Federal Judge Strikes ObamaCare Down
When the tax bill was signed into law, before the end of last year, one of the things that it contained was the repeal of the individual mandate. But, the mandate still remains in effect as of this year. Now comes the other prong of attack, a federal judge ruled that not only is the individual mandate unconstitutional, but so is the rest of the law.
From thehill.com:
U.S. District Court Judge Reed O’Connor ruled that the law’s individual mandate is unconstitutional, and that because the mandate cannot be separated from the rest of the law, the rest of the law is also invalid.
The law is still in effect, and appeals are pending. Whichever side you’re on, prepare for a “battle”.
the New York Times provides a more detailed account, but with some biases injected:
The ruling was over a lawsuit filed this year by a group of Republican governors and state attorneys general. A group of intervening states led by Democrats promised to appeal the decision, which will most likely not have any immediate effect. But it will almost certainly make its way to the Supreme Court, threatening the survival of the landmark health law and, with it, health coverage for millions of Americans, protections for people with pre-existing conditions and much more.
If you read the New York Times article, they mentioned which president appointed the judge that made this decision, and mention who would negatively be impacted by this decision:
“Today’s ruling is an assault on 133 million Americans with pre-existing conditions, on the 20 million Americans who rely on the A.C.A.’s consumer protections for health care, on America’s faithful progress toward affordable health care for all Americans.” – Xavier Becerra, California’s Attorney General
You can read more at The Hill and an New York Times. The Hill has a PDF copy of the ruling.
Category: Politics
If the Constitution and Supreme Court precedent is followed, ObamaCare must fall. It’s not complicated. It really isn’t.
And now when that fool Roberts decides to answer a question not asked, rather than to answer the case at hand, and do so incorrectly both in fact and in law, he will not count. We have control of the court and the matter will be settled in the correct manner, and Obama’s fake legacy will be rendered invalid en toto.
I saw that in this morning’s paper. I giggled, and nearly blew hot tea all over the place.
Good. Now if they could just figure out how to not murder babies with tax payer’s money we’d be closer to justice.
Roh: I wish. Funny how if a single cell organism were to be found on Mars, it would be proof of life.
But …
Babies are nothing more than non-viable tissue mass up until the moment they are born, and even that is no guarantee they won’t be slaughtered while trying to be born.
We’ve come a long way, Baby, but unfortunately in the wrong direction.
Just some thoughts.
It would be considered life, but so is Staphylococcus which is known to cause Staph Infections.
Also if we are going to argue when life begins, then why are we consider a persons age by estimated conception date rather then birthdate?
Human life, versus life in general.
Convenience of dating. Hard to know exactly when one “caught” , assuming some enthusiasm, but kinda hard to miss the date/time stamp of delivery.
“Oh, -that- people isn’t -really- people” has been used to justify all sorts of diabolical evil, including trafficking in human flesh.
I saw Pelosi insisting that the Oval Office meeting the other day should be “prayerful,” and saw her making damn sure the cameras saw her do the Sign of the Cross beside George Bush’s casket. This two-faced old bitch virulently opposes everything the Catholic Church teaches, but wants to show us how Catholic she is when she thinks she can get mileage out of it.
Guess what, Nancy? Catholics (and Christians in general) believe that it’s disgustingly and indefensibly WRONG to murder babies in the womb! Period! It is not a “woman’s choice,” it’s the murder of the most innocent of all possible human life! It is EVIL! If the Pope had any balls, Pelosi would be publicly excommunicated. Sadly, that is clearly not the case, and Francis/Bergoglio is unworthy of his office anyway.
The pope has plenty of balls…. they are all underage though.
Educate me: I thought Planned Parenthood didn’t use federal monies for abortions?
I was under the impression that the federal money was only for vaccinations, contraception, and general health of parents/kids.
Money is fungible. A dollar received from any source with restrictions on its use merely frees up funds to be spent elsewhere. Absent receipt of that restricted funding, the smaller remaining amount of money would be allocated differently.
Here’s an example: a guy gives you a gascard that can only be used to buy gas at Chevron stations – but it’s worth $2000 in Chevron gasoline. Presto: since you have $2000 in free gas, that means you’ve got $2000 more to spend on groceries, rent, and utilities, or anything else you please. Provided you’re going to buy gas anyway, the effect is the same as if he handed you $2000 in cash without restrictions.
Any Federal funding received by Planned Parenthood with use restrictions dollar-for-dollar increases the amount available to do things for which they can’t legally use Federal funds.
Hey, Becerra! You’re a lying, dissembling, disingenuous, slithering, gutless, nutless sack of political snake shit just like your bosses Gav and Jerry!
Sincerely,
A California resident & taxpayer who Xavier Becerra ostensibly works for.
So, T.O.W., why don’t tell us exactly how you feel? And this time, try not to hold back or suppress your inner feelings.
And yeah, Roh-Dog. Planned Parenthood has killed way yonder more people than all the guns combined in this country. And they did a lot of it using our money.
AND Planned Parenthood has donated heavily to D-rat campaigns in many an election!
Which means we all have by proxy.FFS
How we allow people and organizations which receive taxpayer monies to lobby for said taxpayer money is beyond me. One of the rare times you’ll find me agree with Bernie. Too much money in politics. It either looks dirty or is actually dirty. Which Bernie would know, being a millionaire after an adult life as a politician…
He’s using the same tactics as his predecessor, which has worked out great for her.
I want to see Jonathan Gruber taken to the town square and whipped as the scoundrel he is.
And then, I want to see Pelosi stand before the nation and confess that she never read the bill, nor did anyone else other than the subversives who contrived it.
America has a mandate for Pelosi’s incoming junta. We are going to put them out of business. If Trump only has two years left then it is already getting late to undo the corruption of the Obama regime. Don’t worry about getting reelected, focus on exposing the socialist sons-of-bitches who have sabotaged democracy and hold your own pogrom that will make Mueller’s witch hunt look like an online seminar.
If Trump keeps only one promise, let that be a draining of the swamp, by any means necessary.
“And then, I want to see Pelosi stand before the nation and confess that she never read the bill, nor did anyone else other than the subversives who contrived it.”
“We need to pass this Bill first so we can find out what’s in it.” – Nanny Lugosi in reference to 0bamacare
Amen. How derelict can an elective body be than to contrive a law into existence, when the wording of the law has yet to be written?
The answer is, Mueller. Appointing a Special Witch Hunt based on nothing more than an absurd document about Trump hiring women to urinate on him in a Russian hotel?
Trump and I have nothing in common when it comes to women but, without doubt, he has satisfied his desires and been very generous to all of them.
God bless Hillary. Were it not for her, Trump might never have had such an opportunity.
“God bless Hillary?” You just sent my guts into spasms and my old brain swirling into a furious rage.
NEVER EVER ASK GOD TO BLESS THAT BITCH!
Maybe some muted thanks for Hillary but certainly no blessings from the deity. Especially not here at TAH.
Sorry Poe, I see what you mean and apologize for incensing the sensibilities with my flippant comment.
Sarcasm withstanding, I did not think that anyone might actually believe that God would have anything to do with “that woman”, let alone bless her!
Poe, there are blessings, and then there are “blessings” that are really curses. So it is a blessing that shrillary got the nod and ran and had a rabid following (which seems to be dissolving) and still did not win, no matter how much she cheated.
Because of shrillary, the press kowtows to the most imbecilic people ever pulled out of a petri dish (Obviously-Confused is one) and the press just eats up and publishes whatever idiocy comes out of their mouths.
They have the limelight. They wanted the limelight. They should have been careful what they wished for. May they have LOTS of “blessings” heaped upon them as the pariahs that they are.
I know, I know, Ex; it was just a bit of a shock to read that here at TAH no matter the context. In fact it is the idiot leadership of the Democrat party that corruptly foisted Hillary on the electorate so it is them we should thank. If I overreacted I apologize; it was late and ol’ Poe was tired.
No need to apologize. Put your feet up, get some hot beverage and a good book and wait to see what happens.
The pot seems to be just below boiling point. Every now and then, there is a bubble that rises to the surface and lets out a stench that would offend a skunk.
I think there are more to come and it will all be from the Left side of the fence, while the Mugwumps will move to the Right.
Pelosi did indeed tell everyone flat out that they had to vote for the bill to find out what was in it. And that was the stupidest thing I had heard in my life up to that point. Unfortunately, a metric shit ton of Americans either didn’t bother to say WTF, or just didn’t care. So now they get to pay like $1800.00 a month for a very restrictive mandatory health care plan that does very little.
AH, yes… Johnathan Gruber, the architect of ACA. Public flogging would be the starting point for that smarmy, academic asshole.
Obamacare made health insurance coverage affordable for tens of millions of Americans. However, it failed to make medical care affordable for most Americans. There still exists a wide chasm between having insurance and being able to afford the cost of care.
IMHO, the most significant failure of American medicine is not providing a master charge list to consumers so we know what an operation, hospital stay, ancillary items, etc. actually cost. Instead, we’re trapped paying the difference between what a hospital bills and what the insurance company actually pays. Few can afford to hire legal expertise to successfully contest medical billing practices.
Obamacare should be taken of life support immediately and allowed to die a thousand deaths.
Exactly. It’s a bureaucratic mess. Take a massive private sector bureaucracy and throw in a dash of government bureaucracy and it’s like they almost designed it to fail from the outset so they could “fix it” in the future.
BINGO!!!
When it fails/failed, the gov would be there to cover everyone (see Canada, UK, etc…).
“not providing a master charge list to consume”
That’s not realistic considering the variances in cost of supplies, facilities, staff, experience and myriad other factors that involve the ultimate cost of a procedure.
IDC, I’d agree that it wouldn’t be possible to have a single “master list” covering the nation, but it would certainly be doable for each hospital to have one, like going to your mechanic, and getting an estimate that shows the labor costs, parts costs, etc. because as you pointed out, each hospital has different costs, and being able to know that “hospital A” would charge $1500 more for a given surgery vs. “hospital B”, would allow people to make better choices..
Yes, transparency at the facility level should be no problem. I agree with that.
That information is readily tracked anyway.
I have actually seen some of that, at least with the last two dentists I’ve gone to. They both gave a detailed estimate for the procedures, which led me to choose one over the other, considering my out of pocket was nearly double with the other.
My dentist does that. In the exam room as the work is going on I am shown the cost on a monitor and whether or not we’re going to proceed.
Had the exam cost, the work projected and the costs with and without the insurance figured into it.
But the patient never sees it until after the fact when your insurance company sends you a bill itemizing the costs and telling you how much of it you’re stuck with after paying all those high premiums for so long.
And that’s what could / should be changed Poe. If my dentist can bring me a sheet that tells me line by line what things are gonna cost BEFORE he does the work, and I can compare that to a similar list from another dentist, there’s no damn reason that a hospital CAN’T do the same..
Short answer is that IMO, they don’t want to. Plain and simple.
If they show you the bill “up front”, unless it’s an emergency situation you might go elsewhere – and take your insurance $$$ with you.
I recently did a “back of the envelope” style analysis of MRI costs. It’s admittedly incomplete, but it leads me to believe that MRI costs are WAY more than they should be – and insurance companies readily pony up the bulk of what’s billed for MRIs.
Might be able to put together an article on that in the next day or two. No promises, though.
“Short answer is that IMO, they don’t want to. Plain and simple.”
That’s pretty much the way I see it as well.
Information however is power and anyone that provides information even with the best intention is opening himself up to the actions of the unscrupulous.
Same reasons a lot of information isn’t released unless it’s required by law.
Agree 100%.. that’s why I said no reason the CAN’T.. but I believe you’re exactly correct on why they WON’T.. But that would be one area that I’d be ok with a “transparency” mandate, that all prices be either presented as an estimate, or available upon request / online, so that consumers could actually make informed decisions about non-emergency care.
Difference between your regular doc and the dentist is dental insurance covers little. For stuff it does cover it’s only a small percent. Had a plan a few years ago that covered 20% of anesthesia for wisdom teeth removal. They seriously expect me to get four teeth (two impacted) pulled without anesthesia?
Since you have to pay more out of pocket, it forces us to shop around. When medical insurance covers the clinic you like for the doctor, the location, or the hot nurse, you don’t have to care what it costs you just pick what you want.
Single-payer, medicare for all, or socialist insurance removes any lingering thought of cost the consumer/patient has. If big insurance has driven the price up in the last 50 years, imagine what it’ll cost when the only person who has to pay the bill is some government functionary.
The difference between your regular docs and the dentist is dental insurance only covers a small fragment of the costs. My dental plan when I had my wisdom teeth removed only covered 20% of the anesthesia. They really expect me to have four teeth (two impacted) with nothing? So since we have to pay out of pocket more, it encourages bargain shopping.
With health insurance, it covers the bulk of the cost, so we don’t do the research. Even with these high deductible plans, we all just plan on running out our deductible each year, so even that doesn’t discourage shopping.
Once we get single-payer, Medicare-for-all, socialized health care, or whatever it’ll be called, how much do you suppose anyone will care how much it costs when it’s being paid by some government functionary?
Has the left wing media propaganda machine yet started in about how “right wing activist judges” are destroying the “untarnished legacy” of the “greatest president” of the 21st century?
If they haven’t, they will soon. As they defend President Red Line and his scandal free terms.
Good. Now we can have the single payer system we need.
This will just accelerate progressive healthcare policies and support for progressive candidates.
Most of you all have government paid or subsidized health insurance already so it is a bit disingenuous to complain about using public funds for healthcare.
Just..damn.. your ass again. I won’t even legitimatize that drivel with an answer. Go away, go far away, you are annoying and really don’t know what the hell you are talking about.
Chew toy/clean up in Aisle 7.
Babbles McButthead’s noggin would likely explode if he had even one thought independent of the shit-for-brained drivel he gets fed there at UC Berzerkely!
Just give Socialism one more chance! No mass deaths this time, promise!
Fool. No sane or honest person buys that “single payer” bullshit.
That -you- back it speaks volumes.
Oh, I see. Lars the Imperial Knowsitall has not yet met with the exigenices of Medicare, in which the ONLY part that a single payer (Merdicare) pays for anything is Part A. Part B requires a premium that comes out of YOUR Social Security check, and Parts C & D are supplemental coverage purchased through various insurance carriers, and they may refuse to pay for whatever they think is unnecessary.
Yes, the single payer system is really, really great… IF YOU HAVE A BUNDLE OF CASH TO PAY FOR THE OTHER THINGS.
What an unbelievable asshole he is!! The ignorance gets deeper and thicker and stinkier every time he posts something.
It’s still early so may not quite be in step yet, but am I the only one who is paying big bucks for Medicare Part A? It is hardly free, although it may indeed be subsidized. Whatever it is, it is quite a lot more than my BC/BS used to be when I was in the work force.
Government can’t even do the jobs it’s supposed to do well. Bridges falling out of the sky, roads crumbling, national debt skyrocketing. So why on Earth would anyone who has ever worked for government think that the federal government would be a good, responsible steward of my health care?
Hear hear, I concur!
Oh, and I offer you the “Higher Education” given to a certain TAH Chew Toy®™ by UC Berzerkely as another example!
Canada and Britain have that single payer system you think is so great. Why don’t you get your socialist ass to one of those countries? You hate it here, you hate our system of government, so just get the fuck outa here.
Before you go, kindly point out which article of the Constitution specifically tells us that government is supposed to furnish health care to the citizens.
I wonder if he’ll whip his “Empirical Evidence” out in a reply to you?
He always reverts to form. Still, a few are fooled by him and still try to be kind to him. As I said before, he is Spenser Rapone’s idol. Phuk him and Rapone.
Sorry, wrong answer jackass! I and my employer pay for my insurance, no subsidies involved.. but keep trying, law of averages says sooner or later, by pure chance, you’ll be right on something
Give him time, Fyrfighter. Even the blind squirrel will occasionally find an acorn. Patience …
Once again, it drops a warm, steamy pile of shit and proclaims “Behold! A golden egg!”
Seagull.
Swoop, squawk, shit, skedaddle.
Sometimes iterative. Always pointless.
Hey, Lars! If government-run healthcare is so amazing, explain to me why federally-operated Indian health clinics on reservations that don’t have casinos suck so badly. There’s a lot of reservations around here, and I know a lot of tribal members. They all say the same thing. Congratulations on continuing to be full of shit.
TOW: Have him explain the train wreck known as the VA. If ever there was a federally funded and controlled monstrosity that was in need of overhaul, it is the VA.
Pointing HAAA HAAA HAW HAW
Single payer isn’t the “fix” you think it is, Lars. If you have a lick of common sense, instead of spouting off with your “empiric data” and other Bezerkeley bullshit, go look at the health care systems in your “socialist utopias”.
You’re fucking clueless about healthcare policies, Fuckkknuckle.
“Most of you all have government paid or subsidized health insurance already so it is a bit disingenuous to complain about using public funds for healthcare.”
But I, for one, didn’t have any government provided health care from the time I left the military until I qualified for Medicare, a period of more than forty years during which I was responsible for making sure I had health insurance, paid for by my employer or myself.
So what the hell is disingenuous about my complaining about a potentially disastrous single payer system?
For most here, such care falls into the category of “employee compensation”, Poodle.
For those serving on active duty, medical care for self and family is part of the employee compensation package and is not terribly different from any other employer subsidized health insurance. And if the member receives civilian care TRICARE standard, they often indeed have a cost share.
If the individual is a military retiree, that care is part of deferred compensation to the individual. You are familiar with the term “deferred compensation”, right?
Most recipients of VA healthcare have a VA disability rating. Their healthcare for those conditions would be most properly considered a form of workman’s compensation for on-the-job injuries. And unless one has a VA disability rating of 50% or higher, the facility is supposed to charge copayments for healthcare for non-service-connected conditions, hospital stays, prescription drugs, etc . . . .
Honestly, Poodle: do you ever actually think about what you’re planning to say here before you say it? Or do you just mindlessly throw out “Progressive” talking points simply because you can’t think of anything pertinent to say on your own?
This is where Bubblebrain’s ignorance comes up loud and clear.
The VA WILL charge your Medicare Part C and Part D insurance coverages if you have it, for NON-service connected care. They won’t take Medicare Part A or Part B, period, but Part C and D, which YOU pay for, are acceptable.
Also, you’re supposed to pay what they call a co-pay for emergency services, and you do have to pay for prescription drugs.
Otherwise, you fork over cash.
SINCE WHEN has Government made anything at all more efficient and useful? Before Medicare and Medicaid, most Medical Care was quite affordable AND most Hospitals had charity wards where lower income people would still receive care. After those two mentioned abominations went into effect, they drove a lot of costs up by their forced pricing, forcing hospitals to bill elsewhere to cover their costs. Liability Insurance is also a big cost for Doctors who have to PAY six figure sums for premiums, even for small town practices. Now we have the biblically huge living abortion known as 0bamacare where life and death decisions are made by unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats.
Yup, just like higher education, once the feds got involved in making it “more affordable” the costs absolutely went through the stratosphere.
And JUST look at the quality of an “Education” from someplace like UC Berzerkely!
“Education” administered by rectal tube and enema bag.
“Single payer” is about -power-.
That it will be a shit-storm is a feature, not a bug. All the better to solicit the pleas by those who then say they will “adjust” it.
And they will most assuredly misuse that previously-private information, as they misuse everything else with which they get trusted.
I had hoped that if Trump would eliminate just one department, he would cut funding for the Department of Education, which has not increased the mean IQ of American kids by one damn point. It’s nothing but endless seminars, meetings, six-figure bureaucrats sitting behind their mahogany desk, and the list goes on. Remember new math? Tell me how successful that was. Exactly what in the blazes does the Department of Education do that benefits this country? Hundreds (thousands ?) of PhD, all with equally worthless ideas about education. What a damn crock. Exactly what good is a PhD in Educational Leadership? Lead my ass. Get out of my way and get a real job.
If he could eliminate two departments, the Department of Energy would disappear. I would keep the NRC which regulates nuclear. I don’t need yet another PhD preach to me about the evils of electricity created by coal.
Hey fun fact all, for anyone that visits Victory Girls Blog, it’s seems that Lars found his way to the ACA thread over there… Just in case anyone wants to visit him…
I checked and there he is, playing coy, as if he were not the commie SOB he is. He was also wrong, again, stating that car repair costs cannot exceed the estimate. The law’s cap is not the estimate but 10% above the estimate.
True, though it’s probably as close to correct as he’s ever been about anything… his usual is nowhere close to just 10% wrong..
On a related note, I’d love to see him try his shit with Marta over there… Her response will make what he gets here seem like hugs and cuddles…
Going by his observed behavior, I’m starting to wonder if Commissar might have some kind of bizarre cyber-S&M fetish where he gets off on losing arguments with ridiculous bullshit and aggravating people to the point that they insult and ridicule him. Do they have a name for that kind of deviance, or should we just call it Commissar Syndrome?
I think that’d be an appropriate name.. and if that is in fact the case, he’ll LOVE Marta!
Dunno, TOW. Lars might have masochistic tendencies of a certain type, or he could be playing the troll because he’s a sociopath. Or both. Whichever one applies, as well as the level of his delusions, also seems to vary from day to day.
Personally, I try not to get caught up in the tarbaby of Lars’ insanity because it’s sort of like getting furious when a puppy pisses on the rug: he can’t help himself.
Oh, I went over there and pounded him and also, as I did here, pointed out that Medicare is NOT a single payer system any more, and has not been for a while.
I still think it would be a better course of action to ignore old Lars. He might go shit in someone else’s Wheaties.
Healthcare is so expensive because of overhead, salaries (lucrative field), leading edge technology, lawsuits and regulatory requirements. Nobody in this country goes without basic healthcare.
Health insurance is so expensive because so few people pay for it. Subsidies just make it more costly for those who already pay. Nobody has a right to health insurance unless you pay for it. Or any other form of insurance. It’s a business. Private business.
Bury Obamacare and let business handle business.
You are ABSOLUTELY right, especially on Liability Insurance, a former BIL who is still a Physician told me about 15 years ago that he paid over $120K in Malpractice Premiums alone and that kind of expense only goes up thanks to the legions of slobbering ambulance chasers! Yes, Medical Malpractice does happen, but a lot of lawers take shit to an extreme.
Pour FedBucks on something, watch the price rise to match.
Look at college education. Add oodles of aid, and colleges raise their prices. Kinda like there was a Law of Supply and Demand.
And lookie at military procurement. Almost as if that hypothetical Law was at work there too.
But Socialists say “nay. Won’t happen when -we- run things”.
Heh. Righto. The official Soviet exchange rate for an acquaintance who visited, was two dollars a ruble. He bought rubles under the table for 100:1. Penny per ruble. He was later told by his host he was ripped off. Two hundred was the going rate.
He also bought some KGB bling from one of his minders, for US Dollars. Ballsy.
“Nobody in this country goes without basic healthcare.”
This is the part that’s never confronted when the lefties go on about all the people not getting health care or claiming they’ll get turned away at the hospital. Nobody who needs it goes without. All the free clinics, the state and federal medical subsidies, etc.
People who are in need of emergency medicine do not get turned away from hospitals. They might get billed for it later, but if they’re poor they don’t pay or they’re already on a state/fed health plan filled with freebies. In which case the for profit hospital writes it off or the public hospital has the taxpayers foot the bill. You’ll never see anyone having a heart attack or stroke kicked out of an ambulance when they can’t find a gold plated insurance card.
Not sure what you all are cheering about. Without the individual mandate (which I agree is unconstitutional) Obamacare will fail.
And since Obamacare has implanted in the minds of most Americans the notion that providing health care is the responsibility of the Federal government, what do you think will happen when it fails?
Answer: It will be replaced by universal health care a/k/a single payer.
So if this decision stands (which I doubt it will since SCOTUS has already ruled on this very issue) all it does is accelerate the day when single-payer gets here.
I had a really long reply about bankruptcy and medical costs and gofundmes and fund raisers for medical treatments but I realize it’s all rather pointless to discuss because regardless of what any of us thinks there’s a couple of simple realities.
Romney wasn’t really wrong when he said the net effect of our tax policies means that 47% don’t actually pay any income taxes. 47% is pretty close to half, it only takes a few percentage of those who do pay income taxes to join with that 47% and decide they want single payer, and there won’t be any stopping it.
The election of Ocasio-Cortez is proof positive that the have nots are quite happy to vote in someone who is constantly talking about taking other people’s money and giving them something for “free”.
It’s an easy sell to get a few more folks on board, after all those least likely to be affected by the rising tax bill don’t much care how much it rises. Until we’re stripping the zoo animals of their flesh for dinner, then it will matter. Until then I suspect we will see continuing pushes towards single payer until such time as single payer is finally instituted here in the United States.
Each successive generation is softer and more accepting of government oversight in every aspect of their lives. We’ve gone from a fiercely independent free people to a people who willingly put on the yoke of obedience to the government in the name of safety and security. Single payer might not be the last step of buckling on that yoke, but it’s pretty fucking close.