Sour Grapes

| November 20, 2019

Chief Gallagher

RADM Green still wants to snag Chief Gallagher’s SEAL pin.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/11/20/did-the-navys-top-seal-show-contempt-for-trump/

From the article:  In the works for four months, the move came hours before a Wednesday morning meeting with Naval Special Warfare superiors in California, who are expected to inform Gallagher that Naval Special Warfare commander Rear Adm. Collin Green has convened a Trident Review Board to take the coveted SEAL qualification pin away from the special operator.

Green seems to have mustered the support of his uniformed chain of command to administratively punish Gallagher, 40, even if it’s perceived as defiant to the White House.

“Chief of Naval Operations, Adm. Mike Gilday, supports his commanders in executing their roles, to include Rear Adm. Green,” said Gilday’s spokesman, Cmdr. Nate Christensen, in an email to Navy Times. – article

Sour grapes, maybe? Well, they can do what they want to, but if this is how the Navy is going to act – pick on one, but let the others get away with the same thing – it’s not my cup of tea. Why isn’t Green bushwhacking the others in that photo?

Category: "The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves", Navy

69 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
The Stranger

I think this Admiral needs to be shown the door. Let it go. You lost. If you feel this strongly about, it resign and put all your grievances in a strongly-worded letter and just go away.

Andy

I don’t think its a matter needing to be shown, but will be shown the door. Adm Green has declared himself to be chickenshit.

2banana

Over a pic of a dead isis terrorist?

Great recruiting material for future SEALS, you dumb cucks.

Doc Savage

What was the punishment for the other operators that had thier pic taken with the dead terrorist?

IDC SARC

Right?

Colonel just looked at a pic of mine he thought was improper in the BAS and said …take that down….and that was the end of it.

What ever happened to deckplate leadership?

HMCS(FMF) ret

It was headed out the door when I retired in ’08… too many “leaders” afraid to make decisions and hold people accountable, so they passed it on to the next person up the chain.

FC2(SW)Ron

I agree Senior Chief 100%. Everyone looking for the next bump instead of leading. Making popular decisions is easy. It’s the tough decisions that define what a true leader really is. Your subordinates are not your friends. But, you can be friendly to them.

SEAL TWO

Or, when things went sideways because of their wrong decisions, they found some hapless O-3 to blame.

5th/77th FA

I will state, again, my 2 pennies worth of why this Big Navy puke has it in for the Chief.

(A) The Chief has a bigger pair and did Real Deal SEAL Stuff while being a Real Deal Seal.

(B) The Chief has a trophy wife that “stood by her Man.”

Irregardless of whether the Chief’s actions were or were not the smartest move he made, the end result was the bad guy was dead and the Team Guys were alive.

#letitgo

5th/77th FA

SEAL. more proof reading Drill Sgt. I will drop down and give 50.

Hack Stone

What about using the word “irregardless” instead of “regardless”? Hack learned the difference while watching Major Dad and GySgt Bricker pointed out to Lt Holowachuk that the word is regardless, not irregardless. His response was classic Lt’ism, “Isn’t it like flammable and inflammable?”

5th/77th FA

Hack Stone, I wuz awaiting incoming from Sister Mary Grace on my lack of improper English Grammar on that one. Thought about using, oh something like, it don’t mean a hill of beans, or maybe that Southern Classic, don’t make no never mind or even better, it ain’t worth a flying phuque at a rolling donut. Which, btw, the flag can take a stab at the latter. That SOB has inflamed my attitude.

West Point 1987

Somebody explain this to me…The Trident is a qualification badge, issued upon successful completion of BUDS, no? How is taking a picture with a dead terrorist disqualify him long after completion of the course? And I don’t give me any “discredit to the SEAL community” stuff, there was an avenue to take to do that, and the SOC command lost. He’s not the first to take a souvenir photo of dead enemy and he won’t be the last. Not excusing it, but this action against him is a bunch of sour grapes.

Anonymous

The butthurt is strong in Green.

IDC SARC

I’m not a SEAL, but having finned in similar waters this is what I know.

The Trident isn’t awarded at BUDS…Sailors have to complete SQT and be recommended by a board to then wear the Trident. So it’s about another 6 months past BUDS. Unless they changed it all again.

When I went through the Q-course on Bragg SEALS that came from BUDS and Jump School without having been to SQT did not have Tridents. Later while I was an Instructor there, they were sending the men to SQT first and then the Q-Course so they were all arriving with freshly earned Tridents.

West Point 1987

Thanks for the info!

Poetrooper

Thanks for that explanation, IDC. The first question that popped into my mind when I read this yesterday, was, “How the hell can they take away a qualification badge?”

I agree with 2banana: What a dumbass way to recruit future candidates for supposedly the toughest qualification course in the military. Can you imagine enduring all that pain and hardship only to have the cherished uniform symbol of your dedication and proud accomplishment taken away by some #WOKE-ass, political admiral because you violated some troop-endangering ROE drawn up by a bunch of JAG-REMFs during the defeatist, anti-military, Obama administration?

The only conclusion to be drawn here is that the contemporary United States Navy is as totally bat shit crazy as the Democrat Party.

NECCSeabeCPO

This is more about the NEC qualfacation, that goes with Trident. There are certain requierments to earn it and keep it. I think this is what it is about reviewing to see if any violations in the NEC requirements. This happens all the time in Warfare communities.They might be required to do it, you never hear about them, but this is high profile.

SEAL TWO

Actually, the “Trident” is not awarded upon completion of BUD/S. Following BUD/S there is additional training and a probation period, after which your performance is reviewed. Upon positive review, you may then be awarded the Trident.

The Other Whitey

How petty can you be? If they have evidence (other than hearsay) that he is actually the horrible piece of shit some have claimed he is, then it should have found its way into a court of law. That didn’t happen, clearly indicating that such evidence likely doesn’t exist. The evidence used to convict him for posing with the dead muj asshole, i.e. the photos themselves, also implicated a dozen other guys who have all skated. The prosecution team and Big Navy illegally violated Gallagher’s rights on multiple occasions. The entire thing reeks of some petty personal vendetta.

OWB

This is what happens when some folks are led to believe that they are sooo special that whatever they want, the rest of us should provide, then they don’t get what they want.

The RADM needs some well earned time standing in a corner, out of the way. He’s acting like a brat and should be treated like one.

Meanwhile, these fools who are STILL upset that their candidate didn’t win the last presidential election really should grow up. Most of us managed somehow to serve a president we hadn’t voted for with no ill effects, or at least none too very painful. A few days ago I calculated that I had voted for roughly half the presidents who served as my CinC. No hissy fits, no angst, no shirking of duty. And I really couldn’t tell who the folks I worked with had voted for either. Didn’t matter. We had jobs to do and did them whoever was CinC.

SFC D

I didn’t always agree with or care for the policies of the Presidents I voted for, but they were still the CinC and I carried out my orders. That’s how it’s supposed to work.

AW1Ed

A Trident Review Board would be better served if it examined the actions of the junior SEALS who ‘allegedly’ set Chief Gallagher up in the first place.

IDC SARC

That might actually happen. Review boards are generally not advertised.

SgtBob

Are the admiral and the Army lt. col. representative of today’s officer corps? The adm. says, “I don’t care what the president said,” and the lt. col. says, “It was my duty to report the president’s conversation.” The CIC is the CIC. You don’t like what’s going on, resign and then start talking.

11B-Mailclerk

Personally, I am hoping Trump Term Two includes an -epic- purge of the Armed Forces. (and the civvy side swamprats, too)

Overdue, and the rot is becoming blatantly apparent.

Former EM1/SS

There are Admirals who I don’t respect as much as they would like, but I have never even thought about referring to one as a full-blown douche-nozzle before. Green is a full-blown douche-nozzle. And Gilday seems to be aspiring towards nozzlehood

Huey Jock

Green ain’t never been up to his nose in green slime with leeches trying to latch on to his roids while beating off snakes.

I stand with Gallagher.

SEAL TWO

That trident-wearing turd called McRaven is a full-blown douche-nozzle.

rgr769

Ditto

Evilone03

Agree about McRaven. If everyone wants to give him credit as the JSOC/CC and the Bin Laden raid, then he gets all the blame for the Extortion 17 debacle.

A Proud Infidel®™️

IMHO that Admiral wants to show everyone that he’s a 24K 0bamite, he needs to be put out to pasture as well!

Martinjmpr

Adm Green is showing himself to be a very petty officer. 😉

Next I expect RADM green will stamp “no dessert” on Chief Gallagher’s meal card, bend his dog tags in half and send him to Vietnam.

H1

If this goes down.
CNO may find a pile of tridents on his desk one morning.

rgr769

This BS move is weak sauce symbolism. The chief will quietly retire. Now if they
had a ceremony where they ripped off his trident and broke his NCO sword in half like that beginning scene in that Chuck Connors TV show, that would be epic.

ChipNASA

That show was “Branded”. it was slightly before my time but I do remember it.

rgr769

Thanks,I couldn’t remember the name. As a former Indian Wars re-enactor, I always love how Hollywierd is determined that everyone in the cavalry in the 19th century wore a yellow neckerchief. Uh, no they didn’t, as proven by every contemporaneous photograph ever taken.

David

And everyone from 1840 on carried 1873 Peacemakers. Or 1936 Nazis all carried MP40s.

rgr769

And Lugers. Don’t forget the Lugers.

Twist

I always thought that Chuck Connors was the most cowboy name ever.

SEAL TWO

Even though he, too, was a little “light in the loafers…” Back then such things were kept out of the public eye by Hollywood.

Poetrooper

This gives an opposite meaning to a term quite meaningful to those of us who hang here: Stolen Valor.

These political, perfumed princes are trying to steal Chief Gallagher’s Trident, attempting to remove something from his uniform which he is fully entitled to wear by virtue of his having completed the training and then having served in the proper operational units for many years.

What makes this a particularly wretched play, is that it is a very petty act of Stolen Valor being enacted upon a very grand stage.

Ret_25X

Valor stolen by the chain of command is far more common than many believe.

It is so commonplace that it is a foundational part of GI folk wisdom…you know…”put the soldier in for a MoH to get them an ARCOM wisdom.

I have seen soldiers routinely denied awards because of the fragile nature of the butt hurt commanders assigned over them who cannot bear the thought that an enlisted troop may have an award not in their own self love rack.

Worse, I have witnessed officers awarding themselves the CAB for the actions of others.

Is it wrong? Hell to the yes!

Will it stop? You be the judge

Anonymous

Some REMF candyass couldn’t get their own dead terrorist to pose with, so they made their indignation (whining butthurt) official.

Jeff LPH 3, 63-66

The system was screwed back when I was in. I got in trouble while the ship was in the Philly ship yard dry dock getting it ready for her home port change from Norfolk NOB to Dago (san diego). We were still on cold iron watch after the dock was flooded and every time I had the AC&R watch, I checked out the cold iron log book to see which equipment was on or offline. Next thing you know, the MM2 & myself are written up because I didn’t check the #1 low pressure air compressor down in the hole (boiler room) and it ran out of oil. XO hearing then Capt’s mast where both of us got a short suspended bust. I explained that the compressor was still listed as off line but it didn’t matter. The skipper told us that if he had more men like us on board, the ship would be at the bottom of the bay. I can’t remember the name of the bay that NOB was in.

AW1Ed

Chief Gallagher’s brother sounds off. Brother of Navy SEAL chief blasts top admiral: ‘Two-star is defying an order from the president’ By Matt London The brother of Navy SEAL Chief Edward Gallagher blasted a top rear admiral in the U.S. Navy and accused him of “defying an order from the president” as the Gallagher family awaited the results of a new review that may punish the decorated special operator. “This is a move of pure vindictiveness from a petulant admiral who was really, really hurt that he lost,” Sean Gallagher, brother of Chief Petty Officer Edward Gallagher, told Fox Nation on “Deep Dive.” In October, the Navy upheld Gallager’s conviction on a single charge of posing with the dead body of an ISIS fighter. He was acquitted on six charges, including the murder of an Islamic State fighter in Iraq. Gallagher’s sentence reduced his rank, costing him up to $200,000 in retirement funds. A senior U.S. defense official told Fox News on Tuesday that the top admiral in the Navy planned to announce a review in which peers will determine whether to remove SEAL Eddie Gallagher’s Trident pin. This after last Friday the White House announced that President Trump signed an order reversing the sentence and promoting him to the grade of E-7, the rank he held before he was tried. Despite the president’s order, the Navy is reportedly considering whether or not to punish Gallagher by removing his Navy Trident pin, which Sean Gallagher described as a highly prized… Read more »

OlafTheTanker

Maybe it’s just my faulty memory, but I seem to remember back in the day MY “who’s who in your chain of command” photos on the wall of our HQ had Ronald Regan’s pic over the top of every one else’s pic.

I guess thing s have changed, or the Navy has a whole nuther different CoC than the Army.

Slow Joe

Wow. What a shitbag. RADM Green needs a leadership lesson.

USAFRetired

I am probably at odds with many here on this matter, but here goes.

I think the whole UCMJ thing was unwarranted and politically motivated. IMO this should have been handled originally by the Trident Review Board, and whatever they deemed appropriate so be it.

I’m sort of old school and I hold senior NCOs and Officers to a higher standard and the Chief exhibited gross poor judgement for the posing with the corpse. That didn’t set a good example for anyone and brought disrepute on the SEALS in general and the Navy in particular.

SteeleyI

I agree with you completely, and can’t wait to see the measured, reasonable responses you get.

This didn’t happen in the heat of battle, it happened on a secure compound as part of a reenlistment ceremony, after a number of other questionable activities. He was spared a murder conviction by the platoon medic, who essentially reversed his previous statements and claimed to have killed the kid to put him out of his misery.

The Navy Special Warfare community is having major issues right now, and they can’t just pretend this didn’t happen.

USAFRetired

Everything I have gathered on this subject disagrees with your contention that he was spared a murder conviction as a result of another reversing his statements. Those charges should never have come to trial, the fact that there appears to be prosecutorial misconduct as well as incompetence associated with those politically motivated actions lend credence to that opinion.

The piling on charge/specification he was found guilty of was the IMO only potentially legitimate charge, and never should have been brought and IMO never would have been brought if it wasn’t for political influence from on high.

That particular act should have been handled administratively, along the lines of the TRB originally.

SteeleyI

Corey Scott testified first that he saw Gallagher stab the kid, then said he actually killed him by covering his breathing tube.

Gallagher claimed to have stabbed him (bragged about it in emails), and other platoon members testified to it.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/06/24/thanks-to-seals-immunity-deals-confessed-killer-unlikely-to-be-charged/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/26/us/corey-scott-edward-gallagher-navy-seal.html

A Proud Infidel®™

If that was credible testimony than Chief Gallagher would have been convicted on that charge and he wasn’t.

You lose.

SteeleyI

Scott’s testimony is what exonerated Gallagher. Maybe you should read the story.

His original sworn statement was that he saw Gallagher kill the prisoner. The point is that Scott lied at some point along the way.

You pick which was a lie; I don’t care.

Martinjmpr

Gallagher claimed to have stabbed him (bragged about it in emails), and other platoon members testified to it.

Another “Special Operator” who forgot the First Rule of Fight Club?

USAFRetired

Corey Scott testified first that he saw Gallagher stab the kid, then said he actually killed him by covering his breathing tube.

What the article actually said is quoted below from the article you linked to.


In a dramatic moment during his Thursday testimony, Scott told a packed courtroom at Naval Base San Diego that the man on trial for premeditated murder, Special Warfare Operator Chief Edward “Eddie” Gallagher, the enlisted boss of Alpha Platoon, SEAL Team 7 during a deployment to Iraq two years ago, might’ve stabbed the detainee but he didn’t kill him.

To prevent Iraqi security forces from torturing the boy to death, Scott said, he blocked the seriously wounded teenager’s breathing tube and let him die. He was the killer, not Gallagher.”

Not quite what you insinuated. The PO did not confess until he had immunity. The fact Navy prosecutors put him on the stand without knowing what he was going to testify to is pure incompetence. One of the basic rules is don’t ask questions you don’t know the answer to.

Stabbing the individual didn’t kill him. The act of the PO did for the reasons he testified to.

The other link says PO1 might be charged with perjury, apparently the only thing not covered by his transactional immunity deal. Here it is 5 months later has he been charged with perjury?

SteeleyI

He changed his story up at some point. He, along with other members of the platoon, originally stated they saw Gallagher stab the kid. Then, on the stand, Scott testified that he killed the kid by covering his breathing tube.

Someone is lying- it’s either Gallagher, Scott, and the LT, or it’s the other guys in the platoon.

Either way, the platoon did not cover themselves in glory with this incident.

Read the evidence. This was not in the heat of combat. It was in a secured compound. The detained was already wounded. They posed with e corpse for a reenlistment ceremony. Gallagher bragged in emails that he ‘got this one with his hunting knife’. Other members of the platoon, also SEALS, thought Gallagher was out of control.

SFC D

I concur, USAFR. He should’ve known better, and most likely did. HOWEVER… the Navy’s response and resultant circus was way out of proportion to the actual “crime”.

USAFRetired

No argument here. IMO that overreaction was politically motivated.

STSC(SW/SS)

If Admiral Green wants the pin so bad maybe the Chief can mail it to him with instructions how to shove it up his ass.

SteeleyI

I won’t speak for the Navy, but in the Army most qualification badges can be revoked by the proponent at the recommendation of a commander. See the link below, para 1-32. This includes everything from Jump wings to the SF tab. We used to regularly revoke jump wings of paratroopers with drug offenses. Another unusual case is the Tomb Sentinel badge. My operations NCO turned in an NCO in a sister unit for falling out of a unit run and generally being a bad Soldier, and the Old Guard held a board.

This sound to me like due process. I have a feeling that every SEAL convicted in a court martial (as Gallagher and his platoon mates were) go through a similar review. Remember, the president granted clemency, the convictions are still in place.

It will be interesting to see what they decide.

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN18147_R600_8_22_admin2_FINAL.pdf

SteeleyI

I should say Combat and Special Skill badges

SFC D

“We used to regularly revoke jump wings of paratroopers with drug offenses”.

I spent a lot more time than I cared for as a unit drug and alcohol NCO, and put a lot of Soldiers out for various related offenses. Is it even legal to revoke a parachutists badge for a drug offense? Does that fall under 1–32, Revocation of badges, Special Forces Tab, Ranger Tab, and Sapper Tab, 2(f): “Command deems a safety violation regardless of how long a Soldier has served on airborne status”?

A Proud Infidel®™

I’ve heard of a Tomb Guard having his Badge revoked, I’ve heard of Special Forces Tabs being revoked, but an Airborne Badge over drug offenses? I’ve heard of wings being revoked, but not for that!

SteeleyI

Yes. How can I trust you to be safe in the aircraft, follow procedures, and check your buddies static line if you are smoking pot?

One of my brother company commanders had 5 guys come up hot. He went through the whole process, did everything legally and properly,t hen ripped the wings off in front of a company formation. All legal, until he said ‘this is what we do to pot smokers in Alpha Compnay. We are going to slam these guys’. This was before the court martial.

2 of the convictions were later thrown out for undue command influence.

A Proud Infidel®™️

Maybe they can now revoke Vindman’s Ranger Tab?

JTB

Leave Gallaghers Bird alone….

whizzbang

Ain’t happening according to President Trump

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1197507542726909952

Retired NFO

Check out Trump’s tweet this morning. Will Adm Green resign in protest?