GAO: Navy Collisions resulted from overstretched force
Chief Tango sends an article from Federal News Radio which reports that the Government Accountability Office claims that recent collisions and other incidents are the result of an overstretched Naval force which lacks time for proper training;
Within the 7th Fleet, 37 percent of the warfare certifications required for cruisers, destroyers and their crews were expired as of June, the same month in which the USS Fitzgerald collided with a container vessel. Of those, more than two-thirds had been expired for five months or more.
The figures represented a dramatic increase from just two years before, when only 7 percent of the certifications were expired.
John Pendleton, director for force structure and readiness issues at GAO, said part of the problem is that Navy vessels that are permanently forward-deployed at overseas bases have fewer opportunities for crew training and regular maintenance, an issue GAO has been warning about since at least the summer of 2015.
“We were told at that point that the overseas ships were so busy that they had to train ‘on the margins,’ a term I had not heard before,” Pendleton said. “It was explained to me that they had to squeeze training in when they could. Given our concerns, we recommended to the Navy that it carefully analyze the risks that were mounting, especially given the plans to increase overseas basing in the future.”
That sounds like an NCO/time management problem to me. Even during the Carter years when troops had absolutely no money for training, our NCOs insured that training happened “on the margins” or otherwise. Granted that we weren’t driving city-sized boats around the ocean, but, you know, we still trained while the Soviets were stationing combat brigades in Cuba and invading Afghanistan. We knew that Carter hated us, but we still had to survive the next war.
Even during the Clinton years, NCOs still trained the trained the troops who were constantly deployed on “meals on wheels” missions, while JRTC was focused on humanitarian operations, the troops were still ready for operations in Afghanistan and Iraq in the following decade.
The Navy’s NCOs need to get control of that situation, while naval officers are doing their best to feather their own nests as evidenced by the number of officers currently awaiting punishment for their peccadilloes.
Category: Navy
During Chiefs Initiation we were reminded to take care of the troops. Since the O-Bangers are taking care of themselves the senior enlisteds need to step in, NOW.
Once MCPOON West sold out to the wardroom and made initiation a joke we have a bunch (not all) of 1st classes in Kahki who are still all about themselves and not the mess.
Couple that with the I have to throw someone under the bus least I get fired mentality does not give much slack for mistakes.
E-9 Rick (THE DICK) West sole the CPO community out when he did away with initiation/season of pride.
Yes, he is an E-9 in my and other CPO’s eyes for what he did….
There’s no more initiation at ALL?!
Sad, so sad.
Initiation could be a pain in the ass, but once we finally understood that it was OUR initiation and to have fun with it, we had a great time messing with the goat locker. They had fun too.
Good times. Sad that they’re gone. And it really was the glue that joined all CPOs to each other.
I made it to O-4, but making Chief was the proudest moment of my entire career. Bar none.
Thought they reinstated initiation this year…the USASOC slugs came by my office already for introductions.
Been too busy to do much in the way of festivities though.
just double checked…it’s on baybee.
..troughs included 🙂
Army guy question. What is an O-Banger?
O-Banger = O-Ganger = Officer.
A play on A-Ganger, which is a slang term for enlisteds in the ship’s Auxiliaries Division.
Thank you Butch.
I will say this again, the cause of the series of collisions:
Leadership Failures & Departure from Training on the Basics
That is all.
Nothing further.
Carry on.
That is what I thought though I know not about Navy things. It’s not like, “hey my certificate ran out last month, I don’t know how to do my job anymore.”
The main problem’s are time and manpower.
If your division (work shop) takes a hit every time someone takes leave, you are too short staffed.
If all your people are always busy, they are training for lowest training point. That means the cert. was the lowest point. And everyone is too busy to drill to be better than the cert..
This is what happens what to put the exact amount of people on a ship you need and no more. They have no slack for the people learning the job or for battle damage.
My 2 cent.
Don’t forget the shortcut training. Someone decides that ‘this way is so much easier and faster’ and that becomes SOP even though it’s not the right way to do it.
Subs have annual certifications such as ORSE(Operational Reactor Safety Exam) or Weapon System Exams. Drills are run to check crew readiness and crew members are randomly chosen to answer questions by Squadron to see if the crew is properly trained.
Failure by any of these exams can get a CO relieved or a month of intensive training for the entire crew.
Damn straight on that one, Master Blaster!
I would agree Jonn. Though I’d say that “reducing the force” and “making it more agile” definitely doesn’t help.
Sounds like the GAO is pushing for that DoD bigger budget too.
I agree with the posts comments here. It started back in 1991 when they military started the force reduction and wouldn’t let the experienced personnel stay in. Since then its been a downwards spiral.
And the Navy tells people they’re too old. Geezo Pete, the “too old people” are badly needed rightthisveryminuteyesterday.
You can’t replace experience with screens and power point presentations.
Ex-PH2 I think that is a cross branch solution you have there. Some old warriors from all branches, let loose and told to get the force in shape could do so, if their hands were not tied to their nut sacks. In the late 60’s when I went in the Army, I heard more foul language in my ear, up close and personal than I ever imagine existed. Didn’t hurt me any and made me a heads up, prepared and situation aware troop.
Why has no one mentioned that the civilians (including the GAO, president, SecDef, SecNav, etc.) have reduced the funding to all military at the same time they have increased the tasking. Politicians want it both ways, they want to shift money do domestic (vote getting)spending and still respond militarily to an increasingly hostile world.
To those who say that training in the margins should be done, I say, what margins? Exhausted crew needs sleep before training or you will see more injuries and deaths. 12 to 16+ hour days, working the flight deck and you are wiped out. No meaningful training can be accomplished under arduous at sea duty in the margins. Either reduce the tasking so some time can be taken for good training or live with what has been going on.
I was just an ordinary enlisted soldier in the United States Army, so I know absolutely nothing about being a sailor in the United States Navy.
I don’t understand what lack of training or certification, or even lack of sleep has to do with ships at sea colliding with each other, especially a United States Navy warship, which has the capability of instantly taking evasive action, and if necessary, even opening fire on an approaching vessel posing a possible threat.
If I understand it correctly, there’s more than one sailor on duty steering that ship, and there are windows on the bridge that they can see out of, and ships have navigational running lights to make themselves more visible.
So, what is going on?
Regardless of whether someone else is properly operating a radar, sonar, radio, or other high technology electronic device, the guys on the bridge can SEE the approaching vessel, can’t they?
Hi. I’m a civvie, so I know even less than you do. But there are two things I do know about: sailing, and training. Yeah, sailing. I’m a (trained, certified) civilian yachtsman. I can single-hand a dinghy, or take you cruising on a 100 foot schooner. Granted, these are a lot smaller than a frigate, but a lot of the principles do translate. It turns out that the size of the vessel matters hugely to its handling, because of factors such as momentum. It doesn’t matter how nimble you think your massive steel thing is, it isn’t nearly as nimble as a jetski. It also takes hands-on familiarisation, and there are a lot of subtle details that you will only really understand once you are doing them. The other side, that I get from being involved in commercial training: one of the key reports that apparently came back was that about six years ago, in a cost-cutting measure, instead of doing hands-on, instructor-led training, they went video-based. Supposedly they handed new ensigns a stack of CDs (twenty or so? I forget the details) and told them to watch those on their own time. The idea was that their practical skills would have been honed under the watchful eyes of old hands who knew the score. At first, it kind of worked OK, but by now, what with turnover and the pressures of demands on the water, the old hands are the ones who learned by CD. Key skills are growing rusty on an institutional level as a result of cost-cutting measures. Result? Exactly what anyone in the world of training would expect; reduced efficiency and atrophied practical skills. In the real world, you don’t get to take the wheel of a 50 foot ketch until you’ve manned a dinghy, and you don’t get to do that until you’ve sat on shore with a certified skipper watching you tie knots, and you don’t even bother with that until the skipper has given you the vocabulary of a vessel. A lot of this has simply been sidelined by the USN (or more… Read more »
@ JAN KOEKEPAN:
Thank you for that explanation.
It makes sense.
If you don’t understand what lack of sleep has to do with training put it in your own lane. Do you want unrested soldiers on the line with weapons and explosives? And nothing that weight 10,000 tons (or 10 times that much) does anything instantly.
I wonder if the Navy is having the same problem we have in the Army. Excessive reactionary “mandatory training”.
Combat training gets pushed back because of all the need to take time to get all the mandatory individual training – Sexual Harassment, SHARP, EO, EEO, HIV awareness, Hate Group training, AT level 1, DTS, GOVCC, etc.
Commanders get pressured to be 100% on this, and they accept 80% on weapons qualification, or STX Lanes.
(that and it seems to be breading a “culture of dishonesty” in the Army. http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA615274 “Lying to ourselves:Dishonesty in the Army Profession)
There was too much of that bullshit going on 20 years ago.
I don’t even want to think about now.
Don’t forget about the latest add to mandatory training, “Transgender Sensitivity” for 100% of every unit’s personnel. (For all of maybe 500 of them in the Army right now, out of about 1 million Army personnel.)
Whoa. That was amazing.
From your link:
“We begin by analyzing the flood of requirements
experienced by military leaders and show that the
military as an institution has created an environment
where it is literally impossible to execute to standard
all that is required. At the same time, reporting noncompliance
with the requirements is seldom a viable
option. As a result, the conditions are set where subordinates
and units are often forced to determine which
requirements will actually be done to standard and
which will only be reported as done to standard. We
continue by examining the effect on individuals and
analyze how ethical fading and rationalizing allow
individuals to convince themselves that their honor
and integrity are intact despite ethical compromise.
We conclude by recommending open professional
dialogue on the phenomenon, institutional restraint in
the proliferation of requirements, and the acceptance
of risk in leading truthfully at all levels.”
one of the most important videos I have ever watched…I knew intuitively we were required to lie to superiors, and I even knew it was systemic….
But I was surprised by the attitudes of the GO/FO crowd. I should not have been…but I was.
The truth is that power doesn’t come from regulations, it comes from making people lie about things and compromising their integrity on a daily basis. It becomes death by 10,000 paper cuts.
Having completely compromised the integrity of the top leaders, the politicos now have absolute power over the entire military.
That scares the hell out of me…a military designed only for nepotism and careerism of the acceptable cronies….much like civil service.
Top,
Thanks for the link! I will check this out during my lunch hour today.
My service was ALL in the National Guard or Army Reserve. I also saw the increase in the Mandatory Training topics that had nothing to do with being a tanker, cavalryman, or “supposed commander” of Drill Sergeants. We seemed to be moving towards using the drill weekends to checkbox the mandatory training/inspections/staff assistance visits and somehow pulling our crap into a stack during AT.
Im afraid I am a dinosaur in that while I don’t expect soldiers to be complete and total barbarians, we are not exactly angels either. Pretty/nice boys don’t win wars.
I wondered if this might be a causitive factor. Barak Obama and his SECDEFs have blood on their hands.
It goes back further than that.
It just accelerated over the past 8 years.
As long as their have their diversity and LBQT training completed, they should be ready to deploy.
That’s sums it up too
Well, I have to maintain a certification and continue passing tests every year to drive my 16-ton GVW fire engine. Why aren’t the guys driving 10,000-ton guided-missile destroyers getting the same thing? Can we at least trust that the lads and lassies driving 105,000-ton nuclear-powered aircraft carriers are maintaining all the necessary certs?
No. Sorry.
out
I spent 5 years at HQMC studying things. One was the effectiveness of a 600 man battalion vs a 700 man battalion. At the ‘briefing of the heavies’ I happened to mention to the guy next to me that one thing 600 men could not do that 700 could—sustain as many casualties and keep going. My whisper was too loud. Well that was not the ‘party line’ and did I ever find that out! From then on I found out what ‘they’ wanted before I submitted my work, I really did not want to get on their shit lists. When the hierarchy wants to get promoted you had better help or at least not hinder the effort.
I am not as dumb as I look and neither were most of the other briefers in the room. It paid to go along and most of us did from then on. Can you imagine how many ‘false’ studies were done? My briefing load insofar as quantity, level and importance took a significant dive.
And the dishonesty becomes endemic. It will, it has, it is. Periodically we kill a few good men, make a mess, investigate, do a rug dance on some poor jerk (colatteral damage, poor Joe had a lot of promise but no more) and it all starts over. Our armed forces look just a little less professional.
Too bad, too, because we have the finest and they deserve to be the finest. They should not suffer because of a hierarchy of self-engrandizement. But they will.
That you were silenced for pointing out an -essential- fact is disgraceful.
I get the impression that our 280 ship Navy is staffed for about 200 ships, and tasked for about 500. The whole “more admirals than ships” thing is -insane-. If one studied the jobs of all the support stuff, one would probably find that 1/2 those “admiral” positions could be done quite well by competent Captains, and possibly by high-speed Commanders.
Sadly, the Army probably has a surplus of “general” slots that could be filled by able LTCs.
Un-futzing this mess is going to take a decade or two, presuming we get started before the rot goes clear through.
You hit it on the head
Way to top heavy
From what I understand, it’s a training AND sleep deprivation issue.
Not only are the basics not up to date (the certs), but the watch standers are severely sleep deprived by being undermanned an how the watch schedules are being worked. To the point of 4 hours of sleep in 36 sort of things.
So, now you have folks who aren’t as sharp as they should be fuzzed up even more being asked to make highly critical decisions.
I was an airborne infantryman back in the mid/late 90s, so being that crispy wasn’t too dangerous, but I saw the effects first hand with injuries and what not. Now, expand those effects to an X-ton warship that doesn’t stop on a dime interacting with a ship that X(3)-ton merchie and you can see how things can get very bad very fast.
I see it as a result of what began in the early nineties when the Clinton Curse happened, more political correctness sessions than Combat Training as well as chasing away the Old School types that knew how to do things right. How many of today’s Commanders put a higher priority on making sure everybody has their EEO, SHARP, and all the other PC bullshit sessions over what they really need to do their jobs?
A very cogent article from the author of “Turn Your Ship Around”:
http://ow.ly/jtq330fbtpE