Secretary of Defense statement on Presidential Memo

| August 30, 2017

The Secretary of Defense James Mattis issued a statement on the Presidential Memorandum signed last week in regards to “Military Service by Transgender Individuals.”

Basically, he saluted and moved out smartly, continuing to allow transgender members of the uniformed service to serve until he completely investigates the issue;

I will establish a panel of experts serving within the Departments of Defense and Homeland Security to provide advice and recommendations on the implementation of the president’s direction. Panel members will bring mature experience, most notably in combat and deployed operations, and seasoned judgment to this task. The panel will assemble and thoroughly analyze all pertinent data, quantifiable and non-quantifiable. Further information on the panel will be forthcoming.

Once the panel reports its recommendations and following my consultation with the secretary of Homeland Security, I will provide my advice to the president concerning implementation of his policy direction. In the interim, current policy with respect to currently serving members will remain in place.

Secretary Mattis emphasizes that the main mission of the Department of Defense remains the “military’s combat effectiveness leading to victory on the battlefield”.

Category: Big Pentagon

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Silentium Est Aureum

And yet the lefties are already fapping themselves silly, thinking Sec. Mattis gave Trump the finger, and taking bets on how soon before Mattis gets fired.

Uh, yeah. No.

Jonp

No No No

Mattis gave Trump the finger and dared him to step into the octagon. Thats what the MSM is reporting.

Again we are reminded that competent adults are back in charge not children do stuff at the drop of a hat cause they wanna

A Proud Infidel®™

The lefties having their pantyhose in a perpetual wad means one thing to me about SECDEF Mattis, he’s doing the job without giving even the tiniest flying ratfuck about political correctness! 😀

Commissar

That is not how the left sees what Sec Mattis is doing.

They see it as Trump made a decision for political reasons. And Mattis has decided not to act on it until he investigates and then returns to the president with more sound advice on how to proceed.

Jus Bill

But again, nobody in charge of this gives a flying f what the left thinks.

Commissar

Actually that is flat false. The politics of this is hurting Trump right now.

Thunderstixx

Bull shit…..

IDC SARC

“The politics of this is hurting Trump right now.”

Especially among the people that said he had no chance of winning the election in the first place. lol

FuzeVT

“the people that said he had no chance of winning the election in the first place”

And that’s just about EVERYONE except for Rush Limbaugh and Scott Adams of Dilbert.

To Commissar’s point of “The politics of this is hurting Trump right now” He is exactly correct. The only problem that I see is that it is the Republicans (by and large) that are the political obstructionists. They were so sure the Hildebeast was going to win, they never even entertained the fact that they would actually have to come through with their promises. Now they have the House, the Senate and a more than willing President and they can’t do what a) they promised and b) what Trump was elected to do?

I don’t blame Democrats – they are doing what is in nature. I don’t pet rattlesnakes for the same reason.

I do blame the worthless Republicans – A LOT. I guess they are doing what is in their nature, too, we just didn’t know what their nature truly was until now. Their bluff has been called and it would seem they have no desire to do the exact things they campaigned on/promised to do.

Republicans frigging suck worse than Democrats, the traitorous louts. [I will leave that ambiguously phrased.]

One last point. Conservatives have the press, entertainment media, and most importantly, the education system arrayed against them. With all of that opposition, Obama still was resisted, the Republicans hold more offices than just about ever and Trump won SAYING WHAT HE SAID. Just think of what we could accomplish if the Republican party were as animated, unified, and motivated in moving their platform forward as the Democrats.

I’ve always envied the Dems for that.

desert

Now the lowest maggot in the pile decides he KNOWS how ALL the left think…isn’t this p.o.s. precious tho?

IDC SARC

**Genuflecting**

26Limabeans

followed by a smart salute and an about face.

IDC SARC

I’m retired….I only salute the National Anthem/US Flag.

The Other Whitey

It’s the thought that counts.

HT3 '83-'87

I trust Gen. Mattis to do what’s best for our military free of political pressures, and I’ll restate what I would do:

DQ trans individuals from entering service.
Allow those now serving to continue to serve conforming to physical, grooming, uniform and berthing standards of their birth gender.
Trans individuals unwilling to serve under said conditions will receive honorable discharges (if other wise eligible) and all entitle benefits.
The problem solves itself as the non-hackers leave the service…BOOM! The problem is solved.

Silentium Est Aureum

Why do I get the feeling that’s exactly what will happen?

Jonp

General Discharge at best. If your unwilling to serve as told and follow orderes your not entitled to an honorable. Actually, if you just insist you are the opposite sex and cant serve unless you play dress up a medical discharge is in order

Jus Bill

Concur. Reasonable alternatives for all.

Yef

I don’t think so.

For 8 years the SJW and their allies gave us the finger.

Time to fight back.

Why can they get away with whatever crazy stupid shit they want and we can’t?

Time to strike back.

Ex-PH2

Too soon perhaps. Or would you stand on the steps of a building and yell this at them:

All the contagion of the left light on you, you shames of America! You herd of boils and plagues! Plaster you over, that you may be abhorred further than seen and one infect another against the wind a mile! You souls of geese, that bear the shapes of men, how have you run from slaves that apes would beat!

Ya think that would stir things up a bit? Use a bullhorn, shout at them as they run away. I don’t think they would really hold up very well.

Nonni

Such a reasonable solution probably won’t fly, but I agree completely!

Ex-PH2

And the emphasis is on “currently serving”, as is only appropriate.

As others have noted before me, there is no right to serve in the military. Since we no longer have a draft, there is no obligation to serve.

However, I do think that if real equality is a goal, women should meet the same requirement as men, and register with Selective Service. Period.

26Limabeans

Oh geeeses. Now you opened a whole new can- o- worms. Do transgenders have to register with the selective service? I’m serious.

IDC SARC

That’s probably the kind of stuff they’ll iron out in the review.

Ex-PH2

I’m serious, too. Everybody. Period. End of story.

26Limabeans

Concur

Jonp

+1

Either you believe in equity or not

MSG Eric

Everybody should register with selective service. Its purpose in a total mobilization would provide personnel for anything and everything, whether that’s in the military or in an industrial building making bullets.

In its current status, Selective Service is discriminatory to males because women are serving in combat arms roles, which is the ONLY reason they state that just men are required to register and not women.

You could argue that it is discriminatory to transgenders at some point as well, if they are allowed to serve. But then, that’ll be another thing that the SJWs won’t be jumping up and down to fight for, same as women’s equality.

timactual

“In its current status, Selective Service is discriminatory to males…”

Indeed. That is why we should settle the arguments now, before Selective Service becomes necessary. You can bet your favorite body part(s) that someone will sue and the whole thing will become a clustermess just when we need disruption least.

Ex-PH2

Agreed. Settle it now, change ‘men’ to ‘all humans’, and leave it at that.

Hondo

I concur with your analysis, Jonn.

As you note, what the SECDEF did was essentially say, “Got it, boss. I’ll also convene a blue-ribbon panel and figure out the best way to handle those transgenders who have been allowed to enter the military since June 2016 and get back to you on that. Until then, they’ll continue to fulfill their contractual service obligations.”

It’s entirely possible IMO that the SECDEF’s panel will find that being transgender is disqualifying for continued military service entirely, due to the excessive (on the order of 40%) suicide rate alone. There’s ample precedent based on the fact that exactly the same is true for many other chronic medical conditions.

The media is grasping at straws here, and is badly misreading the SECDEF’s statement.

HT2 "79 - 91" with combat action

Hold everyone in any group/class of people for what only some do is just plain dumb. Under your statement the No white males should be allowed to serve since they have the highest rate of suicide in the U.S.A try looking up class of people with highest suicide rate.
Suicide Statistics — AFSP [https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/_green]
https://afsp.org › About Suicide
The annual age-adjusted suicide rate is 13.26 per 100,000 individuals. … The rate of suicide is highest in middle age — white men in particular.

HT3 '83-'87

Marci, let me help you out on the numbers cuz that’s my thing…numbers. According to the Williams Institute of UCLA, TG Men attempt at 46%, and TG women 42%.
According to your referenced AFSP, total suicides are 13.26 per 100,000 and AFSP estimates 25 attempts per actual suicide and men are roughly 45% of the population and men are 3.5 times more likely to commit suicide and 7 of 10 suicides are white men. We can do the following equation:
(((13.26 x 25) / (100,000 x 45%)) x 3.5) / 70% = 3.68% attempted suicide rate for white men. I don’t profess to be a rocket scientist, but 3.68% is less than 46% and 42%. One could even say that TG’s are more than 10 times more likely to attempt suicide then white men.
That is a terrible number all kidding aside. Persons with Gender Dysphoria need professional help to avoid a most tragic end to their lives. They don’t need to put in high leverage situations responsible for multi-million dollars’ worth of equipment and their own & others’ lives on the line. These are the facts, and they cannot be disputed.

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

Hondo

Well, by that logic there’s no reason to disqualify people with bad eyes from flight school, either – because only some people with bad eyes will have trouble learning how to fly a plane.

Of course, a bunch of those who do have trouble will crash their aircraft and kill themselves – and their instructors. Just like a substantial fraction of transgenders will (statistically speaking) attempt suicide – some successfully – and leave their units short a body, impacting unit cohesion and morale in the process. And some will do so when every body is needed, an when unit cohesion and peak performance is at a premium.

The military has every right to use statistical data to determine who can – and who cannot – serve. That’s the underlying basis for why many if not most exclusions for preexisting conditions exist. And when a group has a suicide attempt rate approaching coin-toss odds (i.e., more than 40%) . . . well, excluding that group from military service is just plain common sense.

Silentium Est Aureum

And once again, Marci, suicide attempts or idealations are a bar to enlistment.

Where’d you get that CAR, again?

MSG Eric

On one FB feed, it might’ve been George Takei’s commenters were calling this the beginnings of a military coup.

If anyone finds out that rolling your eyes causes cancer, then I’m fucked because I do that so often.

A Proud Infidel®™

George Takei, the actor who espouses the political party that imprisoned him
and his family in an internment camp during WWII.

Ex-PH2

Why would they even bring up something that would be detrimental to their cause? Do they think that SecDef Mattis would bring the military to bear against us law-abiding citizens or something that stupid?

HT3 '83-'87

Hilarious…a bunch of knuckleheads who’s military experience totals SQUAT are calling for a military coup d’état?
Eww, that’s rich.
What a bunch of out of touch ass-clowns. The military now has a CIC that has their backs as opposed to the previous regime.
Hey, Sulu…stick to driving NCC-1701 & enunciating every vowel, and leave the running of the country to The Adults.

ChipNASA

“I rolled my eyes so hard when you commented on this, I saw my own brain stem.”
(massive LOLs)

Yef

I’m surprised you have a brain.

I would not have guessed.

IDC SARC

A faaaaaabulously fashionable coup 🙂

Poetrooper

MSG Eric, there’s a quick cure for that eyeball rolling problem–quit going to liberal websites.

You’ll probably have fewer stomach and blood pressure issues as well.

MSG Eric

“If you only know yourself and not the enemy, you only have a 50% chance of winning.”

Yef

Whoa, whoa, are you saying that the libtards are your enemy?

bman

I believe this has something to do with the defense budget. McCain and others threatening to add a rider to the appropriations bill that included the right for transgenders to serve in the military. This could be a delay action till after the bill is passed.

Poetrooper

Bingo!

ifcsguy

Might only delay action until McCain is out of the picture.

IDC SARC

time is tumor

The Other Whitey

Sounds to me like he said, “Fuck your feelings, this will be decided according to cold hard facts.”

Did I misunderstand?

Susan

I think that is exactly what he said. As he should.

GDContractor

Yes. But he said it through his white male heterosexual privilege, so it means nothing compared to…feelings.

Yef

Excellent point.

Graybeard

IMHO, the MSM is desperate to find anything to smear or disparage Trump.

FGS, worrying about FLOUS wearing heels to fly to Texas? Freaking out about what POTUS says to a group of folks who came to see him in Corpus?

The leftards have blown their collective gaskets.

Dave Hardin

FLOTUS could wear combat boots and burlap, she will still be breathtaking.

She makes me proud to be an American.

MSG Eric

Hell Yeah.

They’re just Peanut Butter and Jealous.

ChipNASA

She has single-handedly caused many *REAL* Americans to Salute the flag, hands free.

Ex-PH2

Throw ’em a bone, Graybeard. They have to have something to chew on. Haven’t you ever seen a stray dog look that pathetic?

All the media said about Trump in Texas in my kingdom was that he went there, met with the Coasties, listened to their reports and those of other people, and that was it.

I guess my local newsies have better things to do than gossip like bitter old virgin bitches over the backyard fences.

Graybeard

I’m from Texas.
A dog that won’t hunt don’t get a bone, and them dogs won’t hunt.

IDC SARC

“FLOTUS could wear combat boots and burlap”

fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfap

A Proud Infidel®™

President Trump could pass gas while on an overseas trip and the MSM would accuse him of chemical warfare.

Silentium Est Aureum

He could walk on water and the headlines the next day would say, “Trump can’t swim!”

11B-Mailclerk

Shaming a woman for her wardrobe choices?

This is 2017 not 1717! Where are the Feminists?

Ex-PH2

The feminazis are anti-woman, darlin’. They don’t want us girls to be REAL women, like your mama and grandma, who knew how to raise kids, manage household economically, hold down an outside job, and not go nuts while they were at it.

Besides, Mrs. Pres. Trump has better taste in clothing than they do. She makes them look like the slobs they are.

The Other Whitey

FLOTUS is hot. They’re jealous.

A Proud Infidel®™

She’s a Porsche and her predecessor was a dump truck.

HMCS(FMF) ret

She’s a Porsche and her predecessor was a YUGO…

Ex-PH2

True.

MSG Eric

I’ve said more than once, Trump could cure cancer and liberals would talk about how evil he is because he’s putting so many scientists and healthcare professionals out of work who take care of people with Cancer.

Commissar

I see you say this everyday. It does not make it true.

And you are doing yourself a disservice by dismissing frustration with the president as just angry liberals.

His approval is abysmal and even his base has started to drop. Only 78% of republicans approve of the president and only 1/3rd of those strongly approve.

That is terrible approval even among republicans who have a strong favorable bias TOWARD Trump.

And that is republicans who only represent 1/3 of registered voters.

Among independents his approval is 30% and less than 1/3 of those strongly approve.

And both the Russia investigation and the obstruction investigation are not going well for Trump at all.

It is clear based on the convened grand juries that Mueller has probable cause that crimes have occurred.

And the subpoena pattern indicates that Flynn has flipped and is going to be a state’s witness against people in the Trump camp.

There is a lot of pressure on Manafort to flip. And Manafort will interpret the Arpaio pardon as a sign Trump would have his back the president cannot pardon Manafort for the New York state charges he will be facing. There is a damn good chance he will make a deal with both prosecution teams. This is a guy that has no loyalty to anyone. Not even his own country. Hell, the guy is registered as a foreign agent in support of the Pro-Russian annexation party in the Ukraine which was set up and primarily funded by Russia.

We have gone way past the smoke phase of this and now see fire on the horizon.

SSG E

Reagan hit the upper 30s and went on to win 49 states in 1984. Carter hit the upper 20s and was within a few points of Reagan as late as September 1980. Approval polls are not an argument.

Commissar

Ouch.

Like I said, Trump can only protect Manafort from federal charges.

Manafort will flip.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/30/manafort-mueller-probe-attorney-general-242191

Commissar

And imagine for a second when Mueller starts bringing in low level white house staffers for interviews.

Young people with their entire lives ahead of them now facing legal bills who likely had nothing to do with anything related to the president’s core teams activities but may have overheard or have knowledge of information relevant to the investigation or Trump’s finances.

Do you think for a second that Trump won’t talk to one of those staffers before they go in to speak to the Mueller investigative team?

Do you think Trump will be able to resist talking to one of them? Even just to tell them not to discuss anything not related to Russia?

If Trump talks to any of them at all and gives them any instructions about the Mueller interview prior to the interview he will have committed obstruction.

A Proud Infidel®™

You like to just hear yourself talk, don’t you? Be careful, I heard it’s “Wedgie Wednesday” there at UC Berzerkely and you don’t want the Jocks to take you for the NERD you are!

PFM

Lars, all of these investigations would have been more credible if the people pushing them didn’t have such a case of butthurt that their candidate didn’t win, Democrat or Republican. You can add the media into that pile of crap, too. The best that could be hoped for is that all parties involved would do an AAR and mend their fucked up ways in the future, but we all know that ain’t gonna happen any time soon. Instead, we’ll have no progress on American issues until after 8 years have passed. I say 8 because although President Trump’s poll numbers are falling, all other groups in this sorry spectacle are lower than his and dropping. We got to see the outright collusion between the sacred Press and Politics, and it wasn’t (and still isn’t) pretty. At least the news about Harvey has been displacing this crap for a few days.

Commissar

Who is “they”.

Democrats?

Or the “establishment”.

Because this is clearly and investigation being supported by both sides of the aisle.

Which is why congress is still technically in session. So that Trump can’t fire Muller and self appoint a replacement.

And why republicans and introducing bi-partisian legislation to protect the integrity of the investigation from influence by the executive branch.

PFM

Integrity? Don’t make me laugh. Both parties are pushing this because both were blindsided by the election result – and Trump is no establishment politician. Both sides spent so much effort to skew the election, and both are pissed that an outsider knocked them on their asses. This is a non-issue that will continue for the next 7 years – a hell of a lot of Americans want the system to be fixed, and don’t give a rat’s ass about this, but the press and the corporate Democrats, and the Never Trump branch of the Republican elites, will harp on this because it keeps the money rolling in. The Democrats have no plan for the country other than to bleat “Trunp Bad”, and the Republican Congressional leadership is playing an obstructionist game. I can’t wait for 2018 to see the fantastic plans that both sides of the aisle have to regain the Presidency – I predict more of the same anti-Trump message with absolutely no detailed plan for the country other than some more nebulous “New Deals” that Chuck Schumer can throw out in front of the cameras. I’ll predict now that the investigation will go nowhere – as it has for the past 10 months. The best thing about this entire charade is that on both sides of the aisle many of the power brokers are pushing 80 and will be dead in a few years.

Stacy0311

And imagine for a minute when Mueller starts to dig into the “Russians colluded with Trump to throw the election by hacking the DNC server”. And subpoenas start coming for DNC staffers, the server and other related things. How many people are going to be willing to go to jail for Hillary, Huma and Wasserman-Schultz?

What’s funny/interesting/sad/pathetic is the same crop of useful idiots who squealed about Starr’s investigation of Bill Clinton are the same ones urging Mueller to go on a similar never ending fishing expedition to find something/anything to impeach the President.

Prediction-2 maybe 3 indictments for perjury.

MSG Eric

I don’t say it everyday. I’ve said it a few times though, but definitely not on Tuesdays because that is Taco Tuesday and there are more important things in life.

Further, there’s a difference between being critical of the current President, or politicians and just being completely divisive just to be divisive. (An arguably solid reason why Hillary lost even though the “media” said she would win.)

The fact he gave the military ‘Mattis’ is enough for many in the military to be supportive/appreciative, even if he does a lot of other dumb stuff we don’t agree with. That is regardless of the fact that Obama fired Mattis for telling Congress the truth under oath.

The media reporting on Melania’s shoes during an emergency disregards everything else he’s doing to provide for response and recovery in Texas during this significant time.

Katrina taught us well enough not to let it happen again and he’s playing his part to ensure it doesn’t.

This is also the same media that glossed over all of the scandals that happened during Obama’s administration proclaiming how wonderful he was and how there were “no scandals”.

It still doesn’t change the fact that even when he’s doing something positive, “the they” are looking for something negative to report about.

11B-Mailclerk

Katrina also taught us “Evacuate the city -before- the monster storm floods it.”

And gee, what -didn’t- happen again?

We now get lame excuses “well evacuations are dangerous!”. They are also expensive, and poorly run cities really struggle with execution of evacuations, and paying for it all. And they can be a tad embarrassing if the storm fails to be as bad as expected. But when it -is- as bad, or in this case -worse-……

You can bet your ass that the geniuses that made -that- non-call, ensured that their selves and their own were safe and sound.

Eden

How and where are you going to evacuate 6.5 million people? During Rita, more people died on the highways trying to evacuate than those who died in the storm itself.

Silentium Est Aureum

It gets worse. Apparently the clowns over at CREW have their panties in a wad over the hat he wore, because it’s for sale somewhere.

Of course, where were they when Clinton was selling her soul for “access”?

Crickets.

Dave Hardin

I scoff at those who believe Jim Mattis will miss the target identified by the POTUS.

They simply do not understand, nor can they, how the man thinks. Mattis will calculate his Yaw of Repose along the vector to the target.

Taking a snapshot of his position along that path will be misleading to those who do not understand the effects of pressure and inertia as he moves down range.

Make no mistake, he understands the gyroscopic effect of internal forces and will adjust to compensate for any external forces along the trajectory.

Understanding a Yaw of Repose ensures you hit the target, even though your position varies along the way.

The man is a Ballistic Monk.

The Other Whitey

Ballistics is a science. There’s no feelings in science–not in real sciences, anyway. That’s why they don’t get it.

11B-Mailclerk

No feelings in ballistics?

The sensation of having broken the shot perfectly

The sensation of -knowing- the shot went -exactly- where you sent it.

Seeing the results of the above items.

Priceless!

Tom Huxton

The best feeling at the gun is hearing secondary explosions from that truck full of rockets as your last three rounds are still in flight.

The Other Whitey

True, but the round ain’t gonna hit its target because you feel like somebody owes you something because you’re just that special. You have to earn your result.

Hondo

11B-Mailclerk: I believe what you’re describing is post-ballistic bliss. (smile)

MSG Eric

Unfortunately, there are feelings in various sciences way too often because humans are involved.

IDC SARC

“Ballistics is a science”

yeah but since you can’t use a large population of hoomans in a standardized random control environment ..ethically …sigh…there is always a bit of subjectivity.

effing petty morality

11B-Mailclerk

As I read that, I heard it in the Heath Ledger “Joker” voice.

Nicely done.

Perry Gaskill

Has Lars been calling you up in the middle of the night again, Dave? The trajectory of ballistic-monk loon windage seems to exceed normal velocity parameters in this one…

Dave Hardin

The Coriolis effect is rather dramatic from my AO to his. I thought about skulling his way but its just a lot simpler to skim on by.

At this point, I could write most of his posts for him. He has become a rather uncongenial person, his posts weary by dullness.

But, he does have sexy eyes.

Sapper3307

LARS???

Ex-PH2

SHUSH!, thou infidel! Speak not the Nominative Major of thine Opposition, lest thou do conjure up the dJinn Incarnate!

IDC SARC

Lars Ulrich…we’re talking abut Lars Ulrich.

Helluva musician and certainly not a name that could be used as an incantation to summon he that we have not summoned. Nope certainly not.

Yef

A commie and a liberal.

Destroyed nafter.

But that was way before my time. Back during the birth of teh internetz.

Silentium Est Aureum

Bettlejuice!!!

Ex-PH2

You just had to, didn’t you?

Commissar

Not sure why you felt the need to invoke my name on this.

My position on this is not a liberal position.

While I think the military could admit some transgender service members on a case by case basis with a waiver (much like it does with other medical conditions) I do not think transgender in general, and gender transition specifically, is compatible with military service.

rgr769

Gee, how about morbidly obese people with diabetes? Some of them may want to serve. Or how about schizophrenics? There must be some job they can do in the Army; after all, they found jobs for you.

IDC SARC

“schizophrenics”

Field Medical Service School has first dibbs

SFC D

No, you can’t dissect the schizophrenics to look for improper wiring.

IDC SARC

dammit

SFC D

Does sound kinda fun, though.

Ex-PH2

Perhaps you could ask for volunteers for such dissection. Offer them untold rewards, a place in history, and a wooden plaque with their name on it, one that must needs be repainted yearly.

Ex-PH2

What’s wrong with hiring blind people? I worked with a woman who was blind. Typing speed was 101 WPM, accuracy 100%, completely organized and completely reliable. Who could possibly be a better spy? After all, the eyeband that Geordie wears in ST:NG is under development now, you know.
And what about deaf/hard of hearing people? A bionic implant could easily fool Russiche spiones into thinking such a person to be completely harmless, right?
And certainly, an attorney who is wheelchair bound could argue as a JAG officer. I used to meet one on the bus, going home, every evening.
Just because people have strange hairstyles, it doesn’t mean they can’t be useful. Why should all the healthy breeding stock be killed off, fer Pete’s sake?

Commissar

WTF are you getting at? Some medical conditions are waiver able some are not.

Ex-PH2

To me, speak you not!
If you can look into the seeds of time, and say which grain will grow and which will not, speak, then, to me, who neither beg nor fear your favors nor your hate.

Dave Hardin

Were such things here as we do speak about?
Or have we eaten on the insane root
That takes the reason prisoner?

Ex-PH2

I’m sorry, Dave, I’ve locked the podbay doors on you. I’m afraid you’re trying to compromise the mission again.

Dave Hardin

Shall we stoop now to quoting Lord Banquo? For he knew not the impending doom that awaits. Trust not that he who seems your antagonist doest not become ally.

Ex-PH2

The spirit that I have seen may be the devil, and the devil hath power to assume a pleasing shape; yea, and perhaps, out of my weakness and my melancholy,
as he is very potent with such spirits, abuses me to damn me.
And yet, I do know a hawk from a handsaw.

Dave Hardin

Stick to Macbeth, Banquo dare not sleep…we have that in common.

Ex-PH2

How did you dare to trade and traffic with Macbeth, in riddles and affairs of death,
and I, the mistress of your charms, the close contriver of all harms, was never call’d to bear my part, or show the glory of our art?
And which is worse, all you have done jath been but for a wayward son, spiteful and wrathful, who, as others do, loves for his own ends, not for you.

Dave Hardin

I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to those teachers.

Commissar

The president gets to score political points with the base while the military takes some time to do what makes the most sense with respect to a very complex issue that impacts the lives of some honorably serving military members.

Yef

Name one.

Commissar

It is pretty interesting how this is being interpreted on both sides.

On the right, and on this board, people seem to see this as Mattis obeying and doing what he is told.

On the left they see it as Mattis essentially taking the president’s order “under advisement” while he investigates and does what is best for the military after he gets the information he needs to make a decision.

The narrative that he is “moving out smartly and executing the president’s order” is flat false.

But he is doing more than merely “taking it under advisement”.

He took the order and is taking action by investigating the impact and then plans to return with a report on a plan of action including the impact to the military and so Trump can approve it or adjust his decision.

Commissar

How did anything I say in my post indicate I did not understand the written word, Jonn?

“Once the panel reports its recommendations and following my consultation with the secretary of Homeland Security, I will provide my advice to the president concerning implementation of his policy direction. In the interim, current policy with respect to currently serving members will remain in place.”

Implementing a panel and then returning to provide ADVICE to the president while not implementing the order in the mean time is NOT “moving out smartly and executing”.

Once the commander makes a decision the time for “advice” is over.

You know that. Mattis knows that.

Mattis is not acting on Trump’s order at all right now. Current policies remain in place. Which already includes accommodating Transgender service members.

And Mattis is going to give Trump more information after the panel reaches a recommendation and give Trump a second chance to make the decision.

Hondo

Have you even read the text of the POTUS’s memo? Based on your half-baked comments above, I’d guess not.

Here’s section 3 of the POTUS’s memo to the SeCDEF, with emphasis added on pertinent sections for your benefit.

Sec. 3. Effective Dates and Implementation. Section 2(a) of this memorandum shall take effect on January 1, 2018. Sections 1(b) and 2(b) of this memorandum shall take effect on March 23, 2018. By February 21, 2018, the Secretary of Defense, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, shall submit to me a plan for implementing both the general policy set forth in section 1(b) of this memorandum and the specific directives set forth in section 2 of this memorandum. The implementation plan shall adhere to the determinations of the Secretary of Defense, made in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, as to what steps are appropriate and consistent with military effectiveness and lethality, budgetary constraints, and applicable law. As part of the implementation plan, the Secretary of Defense, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, shall determine how to address transgender individuals currently serving in the United States military. Until the Secretary has made that determination, no action may be taken against such individuals under the policy set forth in section 1(b) of this memorandum.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trumps-memo-on-transgender-troops-full-text/article/2632632

You might want to pay special attention to the underlined part above. Because, numbn*ts, that’s exactly what the SECDEF’s public announcement says he’s doing. And he’s doing so by putting together an expert-level panel to come up with recommendations to the POTUS on how to proceed in that area.

Sheesh. Forget Berkeley – didn’t your freaking Middle School teach you how to (1) read standard English at an 8th grade level, and (2) how to do even cursory homework before waxing ignorant in public?

Ex-PH2

And there it is.

MSG Eric

“Truly you have a very dizzying intellect.”

Ex-PH2

It is difficult to have to explain metaphor to someone whose intellect is limited to reading blurbs and paragraph headings.

LC

“Wait till I get going! .. Where was I?”

The Other Whitey

But is he left-handed?

Ex-PH2

The proper response to that question is that one might hear this coming from that direction:

I had union with my hand, and I embraced my shadow in a love embrace; I poured seed into my own mouth and I sent forth from myself issue in the form of gods and stuff.

The Other Whitey

Okay, that was poetically disturbing. All I did was carry on with the “Princess Bride” jokes.

Graybeard

Anybody want a peanut?

David

not if it’s salted with Iocaine

MSG Eric

Inconceivable Believable!

Ex-PH2

A little tip, TOW: it has to do with godlike productions and the self-image of being a god, even if one is too dumb to tie one’s own shoes.
In this case, it is someone who would argue over instructions on how to tie his own shoes, thereby making it even more disturbing.
You did make me laugh, TOW.

The Other Whitey

Oh, I got it. It just gave me an unwanted (albeit accurate) mental image of Commissar.

Ex-PH2

I think he is indeed a fool’s fool.

MSG Eric

“Australia”

A Proud Infidel®™

Could it be that Commissar Fullashit just KNOWS a shit-ton of stuff that just ain’t true?

Ex-PH2

Umm… possibly.

Hondo

He claims to be a UC-B grad. I think he really has a MSU degree.

And here, “MSU” doesn’t stand for Murray State University or that other college in East Lansing, MI.

Ex-PH2

The fellow doth protest too much, methinks!

Just An Old Dog

Lars is mot only a “sexual intellectual” AKA a fucking know it all, he has the integrity of a gutter dwelling knob slobbing crack whore.
If he ever learned how to present an opinion without trying to belittle people that disagreed with him he would have potential.
I suspect his arrogance is what got him removed from any type of combat arms and nixed any command time he would have had.
His commission must have been in the bottom of a box of cracker jacks.

HMCS(FMF) ret

In the case of Commissar, reading IS NOT fundamental, Jonn…

Commissar

Wow, so much anger and angst.

You all get back to me when the ban is actually implemented.

I don’t believe a total ban will ever be implemented.

All Trump cares about is scoring points with his base for giving the order in the first place.

When the investigation determines that a total ban is not necessary something far less than a total ban will be implemented.

IDC SARC

“All Trump cares about is scoring points with his base for giving the order in the first place.”

Why is that? If he’s a megalomaniac why would he care? He’s already the POTUS and independently wealthy.

IDC SARC

Seems to me your personality assessment is one POTUS behind. 🙂

LC

Why is that? If he’s a megalomaniac why would he care? He’s already the POTUS and independently wealthy.

To be fair, just because a reasonable person might be satisfied with being POTUS and wealthy doesn’t mean a megalomaniac would be. The President does display a certain sensitivity to crowd sizes, for example. And he likes to talk about ratings a lot. Like him or hate him, or somewhere in between, it seems he does care what other people think about him, despite his accomplishments.

But to continue the movie references from above, wading into this feels a bit like a ‘classic blunder’…

Ex-PH2

Movie references? Be specific.

LC

The Princess Bride. If you’ve somehow gotten through life without seeing it, do yourself a favor and check it out. It’s fantastic.

The Other Whitey

“I give you my word as a Spaniard!”

“Sorry, afraid I’ve known too many Spaniards.”

Ex-PH2

Oh, I got the Princess Bride references, but mine hath naught to do with that.

MSG Eric

I read the book when I was in 9th grade. I enjoyed it substantially, though I watched the movie first.

Great book. Great Movie.

IDC SARC

“The President does display a certain sensitivity to crowd sizes”

like most successful leaders of large numbers of people….doesn’t mean it’s insincere…he may think he is doing what he needs to do and actually care about what he’s doing.

Or he may not…I don’t see clear indicators that can put a casual observer on a pillar of behavioral truth

LC

I didn’t claim it was insincere… but I’m inclined to think it’s a bit insecure. Just my opinion; I won’t fight you over it. And sure, plenty of leaders care about crowd sizes… not too many of them repeatedly insist their crowds were the largest, despite evidence to the contrary (and I’ll point out, it doesn’t matter anyway).

Not too many people would go to Langley and talk about their crowd size after the election – there tend to be more pressing matters of actual concern, for example. Or, just the other night, in his own words the President pardoned Arpaio during what he figured would be ‘high ratings’ because of storm coverage.

Look, if you want to make the argument that caring about crowd sizes / ratings is a good thing because it means he’s got his finger to the pulse of the public, fine. I’m not convinced, but you can make a plausible argument. If you want to argue President Trump is no more sensitive to this than any other President, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Does it speak to his overall personality? No, of course not, that’s a wee bit more complex than whether he fired his long-time event guy because of the small Phoenix crowd or not. But he cares more than anyone else I know of about things like this.

IDC SARC

ok he’s da debbil….you’ll get used to it over the next 4-8 years

MSG Eric

“there tend to be more pressing matters of actual concern”

Right, like what shoes Melania wears….

IDC SARC

fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapap

Perry Gaskill

LC, a couple of things to consider are, first of all, that a distinguishing characteristic of the Trump presidency is he tends to bypass the normal filters of White House PR and the press, and go directly to voters via Twitter. Whether that is a good or bad thing is for a separate discussion. The point being that what may be an apparent current fixation on ratings may in fact be more usual by past occupants of the Oval Office than is common knowledge.

Then too, the media tendency toward being in the tank for Hillary Clinton and ex-President Barack Obama has never really gone away; it’s simply morphed into a form of rationale for getting the election outcome wrong, or as a form of revenge. Which means the Trump administration has never been able to get traction. I think it would be fair to say, for example, there was no early-stage “honeymoon” in the normal sense, and President Trump has met relentless opposition even from those who typically remain neutral. Such as White House staff and DC bureaucracy, which probably saw his campaign promise to “drain the swamp” as a threat.

Under those conditions, it shouldn’t be a surprise that any President might be inclined to be hyper aware of general public opinion.

LC

Sure, maybe we’re usually ‘shielded’ from a zealous concern over crowd sizes by occupants of the White House,… but few who concern themselves with such things go to the levels the current President does to insist his were the biggest. Take, for example, the inauguration crowds – pretty large, by all accounts. But not the largest. People responsible for estimates confirm that. Photos do a pretty good job of confirming that, too. But the President, no, he insists (or did, in the past) that his were the largest, contrary to the evidence.

It’s one thing to want large crowd sizes, and as I said above, one could even argue a focus on that is good since it indicates an ability to connect with the voters. But to argue against reality betrays, in my opinion, an insecurity.

This doesn’t even need to be about President Trump. You see it here in some fakers who claim they were so secret that their records don’t exist. And for all the people who say, “Well, Trump is already a billionaire and POTUS, why would he embellish things?”, we have examples of people here with perfectly fine service who, despite that, are suddenly secret-squirrel spaceshuttle snipers. Success doesn’t inoculate one against ego.

Does that mean he’s the devil? No, of course not. In fact, he did something awesome today by donating $1M to the Harvey relief funds. No qualifications, no whining about how he should do more, he donated his private money to help people. Good for him. He can do good sometimes, do bad other times, and still be insecure about not measuring up as the best ever. He is human, after all.

Ex-PH2

I think he’s extremely good at misdirecting the media’s attention, at his own discretion.

MSG Eric

He’s been doing it expertly since he decided to run and they still haven’t stopped playing his game. Its a good reason why I’m sure he’s smiling all the time.

I’d be smiling just because I was married to Melania, or was worth billions, or was President. But, we all have our favorite things.

Fyrfighter

Kinda like getting involved in a land war in Asia?

timactual

“u·ni·form·i·ty
noun: uniformity; plural noun: uniformities
the quality or state of being uniform.
“an attempt to impose administrative and cultural uniformity”
synonyms: constancy, consistency, conformity, invariability, stability, regularity, evenness, homogeneity, equality, harmony”

https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=uniformity%2C+def&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Note the synonyms, including the last; Harmony.

There is a reason recruits all get the same haircut, wear the same clothing. They are taught to walk the same way and to do the same job(s) in the same way with the same tools. They are all learning to be *interchangeable* parts in a large machine. Diversity is NOT a strength in this machine, it is a weakness.

Some weaknesses may be unavoidable, but they can be minimized.

Ex-PH2

I have not seen a mightier man-at-arms on this earth than the one standing here: unless I am mistaken, Mattis is truly noble. He is no mere hanger-on in a hero’s armour.

IDC SARC

Mattis: Fukk Yeah!

MSG Eric

Hell Yeah. His statement to the troops was fantastic and perfect, exactly what a leader should say without picking sides, without blaming, without getting dramatic.

For Mattis alone it is worthwhile enough to put up with dopey things that Trump does.

IDC SARC

remember it’s not just we gained in Mattis and others, but also what was avoided …Shrillery and the avalanche of absurdity that would have followed.

Just An Old Dog

Don’t like Trump? Give us a better option.
One that is for the American people, building businesses, enforcing the Law, having a Strong Defense and not wasting taxpayer money.
You build a platform on supposedly fixing Social Justice Issues and put everything else a distant second I’ll vote Trump every time.

Ex-PH2

They don’t like his hats, Old Dog. They find his hats offensive.

Stacy0311

The Left is getting all wet thinking “military coup, OMG Mattis is defying the President. All the precious sparkle ponies are going to get to join the sexist/racist/homo-transphobic servant of the patriarchy military”

Seriously? A former Marine is SecDef, a Marine is CJCS, a former Marine is WH CoS. Maybe they need to remember when Fabulous Ray was ruining the Navy, it was Marines who attempted to stop the flood of stupidity flowing out of DC.

And a question for those who are claiming transgenderism/gender dysphoria isn’t a mental illness-what word, term or phrase would you use to describe an individual who’s mental condition, feelings or beliefs don’t match their physical reality? I only have a liberal arts degree from a state university so maybe I don’t understand the nuances of this.

Ex-PH2

It’s about ‘feelz’, Stacy0311.

It’s something like: ‘I don’t feelz I’m who/what I am, so I will pretend I’m something else for feelz’.