VA to Expand Mental Health Care to veterans with Other-than-honorable Discharges
Veterans Affairs Secretary Dr. David J. Shulkin has stated that the VA will begin to offer mental health services to those who have been discharged under other than honorable conditions. You can read the press release HERE.
“Our goal is simple: to save lives,” Shulkin continued. “Veterans who are in crisis should receive help immediately. Far too many Veterans have fallen victim to suicide, roughly 20 every day. Far too many families are left behind asking themselves what more could have been done. The time for action is now.”
The story is making its way through veteran groups with many expressing opinions that are diametrically opposing. Concerns about “Entitlement Creep” seem to be surfacing. Secretary Shulkin credits Rep. Mike Coffman, R-Colo., for changing his view on the issue. Rep. Coffman has been active in legislation on the issue:
A measure that Coffman championed last year, the Fairness for Veterans Act, made it into the National Defense Authorization Act. It requires Defense Department panels that review discharges to consider medical evidence from a veteran’s health care provider. Panels would have to review each case presuming that post-traumatic stress disorder, traumatic brain injury, sexual assault trauma or another service-related condition led to the discharge.
It also aims to give the benefit of the doubt to veterans who seek to correct their military records.
It appears that people who were discharged with an Other Than Honorable Discharge can now receive benefits and have their discharge characterization changed because the VA must presume that PTSD, TBI, Rape, or some other service-related condition was responsible for it in the first place. That sounds like more than just mental health services being offered. As is most often the case, the cause is being pushed from behind a banner that most people will not challenge.
Of course there is the issue of veteran suicide painted boldly on the banner they seem to be marching behind.
“Our goal is simple: to save lives,” Shulkin continued. “Veterans who are in crisis should receive help immediately. Far too many Veterans have fallen victim to suicide, roughly 20 every day. Far too many families are left behind asking themselves what more could have been done. The time for action is now.”
Under the “If it saves even one life” rule, no critical thought can be put into the effort. Even though the “22 a Day” myth has been debunked countless times…it persists. It is disturbing that the VA itself is using the number 20. The actual number is something more like 7 according to most researchers including the Military Suicide Research Consortium.
The study suggests that 22 veterans commit suicide on average each day while the data above suggests an average of 2,500 suicides by veterans per year or under seven per day in the 21 states studied.
I seriously doubt that the number of preventable veteran suicides is even that high if corrected properly for those over 50 who are suffering from fatal illnesses and decide to stop the pain by their own hand.
I agree that one is too many. We should be doing all we can to prevent needless suicides. Does that mean we have to open the gates for people with OTH discharges to join the ranks of everyone else at the entitlement buffet?
The rampant over diagnosis of PTSD has become epidemic. Once again, the “veterans are victims” hyperbole persists.
If there is no substance to Honorable service…then Military Service has no honor. Everyone gets a trophy.
Category: Politics
I have a bunch of trophies… but I earned them.
TRY to tell me that THIS won’t open the door to a flash flood of con gamers, ne’er-do-wells and scammers looking for a free easy ride!
And legit vets are stonewalled.
Keep reminding me of why I’ll never set foot into a VA facility.
Count me among those “diametrically opposed”. IMO, anything other than an honorable discharge should be an absolute bar to receipt of any benefits whatsoever from the VA.
Performing your assigned duties while serving and thereby getting an honorable discharge just isn’t that difficult.
I’m with you, Hondo… it’s not that damn hard to do 4 years or 24 years honorably – just do you job to the best of your abilities.
Word, my man, word.
Substandard discharges = shitbags.
This is bullshit…Seems the VA is trying to target the underclass of those who fucked up to the infth degree to justify their outrageous budget to save their own jobs..I worked hard to get my retirement and have a small percentage of disability that took years to get, now some piece of human waste is allowed to just walk right in and get equal treatment? This is taking care if Veterans?
AMEN to that.
“Veterans Affairs Secretary Dr. David J. Shulkin has stated that the VA will begin to offer mental health services to those who have been discharged under other than honorable conditions.”
Does THAT mean just those with General Discharges or are they going to allow dirtbags with BCD’s in as well?
Or AdSep’s for drug use?
Those with Honorable and General discharges are already eligible. As I read the press release, mental health treatment is now being extended to those with Other Than Honorable (OTH) administrative discharges . I take this to mean that those with punitive discharges (DD, BCD, and Dismissal) remain ineligible.
True, MrBill. And IMO, that’s part of the freaking problem.
If someone received a General or UOTHC administrative discharge, they by definition didn’t live up to their end of the “deal” they made with Uncle Sam when they enlisted and/or were commissioned. Ergo, IMO they now have no legitimate claim for a damn thing from Uncle Sam relating to that service.
IF something during their service “caused” their General or UOTHC discharge, they can always take their
sob storycase to the appropriate DRB or BCMR. If either board agrees with them after reviewing their case, their discharge can be upgraded. If not – well, xin loi.VA benefits should be earned via honorable military service. As it stands today, due to the way we’ve “loosened” the eligibility criteria over the past 25 years or so we’re fast approaching VA bennies being nothing more than yet another government giveaway.
Sort of like welfare, eh?
Before they open the door to yet more veterans, they need to properly care for those already eligible and clean house. Get the dang phony POWS and phony vets out of the system. Get caring personnel and reduce wait times. Get physicians on the disability appeals boards. They only talk about days or months – how about those that have waited a decade for disability – and pass from a horrible disease before the VA get off their ass and make a decision. And yes – buried in the bureaucracy, are a few good employees. Too few. Are Tom Burch and Rudi Gresham still employed?
How long before little Suzie Snowflake who couldn’t do a single push-up at the Reception Battalion files for PTSD because a Drill Sergeant yelled at her? Oh, wait, her story just changed from yelled to raped. Oops, I guess we need to provide her with 100% disability for her little feelz, but Joe over there who lost both of his legs to an IED can still work so he only gets 50%.
Exactly! Again, how is this taking care of veterans who have rightfully earned this benefit? The grass ain’t greener on this side folks.
Hell, the fake vets and the people who couldn’t hack boot camp already get VA care. This is just making it official.
It’s wrong to open the doors based on PTSD to OTH veterans. Only 10% of veterans see combat and out of that only about 7% report PTSD. It would be easier to simply fix the problem by having those OTH veterans who were kicked out after having a PTSD diagnoses send their DD214s in to be upgraded.
Ok I am confused…not that that is hard to believe…but anyway…
Does this mean they get VA cash as well or just treatment? If its just treatment, I wouldn’t mind that so much, but if they are getting a VA disability check in addition to treatment, then I have a huge problem with that.
I have a problem with that too, TC.
The VA’s budget is fixed annually. Thus, spending for VA medical care is a “zero sum game” with a fixed “pot”. If any $$$ is spent to care for those with less than an honorable discharge, it’s not available for use to serve those who actually served honorably. Allowing any care for those with less than an honorable discharge thus screws some vets who fulfilled their end of the bargain.
You sign on the dotted line, you should uphold your end of the deal – plain and simple. If you didn’t qualify for the benefits by doing your part, IMO you shouldn’t get any benefits pertinent to someone who did.
As I said above: discharge upgrade is the proper way to go here. Not eligibility expansion.
There is another issue to me as well.
The VA is having trouble with the legitimate mental health care issues of people who served honorably.
Now to that broken system we are adding more people whose acted in a manner that at the time knew could and would cost them VA benefits but didn’t care?
Before one goes adding more stories on a building, you have to make sure the foundation and floors below can handle the weight. You don’t add more floors when the foundation is not sound.
To me, that is what is happening here. Fix (or at least start to fix) the VA issues and then, maybe, perhaps, sort of, you can look at adding more people into the system and the discussion of whether they should be in the system can take place.
Another thing to consider: many (not all, but almost certainly a majority) of the folks who get chaptered out with OTH discharges for discipline and drug usage are classic examples of folks who should never have joined in the first place due to pre-existing issues.
In recruiting circles, these are the clowns that get DEPped in from the 27th to the end of the month so the station/district can make mission.
The MHC facility where I go is 8 professionals short. FOUR of those are psychiatrists, the others PhD and Social Workers. The social worker I know sees 14-16 patients PER DAY. During no-shows she catches up on paperwork or does phone appointments. Now, throw into that X number of additional former service members who couldn’t do the simple stuff required for an honorable discharge, (And, really, folks, it ain’t that damn difficult.) and the staff is even more hopelessly behind. If one were to call today, they would be seen in 2+ months, on average, as I have been told by those with a dog in the fight.
Yes, one suicide a day is too many. So is one case of psoriasis or pneumonia is also too many. Why not see them, also. I’ve been waiting 2+ months for a derm appoint. I’m being seen the last week of March after having waited nearly 3 months.
This will be mission creep at its finest. BCD? No problem, step right up. Pretty soon, disability payments will be in the works, also. Don’t think so? I do.
Not minimizing suicide but a line must be drawn. Not all are worthy of the care, IMO.
This is how it goes. The door is slosed right now. In a short while, it will be opened–but just a wee bit, to allow OTH individuals (a/k/a military failures) access to “emergency” mental health care of one sort or another. Why? Is it that there are suicide hotlines for these people, or public/ private mental health treatment and facilities? Hell no. In my view, it’s to open that door, however slightly, so that it can be opened wider over the next few years and, ultimately, blown off its hinges to full benefits. This is how it goes. It’s a tried and true game. From DADT to “Transgenders Welcome Here!” in a handful of years. It worked with them and it will work here.
Is it that there are NO suicide hotlines
Programs do not have to work, they just have to justify larger budgets. Adding a whole horde of new people to the VA would “justify” a much bigger budget and many, many more hires, right?
The folks so gifted with new bennies would certainly vote appropriately,and if they crowd out the honorable vets, well, those folks vote “wrong” anyway.
Remember, to the Left, people have no inherent tendencies to evil or failure. It is all a social construct, all a matter of the right conditioning and the right leaders, and if folks fail or turn to misbehavior, then they were not subjected to the right nagging, conditioning, or coercion. To the Left, the -military- clearly failed the OTH crowd, otherwise they would have succeeded, for they are not at fault for any shortcomings. Thus, “Free Stuff!” Ass they are -owed- no matter what shit-baggery produced the bad paper.
Yes, the Left -really- thinks this way. They expect their madness to actually produce progress, and when it fails again and again and again it is because someone sabotages it, or doesn’t do it right, or some other excuse, not because it is mindless stupidity that failed because, you know, it is simply -wrong-.
So all those OTHs out there are a) a ready expansion of another bloated program full of additional loyal voters (helpers and helpers alike) b) another expression of righting a wrong of calling someone bad/OTH by the -actually- guilty Military Myrmidon types c) an opportunity to “prove” that people are not “evil” just not properly civilized by Progressives.
-Soooooooo- much stupid. So much -fail-. And they will do it again and again and again until the rest of us stop screwing up their fever-dream fantasies by insisting on functioning in reality.
veteran$$$$$$$
And yet nearly all who honorably served (like me) don’t get shit and never will.
Not that I asked for anything, except maybe a hole to be buried in when the time comes.
I doubt they’re interested in actually providing care to anyone nearly as much as they are on simply appropriating more funds.
They can’t provide service to thousands of Vets that served Honorably but are going to throw these into the mix? Good job.
President Trump, about that swamp draining?
We had one of these guys who advocates for benies for the phuckups do a guest visit and appeal here some time ago. Things did not go well for him, as I recall and one of his show-and-tell phuckups was not at all pleased with the responses.
They may as well extend it to those that “thought” about joining the military or self identify as a veteran.
What the fuck am I thinking? They already do.
So Mary, the psychiatrist, sees Joe, who is the recipient of a BCD b/c he was a shitbird who couldn’t meet fairly basic and easily achieved requirements. Mary notices in addition to his mental health issues, he has chest discomfort. Mary calls her MD friend, Warren, in primary care, asking that Joe be seen today to r/o pneumonia or a cardiac/pulmonary issue. Warren relents although he knows it is not allowed. It is determined Joe is in the beginning stages of a cardiac event, requiring hospitalization. The nearest VA hospital is 100 miles, so Joe ends up at one of the local civilian hospitals. After all is said and done, weeks later, the bill exceeds $50K. That would be a conservative estimate given weeks of hospitalization and extensive testing. $100K to $200K would not be out of the question. It’s possible to burn through tens of thousands of dollars in an hour in an ER. Been there, seen that. Guess who pays?
That same $100K would hire a social worker, +/-. See what I’m saying? Yeah, I get it. I spent 41 years in multiple aspects of health care. I care. BUT, I care more about those who served honorably and have the paperwork to prove it. Joe can go to the local charity hospital.
Think this scenario is unrealistic? It’s not. I’ve already seen the VA conduct what is known as humanitarian care for those who are not even veterans or those who are the spouses of true veterans. Don’t tell me it doesn’t happen. This crap will get out of hand.
Mission creep on the backs of veterans who served honorably. Well, maybe it won’t be so bad. Probably half with bad paper are already being seen, having supplied a gundecked 214.
I’d rather see the $100K go toward getting colonoscopies for 100 deserving veterans on the local economy to help reduce the backlog.
Fuck if you do not have an honorable discharge then I could care less if you were face down in a ditch.
Dudes need help but we are going to help losers instead.
Fuck this.
This is already done. I’ve seen a few, and they were absolutely justified in getting their discharge upgraded. It takes clear, direct dots between combat service, a fast-slide into disintegration resulting in a discharge due to the disintegration with no attempt by command to even offer treatment.
If someone comes home addicted to the drugs they were given for their fourth concussion, have an undiagnosed (at the time) TBI that is glaringly obvious, and all this leads to behavior that brings a less than honorable, when it should have been a medical, it should be, can be and happily often is upgraded.
I’ve also seen more than a few who tried this route, and appropriately failed.
IMHO, this move by Shulkin proves he should not have anything to do with the VA.
Re: that 22 a day number, the other half of that sentence is, “and the average age is 59”. Interestingly, I’ve never seen if that “average” is the mode, median or mean.
I know this thread is a few days old, but it is a hot topic in my little world.
Anything short of a DD can already qualify for mental health care at vet center if you can prove combat connectedness. Given the new bill, which already requires DRBs to assume a medical problem was causal in the discharge and a medical retirement system that does dual processing, I don’t know what this move accomplishes other than to open the door to people with no deployment history who couldn’t even convince a DRB with a mandate to apply super relaxed criteria to upgrade them.
I’ve heard a fair number of upgrade requests over time. There are some obvious ones where you scratch your head and think, “how could the command not see this person was sick?” But they are not numerous in my mind. Commands are already mandated to consider PTSD and TBI during ad seps so the bill should only be capturing those pre-2008 that were discharged before the requirement. The more common occurrence are as others have said, people who had issues before, who were going to have issues in life regardless and who come making a case based on BS that they can’t keep straight and even their DAV rep is embarrassed to be seen supporting. And make no mistake, it’s not treatment they’re after…It’s the c&p dollars.
This is a tough one. I have seen way more people trying to ride the system than actually needed help as intended in this case. So do we shut the door on all of them? I suppose if the VA could come even close to handling their current case load this could be a thing. As it is they can’t. So this dumb idea will result in less people getting actual help, pointless says I.
Lily your 7% numbers on PTSD are likely BS. Not because they are not reported numbers but because a lot of guys simply are not going to report it. Later when a family member is screaming at them to go get help they have a change of heart. Still the numbers will be small. Figure 300K people saw some sort of combat in the last 16 years. If even 20% have PTSD we are talking 60K, a tiny fraction of the veteran population.
I served AD Army from 90-93, Honorable discharge.
Then I served in the Coast Guard from 93-98, Honorable discharge.
Then I served in the CA ANG from 03-08, with a combat deployment to Iraq, Honorable discharge.
I was Airborne Qualified and held the MOS’s of 16R, 27D, 96B and 88M, and the Coast Guard Rating of Gunner’s Mate.
After returning from Iraq, I transferred to the NY NG, where I had some service-related problems and received a General in 2010.
I wonder, does the fact that I received a one General DC make me a shitbag, as everyone states? Do I not deserve to receive help that I request? Is it REALLY that unfathomable that my service may have been a factor in receiving a GD? Or should any claims made by a case by case basis, and not be judged by the mostly one-and-done peanut gallery who have no knowledge of the situation and possibly no combat experience?
I wonder…