Some Additional Information
This “Special” post is for those who were complaining and moaning about Pres. Trump not showing up for the Veterans Day ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery on November 11.
The information provided below should straighten up the issue of Trump’s not being at Arlington, but probably won’t have any effect on those who are complaining.
Veterans Day was Sunday, November 11, not Monday. Yesterday was Monday, Nov. 12.
Trump was back by Sunday NIGHT and the event took place during the DAY on Sunday, November 11. I’ll keep repeating that until it sinks in.
As I understand it, NIGHT follows DAY. So if he didn’t get back until Sunday NIGHT, how was he to be there during the DAY?? Magic beans or something?
According to his schedule for Nov. 11, 2018:
For anyone who doesn’t understand what “local” time means, in this case, local means French time. EST means Eastern Standard Tume USA
8:50 AM EST President Schedule – The President departs Paris, France, en route to Suresnes, France (1:50 pm Local – France)
9:10 AM EST President Schedule – The President arrives at Suresnes American Cemetery and Memorial (2:10 pm Local – France) American Cemetery and Memorial, Suresnes, France
9:15 AM EST President Schedule – The President attends the American Commemoration Ceremony at Suresnes American Cemetery hosted by the Secretary of the American Battle Monuments Commission (2:15 pm Local – France)
10:25 AM EST The President and THE FIRST LADY depart Orly, France, en route to Washington, D.C. ( 3:25 pm Local – France)
6:40PM EST The President and THE FIRST LADY arrive at Joint Base Andrews (That’s a little over an 8 hour flight.)
6:50PM EST The President and THE FIRST LADY depart Joint Base Andrews en route to the White House
7:00 PM EST President Schedule The President and the First Lady arrive at the White House
The information posted above comes from the President’s schedule which is publicly available for anyone who bothers to look it up.
The Veterans Day ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery was held and aired at on November 11, 2018 at 10:48 AM EST on C-SPAN 1.
It’s real easy to criticize someone in that job. Since we don’t have teleportation available just yet, it’s another small step to find fault with someone who is several thousand miles away on another continent marking an alliance with France that endured all the way through World War I and World War II and through to the end of the Cold War.
Maybe the President could get a ride in the Tardis from the Doctor.
Just in case anyone is wondering, it’s a minimum 8 hour flight from the USA to Europe or Europe to the USA. I’ve made that round trip twice. Once you turn right at Greenland and you’re over the Atlantic, it’s boring until you get near Ireland.
I don’t even vaguely think Trump is perfect, but he is tough and he knows how to get things done.
Maybe Trump should just have himself cloned. Then he could be in two places at the same time.
I do not care whether or not you like Trump. That’s your business.
But when you just jump on something and throw it at me and complain — it’s still your problem, but for some reason you have to make it mine.
Since you can’t be bothered to find things out, and I do the research….
Category: "The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves"
But he met with Putin?
You could also mention that The 11th was Veteran’s Day. Not Memorial Day as everyone thinks and acts like it is. Why don’t we just combine the two since just about everyone thinks its all about memorializing our dead?
WAAAAAH! Butthurt, I’m so butthurt.
I’m a special sparkle pony snowflake and I’m so butthurt.
W2, I think some preparation H will help with that??
Or a case of MD20/20?
Graybeard, Mad dog – your mean and I’ve had very bad hangovers with Mad Dog
That’s why I switched to Ripple.
He W2. I noticed a brother W3 ANG type at a ceremony yesterday wearing AG brass rather than the squashed bug. I understand warrants are now commissioned trash. Do you know if retirees continue to wear the squashed bug or do we revert to branch brass?
Sorry bro, USN.
Have made that flight many times in the mighty P-3 Orion. Jet lag exists flying both ways, but flying East is harder on the Circadian rhythm.
If I recall, the Air Force enforced a 1 day of crew rest for each time zone crossed policy. POTUS doesn’t have that luxury.
Any way, the Veterans Day Observance was attended by:
Fox News Link
“If I recall, the Air Force enforced a 1 day of crew rest for each time zone crossed policy. POTUS doesn’t have that luxury.”
Seriously?! LMAO! Hell, the USN would make you fly MORE flights for every time zone crossed.
One time we had a USAF MSgt flying with us. After the mission, I told him we had a “6 for an 8” the NEXT DAY.
He couldn’t believe it. “What? We’re gonna fly TOMORROW?!”
To his credit, he got on board and did a great job for us. Especially after we made him take out the pisser a couple of times.
Heh.
And I don’t know, but I’ve been told that time slows down in a P-3. Pretty sure Einstein proved it.
Time slows down on a P-3? I can testify that it sure does on a C-130.
Slows down? Sometimes it goes backwards!
Oh, yeah. Feeling like hammered dogshit after flying to Sig, getting checked in to billeting, getting unpacked, and finding your crew has a 0700 brief the next day.
Good times!
“Sometimes it goes backwards” Is that because the wings and motors are mounted wrong, and the sky lights are in the floor? ^grin^ (runs away with the plate of cookies)
No such rule in the Air Force. Or at least in the last 20 years. There is a limit of a 16 hour duty day with a basic crew and 24 hour duty day with an augmented crew (basically on extra pilot, and extra boom operator/load master). Then 12 hours off with an “opportunity for 8 hours of sleep.”
Probably a jet lagged memory from long ago, Cobra.
Thanks for the correction.
On November 11th, the President was in Europe visiting the American cemeteries and where more than 30,000 of the American war dead have been buried. November 11th commemorated to 100th anniversary of the armistice that stopped the guns of the War To End All Wars. It is both fitting and appropriate the American President visit the American dead where they lay on foreign soil, signifying that even 100 years later, we do not forget our own.
On a personal note –
When I was very young, I was bequeathed the engagement ring of a spinster great-great-aunt on her passing. Her young man went off to fight the Great War and never returned, and she wore that ring until the day she died. I was too young to ask, and now there is no one left alive to ask her young man’s name. It is comforting to think our President visited him. I pray he somehow knows his sacrifice is remembered both personally by a great-great-niece of the girl he loved and by the nation he loved. Though he is “Known But To God”, I pray he rests in peace.
That is very interesting.
I never knew any of my grandparents. 3 died in Ireland before I was born and the last was in Ireland and I never met her.
But I knew a German lady pretty much from the day I was born. She worked in the hospital where I entered the world and she just happened to be our next door neighbor.
As I grew up, she was the grandmother I never knew. I spent tons of time with her, in her dingy little apartment crawling with cats and choked with stuff…and I loved every minute of it.
She was in the same boat as your great-great-aunt. She had actually come to America before WW1 with her father, but returned to Germany to get married.
Unfortunately, WW1 intervened and her fiance went off to the Belgian trenches where he was unceremoniously vaporized. No body was ever found.
And she was stuck in Germany for the rest of the war, hating every second of it.
My “grandma” never married either. She never talked about this tragedy, but obviously it was an event that drove the remainder of her long life.
So sad.
Nice story. Thanks, Denise.
Thank you both, Ms Williams and M/C, for these personal stories.
I don’t know that the other fellow whining in the previous thread is entirely wrong… Folks here lost their shit when Obama had a Marine hold an umbrella over his head during the rain…. Trump decides he doesn’t have the extra time for a car ride and won’t go out in the rain and everyone is cool with it. If Obama had said he didn’t want to disrupt traffic for a five hour round trip by car to stand in the rain to honor soldiers and instead flew home you know he’d have been criticized by many on the right, and many here on this site. Pretending otherwise is simply lying to yourself. Trump dodged the draft until he couldn’t and then he managed to fail the physical and he gets a pass same as Dick Cheney. ( I know, I know….deferments aren’t really dodging, wink wink….except when they are, which a lot of spoiled rich boys seemed to be able to pull off when it suited them, again nothing wrong with hiding at home while your friends serve, just don’t pretend you’d have been a bad ass soldier decades later (I’m looking at you Nugent) because those of us who did serve know you’re full of shit) We all have our biases and we all have our allowances we make for those we like. Pointing out that Obama would have been treated differently than Trump under the same circumstance isn’t a bad thing. It reminds us we all need to be aware of our hypocrisies, because we all have them. In many ways left wing sites and right wing sites are eerily similar in their Pavlovian responses to the appropriate dog whistles. If one can separate one’s opinions from the fray and review the similarities honestly, it’s an eye opener. For me it’s a situation where one side these days can only win when the other side loses…neither side seems to be able to determine a course of action where we the people all win together and move the nation forward. So I vote for stagnation and gridlock in… Read more »
Solid comment. I don’t know that I have enough binkies to go around. Want to go in with me on a case?
I could scrounge up some decent money for several cases my friend….maybe a couple of counselors and some stress balls as well…
I would like to begin building a crying closet slash safe space.
For what it’s worth VOV, I do agree with everything you wrote.
Fine, except for one little thing, VOV.
The ceremony at Arlington National Ceremony was held on November 11, which is Veterans Day and has been every year for longer than I’ve been alive. It was NOT held on Monday, November 12. That is NOT Veterans Day. How many times do I have to say that before it sinks in.
Trump was in France at another ceremony, at the American cemetery at Suresnes. He went directly from there to Orly Airport and returned to Andrews at 6:40PM EST.
The ceremony at Arlington was broadcast when it happened on Sunday. Period. It did not happen on Monday. There was NO additional ceremony on Nov. 12.
What is so difficult to understand about that?
I never mentioned Arlington did I? Trump cancelled a trip north of Paris that involved setting a wreath at a site honoring American WW1 dead. That’s my point EX, had Obama bailed on that trip he’d have been criticized right on this page for doing exactly the same thing Trump did.
Why does Trump get a pass? We all know why. We’re lying if we pretend otherwise.
Make that a gross.
I would say, make it two.
But nothing is too gross for some people.
I don’t give him passes, VOV.
The cemetery north of Paris is in Normandy.
He was at the American cemetery in Suresnes for another ceremony on Sunday and then left directly for Orly Airport.
I’m a bit embarrassed to confess that I didn’t know until yesterday how many American cemeteries are in France. I knew of Normandy, of course, and Aisne-Marne, but I didn’t know about the others. Some history geek I am…
One of the current problems with the TV news media is that it tends to editorialize about everything instead of presenting circumstances and letting viewers reach their own conclusions. The Obama incident with the Marine and the umbrella is an example.
Personally, I always had a problem with it because of the context and body language. At one point, the President reaches over and adjusts the way the Marine is holding the umbrella without seeming to acknowledge the person inside the uniform. As if the Marines are mere stage props in the photo op.
In contrast, there’s a clip of President Trump boarding an aircraft when one of the Marine guards loses his cover in the wind. Trump scrambles to grab the cap, puts it back on the Marine’s head, and then pats the kid on the shoulder. The incident was obviously unscripted, and there was something very human about it. Not to mention the symbolism of a leader watching out for those he leads.
Trump might not be perfect, I happen to have a minor beef with him this morning over his reaction to the California fires, but it might also be important to remember who might have ended up being the alternative.
Good points Perry and I don’t disagree with you. Trump is and remains a better choice for me than the other options at the time.
My only point was that we are all of us hypocrites at some time or another in spite of our best efforts. We forgive those with whom we agree far more readily than those we don’t. That’s human nature. When we pretend there’s a difference when our side does it versus the other side, that’s the point for me where we lose credibility.
When you say it’s human nature, VOV, you are spot on. It’s merely a societal extension of the tendency of families to circle the wagons around an offending member. LEO’s who lurk here will recognize that as the all too familiar, “But he’s such a good boy,” whine from mothers, grandmothers and so forth in defending their criminal spawn.
While I was a strong proponent of Trump on this site back in 2016, it was, as you say, a realistic assessment of just how bad the alternative would be, not a full-throated, “Yeah, he’s my guy!” Trump always did and still does drive me up the wall far too frequently with some of the same behaviors that seem to endear him to others.
Because of that, my own hypocrisy tends to manifest itself quietly, by remaining silent when Trump offends my senses, because he is the leader of my political family, a team that is largely willing to forgive his bad behaviors because of his own willingness to stand up to the even more hypocritical liberal media and their Democrat allies.
Lastly, I fail to see the need for my own voiced criticism of Trump’s misdeeds when the media is constantly howling at his heels for every petty misstep and predictably sure to pounce viciously on issues like this current one. In contrast, I was a frequent poster of criticisms of Barack Obama, filling the silent void, so to speak, because of the absence of objectivity in the fawning liberal media, because no matter his offense, Barry always was to them, “Such a good boy.”
So please excuse my silence when Trump offends; you are correct that it is hypocrisy, but it is insignificant when compared to the raging hypocrisy of the Democrats and their media propagandists.
Wish I had written that. I add my Mea Culpa.
To be quite frank, I did not think he would be the right person for the job, because he sometimes displays the diplomacy of a pitbull.
BUT —
He deserves some credit for not letting the swampdwellers in WDC get out of the water, the way they’d like to, and for being able to pick good advisors, amongst the idiots he also chose.
Pretty much spot-on, VOV. I was talking with some friends yesterday regarding the Trump-Newsom spat over Trump’s suggestion that our fires this year can be attributed to poor land management. I granted that Trump’s timing, delivery, and whatnot could be described as douchey, but countered that being a douche doesn’t make what he said any less correct. And having spent my adult life (and later teenage years) dealing with California’s fires, I can say that for the most part, he’s absolutely right. This state sucks at land management. Not necessarily the state departments responsible for it, mind you, but the regulations and directives they get saddled with run contrary to doing their job right. You can see it in sharp relief by comparing timberlands owned by California State Parks and those of National Forests. The Forest Service lands are drought-stressed, but about as healthy as they can be. The Forest Service performs dozens of low-intensity VMP burns on each forest every year. This cleans out the understory without killing sound trees, eliminates fine dead fuels, and replenishes the soil to promote healthy new growth. In most Forests, logging permits are issued for old-growth stands for both thin-cutting and selective clear-cutting, with loggers also contracted to reseed clear cuts (the logging industry figured out the whole sustainability thing 100 years ago; it’s good for business). The Forest Service also issues firewood permits, allowing permittees to take any downed slash (no standing trees), which eliminates heavy dead fuels—my Dad, Grandpa, and I obtain our firewood each winter this way. All of these methods reduce the spread of diseases and destructive insects from tree to tree, greatly reducing (but not eliminating) tree mortality. The State Parks have long been “hands-off” and “let nature take its course.” In recent years, there have been a handful of VMP burns on some parks, but so many hoops have had to be jumped through that each small two-acre burn took three or four years to get off the ground. Even for private land, state regulations are a pain in the ass. Obviously, we can’t have people lighting… Read more »
Trump’s forest management comment/tweet on the California fires wasn’t so much wrong as it was simplistic. Both of the two largest fires were apparently caused by high-voltage power lines, for example, and both PG&E and SCE have had serious maintenance issues in the past. Remember a few years ago when an aging PG&E natural gas line blew up in San Bruno?
I wouldn’t agree Gavin Newsom is a two-faced sleaze because I’m not sure he’s that smart. It seems to me Newsom is more like a political Ken Doll; pull his string and he’ll say whatever the Progressive apparatchiks want him to say.
The origin of both fires appears to have been electric equipment. However, the severity of the Camp Fire and other incidents this season, including some I was on, can be fairly attributed to California’s mismanagement of wildlands. Much of the state is (or was, before it burned) covered in absolutely atrocious fuel loads, with huge dead components. This makes for very high-intensity fires and amplified the effects of the unfavorable fire weather. This was an avoidable condition for which responsibility lies with the state government. The very same democrat-dominated state government that taxes the shit out of Californians while crying that they can’t find fire protection or basic infrastructure maintenance (too busy blowing all that money on welfare for illegal aliens, a corrupt and ineffective school system that consistently underperforms, and bullet train project that’s a billion dollars over budget, a decade behind schedule, and nobody wanted anyway—but it’s made Newsom’s ain’t Dianne Feinstein a whole lot richer). I spent the first half of my career riding and later driving engines that were older than me. New fire apparatus is still something of a novelty for us. And don’t get me started on our staffing problems.
So while, as you say, Trump’s comment is a bit of an oversimplification (and douchey), it wasn’t wrong.
That’s an interesting analysis, TOW, and I wouldn’t disagree. It must be frustrating to be at ground zero with this stuff and listen to the spin. Something fairly disgusting is how the news media couldn’t wait to blame it all on climate change.
Also, you might be off just a bit on your cost overrun for the HSR. Estimates for Jerry’s choo-choo when the original bond was passed were for around $20 Billion total. They are now up to $100 Billion and climbing.
Perry, the idiots who blame forest fires on climate change seem to think that air temperature over a certain level (72F) results in spontaneous combustion. That is their mentality.
I believe that, in addition to the lack of clearing out underbrush, the real problem was the ongoing drought.
We have a problem where I live in that three parcels of unimproved land, which could be turned into housing, have not been cleared of buckthorn or honeysuckle in years, and the undergrowth is so thick you need a machete to get into it, never mind through it. If we have a drought here, the fire hazard will be severe, and yet the owner will not go in and clean out that trash undergrowth. If a fire starts here, it will travel uphill and my little house is in its path, along with all my neighbors. I know what TOW is talking about. I guess I’ll have to ask the village management to get the owner to clear that out or pay a fine.
Mark Twain wrote that “no mans property or money is safe while the congress is in session”.
VOV – I would agree with you that his decision not to go to the cemetery due to the bad weather causing a car ride rather than a helicopter ride was in poor form, if it was his decision. Further reading indicates that the Secret Service made the decision that a motorcade in Paris traffic was impossible on short notice.
Therefore, he sent his 4 Star Marine Chief of Staff who personally knows the cost of war and his Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who personally notified said Chief of Staff of the death of his son.
I think the warriors in the cemetery would just as soon be saluted by Gen. Kelly and Gen Dunford. Of course this is just my opinion.
Susan, I’ve no quarrel with any of what he did. My only point was we show hypocrisy for giving Trump a pass on a great many things we’d be slaughtering Obama over. And we should be able to accept that criticism of our hypocrisy might be spot on if we’re honest with ourselves. Poetrooper puts it pretty well in his reply and he’s an honest guy who admits to having some minor hypocrisies in his world view. When we pretend we aren’t being hypocritical it exposes our echo chamber as precisely that. We are all of us veterans with a variety of world, work, and life experience and as a consequence hold a variety of world views. I don’t expect us to be angels, but I’d like to think we’re at least honest about our own faults before we pound others for their faults.
“and won’t go out in the rain”
I suggest you ask a helicopter pilot how he/she feels about flying in rain and low visibility. I will bet they are cool with that decision, too.
As the saying goes; There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.
The full quote that you didn’t choose to put in quotation marks was this, “Trump decides he doesn’t have the extra time for a car ride and won’t go out in the rain”…
That turn of phrase is in response to the concern over a five hour car ride and motorcade, cars are still pretty safe on wet roads. Had Obama said he wouldn’t take a care ride to stand in the rain honoring vets this site would be all over that. That’s my point.
I’m quite aware of how weather grounds aircraft and I certainly get your point but it wasn’t my point at all.
And I do like your saying…I think I’ll be stealing that in the future.
VoV: Most of us understand that as flawed humans, we can actually do things which we do not generally approve of doing and may even try to keep the number of times we do that to a minimum. However, you are harping upon something about which there is only a tangential relationship.
I doubt seriously that Trump himself, and certainly not alone, made the decision to not make a journey which would be tedious at best and cause all sorts of problems, including serious security issues, at worst. Had the headline and/or lead in had any other president being credited with making that decision, I would have the same doubt.
I saw the Rose Garden incident with my own eyes. Nobody told me about it. I was watching it in real time in its entirety. No cutting, pasting, editing, opinions of others involved. No third hand telling of the tale. It was real and my reaction was to an event as it was occurring. No, I am not a hypocrite for reacting negatively to what happened that day. It was horrid optic, that time for Obama. I didn’t like it at all and would not have liked it no matter who was at the podium handing an umbrella to the Marine.
Righteous indignation is OK from time to time. Getting all up in arms about things just because it’s Wednesday isn’t.
But if your point is simply to be careful about being hypocritical about stuff, I can whole heartedly agree with you. I might add to also be careful what items we compare with each other. In this case, the only similarity between the two events for me are that they both involved sitting presidents. One involved something I saw occur while the other happened entirely behind the scenes with people reporting the event who had limited information about what did happen.
Apologies to all if the horse already died ad I am now beating it after everyone else left to get the shovels to bury the poor thing.
OWB, the other guy in the other post is kind of an asshole…so am I from time to time….I get that. Consequently when he posts, his history gets in the picture as well, probably as it should.
This line of yours, “But if your point is simply to be careful about being hypocritical about stuff, I can whole heartedly agree with you. ” is my point, articulated in my usual long winded fashion for which I apologize as well.
I’ve written many times that I respect the words of everyone here, especially in disagreement.
The premise of this site is exposing liars, consequently for me it’s important that we ourselves are honest about what we are and why we act as we do at times. When we give our guys a pass, which again everyone does to some degree, we need to be honest about the distinction and the difference in treatment. It’s not always because our side is better, or holds a higher moral ground, it’s quite often simply because it’s our guy. That’s okay too as long as we don’t pretend it is not a bit hypocritical at times..can’t criticize the other guys for stuff we do if we aren’t at least honest about what we are doing. So thank you for getting my point…appreciate the feedback as always.
And fuck it, if we can’t beat a dead horse who will I ask you, who will?
Oops. Sorry.
Still, an impromptu five hour car ride (in addition to the ceremony) seems a bit much, rain or shine. And I, for one, would not have bashed Obama for doing the same.
It’s not my saying, by the way. I stole it years ago. I suspect one of the Wright bros. said it first.
It’s all good timactual…
Maybe you should check Cheney’s birth year and when he got married before you run your mouth?
Honestly I’m tired of listening to people argue over who dodged the draft and who didn’t. The war ended over 40 years ago. Our significant participation was over 45 years ago. What’s the point of arguing about it by now? Kerry & Trump are some of the very few politicians old enough to be eligible for service in Vietnam in the first place. Most Vietnam-era vets are retired. We’re almost 1/5th through this century. Can we please focus on the present once in a while?
Thanks for making me laugh…Cheney took four 2-s deferments and then 22 days after Congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin resolution he got married…then miraculously exactly nine months after he was classified again as 1-A his wife had a kid…
But yeah, I’m the guy running my mouth…Cheney was another bad ass wannabe just like Nugent…two guys talking about being tough guy patriots long after they did everything they could to avoid serving…at least Nugent didn’t shoot a friend in the face hunting birds in a preserve….
“then miraculously exactly nine months after he was classified again as 1-A his wife had a kid…”
I missed the Second Coming?!?! Why wasn’t I told?
On the bright side, at least Cheney et al. think patriotism is a good thing, as opposed to their political opponents.
Just for giggles, a link to the effect of marriage and fatherhood on the draft;
https://www.sss.gov/About/History-And-Records/Effects
Sh-WACK!
I would pay big bucks for a ride in the Tardis.
The TARDIS (/ˈtɑːrdɪs/; “Time And Relative Dimension In Space” is a fictional time machine and spacecraft that appears in the British science fiction television programme Doctor Who and its various spin-offs.
Had to look it up. The def is for anyone else who said, “A what?”
The test run on the time machine that I just built can take you 4 hours into the future in 240 minutes.
It works! It just takes a while to warm up.
It’s a phone booth.
All you need is dime.
You nearly had me there–until I realized that English phone booths take dimes.
Yeah, “don’t” changes things a bit. Hey, I got changes and bit in there!
memorial day is for the dead. Veterans day is for the living and Hungover Marines. it is also on November 11 because after the US Marines single Handedly won the first WW after the Army, france and england kept playing tiddlywinks with artillery and gas, they decided to smack some Huns around and get back home. See Those China Marines, those Teufel Hunden knew how hard it was going to work the next day after a good USMC Birthday ball having done so the night before Armistice so they made sure that no future Marine would ever had too by ending the war at the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month…
That’s the best war story I’ve heard in a while!
anyone would willing surrender rather then fight a division of hungover Marines…. i am going to have to repost this i think…
I’ve often thought it might be a good idea for the president to let VP or Sec Def handle Arlington Ceremony nd he should make a point of another cemetery at Punchbowl, Fort Rosecrans, etc. There are cemeteries all over this country.
@Ex-PH2
Yes, guilty. But not of ignorance of dates or history but simply posting at the wrong time.
I take drugs that can affect cognition and judgement due to conditions incurred during active duty and for which I was medically retired.
My error was conflating holiday and ceremony and posting in reply to you.
As I don’t drink alcohol I don’t have the excuse of being drunk – simply an extra dose of legally prescribed meds due to having a very physically bad day.
Having done a great long time in the US Army, I know when Veterans Day is. Not ignorant of the day at all, as I spend it at national cemeteries when I can.
The Fox article I linked to made the point I was trying to make and that was trump could have gone to Arlington National Cemetery during the holiday weekend which extended through Monday but did not.
Blog member “Green Thumb” read my post and clearly understood what I was referring to.
You said repeatedly this morning that I was wrong.
Incredibly stupidly wrong.
Still, that was not enough. You felt somehow motivated to get on a pulpit and shriek to the heavens – wrong, wrong -stupid, ignorant..
Do you ever wonder what motivated this post?
It seems to be a large over reaction to a series of posts last night THROUGH this morning.
While I’m somewhat more clear headed this morning
I keep thinking – holy shit, this is off the rails over reaction to what I posted last night.
CUTTING OFF HERE AS i HAVE LOST MY LAST TWO ATTEMPTS TO RESPOND
I went to an article written by someone named de Santis who wrote it for Fox News.
He said that Veterans Day was going to be observed on Monday, November 12, which is completely not true. There was no such thing planned and never has been.
The ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery was held on November 11, which is Veterans Day.
Pres. Trump was on his way back to the USA AFTER attending a memorial ceremony in France. There is no way on God’s green earth that he could possibly have been in the USA in time to the attend the ceremony at Arlington, because it started at 2:45AM in French time. How was he supposed to be there? Tell me. I’m curious.
It bad enough that you did not bother to look at other resources, but you blame others for your mistake.
November 11 is, and always has been Armistice Day and subsequently, Veterans Day and is ALWAYS observed on November 11. De Santis is wrong. You just didn’t bother to look further, like watching it on TV. it was broadcast on C-Span, which is available online.
@Ex-PH2
Yup,
Already admitted this and explained why.
Despite my posting that I was wrong and the reason why, you continue to make a personal attack and try to pile on:
You – “It bad enough that you did not bother to look at other resources, but you blame others for your mistake.”
Me – I am not “blaming” anyone for what I posted. I’ve not tried to assign responsibility for that either.
I don’t drive when I have meds in me. Normally I don’t post then either. I got confused while I was tired and I posted a mistake.
Since you apparently want to make this a judgmental and at the point overly vindictive discussion – have at it.
Obstinate persons with a superiority complex will go on to have their own way. I normally ignore them and move on.
I’ve witnessed you repeated pound on someone on this blog just because you can, and it reflects on you and in my view weakens the appearance of the blog.
I think the needless name calling and demonizing you do here is a disservice and turns the blog into more of an echo chamber.
I’ve heard your opinion. that’s mine.
The real problem with this past weekend is not the lack of information about where TGrump was/was not, did or didn’t do.
It’s that the Fox News piece says he didn’t observe Veterans Day by going to a non-existent ceremony at Arlington on Monday.
The ceremony was planned for and took place on November 11. There was nothing planned for November 12.
The author of that article ignored that and is far more at fault than you, so I apologize for being so cranky about this toward you.
I regret that our disagreement caused so much rancor and thank you for apology. I certainly am at fault too.
All I can do is try to be more thoughtful going forward about what and when I post.
Good night
“the point I was trying to make and that was trump could have gone to Arlington National Cemetery during the holiday weekend ”
Top, I can agree with that sentiment, but I think on the centenary of the armistice his being in France at our cemeteries there was the better venue for our President.
He theoretically could have also passed through Arlington, but he can’t be in two places at once. He also can’t spend his whole life going to ceremonies, especially when they’re continents apart.
I expect a president to make an appropriate appearance on Veteran’s Day. I think he did this year, and in the appropriate place. Am I happy he skipped out of the wreath laying for rain while he was over there? No.
@Mason
I agree that missing the wreath laying for rain was a disappointment.
Regrettably, I suppose that is what motivated the whole discussion about Arlington.
Regards
Veterans Day happens every year. The 100th anniversary of armistice day happens once. I agree with Trump’s priority.
OK. You both made valid points about the centenary ceremony.
Appreciate your input in the discussion.
Moving on …
I’ve avoided this blog for some time for a couple of reasons.
I understand that there has been a tremendous loss because we no longer have the wonderful influence of the blog founder, Jonn.
I get that there are issues behind the scenes that affect what gets posted.
I also acknowledge that many people are trying hard to move forward to keep the blog community intact and are doing so on their own time and effort.
So while I wonder at why some stories are posted, I’ve never insulted or derided the posters or commentators, realizing this is a community of veterans – persons who answered a call to duty and love their country – and above all deserve respect.
(breaking into bits because I keep losing posts)
In an attempt to support this blog I have volunteered to assist in vetting stolen valor cases (in response to a request Dave Hardin made some time ago), and have also submitted story suggestions that I thought would be of interest to the veteran community at large.
In the past I was in communication with Jonn about support and possible group meet-ups.
Whether for legal reasons or personnel staffing reasons, the amount of stolen valor content diminished.
The pressure to fill the blog with entries has resulted in some content that has left me scratching my head. Yet I know the goal is to keep a blog engaging and kept the posts frequent enough to have members engaged.
But there seems to me, at least, an increase in stridency and incivility that sharpened and lowered the quality of discourse over the past few months.
Maybe I’ve become more of a snowflake, but I doubt it – by my unofficial and infrequent count it seems the number of comments for most posts is lower than before. My guess is less people feel like contributing when they see some posts and posters insulted, labelled and name called.
You know where the door is.
Post something negative so I should shut up and go away?
I read and grew to care about this place.
I posted about how I see this place has changed. Yeah, I know where the door is.
I’s a shame if I choose to use it.
That was uncalled for, Usafvet509. Back it off a bit.
Amazing that the lame street media left out the kind of shoes and hat the First Lady was wearing during Veterans day.
Is this horse dead yet?
I would think so after the beating its gotten the last two days.
JMO
I’m done. Overdone, that’s been the most I’ve written in a while, as you can probably tell. 🙂
Yes, your comments are competing with those of “LC” in verbosity and lack of veracity. He liked to rely on erroneous news reports, as well.
I’ll bite.
Verbosity – I was trying to be clear and explain myself. You don’t like it, don’t read my comments.
Lack of veracity – as far as I know, I have not lied.
you – “He liked to rely on erroneous news reports, as well.”
If you really want to carry this on, name one other case where I have cited an erroneous source.
I respect US Army Rangers, but you can help change that.
How could I? You don’t even know if I was an Army Ranger. Maybe “rgr” stands for “roger.” And like “LC” I don’t read most of your “prose.”
For what it’s worth, I think you’re getting the shitty end of the stick, old98z. Yes, what you’ve noticed about TAH is shared by everyone who has been around here for a while. We all see that it isn’t the same place and we all see that it will never be again. Some folks are conspicuously absent and others mistake this for a personal blog. I don’t have answers, but I do know that, for as long as we this place remains up, we are TAH. Stick around. Been a lot of short fuses lately.
@2/17 Air Cav
Thanks, succinctly stated.
I’ve tried to not go negative while hoping for the best for this blog.
I appreciate your comment.
But I think Military Phonies and Guardians of Valor/Green Beret deserve more time now.
I forgot to add this quote:
“When someone show you their character, believe them.”
Regards
The only way not to rely on erroneous news reports is to avoid the “news” altogether.
Veracity? I’ll bite, too. What untruths did he write? Intentional, that is. We all make mistakes.
On this holiday weekend (OK, I’ve kinda lost track of the exact time and date due to ingestion of meds for sniffles) things seem to have deteriorated. A few obsevations which nobody is required to read much less heed:
TAH is a bunch of flawed folks who somehow manage to act an awful lot like a family. We had a serious loss this year and continue to show the signs of struggling with that loss.
Bobody’s nerfect.
So, can we just move along? Mistakes have been made. Apologies have been made. Tempers have flared. Some may just need to agree to disagree. If everyone concerned is as mature as I prefer to believe we all are around here, recovery is certainly possible and I, for one, expect just that.
If anyone is looking for an excuse to leave this community, it is simply a matter of time before one will find an excuse to do so. If, however, anyone is looking for a reason to stay here, we are still the same bunch of misfits we have always been and continue to see this as our “safe place,” the space we can use to vent our frustrations, show our ass occasionally, and can count on the rest of the bunch to rein us in when we are wrong. Which we all are at least occasionally, if not regularly.
Form up! Dress right, dress! Parade rest…
Will somebody heat up my hot toddy? This one got cold.
Well said, OWB.
Now, about that hot toddy.
Best I can do is offer you a cup of hot, dark roasted, freshly ground beans coffee.
Been a bit over 25 years that I put the alcohol thing down. Not because I had a drinking problem, I just chose to stop.
If I had one adult beverage, I would probably start dancing on the tables and singing. While it might be a source of cheap amusement for my fellow dickweeds here at TAH, it would not be a pretty sight. (smile)
Ditto. If you kids don’t settle down back there, you are not gonna be happy if I have to pull this car over to the side of the road. If I have to whup every one of you to get to the guilty party I will.
We think we have problems?
“They took away our staplers in Macho Grande. Not to mention our move to the basement. To this day I have a drinking problem.”
BAM. The comment that will go go down in infamy. I knew you’d do it.
I’ll never be over over Macho Grande….
Ex-PH2 I appreciate your follow up on news events like this. Many thanks for your diligence