining he killed the old retirement system.

I am pissed he signed it, but he is not to blame for this plan. He is only to blame for not opposing it.

This is not a democrat plan, it was not an executive order, it is not even consistent with liberal values, so how is this something that is pinned on Obama?

Both house of congress are republican controlled. The pentagon is overwhelmingly staffed by political conservatives. This is essentially a republican defense bill.

The roots of the new army retirement plan are republican sponsored thinks tanks.

The entire shift from pensions to contribution plans was republican led in this country. It is part of the larger privatization movement. It is also politically linked to the private sector movement to rollback policies unions pushed for when union membership and political influence was at its highest.

While many democrats opposed this bill in its original form, and the president vetoed it in October, the fact that it passed an was signed means that is is our government to blame. Both sides of the aisle. While the few that did oppose it were democrats, this bill had overwhelming bipartisan support.

I am pissed that the president signed it, I am also pissed that the new pension plan was only opposed for a few months back in the beginning of the summer.

If you check the domains of all the blogs and “media” sources that were propagandizing in support of this new retirement plan; you will realize that they are overwhelmingly staunchly aligned to the right.

This is a right wing plan.

O-4E

Jumping on the bandwagon with Lars here. They polled, several times, members of the military about the type of retirement system they would like to see.

I got several of those surveys and completed them.

So they didn’t make this decision in a vacuum. The results of the surveys clearly indicated this is the type of system the “troops” would like to see.

It’s a generational shift. The younger folks today would like to be vested at some point way before 20 years.

Pat

Concur, but think it’s a bipartisan screwup.

While anecdotal, I think this will eventually decimate the mid-career NCO corps. Many of us would have bailed at 8-12 years to pursue other careers but at around 10 it was more attractive to stick around until 20. Case in point are the good troops who chose the money at 15 -20 years during the Clinton era drawdown.

AW1Ed

“Case in point are the good troops who chose the money at 15 -20 years during the Clinton era drawdown.”

I took the TERA at the 17 year mark after about 20 seconds of consideration. One of my better life choices.

Silentium Est Aureum

Unless you’re in a critical MOS/rating, in which case you’re SOL, just like back under Clinton.

Brendan Kelly

“Many of us would have bailed at 8-12 years to pursue other careers but at around 10 it was more attractive to stick around until 20. ”

More attractive for you, but does the Army really need people who are “Retired On Duty” for 5 or 8 years?

Dalton coldiron

I medretied with a few years ion. Not my fault I got injured

Hondo

Where’s the retirement DD214, bunni-boi? Did you send Jonn a copy yet?

wilnel

when are you going to stop this, none of us believe you …a 214 is too easy to post up

Luddite4change

It’s the type of retirement system that the 80% who won’t do a full career would like to see.

In essence those polls were not dissimilar to polls were the public wants to tax the other guy.

I have concerns about the new system, which in my estimation drops the cost of exit for mid term NCOs and Officers.

My fear is that in 14 years we will have to revisit the issue again when the effects on 10 year retention are known.

I’m actually surprised you didn’t bring up the other bonus in the bill which is the sale of .45s through the civilian marksmanship program. Obama selling guns, who would have thought.

L. Taylor

Overall though, this retirement plan provides far fewer benefits on average than the pension plan did. It is cost saving on the backs of military.

And it also but service members at a huge risk of losing a great deal if there is a market collapse during their time in service, especially if it occurs in the last half of their time in service.

This is a bad idea and is premised under the false assumption that markets always rise. Which they do not.

Finally, the US stock market has so many unjust institutional means for retirement accounts to be pilfered to the tune of billions per year. High frequency trading firms are stealing billions for their client firms every single year through price manipulation.

A Proud Infidel®™

Let’s also not forget that B. Hussein 0bama & Company also stole the Tricare budget surplus and handed it to some outfit to build another farm of bird-killers *OOPS*, windmills. I’m certain that those damn things have already killed more birds than DDT and the difference is that those things kill them instantly while DDT nearly eradicated malaria.

fibmcgee1

Not many people are aware of this.
Rachel Carson, IMHO, is one of the major mass killers of the 20’th century.
Now the anti-ddt’ers want donations for millions of nettings to prevent malaria in Africa

Luddite4Change

Concur. Even for full career folks, you can adjust the financial modeling assumptions so that the new one looks better than the old. I’ve actually taken my career and run it through the new system. The answer was that I should have exited at 12 years.

There is at least one good benefit, which is that your full TSP/Match transfers to your beneficiaries if you die relatively soon after retirement (they still get the SBP also if you sign up).

Ex-PH2

The worst thing you can do is put your retirement savings into a trading company, unless it is a self-directed account like one of the firms that let you manage your account online.

Even Savings & Loans, credit unions and standard banks have better offers for rollover IRAs and Roth IRAs.

If Yellen (at the FRB) decides to raise the base rate even a 1/2%, you will see inflation in many areas, including loans, but likely not in interest payments.

L. Taylor

The trading firm are pilfering from the index funds that most 401K money is in.

Ex-PH2

Oh, dear. The carp done poked the bear.

Now we’re in for it!

Ex-PH2

O.M.G. I said ‘SELF-DIRECTED’. Try reading for comprehension, will you?

There are quite a few companies that let their clients make transactions directly online, and NOT ALL BROKERS point their clients in the direction of index funds. They know better. They will lose clients that way. Any good broker will find out what the client wants first and foremost, e.g., income and growth which index funds do not offer. And not everyone is as dense as your are about these things.

Don’t start another line of your bullshit and utter ignorance. You are WAY out of your depth here.

DON’T HIJACK THIS THREAD.

Hondo

Taylor the Infallible need not “read for comprehension”. After all, he is infallible – no?

Um, no.

Hondo

My fear is that in 14 years we will have to revisit the issue again when the effects on 10 year retention are known.

Yep. Kinda like we did with the Redux system – which we did some 10-15 years after it was instituted, too.

AW1Ed

The survey I saw was so obviously slanted that this outcome was preordained.

Brendan Kelly

O4E is right. I have long thought that this would be a great idea. Not a lot of people are lifers and get the 20. Someone who did 5, 10, or 15 should be able to get something.

Hondo

Actually, they can today. It’s called the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) and an IRA.

And, frankly – the only people that leave the military prior to retirement for whom I have any sympathy because they “left with nothing” are those forced out early, not for cause, who were also ineligible to continue service in a Reserve component. Everyone who signed up “knew the deal” (or should have known the deal) when they signed on the dotted line. If they elected to leave voluntarily short of active duty retirement and also opted not to continue serving as a reservist (which would have preserved the value of their prior military service), that was a free choice. In doing that, they voluntarily surrendered any future retirement benefits associated with their military service.

Essentially, all this new plan amounts to is trading basic pension for TSP contributions. The basic pension at 20 years is substantially reduced, with the difference to be “replaced” by assumed TSP savings/earnings, plus govt matching funds.

Unfortunately, those TSP assets can’t be touched until age 59 1/2 without huge tax impact (counted as ordinary income) – PLUS big penalties right off the top (can’t remember if you forfeit 10% or 25% on early withdrawals). Last time I checked, the average guy/gal who retires from the military isn’t usually anywhere close to age 59 1/2; ditto for someone getting out prior to retirement. So there’s maybe a bit of a problem in the short term.

The Federal government did something very similar to this for Federal civilian employees 30+ years ago. If you want the skinny on how well this serves the interests of military members who stay for retirement, talk to a Federal employee who’s in their late 40s or 50s and might be old enough to remember talk about the previous Federal retirement system.

Virtually all of them who will retire as anything above a career GS-5 clerk wish like hell they were under the older system that closed in 1983. That should tell you something.

Jarhead

Mr. Lars….a number of times you refer to being “pissed”. Were you pissed ON or pissed OFF? There IS a difference don’t you know?

Hondo

I’m beginning to think he may enjoy the former, Jarhead – since that’s pretty much what he gets whenever he comes here and spouts unsupported, half-baked bullsh!t as Gospel.

Ex-PH2

Hey, Look! The carp wandered in.

Actually, it was THIS article posted OVER A MONTH AGO, and the complaints were valid.

http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=62417

Want some corn, carp?

There’s no raise in VADC or Social Security for 2016, which means that people who face rising living costs such as increases in food prices and prescription drug prices are going to have a difficult time, especially since this applies to both civilian and ex-military populations.

So what Liz Warner (bless her heart) has done, with 11 other people, is sponsor a bill providing a single payment in 2016 for both SocSec and VADC recipients, to offset the loss of COLA. Now, I know it’s about getting votes, but her -intention- is at least in the right place, so I’m good with it, mercenary little thing that I am. Make sure you tell your congress critters to vote in favor of this bill.

It’s better than nothing at all.

L. Taylor

That is not what I was referring to. It was a week or so ago concerning Obama threatening another veto.

L. Taylor

http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=62851

It was the trailing comments at the end. I guess I remembered it as a more substantive blog post because I commented on it and it received some follow up responses.

David

son, you almost always get responses… most of them negative. Yet you keep threatening to leave… and coming back, and coming back. You’re not just here for the hunting, are you?

Thunderstixx

I keep waiting for him to take his vaunted ball and go home…
We dally more so with baited breath as we endure each utterance from the mind of such a pueril being…
Yet, continue he will as we are forced to wait until the ghosts of Chamberlain himself present themselves to fill our pages with more of the sort of prate of assuagement that is so well known and understood by the good and valiant men and women of our esteemed pages.
I must admit it quite lugubrious to witness such a pathetic display of confusion by a human being of such an age as he professes.
I envision the parallels he presents with this fine quote from Aleck Bourne, a true believer in articles of law and humanity and the worth of an individual at all stages of life. “It is possible to store the mind with a million facts and still be entirely uneducated.”
Truer words have seldom been spoken
How sad that he be such a prime yet good bad example of such a sorry state of sense…

Ex-PH2

Stixx, he’s just a lazy fuck who wants people to do everything for him, including sit on his face and worship his footprints in the yellow snow.

The Other Whitey

Still waiting for your answer, Lars. It’s been two days. Don’t act like you don’t know what I’m talking about.

L. Taylor

I don’t. I rarely read you posts anymore.

The Other Whitey

Nice try. You know exactly what I’m talking about. Apparently you’re too much of a coward to answer a simple question posted on an Internet forum. Says a lot about you.

L. Taylor

I don’t know what you are talking about, I don’t even know what thread you are referring to, and I am not going to go search and read your fuckwit troll posts to find out.

A Proud Infidel

Babble, babble, babble. I see that you’re back to posting on your Mommy’s computer while she’s at work!

The Other Whitey

So I’m a fuckwit troll now? I’m one of the folks who has acknowledged and credited you on the rare occasion that you’ve made a good point, the Russia/Turkey shootdown thread being the most recent example. I have only declared you wrong when you were wrong. When you’ve been right, or at least close to it, I’ve said so. It’s obvious that you can’t stand it when somebody (not just me, pretty much anybody) proves you wrong, which is immature, but again, I’ve acknowledged the times when you’ve been right. I also don’t use variations of “You’re a fucking retard” as my default answer to your frequently-arrogant and confrontational posts. I’ve called you an asshole, true, but only when you’re being an asshole. When you’ve refrained from being an asshole, I’ve refrained from calling you one. And that apparently makes me a “fuckwit troll.”

Well, in that case, thank you for proving my point.

Lars the Pimply Hipster

*WAAAAHHH!*, STOP stating facts!! That’s racist, my professors said so!! Where’s my blankie and safe space? I WANT some Kool-Aid too!!!

L. Taylor

I didn’t read the previous posts to which you seem so outraged.

When you demand I respond to a post and accuse me of being a coward for not doing so, you are being a troll.

I do not read every response provided to me, nor am I required to respond to them all. In the past I read most and responded to most I read, but generally the responses to my posts are a sludge wave of mindless herd criticisms and ridicule. So I no longer see the point in responding most of the time, I am reading fewer, and from some posters I see little point in even reading them at all.

I suspect it may have been the post on the “Crusader” issue.Because I ignored most of those posts. While I participated briefly early on, I ignored that thread for the rest of the day. I see no point in debating the issue. The separation of church and state is a vital and non-negotiable cornerstone of my system of beliefs. A military unit is a government element. The motto and mascot needs to be in accordance with military values. Our military is a secular organization of hundreds of religious denominations and beliefs. “Crusaders” refers to only one faith, and the context of that reference is one of war against other faiths, particularly Islam.

The term “Crusaders” in reference to a US army unit is not in accordance with Army values or the values of our nation, or even the values of a free democratic society.

However, I take back the “fuckwit” comment. I am sorry.

The Other Whitey

Yeah, okay, asshole. I ask you a question about your belligerence, and you call me a fuckwit troll. So fuck you.

I’ve noticed that you love to wave your Berkeley student status around like it makes you smarter than everyone else. It’s certainly possible to get a good education there, but it’s not even the top rated school in California. Berkeley has a rather dubious reputation among other UCs and CSUs for being a bit too much of an echo chamber, and your rather shoddy debating skills haven’t exactly cast the most favorable light on your beloved university. But hey, I just went to a lowly CSU, so what do I know?

Despite your claims, TAH entertains lots of contrary viewpoints, including some liberal and/or atheist ones. They don’t draw the kind of ire that you generally attract. Why do you suppose that is? Hint: the question you refused to answer addressed this.

I see no reason to try to be civil with you, or give you due credit, or acknowledge your rare good idea anymore. You’re a self-righteous asshole who thinks he’s better than everyone else. You don’t care about discourse or discussion, you’re just an attention whore seeking to reinforce your pathetic insecure self-image by pissing off people you don’t like. And you don’t like us because we don’t agree with you and don’t mistake your bullshit for genius. You didn’t find an echo chamber here, therefore we’re all bigots, fanatics, hicks, and idiots, at least according to you. And somewhere underneath all your smug bullshit, you know that’s true. So you can get fucked.

You can feel free to prove me wrong here, by accepting opposing viewpoints without insulting their proponents, recognizing that you don’t have all the answers, recognizing that disagreeing with you does not make somebody stupid, ignorant or racist, and generally not being an assdouche. But let’s be realistic: what are the odds of that happening?

Perry Gaskill

Dunno, TOW. Sometimes you give somebody a ticket on the clue train, and he’ll still manage to lose it on the way to the station every time.

It’s also been my own casual observation that if you’re in a roomful of reasonably intelligent people, the guy claiming most loudly to be the smartest guy in the room is almost never the one who is actually the smartest guy in the room.

L. Taylor

90+% of the time I am not the one who brings up Berkeley. Other posters are the ones that do.

I defend my university because their is an idiotic and uninformed assumption by the anti-intellectuals on the right that it is not a good institution.

The Other Whitey

And 99% of the time you’re an insufferable cocksucker, Lars. You can prove me right or wrong. My money’s on the former.

L. Taylor

i stand corrected, you are a fuckwit troll.

The Other Whitey

No, Lars. I’m just tired of your self-righteous shit, and will no longer make any attempt at civility with you, because assholes like you aren’t worth it. By all means continue proving me right about you with comments like that last one, asshole.

A Proud Infidel®™

Hey Larsie-pinky, did you enjoy Thanksgiving or did you pout in a corner muttering “racist genocidal celebration” or some other pansy liberal chickenshit like that?

Lars' Flaming Mangina

Leave me alone… I’m trying to finish the leftover tofurky and organic bean sprouts while watching “The Crying Game” in my plaid onsie!!!

Green Thumb

How is the Thanksgiving break treating you, Lars,

Did you get some work done on that thesis?

That IRB is a bitch, huh?

Arby

My 20 year retirement is what is keeping me afloat right now in this sucky economy. I am currently under employed and earning half of what I was two years ago. The retirement check is what makes up the difference. It helps that I put a lot into savings, but at the moment, nothing is being saved. The 20 year retirement is also what put me at par salary wise with my peers who never served and had 20 years of salary progression.

Now, future retirees will have nothing to to make up for that salary gap. They will have to wait 20+ years before they see a dime. If they do raid their account early, there will be penalties and worse, the money will likely never be put back.

Arby

One more thing. How many of the younger troops are going to contribute at all to their TSP, despite the government match?

Ex-PH2

More important is this: if you have a 401K at work, you can also put money into a Roth IRA up to $5,500/yr if you are under age 50, and $6,500/yr if you’re 50 or over. I think the tax rules on that may have changed, so I won’t go into that part. The point is that if you do have a 401k of any kind, when you leave your job you can roll that over to a regular IRA or move it to your new employer’s plan. I found it simpler to put it in a rollover IRA and also have a Roth IRA. So is this kind of thing going to be allowed for people who decide to put money into this plan? Or are they going to be told they can’t move it to a private plan if they decide to not stay in the military? It sounds good on the surface and it is something that younger people will understand, but if there are restrictions that are not laid out in writing, I wouldn’t put a dime into it, especially since the credit you get depends entirely on whether or not you continue to stay with the military. And that depends on whether or not your quarterly marks are acceptable. In the civilian work world, you get an annual performance review. In the military, it’s quarterly. Office politics are far worse in the military than they are in the civilian work force, so if your LPO or DO says you aren’t AJ Squaredaway for whatever reason, you get canned. Or maybe you are AJ Squaredaway and you just get tired of the constant deployments, crappy workload, unpaid overtime, and all the other things that the military expects of you, so you decide to ditch it and find a civilian job. And that means finding a civilian employer and inquiring about the retirement plans (if any) on your 3rd interview, which is acceptable. So what happens to the cash you invested in that so-called TSP plan? Most plans don’t allow withdrawal without a penalty, which is NOT… Read more »

Cobrakai99

You can roll over the TSP. However you can not roll over any tax free contributions from time deployed.

Ex-PH2

Well, see there’s the ‘hitch’ to it. If you’re deployed constantly for 8 years out of 10 and you’ve put money into that plan faithfully, you can’t take it with you when you get fed up and leave. Right? If I understand you correctly, you can’t have what you put into that plan.

I don’t mean withdraw. I mean transfer to a civilian, NOT USGov, private sector plan.

That’s just wrong.

ChipNASA

The Smart Ones. 😉
When it opened in the early 2000s to the Reserves, I threw as much as I could at it for my last few years in.

OldSarge57

Any 401k or the TSP is a risk. I am truly thankful I have my military retirement because my wonderful 1% if I haven’t lost money in my now IRA wouldn’t last long. If the economy took a huge nose dive you could possibly lose most of what you invest for retirement in the future. Unless the government TSP guarantees uou will never lose the amount you contribute. Figure THOSE odds.

I’ve also believed the military shouldn’t be a career field for everyone. Some are cut out for it and others not so much. There is nothing wrong with the old 2-4-6 enlistments. Set up fo college, learn a trade, etc. But now, I personally feel there are so many accommodations being made you might as well be a GS or welfare recipient. Not all of course, but quite a few. The military has always been a microcosm of society and it may be time to change that in to a more viable military model. I used to be fairly open-minded, but am becoming less so as this all unfolds.

sj

Sort of off topic but somewhat related and perhaps of interest to some of you in the same boat. I did the Survivor Benefit Program (SBP) when I retired. My wife of 30 years was 10 years younger so I should croak first, right? Nah. She passed quite unexpectedly. I naively thought my adult daughter could get some of it. Nah. All goes to the Treasury unless I remarried. Surprise, I did so she’s covered right? Nah. Not until 1 year has passed. It all worked out because several years have passed and I’m now SPB paid up. So there is a happy ending.

Ex-PH2

Like I said, read the fine print. It’s there. People just don’t read it.

I found out at my bank that I need only $25 to start a savings account, which I can do online. I already have an account elsewhere that pays a good rate of interest, but I see no harm in putting money into both places.

Also, if the TSP is backed by US Treasuries, be very wary of it: if the T-bills are given a rate hike by the Fed, okay, but if not, you won’t get a lot of return for your investment.

sj

Yep, re the fine print. That’s why I posted this in case others hadn’t read the fine print like me.

Ex-PH2

I forgot to include credit unions, which are frequently very safe places to put your money, if you have any to spare. They pay a good interest rate on savings, and don’t seem to be subject to the whims of the financial markets. But it’s always smart to investigate first.

Green Thumb

Glad I am out.

As someone said, it will decimate the NCO corps. Not to mention bankrupt young and immature privates and their families who have yet to learn fiscal responsibility.

A Proud Infidel®™

You mean like the ones you always see flat broke three days after payday?

fibmcgee1

And yet the CO still would rag on me to buy savings bonds, to make him look good.

I said FU then, and ate a lot of $^#& because of it.

Do they still do that?

Ex-PH2

There is no more incentive to sign up for more than a few years to get some job experience now, than there was in 1967.

But if things go south in this geopolitical environment – and they may – you might get called back, GT, even if you are retired. Anything is possible.

Mike Kozlowski

…I have a funny feeling that whatever funds are set aside into the troops’ 401ks will be under fairly strict Gummint control…which means that they’ll be counted under Federal funds the same way Social Security is now.

Anybody else see where this is going? There’s no way the Feds will be able to keep their hands off that money, and as soon as somebody thinks of a ‘better’ use for it, then the military will have to suck up smaller payments – if they get any at all.

Mike

Ex-PH2

Ya think? My cynical side says that whatever money is deposited to those accounts will be ‘balanced’ out with social security payments when those come due, even if it’s supposed to be completely separate. Wait and see.

Mike Kozlowski

Ex-PH2,

Don’t give ’em any ideas. I’m waiting for the day when somebody says current retirees need to ‘sacrifice’ for the greater good and you can only get ONE payment a month, equivalent to your SSI.

Mike

A Proud Infidel®™

All while the pols continue to party away on our tax dollars and handing out all they can as fast as they can to illegal aliens and welfare mooches!

Ex-PH2

What I said is not a joke. State employees in this state do get SSI on retirement, but their state pension is reduced by the amount they get from Social Security. I know someone who spent 30 years as a welfare worker. He gave me all the details, including how it impacted his medical/dental care.

Just An Old Dog

They already do some ass-hatterery with VA Pensions and Military retirement. I think if you are under 50% they take away the ammount from your retirement.
When I was 30% disabled I ended up collected a whopping 6 bucks more than I would if I wasnt disabled at all.
I can see the fuckers coming to the point where you will only get one of the three benefits. Military Retirement, VA pension or Social Security.

Jarhead

Old Dog….These days, some who fall into the 100% rating see what you are talking about, suddenly. Even after supposedly retiring and receiving your military pension, the entire 100% is deducted from your regular retirement pension. the only gain is the fact that the 100% is tax free. Sure, that adds up, but not the way it was originally thought to be. Taking ANYTHING from one’s 20 year pension seems to be a bit unreasonable.

D
Jarhead

Thanks D….seems like some missed this boat according to monthly meetings (Group) I attend. Thanks to your help, I am making copies to take to next month’s meeting. Either some people are stretching the truth, or are just uninformed as to what they are receiving. Then again, some just bitch about anything for attention and nobody questions them until the truth is finally revealed. Much obliged.

D

No worries. You’re very welcome. Glad to help a fellow vet.

Ex-PH2

In addition to state employees getting their state pensions cut by the amount of SocSec they receive, the teachers, who are also state employees, do not pay into SocSec unless they have jobs outside the teaching system. Their entire retirement payment goes into the state teachers’ pension fund. They get ONLY that at retirement, unless they worked at jobs outside teaching, to build SSI credits. And since some states are broke, budget-wise, as my state is, I can only imagine what is going on in some households.

UpNorth

The first time that the budget for food stamps, or Sec.8 housing, or refugee assistance, comes up short, the government will be all over those funds that are “set aside” for the troops. The greater need and all that BS.

reddevil

Of course this will decimate the NCO corps- that’s kind of the point. Right now, officers and NCOs with 10 or so years of service wait until they are forced out- if they do it voluntarily they get nothing. With this, they will have an option, and many will take it.

Over the past few years there have been a number of stories about servicemen and women with incredible careers that separated with nothing to show for it because they left before 20- remember ‘The Shooter’?

There are many many young captains, majors, and sergeants that will be shown the door this year with absolutely no payout. I work with a Major with just shy of 18 years that is getting the boot. Now, I’ve seen his ORB and OERs and he is a dirtbag, but someone should have told him years ago before he got to this point…

Here’s what I would like to know: The current pension is really ‘retainer pay’- retirees can still be involuntarily recalled until a certain age unless they are medically unfit for service. Fair’s fair- this should be discontinued along with the pension.

Charles

Well I can see it from the modern view. As an E-6 with over 13 in as active service who was let go from the Navy during the downsizing in 2012-2013 (which they cut too far at it later came out). Having something that I could have roll someplace else after being vested for a few years would be great. I was in the TSP and still leaving it there until I am ready to retire. At the same time, there are plenty of my family who did the 20+ in the Cold War and to Desert Storm and gotten the full deal retirement. Then turned around watching as that retirement has been affected in the last 8 years by the negative COLA increases when compared to the “real” inflation out there in the world. Add in that a few of my family are getting hosed by their follow-on job retirements from city or state governments, of whom some are going just as broke or trying to renegotiate those generous retirement packages that are bleeding the budgets red. So the only thing they have to really depend on is that retirement check from the USG and some extra from the investments they did outside of depending on Uncle Sugar to take care of them.

This is probably the best deal until some pros from a couple of the schools on economic philosophy look at everything. It isn’t great, but at this point the DoD is the only government job that you can still get and be fired from (unless your a civilian) and not collect a pension or lifetime medical/dental for free or low costs.

Ex-PH2

All of the responses to the article are a good reason to work for yourself.

Dalton Coldiron

Can someone please tell me how this affects medical retirees like me?

Hondo

Medical retiree? That’s a laugh.

Where’s that DD214, fefe-forker? Did you send Jonn a copy by postal mail yet?

Green Thumb

You should have sanitized that Phildo (All-Points Logistics certified)before you poked it into your two-hole.

No infection = no drugs = no self-proclaimed PTSD = equals no substandard discharge = no feeling sorry for yourself = no false claims to raise your lack of character and integrity = no problem.

Word to the wise: Stay off the Phildo and you will not catch a case of the “Otchys”.

Shitbag.

Jarhead

Coldiron……a couple of days ago you claimed you were a professional rodeo participant. Have you hurt yourself this week and retired medically already? Is that why you don’t answer the question about your rodeo history? Inquiring minds want to know. Ditto for your D D 214.

Dalton Coldiron

I rodeo to help with my injuries. I medically retired but how does this new thing affect me?

Hondo

Where’s that copy of your DD214 you’ve been promising to send, bunni-boi? Did you mail it to Jonn yet?

If not, the Post Office is open today. So are any number of places with photocopiers.

Put up or shut up, bunni-boi.

Hondo

By the way, bunni-boi: cleaning out the livestock pens and corrals doesn’t count as “rodeo”. That’s just shoveling sh!t.

You appear to do a lot of that.

Hondo

Hmm. If that’s all, that appears to say he’s competed in three events in the last 18 months.

Sounds like a “real pro”. I wonder if any of those events were “open all comers” (who paid the fee) vice restricted to professionals?

Green Thumb

They were.

Right in his mouth.

Ex-PH2

I checked the ACRA FB page and the standings. He isn’t anywhere in the 2015 standings, even as a rookie. I don’t know if the ACRA rodeos are jackpot events, where you pay your entry fee at the gate, or 100% purse-no jackpot, where you post your entry ahead of the date, but that’s an efficient organization. Everything is very up to date. And yes, I did look for 2014 stuff. He may have competed but did not make even 20th place in any of the standings, which are rated by cash won.
I’ve competed in jackpot events, so it’s nice to get a win in the top 4 or 5 spots. You get a ribbon or a belt buckle AND some cash. My ribbons are all faded out to nearly nothing, but I at least have the pictures.
Now, does anyone have any questions?

Ex-PH2

Hi, Jarhead.

The lapinitis freak’s rodeo ‘history’ exists entirely in his head.

He cannot name one event he’s participated in, or even one critter he rode, mostly because he comes under the heading of Dindu Nuffin. I’d guess that he does so little (nothing) that he doesn’t even make day money.

Since there’s nothing going on around Stillwater, where he claims to ‘rodeo’,until Spring, he’s just piling on the used bedding, isn’t he?

The Oklahoma Gay Rodeo Association doesn’t have anything going on until January, and that’s in Arizona.
The regional association doesn’t have anything going on within 50 miles of Stillwater.

It’s all just BS with the bunny sniffer. But since we know people who DO participate down in that area, they’ll be looking for him.

Also, the post offices now have copiers right near the entrances, so there’s no excuse… except that he doesn’t really have a DD214 or anything else.

Dalton Coldiron

What are you talking about I work and don’t have time. I think I will have a day off soon and then I will send John a copy of my long iron which I’m sure he will enjoy.

A) I am freaking Dalton Coldiron
b) I am a rodeo champ
C) you suck
D) I rock

I’ll get him the 214 when I get a moment and quit being jelly of me.

On a serious note how does this bill affect medretirees

Hondo

Yeah, right. I’m thinking “when I get a moment” will be never – because I’m virtually certain you have no retirement DD214, fefe-forker.

Prove us wrong. Send Jonn a copy of your DD214.

By the way: many hotels/motels have envelopes in the room and sell stamps to guests. And some even have photocopiers. So that “I’m too busy traveling” BS excuse is just that: BS.

Send Jonn a copy of your DD214, or admit you’re a LSoS. Again.

OAE CPO USN Ret

If you spent as much time scanning your 214 as you do running your yap on here, then it’d already be done.

Dalton Coldiron

Find I’ll send John a copy when I am free some of us have jobs. Don’t be jelly I have made a successful transition.

I also never claimed to be an Army Ranger. The tattoo on my arm is of the Texas Rangers the baseball team.

C2Show

I also never claimed to be an Army Ranger. The tattoo on my arm is of the Texas Rangers the baseball team.

LOL

OAE CPO USN Ret

“I also never claimed to be an Army Ranger. The tattoo on my arm is of the Texas Rangers the baseball team.”

I’m not an Army guy but that tattoo on your arm sure looks like a close approximation of a Ranger Tab, especially with it posted right over the rest of the Army themed tat. Care to ‘splain that?

http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=36932

Hondo

Yeah, right.

You’re never going to send Jonn a copy of your retirement DD214, bunni-boi. You can’t send what you don’t have.

You can prove me wrong, though. Mail Jonn a copy and we’ll see.

Dalton Coldiron

I’ll send just a copy
of my long iron and no it ain’t a a golf club. Listen some of us have jobs Hondo not all of us can sit around all day like you and spank it.

I work for a living like a real man unlike you. Why don’t you grow a pair and get a job.

As for my rodeo career all the rodeos I am in are very low key you have never heard of them. They don’t have websites or phone numbers. They are more low key rodeos for real Cowboys

Listen little boy Hondo I am a man of my word. I never lied about being an army ranger. My tattoo is of Josh Hamlton aka a Texas ranger baseball player with a bat in his mouth numb nutts.

Calling me a bunni f*cker is juvenile and immature. It shows your intelligence or lack there of young man. You should
Learn some respect.

Green Thumb

Go play in traffic.

Or better yet, just go away.

No one will miss you.

Count on it.

Green Thumb

Well, except maybe Phildo.

Hondo

I give respect to those who deserve it, bunni-boi. Not to LSoS.

As for not having a job – fella, I’ll go out on a limb here and say income far exceeds yours. And has every year you’ve ever worked in your life.

Now, how about you go spend some “quality time, one-on-one” with “fefe”. He/she is probably the closest thing to tail you’ll ever sniff.

Hondo

Oh, and fefe-forker? That claim about your tattoo is, well, a freaking baldfaced lie – and a lame one at that. Your tat in the picture at the article OAE CPO USN Ret linked above is of a skull – wearing an Army beret – with two crossed weapons and the word “Army” below it and a Ranger Tab above it. Josh Hamilton it ain’t.

In fact, let’s take a look – here’s a full-resolution copy of the photo from the original article about you here at TAH showing your tattoo. The tattoo is quite clear.

If you’re gonna lie, oh naive little snot-nosed child, you should make your story plausible. Otherwise you’re merely embarrassing yourself while simultaneously wasting everyone else’s time.

Now go home and get your f**king shine box, bunni-boi.

Ex-PH2

Hondo! My eyes! My eyes!

You could have cropped that at his ear, you know! Geezo Pete!!

Hondo

Didn’t want to be accused of modifying the photo, Ex-PH2. So I didn’t modify a damn thing. Rather, I just displayed it here for all to see – thus proving that bunni-boi here is nothing but a lying sack of Scheiße.

A Proud Infidel®™

HEY BUNNY-FART, GO FUCK YOURSELF sideways with triple strand concertina wire wrapped in asbestos, o candyassed creampuff of a POSER!!

Hondo

“Texas Rangers” tattoo my azz.

http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/77/Texas_Rangers/

Not even close, fefe-forker. Looks like yet another lie.

OAE CPO USN Ret

It doesn’t look like a Ford Ranger logo either.

Nor the law enforcement type Texas Rangers.

Definitely not the USS Ranger.

Or this one: Ranger Boats (bass boat company).

HMCS (FMF) ret.

Dude, you must have brown eyes, because you’re full of shit, Bunni Fluffer…

Dalton Coldiron

Shut up navy fag go suck at fat one. Not gonna take that from some POG.

Hondo

Where’s the DD214, bunni-boi?

Did you go home and get your shine box yet?

A Proud Infidel®™

HEY BUNNY-FART COLDIRON, GFY sideways with three tons of broken glass and asbestos until YOU SHOW PROOF of what you say o bunny sphincter-gazer!!

OAE CPO USN Ret

You’ll want to look up what the FMF designator stands for before you go any farther.

Hondo

OAE CPO USN Ret: bunni-boi here is too clueless to realize that the picture of his tat is clear enough to prove him a damn liar. What makes you think he’s smart enough to figure out what the FMF designator means – or to figure out how to Google it?

OAE CPO USN Ret

Good point.

Hey bunny buddy. Do you need lessons on how to use Google? Well, then go to Google and look it up.

Another question for you. Do you know how to keep an idiot in suspense? I’ll tell you later.

Airdale USN

No he don’t want to do that Chief!!!

Ex-PH2

Troutsniffer, you get more and more idiotic every time you post a comment.

You should know better than to piss off a Corpsman. He’s the combat medic your life may depend on some day.

HMCS (FMF) is an E8 Medic.

You are NOTHING.

HMCS (FMF) ret.

EX, he’s a bunni felcher and a rump rider at the local gay bar

HMCS (FMF) ret.

Still felching your little bunny, rump rider??? No 214… lies about the tat on the arm… bet your pathetic little life is just one continuous lie, isn’t it Butt Boy?

As long as you post here, people like me will keep on generating the GOOGLE hits for your name for all the world to see, Dumbfuck…

Joe Williams

A rodeo of what event ? Where did you win your self proclaimed title and when(you know month year)? I am still waiting for you to tell me the dates for the rodeos you will be entering. Do not forget to name the which rodeo it is. Joe

Eric

The TSP is a great plan. If you are not a federal employee you know nothing about it. The old plan was a cliff. Do you know how many times an E8 with 19.5 y gets discharged due to whatever reason and gets nothing? Funny how the same people who cry loudest about welfare don’t see anything wrong with a vet with essentially nothing wrong with him/her getting 100% SC for life because someone was mean to him during basic. Or even serious stuff happening, combat related etc. If someone can work they should and it should apply to veterans as well as to non-vets. Double standard hard at work on this page.

Hondo

Eric, the only way someone with 18+ years of active duty service gets discharged prior to retirement is either by voluntary departure or for cause (e.g., court-martial or administrative discharge for cause). Federal law provides for at thing called “sanctuary” starting at 18 years of active duty service. In essence, it means that once you reach 18 years of active duty service you cannot be involuntarily released from active duty prior to becoming retirement eligible except for cause.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/1176

There are separate provisions in Federal law for officer personnel that essentially say the same thing.

I have no problem with someone who gets discharged for cause (e.g., court-martial or administrative separation in lieu of court-martial) walking with nothing.

Green Thumb

Knew a dude that happened too.

He was a former 1SG that liked laying pipe in the FRG when Joe was in the field.

Took his diamond and retired him.

A Proud Infidel®™

If he was “Playing Jodie” then I say “FA’QHEEM!!” and his career!!

Hondo

Apparently, he was – and Big Army did. Hopefully via court-martial.

Ex-PH2

Here’s how this will work. Someone will sign up for work experience in some field, like computer geek. The recruiter won’t explain the TSP because all he wants in a body count.
Then there’s boot camp, and maybe the children will get a lecture on the TSP while they’re a captive audience. But if that lecture doesn’t have its proper effect, the children will get another one as soon as they are sent off to school, and if that doesn’t work, then they’ll get another one at their next duty station or post. By that time, they’ll be thinking about whether or not they want to even re-up at all, and whether or not they want to lose money they may need for other things to a program that they can’t control.

With Social Security, you have no choice. It starts the minute you get your first paycheck. But this is a choice, and if there isn’t an aggressive campaign to get people to sign up for it, I would be surprised.

Anonymous

Fuck, I want my country back.

Anonymous

Worst part is, you’ll have both worse pensions and greater cost to the gov’t. (Thanks, Democrats!!)