Michael A. Mancuso Sr. takes Stolen Valor to the grave(Update 9-29-2011)
From one of my countless hometowns, Oswego, NY where I finished college and put my kids through high school, comes the story of Michael A. Mancuso Sr., 89 who died Saturday taking his secret to the grave with him.
Mike was born and raised in Oswego. He served gallantly in the U.S. Army Air Corps during World War II. He served as a ball turret gunner in a B-24 Liberator in the 58th Air Division, 392nd Bomber Group, flying 40 flights out of Wending, England. He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, Distinguished Service Cross, Air Medal and the Oak Leaf Cluster.
Yeah, Home of Heroes doesn’t list him in their records of Distinguished Service Medal recipients. Nor does the Distinguished Flying Cross Society list him as a recipient of that medal.
His military service was one of Mike’s proudest times, and he loved telling his stories to anyone who would listen.
“Stories” is an apt description.
Thanks to AverageNCO for the link.
Update (Sporkmaster)
I am currently waiting on additional info from official group for the 392nd Bomber Group that is listed and his unit on the obituary about his awards. I found a photo of him in a crew photo under the command of Lt. Fletcher. There is only one mention of Lt. Fletcher’s crew and Mancuso is not mentioned in that mission.
26 Mar 1944 578th Sqdn.
A/C 415P Fletcher, R.E. 1st Lt.
CP McCarthy, C.G. 2nd Lt.
N Keck, R.W. 2nd Lt.
B Judd, G.W. 1st Lt. (KIA)
E Kelly, J.E. T/Sgt.
R Biska, S.L. Sgt.
RW Osborne, J.H. Sgt.
LW Wukotich, M.L. S/Sgt.
BT Mancuso, M.A. S/Sgt.
TG McNiel, J.M. S/Sgt.
Update x2 (Sporkmaster)
I just got this reply from the 392th Group.
According to our records, S/Sgt Mancuso, a member of the 578th Sqdn,
completed 27 combat missions for the 392nd as well as 9 diversions or
aborted missions for which he did not receive credit. This would have
entitled him to the Air Medal and four Oak Leaf Clusters.
Between late December 1943 and late February 1944, S/Sgt Mancuso and his
crew were sent to the 93rd Bomb Group to be trained as a Path Finder Force
crew. While there, Mancuso flew several combat missions with the 93rd BG.
I do not know if he flew enough missions to qualify for another Oak Leaf
Cluster.
He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross upon successful completion of
his combat tour. I have no information about his being awarded the
Distinguished Service Cross.
I have seen similar versions of the letter that Brig Gen Johnson wrote.
Mancuso’s last mission was on 13 May 1944, and the letter was no doubt
intended to help him secure a good follow-up job in the Air Corps or in
civilian life. Johnson referred to an enemy aircraft that Mancuso was
credited with destroying; that was on 8 Oct 1943, when he shot down a JU-88.
S/Sgt Mancuso was a member of the 2nd Air Division, not the 58th
Category: Phony soldiers
Damn…are they having a closeout sale on phony vets and Walter Mitty’s?
Maybe it’s the time of year? Although there is a picture of a Michael Mancuso on the 392 BG web page, listing him as a member of R.E. Fletcher’s crew, and as a SSG ball turret gunner.
Um sorry but the DFC society does not include all recipients of the medal. My dad was awarded it twice and I have the citations to prove it yet he is not listed. Not saying the guy is legit, just that the list in definitely incomplete.
For the record, I was nowhere near Viet Nam. I served in Dixie.
Echoing UpNorth:
Mancuso is indeed identified in a crew photo as a ball-turret gunner, wearing E-5 stripes. No question that he flew and had a hazardous combat position. So let’s give him that, at least. Certainly not ‘Walter Mitty’.
Playing Devil’s (or Mancuso’s) Advocate, I note that both of the sites you link carry disclaimers of completeness-
The
Distinguished Service Cross
This listing is as complete as we are able to provide from numerous resources, however it is possible that a few recipients may not be listed. You can verify if someone received the Distinguished Service Cross from this list, but absence of a name should NOT be construed to definitively negate a veteran’s claim to this award. We DO believe that the list of recipients contained herein is 99.9% COMPLETE for ALL Wars and periods.
DFC_
Our Society was not founded until 1994 and is composed or DFC recipients who either joined the Society or whose loved ones made them members posthumously and their names are listed on our Honor Roll in perpetuity. The names listed in red have a hotlink that when clicked on will display that members’ DFC citation.
Well, old newspaper clippings told the truth on Mr. Wilburn Carr, jr.; wonder if S/Sgt Michael A. Mancuso Sr’s hometown newspaper archives has anything on him from the war years…
I know two honorable individuals of whom I have done Legacy portraits who have the Distinguished Flying Cross, and they are not on the list of the Distinguished Flying Cross Society. That should not be proof that Mr. Mancuso did not earn that medal. Stating that he had a Distinguished Service Cross is a whole other mater.
So, you guys didn’t do any fact checking before you decided to post a story smearing a veteran? Maybe you should take it down and get your facts straight.
Numbnuts–DSC? Care to explain that one? Seems to me that while it might be an oversight to not include a DFC 70 years after the fact, the fact is that ALL Silver Stars and above are documented and readily available on the Web.
He never got one. Granted, I’ll go easy right this second and say a lot of civilians don’t know the difference between a DSC and a DFC, but the veteran who earned (or didn’t earn) them should know.
For the record, it’s not like Jonn or anyone else here goes out with the mindset, “Immma gonna fuck over some guys today.” They pretty much fuck themselves with their bullshit. I know for a fact that I’m not going to claim anything I’m not entitled to, which is anything above a Navy Achievement Medal or my dolphins/boomer pin. So anyone who tries to claim I was a high-speed, low-drag super SEAL with 4 Navy Crosses, etc., is full of shit and never got it from me.
See how easy that is?
I mentioned this yesterday on a different post. A lot of my family thought that my Gtrandad had earned a silver star for valor, but it turned out it was just the soldier’s medal. Had someone been so inclined to include the erroneous silver star in his obit, he could have easily been on a site like this for stolen valor that he did not, in fact steal.
This one seems a bit off in terms of authenticity and could be a mistake.
I have a Gent down the street who started flying B-17’s at the end of WWII but never made it to the war, crazy career in bombers, pissed off a boss and ended up flying spotter planes over VN. He has the DFC and a Silver Star. The Certs are framed on his wall with the old black and white pictures of his CO pinning it on him. It’s not listed in Home of Hero’s, they wanted a copy and before I could scan it, his health took a turn for the worse. So I’m pretty sure not all Certs are listed there.
With that being said, I haven’t known John not to do his research which means you don’t make his radar without him doing the proper IFF check on the target before calling Fox 2.
Honestly, a DSC is a pretty easy check, and the 99.9% disclaimer is just that. We are going to see a lot more of this as the WW II generation dies off and children and grandchildren, with no military experience, are easily confused between the names and requirements for different awards, which are essentially meaningless to them, anyway. What needs to happen is that funeral home owners and news papers need to question when the family starts throwing around military awards called stars, crosses, and honor for inclusion. A quick Google check can generally confirm or deny.
I never really thought about it, but how much fact checkling would typically go into an obit? Or more to the point, are claims in advirtising checked (outside of the general legal disclaimers?) I guess it goes back to who is ultimately responsible for the accuracy?
Eighth Air Force personnel received 226 DSCs. Home of Heroes only has 173 citations on file for Eighth Air Force Recipients. Just sayin’.
HM2: The average obit is not fact checked at all as it is not reporting by the paper in 99.99999% of the cases. Those are either written by the funeral home based on info given to them by the families, or by the families. Rather than it being news, it is a “public service” provided free by the paper (their take on it).
If the newspaper makes a mistake in “editing” the obit, they have no liability or interest in making a correction of any type. Know that from them messing up my Dad’s obit. Unless the person is very famous or has the money to pay to have it run again, they won’t do a damn thing.
Dad’s didn’t have some stuff in it because I couldn’t verify it via his records (some competition shoots for the Marines). I didn’t want to take the chance of getting something wrong, so erred on the side of caution. Not all do that, obviously.
I’m not sure that this particular post was responsible. I am glad there are people such as the vets here who expose liars and frauds. But in this case, there is nothing that leads me to believe that the deceased created lies relating to valor. At least to me, it is plausible that the family somehow botched it, whether it was misunderstood or just became family legend, etc. Now counter could be that the guy never corrected this, but do we know when he lost his mental faculties? His loved ones could have oversold him based on his legit stories and service. I’m not saying he did or did not create and perpetuate a lie, I’m just not sure that we know enough in this case to affirmatively post that he himself was a liar. Maybe a qualifying statement in the post stating that he does not appear on the databases but there is nothing showing where the story came from?
The man this article is about was my grandfather. I came across this page after doing some background research on the B-24 Liberator my grandfather was a gunner for and I cannot believe how disrespectful this is. Calling my grandfather a phony because some website doesn’t have his name listed on it is so irrational and also makes a joke out of a truly great man. My grandfather’s “stories” were not just simply stories, they were true. Also, he was awarded those medals and I know this because I would look at them as they sat on his wall every time I went to see him. I also have newspaper clippings from the 1940’s and letter from the 40’s as well that commends him for his service in the war.
Have you seen his records? Because anyone can buy any awards these days. So unless you have the documents that show that he earned those awards them he cannot wear them simple as that.
Here is the site that you can request his records and see for yourself.
http://www.archives.gov/veterans/
For the record, Kevin emailed me before he commented. I told him that if he could support his claims, I’d gladly retract this post and get the sources I used corrected. That offer still stands.
Kevin – there is a possibility that, somehow, your grandfather’s DSC slipped through the cracks. If that’s the case, you should do everything that you can to make sure that he gets the recognition that he deserves. Look at the paperwork that you have and see if you can find specific mention of a Distinguished Service Cross and Distinguished Flying Cross. My father was a WW II vet and has letters thanking him for his service, too, but his only medals were campaign medals. The letters were sent to every veteran. Also, go to the site that Spork mentioned, do the paperwork, and get the records for yourself. I hope that you can prove us all wrong.
So,Sporkmaster validated most of the information. Why has there not been a retraction and an apology issued to the family?
To help clear up some of the confusion over this situation this was the last e-mail I had sent about two weeks ago regarding the issue over the medals.
“Much like the response you received I was able to find more information on some of the medals in question.”
“The issue I have come to find with the DSC is that I know for a fact he had been awarded a service cross however after closer review on the belongings I was able to go through, this particular cross was not the DSC. At the time of his passing, and I’m sure you would be able to understand, it was very difficult on my family and I’m sure this cross could have very well been confused for the DSC. While I do find it hard to believe that the DSC would be mentioned at all if he didn’t receive it or even based just simply on confusion, at this time that is the only reasonable explanation I can come to. You asked for an explanation on his obituary so at this time that is the the most reasonable explanation I can give for it. I will be continuing my research on my grandfathers time in the air force and his accomplishments in order to find more facts.”
Again, I doubt that the DSC would have been mentioned by mistake but at this time I am willing to chalk it up to a misunderstanding of the medals in his collection.
Since then I was told that they will look into making a change to the page.