Chris Hayes is uncomfortable with “heroes”
I have no idea who this idiot is, but, Chris Hayes, on MSNBC announces to the world that he’s uncomfortable with referring to fallen American troops as “heroes” because apparently it is “rhetorically proximate to justification for more war”;
So, basically, Hayes has thrown away the typical Leftist “support the troops and not the wars” meme. Hayes’ support for the troops is entirely dependent on the political aspects of their missions.
Hayes is a guy who produces words for the leftist publication “The Nation”, he’s hosted the Keith Olbermann show when it was on MSNBC as well as the Rachel Maddow show. He was going to replace Olbermann when he was canned until it was discovered that he also gave political contributions to the Obama campaign. His wife is a counsel to the Obama Administration.
If Hayes can’t judge the troops’ individual heroism under adverse conditions, why is he even on television? Obviously, he has nothing to contribute to the discussion of Memorial Day since he lets his politics interfere with a rational discussion.
The entire transcript of his remarks are at Newsbusters.
Thanks to ROS and Hellboy for the links.
Category: Media, Support the troops
These “reporters” and “journalists” are but a pimple on the arse of Joe Galloway, a journalist who got it.
We do overuse the word Hero, and we have gotten far too comfortable overusing it….just not for the same reasons Hayes would presume.
Great minds think alike, Jonn. You beat me to posting an article about this by about 1 min. (smile). I killed my article and will add my 2 cents worth here instead.
You’re a fool, Chrissy-Poo. And you’re indeed wrong about this.
Soldiers don’t choose the wars they fight; they go to war when ordered. It’s called doing your duty – honoring the commitment you made when you signed on the dotted line. Nothing more, and nothing less.
During war, some exhibit incredible valor. Some do things you’d find unbelievable if you read them in a work of fiction.
And some don’t come home.
So no, Chris: it’s never wrong to honor heroism, even if you disagree with the cause. Heroes deserve honor – period. And today, because of fools like you they simply don’t get the recognition they deserve.
“Poor is a nation that has no heroes, but beggared is a nation that has heroes and forgets them.”
Friggin Maddow..I can’t stand it when she’s on AFN. As soon as I realize I’m not watching John Stewart (whenever she starts shrieking) I feel like stabbing my eardrums out with unsharpened pencils.
You have GOT to watch the rebuttal from Newsninja2012, it is epic!! He’s got mad skillz.
Chrissyboy, I’m uncomfortable calling you script readers ‘reporters’ and the non-fact checking hacks ‘journalists’. I guess what I’m saying is I don’t give a big hairy rat’s azz what you think!
That being said, I gotta agree with CI, I think the term is used too much also. My two nephews who served over there were just doing their duty. They both performed their duties to the best of their abilities but did nothing special.
As Uncle J would say…these guys would do well with a steaming hot cup of STFU, already.
Well, I am not comfortable calling you, Chris Hayes, a human being much less an American.
Could you at least allow a tiny bit of gratitude for those who died so that you could spew your confusion publicly? Even if you have no idea what to call them, and those of us who managed to do our duty and return home, we who are still alive will accept your thanks on their behalf.
signed/ no hero, just an American
Feel free to flame away, but I don’t intend this to be flame bait, just an honest question.
Is what Hayes spewed really much different – from an objective standpoint – from those who rather blindly measure their collective sense of patriotism by zealous adulation of all things military? By that I mean, Hayes doesn’t know the first thing about honor and sacrifice in the military sense, and it’s appropriate to call him on it.
But he has counterparts who are inarguably ‘pro-military’, who share the same lack of understanding, but I think they often get a pass, because we believe that they mean well enough. I’ll give Hayes the benefit of the doubt that he was at least probably being honest in expressing his internal conflict between what he thinks he knows and what he thinks he doesn’t.
These are just some thoughts I’m wrestling with as I spend Memorial Day remembering, and seeing the way society treats the day.
CI, I think I understand the question. I do not know anyone personally who has a zealous adulation of all things military, except a couple of boys 9 and 12. But I am willing to accept that there may be some folks out there who have it?
I do know a few folks who honor all of us and respect us all because they understand who we are and the sacrifices made by every member of the military through time. One in particular did not serve only because he was too young for Korea, his age was on the high side of the draft during Viet Nam and he still feels a bit guilty for not volunteering even though he was in a civilian job from which almost no one was drafted. (There are more ways to serve one’s country than to be in the military.)
We all served so that everyone has the freedom to express themselves whether we agree with them or not. That includes my right to laugh at those who are foolish, and to call BS when folks express confusion about things they should have learned in elementary school.
Bob Davis post on Twitter:
Please are you that petty MSNBC? They gave their lives so you could sit and talk, what would you call them?
May 28, 8:56 AM via web
I appreciate your perspective OWB and thank you for those thoughts. I should caveat my post by saying that I have met many, many people who are the flag waving-est, chest thumping-est, red blooded patriots you’ll ever meet, in their estimation….but haven’t the foggiest clue about the machinations that send us to battle nor the sense of sacrifice and Brotherhood that binds us together, those of us who serve.
There are indeed things that should be learned in elementary school, irrespective of individual and party politics, but sadly are not.
CI-given my druthers, I’ll take the “blindly patriotic” bunch every time. At the very least they do not have an element among them (so far as I can tell) which seems to be actively trying to undermine my efforts or those of our country at every opportunity.
He should rhetorically proximate himself to a yacht off the HOA. Once the military rescues this dipshit I imagine he’ll be singing a different tune.
These sanctimonious types are just so precious. The most difficult decision they’ve ever had to make was fries versus onion rings at Burger King.
Tweet of the Day
Ann Coulter
@AnnCoulter Chris Hayes ‘Uncomfortable’ Calling Fallen Military ‘Heroes’ – Marines respond by protecting his right to menstruate.
It doesn’t matter whether people follow them with “blind patriotism”. It doesn’t matter whether or not people “understand”. I take tremendous offense at both Hayes and you, CI and YY, for implying that simply doing your duty is not a heroic trait. And I’m tired of hearing the “machinations behind the machine” meme. THEY SIGNED THE FUCKING DOTTED LINE KNOWING WHAT THEY WERE OFFERING THEIR LIVES, AND SOME PAID IT.
Feel free to kiss my fucking ass if you think otherwise.
@ 16 – I’m ever so sorry that your your unkissed “fucking ass” is offended that I don’t consider my duty as heroic.
Feel free to liberally use the term hero to your hearts content.
You’re liberty to be offended is duly noted.
*Your
*Quite correct, thank you.
Considering the fact that you ARE sitting here offending me, you are obviously not a “fallen hero”. That said, the extremely unbalanced percentage of those willing to sacrifice compared to those who are not puts them far above the rest characterwise.
And I never said my ass was unkissed, only that you should feel free to add to it.
Of course none of us here are ‘fallen hero’s, but most of us here have simply done our duty. And if we had fallen in the course of merely doing our duty, my contention is that it would likewise not have made us hero’s. As I had stated on a previous and related topic, if a guy sleeping in his chu is struck and killed by indirect fire, and he is labeled a hero…..what do you call someone who willingly and consciously commits an act of unmitigated valor? You’ve already used the term hero, and the two acts are not equal.
This does nothing to take away the sacrifices and service of fallen Brothers, but carry on being offended.
“You’ve already used the term hero, and the two acts are not equal.”
I’m not sure that I agree with that CI. I know guys who were killed when they hit an IED while going out to investigate the POO of a rocket attack, a guy who died from inhaling the superheated gasses from an IED that went off directly underneath him, another guy who had a heart attack on patrol and died and another who was killed in a vehicle rollover. All of those guys were out in Indian country ready and willing to do battle with the baddies (even if maybe it could be said that they did not “willingly and consciously commit an act of unmitigated valor”, whatever that is). What can I call that except “heroic”?
@22 – Your point is valid; hero is going to mean different things to different people. I think the two examples in my post are valid as not being equal, but the lines do blur in yours.
I also have no doubt that I’m more cynical than the average bear, seeing shitbag and malingering Soldiers garner plaudits and adoration as ‘hero’s’….when I know that they aren’t worthy of the uniform much less praise. That is of course, a broad generalization.
As I said before, I have a lot of conflicting emotions on days such as these, with more people focused on sales an barbecues than the real reason. My thoughts may not make sense, but I’m working through them nonetheless.
@ 16, ROS. You must spend a large portion of your time being upset if a person’s opinion offends you. If you served and did your duty honorably, and in your mind that makes you a hero, great! I served and did my duty honorably but I don’t feel that I’m a hero. I will wager the largest percentage of us veterans here feel the same way.
If my personal feeling offends you, too bad. Those of us who served, and the majority of us here did, we gave ourselves, our brothers and sisters in arms and every citizen of the country the right to hold a personal thought, form our own opinion and express that thought or opinion. If you can’t grasp that concept, I truly pity you.
CI-it is an interesting discussion. We (me and the PL) used to talk about it in theater, “if Joe Shitbag gets killed tomorrow, what will we say about him?” I think I came to the conclusion that whatever he might have been up until that point, he had paid as high a price as there was to be paid in the service of his country and if people wanted to say he was a hero, I wouldn’t make an issue out of it.
I didn’t like those soldiers and they made my life harder, but they all deployed and put themselves in harms way. OTOH we had a few who pulled some bullshit at the MOB site and never made it to theater. “Shitbag” doesn’t even begin to describe what I think of them.
It is exactly because I grasp that concept that I am offended, Yat Yas. I assure you, your pity is not warranted, just as I assure you that I am not easily offended and, as such, do not spend a lot of my time being offended. Your condescension has been duly noted.
As for the difference in labeling use of the term “hero”, who’s to say that both are not and can not be? Are there not different levels of heroism? Did not the man asleep in his cho not commit to putting his life in harm’s way, and was not the fact that he was serving under that auspice not entitle him, in giving his life, to our respect and remembrance for doing so? That in itself makes him heroic.
As for myservice, I’ve never worn a uniform. If you would like to further discuss that, we will.
ROS: I guess you’ll have to count me among those who piss you off. I also don’t believe merely doing one’s duty makes one a hero – that’s merely doing one’s duty. IMO, heroism requires more than that.
Then it will also piss you off that I consider your willingness to give all heroic. We’re even. 🙂
No, ROS, that merely embarrasses me. I did my duty, and I like to think I did it well. But I was never called on to do anything heroic.
Thanks for the compliment, though – even if I think it’s grossly undeserved. (smile)
If I may toss my two cents’ worth in here: one of the traits found in true heroes is humility. I have never heard even one of the men on this site call themself a hero, and yet many of them are combat veterans, men that I would not hesitate to hang the label on. Most of them, however, would deny it if I tried, perferring to point to someone else they know as the true hero.
I would have to agree with ROS that the willingness to wear that uniform and accept the idea of giving your all while doing it is heroic. Just because you didn’t die doing your job doesn’t mean you never hit “hero” level.
Douchebag.
And this is why I smile most every time a “journalist” buys it. Maybe Mr. Hayes can volunteer for coverage in Syria. I could use a good chuckle around this time of year. Plus, we’d get news from hell before breakfast.
I find it also funny, because I bet if one of this guy’s buddy’s at MSNBC stepped on a land mine in some third world shithole he’d be falling all over himself to talk about what a “hero” and “truth seeker” or some such crap that guy was.
God I hate reporters.
[…] intersects with Chris Hayes May 28th, 2012 Earlier today, I wrote about Chris Hayes who couldn’t bring himself to call any service members “heroes” because he was […]
Hero status is one of those things you either are or are not. No sorta about it. No part way.
While we all have our personal heroes, the generic of the term most of us think as something you have to earn by doing something.
If I had died in my bunk in theater, there simply would have been nothing heroic about it. Sure, fine, worthy of respect for being willing to give my life for my country, but nothing in comparison with those who died doing something special or those who survived in spite of doing something special.
Like my friend who died a couple of weeks ago who earned a Silver Star for Valor in Viet Nam. He actually made me laugh telling of his exploits as a tunnel rat. He didn’t talk about the excursion that resulted in most of his squad dead and his actions which saved the lives his remaining squad some other troopers.
It’s just a matter of time util I start slapping people who refer to us run-of-the-mill, did our duty, perhaps even with some degree of distinction, but did nothing heroic. It waters down the importance of our real and true heroes.
So, ROS, if your intention is to honk off a bunch of vets, then go right on ahead and keep denegrating our actual heroes by hanging a title on us that we have not earned. Too bad if that offends you, but do not pretend that you are calling us that for our benefit when clearly you are not.
Meanwhile, think of whoever you want as a hero. None of my business.
Okay troopers, I see it’s time for the MP’s. Let’s tighten up the ranks! I really don’t give a flock of goat roper asses where nor when all of us served, who calls us “hero’s” or even if the fracking sun rises in the west and sets in the east.
It just doesn’t MATTER. I don’t give one, solid damn if you served in Nam, stateside, nor Somalia, Grenada, Balklands, Beirut.
Matter of fact, I just don’t give a frack. Tighten your chit up. You could have served under your mother bed and I could give a royal rats ass less. Good Lord….
Why does this Chris “I can’t” pussy’s god (Notice little g is used) damn pansie ass opinion even enter the perimeter…Do I have to figure out a way to search each of you knuckleheads BEFORE you sound off? Damn.
I will, OWB, thank you. Id that “honks you off”, I can’t help that. won’t be told that I’m wrong for choosing my own heroes, though.
*If
As for ir being for your benefit, I don’t see how being termed a hero actually benefits anyone. It entitles the recipient of a certain level of respect, of course, but the acts warranting its application take more than they give. I don’t see how anyone is supposed to be “happy” about that or receive benefit.
ROS – Nobody here has advocated for somehow limiting your right and ability to proclaim your personal hero’s, nor to specify who may fall into that category. I likewise don’t believe that anybody here has taken offense to your desire to pursue that personal line of reasoning.
But you have taken offense to those of us who believe that the term has been diluted, for a myriad of reasons, but diluted nonetheless. Disagreement between gentlemen? Fine. Taking offense? Really?
The offense is more at the notion that service in itself does not constitute an heroic deed. It, as you’ve made note, dilutes its importance. Perhaps noble would be a better word? It is heroic to me in that a person willing to face the call, whether or not they sacrifice all or part of themselves, is worthy of that title. It is that willingness to do what others won’t or can’t. I can agree to view things differently and be offended simultaneously. That doesn’t mean that I think you aren’t entitled to believe as you do, or that you’re any less a decent person because of it.
And I believe the phrase “go right on ahead and keep denegrating our actual heroes by hanging a title on us that we have not earned” pretty much implies that I’m wrong for choosing my heroes as such.
I can accept your characterization of honorable service as “noble”, ROS. But count me among those who hold that characterizing all honorable service as “heroic” is incorrect, and that doing so indeed cheapens bona fide heroism. IMO, the two are simply not synonymous.
I’d phrase the distinction this way. Honorable service is inherently noble. To be a hero requires honorable service that also includes uncommon valor.
[…] more IVAW input on the Chris Hayes comment May 29th, 2012 We talked about Chris Hayes and his discomfort yesterday, and how Geoff “Stolen Valor” Millard wants to help Hayes to spread his […]