A leak in the pension dam
For decades, I’ve watched unions, both private-sector and public-service, collude with the Democratic Party to boost salaries, benefits, and pensions to levels unattainable to the average non-union American worker, all the time wondering, “How the hell are they ever going to keep that going?” For years, when we encountered one of those big, lumbering, quarter-million-dollar motor homes, my wife and I would joke, “There goes another retired lawyer or doctor.” These days, based on publicly available data, our speculation is that it’s likely a retired cop or fireman.
We visited old college friends a couple of years ago at their very nice home on a lush fairway in the desert southwest. He’s a retired public utility worker and union official, while she’s a school administrator. While he was showing me the yard, I spotted a two-story Spanish Colonial-style mansion across the fairway and observed, “Looks like you have some very well-to-do neighbors.” His response was, “That? Nah, he’s a retired fireman.” Today I spoke with my brother in California about this situation, and he informed me that he has seen on open public records that retired fire department captains in his home town are drawing $130,000 per year from the public trough.
Are you beginning to see my concern?
You don’t have to be an actuary to calculate that the American dream many of these generously retired union workers, especially those from the public-service unions, are living is completely unsustainable, assuredly for coming generations, but most likely for current retirees as well. And that’s despite all the desperate attempts by the unions’ Democrat cronies to raise taxes, tolls, and public fees to fund the exorbitant salaries, benefits, and pensions of public-service employees and to pressure unionized industries into equally lucrative contracts for their blue-collar workers.
Look at almost any major municipality in the so-called blue states, especially those cities that have been under Democrat control for decades, and you’ll likely find a looming pension crisis; ditto for private sector unions in those same states. But don’t even think about suggesting a reasonable reduction in those salaries, benefits, and pensions to either the totally intransigent unions or their Democrat cronies, who will assure you they have some magical way to accomplish the impossible. There’s a deepening reservoir of impossible-to-keep retirement commitments in those blue states being held back by a dam of desperate and disingenuous Democrat denial.
And now comes what may be a small leak portending that pension dam disaster, which, when it breaks, is going to sweep away generations of American dreams in the fiscal waves and torrents of all that pent up political cronyism and greed. The Washington Post just reported that an ironworkers union in Ohio is doing the unthinkable: reducing benefits to its current pensioners, some by as much as 60%, to prevent the fund from sinking into insolvency as soon as 2024. According to the Post, these ironworkers make up only a tiny slice of the more than a million private-sector workers and retirees whose pension funds are predicted to be insolvent within twenty years. One of the largest, the Central States Pension Fund, which represents some 300,000 truckers, has already tried to reduce pensions but has been stymied in that effort by the federal government, which says the proposed cuts are insufficient to save the fund from insolvency.
It’s a good bet that Chicago will be the first major Democrat stronghold to default on its public-service union retirement commitments, but it’s a sure bet that it is the entire State of California that is sitting on the nuclear incident of pension plan insolvencies, and when that Democrat unicorn reactor ultimately goes critical and melts down, as it most assuredly is going to do, it will shake this nation. We can hope it shakes some sense into Democrats and makes unions think twice about getting too greedy, but based on current attitudes, it’s not likely.
It will be interesting to see if all those retirees who get their fat pensions drastically reduced will still be voting slavishly Democrat when basic math wrapped around the hard fist of reality smacks them hard in the kisser.
Category: Politics
I can’t say I feel good about any retiree getting the rug pulled out from under them. They paid their dues for years. Maybe in hindsight they shouldn’t have believed what he politicians and union schills were telling them, but they did nothing wrong in choosing something that would give them a set future.
Maybe I’m a bit more sympathetic because I’m a triple dipper. If they decide to swing the axe on one or more of my pensions my lifestyle, which is solidly middle class is going to take a 15-20% cut.
You should see what the union reps are getting!!!
The president of the National Education Association is drawing a salary in excess of $500,000. I would imagine that her pension, when she stops ripping off her membership, will be >$250,000.
But, she earned it, the teachers will whine. And that $500K number doesn’t include her benefits.
That can’t happen for a defined benefit pension. See here: https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-participant-employee/retirement-topics-defined-benefit-plan-benefit-limits
For 2017, the annual benefit for a participant under a defined benefit plan cannot exceed the lesser of:
1. 100% of the participant’s average compensation for his or her highest 3 consecutive calendar years, or
2. $215,000
Now, maybe there’s some deferred compensation piece or other defined contribution vehicle that can bring it near $250K, but it would have to be fairly significant.
D, check this out:
http://transparentcalifornia.com/
…and tell us again how it can’t happen.
Poe, those may not be defined benefit plans. The ones I know about are not.
The defined plans are generally more secure than the non-defined plans simply because they have, well, defined benefits, limits, if you will, of upper and lower limits of compensation.
In many ways, our military retirements are defined benefit plans. Doesn’t mean that they are completely secure, just more secure and more difficult to rob, depending upon state law.
Point being that it is a very important distinction.
A defined benefit plan is one with a fixed monthly payout regardless of the performance of the underlying investments which is precisely the problem with these union plans. If retiree benefits fluctuate based on the health of these investments then it is not considered a “defined” benefit.
I hear you, Poe. I don’t like the union controlled pension plans either. Especially I don’t like the ones which throw payments to taxpayers no matter how the plan has been mismanaged.
My personal issue today is with my own, which a nut-case mayor is attempting to place under his control, and ultimately would make taxpayers responsible for whatever he decides I can get instead of what I paid into and have been receiving. Yes, it’s pretty good but has been better when the market was doing better.
My bottom line is having the same people who create a problem offer their solution to what they created. Just keep your meddling hands off it!
Poe:
Many of those amounts given include a one-time DROP payment. Here’s a good overview of those: http://benefitsattorney.com/articles/ria/
In summary, employers consider a Deferred Retirement Option Plan (DROP) to retain employees who would otherwise retire. However, in taking this option there’s an actuarial reduction of their normal benefit (similar to CSB/REDUX).
Funny that you should mention this right now. My defined benefit plan is under attack, being subjected to a hostile takeover attempt. It is disgusting.
Yeah, I am worried.
My FD defined benefit plan was under attack by our State Legislature about 15 years ago, they said it was over funded, guess what they were going to do with what they were calling an excess. Managed to keep their fingers out of the pie and it is still solvent.
The wife and I live comfortably within my retirement, but she still works. We live in a modest home that we built over 20 years ago. We have a small camper, her car is paid for and until last month my vehicle was 14 years old, got a newer one, but not brand new.
Some FD/PD pension plans have not gone bat shit crazy, but live within their means.
That was a similar timeframe to what happened to my plan as well. That battle was won, now some local folks are lying through their teeth, making a mountain out of a mole hill, and creating issues where there actually are none. We now are forced to mount a potentially very expensive lawsuit to fight them. The law is on our side (theoretically – you know that nothing is guaranteed) but it must be proven.
These are the same guys who have already lost several lawsuits against our pensioners and are simply refusing to meet their legal obligations.
You seem almost gleeful that someone would be fucked out of something they earned. I thought the old military adage was be happy for your brother, do not complain, because you will not get their deal. You will only manage to have them lose theirs.
Yes by all means when I think of raising salaries I always think Republican.
I agree. I think it’s somewhat hypocritical to harp on firefighter and police pensions when we in the military get those same benefits and more. Not saying that it’s unearned, far from it. I just don’t agree with picking on FD and PD, who arguably put their lives on the line more often than the average military member has to(not every soldier is a grunt). Yes, it’s expensive. But it’s well worth it. If you don’t think so, feel free to write your favorite congress person a letter and ask them to reduce your pension as well.
If your comment is addressed at me, CB, you’re dead wrong. All I’m doing is pointing out the looming disaster that the unions and Democrats acting in collusion have brought upon the country. You tell me, CB, wouldn’t it be better if there was enough in those pension funds so that ALL future retirees could get a decent retirement check rather than a FEW current retired cops and firefighters living very high on the hog while they drain the fund so that those retiring later are going to get royally screwed?
Furthermore, this has nothing to do with military retirement policies which are established by Congress with both major political parties participating. There is no union/Democrat collusion involved in military retirement programs so that’s a bullshit argument.
And by the way, I was low-balling the fire captains’ retirement pay–there are some in the LA area knocking down over a half million a year. Check this site out:
http://transparentcalifornia.com/
As for the argument that firemen and LEO’s are in high risk professions, they’re not even in the Top 10 as a quick Google search will easily confirm. If the jobs are so dangerous why are there long waiting lists of applicants in these high-paying Blue States I’m writing about? More than 50% of firemen who die on the job die from heart attacks which is a very good argument for them staying in top physical condition which many do not.
Gleeful? You bet I’ll be gleeful to see this Democrat/union scam put out of business but no I don’t want to see future cops and firefighters screwed. I have friends in both occupations. You should save your criticism for the crooked unions and the crooked Democrats and not an honest citizen/veteran like me who’s simply pointing out the ripoff.
You need to get your head out of your ass and see how these jerks are screwing our country instead of your knee-jerk reaction of calling me a jealous buddy fucker.
Poe,
Please do not compare the FD/PD retirement funds in CA to those in the rest of the country. There is no more legitimate comparison between them and the rest of us on this issue than any other. CA is literally “out there” on every other issue, so it should come as no shock that they screwed up this one as well.
Personally, I am very glad that firefighter deaths has trended downward in the past decade or so. They used to battle with coal miners for the most deadly occupation, and did so for many decades.
Poe, I agree with CB, California is it’s own animal. Here in Colorado, we have a statewide Fire / Police pension you earn it at a rate of 2% of your salary for the first ten years, and 2.5% for every year after that. I contribute 12.5% out of each paycheck, and my employer matches that. If you do the math, that works out to working for 34 years to get an 80% pension, which IMHO is not lavish at all, especially considering what 34 years in the fire service does to a body. just my 2c
Guys, just where in my piece did you read a general condemnation of cops and firefighters? I specifically pointed to the problem being in BLUE STATES with the emphasis on Illinois and California. However, there are other major municipalities, again, primarily in BLUE STATES, but not exclusively, where the rates are significantly higher than they are in the rest of the country due to Democrat/Union collusion.
The problem is that the skewed numbers in California and these other high-paying places are making public service unions in other areas of the country think they are entitled to much higher compensation as well and pointing to California as their example.
And, yeah, Fyr, I know Colorado is technically a blue state but just barely. It’s going to be solid blue if you keep importing Californians.
Californians and illegals.. legalizing pot brought a bunch of those “blue” types.. hoping now that Cali has made it legal too, they’ll all go back…
Well in my state the Democrats want to merge our FF/LE pension with the teachers because powers at be in the capital have not funded the teachers that are required by law. Ours funded at 125% teachers 85%. Yes the democrats that you talk about. I left active duty in the Army after returning from VN, tested and became a firefighter, spent 25years on the job get 50% of what a Fire Captain gets now. BUT when you look at the retirees from my department only 1 died of what would be called old age, we have had 4 die from cancer within 3years of their retirement, not much chance to enjoy those high wages. One was my good friend and driver on my Engine, VN vet, maybe Agent Orange, so far not according to the VA. I am recouping from my 2nd heart attack in 9 years. Our former Chief has fought cancer and beat it 3 times. When I started my wages were so low that I had to work 2 jobs and go to school on the GI Bill to make ends meet. Also I think you will find out that most of us both FF and LE’s did not take the job for the retirement, hell I did not even know we would get a retirement, just needed a job to rise my family. So do a Google search on life expectancy for firefighters. Seattle Fire reports that 1 in 3 retirees have some sort of heart or cancer illness.
I never knew it was a rip off to maximize your earnings and try to create a good life for you and your family.
I also did not know you were in charge of determine what was right and proper for all Americans, what other people should be earning and making for retirement.
“We the people in Order to Form a more perfect Union”. I cannot believe our founding Fathers did not see this scam for what it is.
No, if you are not calling balls and strikes equal then you are acting like a jealous buddy fucker.
S&L Too Big to Fail
2008 Crash TOO BIG TO FAIL
Pensions for Millions of Americans Fuck’em.
But isn’t that over paid FF creating jobs by spending his retirement on that house and all his other ill gotten gains.
That’s some real clear thinking there, CB. Because I’m pointing out that future cops and firefighters are going to get screwed out of their pensions because their current “Buddies” are bleeding it dry, I’m a jealous buddy fucker, huh?
You’re like those liberals who yell, “Racist!” anytime someone criticizes Obama.
You don’t happen to be getting one of those fat pensions yourself, draining the fund for future cops or firefighters, are you, CB?
Talk about buddy fucking…
Never once yelled racist when Obama was criticized. Not sure how he got into the mix?
0 for 1
I am not retired, nor am I PD or FF.
0 for 2
Everything ever wrong or evil in this world is Democratic and a Republican has never harmed anything and is always on the side of Angels.
0 for 3, Otherwise know as a strike out.
Oh sorry cannot say strike that is Un-American according to you.
You really think that retired Cop or Firefighter/ or any retiree is responsible for billion dollar pensions failing. No other factors or persons are factors.
Still believe that blame the little guy crap.
You know, CB, you really need to brush up on your reading comprehension. Not only did you not understand the premise of the original article, you’re not doing too well on the comments either–I didn’t say you “yelled” racist, I compared you to the liberals who do. That’s how Obama got into the mix.
Please copy the paragraph from my article where I say that, “Everything wrong or evil in this world is Democratic and a Republican has never harmed anything and is always on the side of Angels.” While you’re at it please include a list of all those Republicans running California.
Lastly , go to that web link I’ve posted multiple times in these comments and tell me that fire captain in LA who has an $800,000.00 annual pension isn’t fucking his fellow firemen. Yeah, when I point out that kind of bullshit, I’m really picking on the little guy, aren’t I?
I have no way of knowing whether you’re retired or not, CB, but it appears your critical thinking skills must be fully so.
Again with the insults. I guess trying to smear me with OBAMA THE BOGGIE MAN is what is called a defense. He must pay rent, because he lives in your head.
Yes you do know I am not retired because I said so. I guess I must be a liar because OBAMA, OBAMA, OBAMA.
Oh my God I said it 3 times it means he is coming back. Run scared and blame everything on him.
TOOOOOOOOO Funny.
I get it, you are happy that Democrats are getting hurt and you hate people exercising their Rights that you do not agree with.
Check. OBAMA, OBAMA. Almost said it 3 time again.
Senior chief, you remind me of an E-7 platoon sergeant I had in Nam. You could take his map and compass and show the stupid SOB that he had us in the wrong place and just might get us all killed and he’d still never admit it.
Like him, you’re a waste of words.
Poetrooper: Never ever have I ever been thought of, compared to, or even remotely associated with being an E7. That is slander in the Navy.
My Troops were my children, my friends, and the best that America had to give. Their protection and care was my proud DUTY that never waivered. Your comparison is as an obscene an insult you could level to a Military Leader.
So, being compared to or even remotely associated with being an E-7 is a slander hmm? You know, Chief, I believe a lot of folks here at TAH might disagree strongly with you on that, like the owner, who’s a retired E-7 platoon sergeant.
Now in your case, I was comparing you to a DUMB E-7 platoon sergeant and that comparison stands. Insult? Hell it was meant to be an insult; at least you’re smart enough to figure that out.
Poe:
I had to revisit this, but I think you missed the part about the one-time DROP payments. Those retired firefighters aren’t getting $500K or $800K per year. They defer the payments to where they receive a lump sum at retirement and, in return, receive a reduced regular benefit.
All is not necessarily rosy for retirees in California, Poe. There’s quite a bit of variation between different municipalities and the state. PERS is doing okay for the time being, though we’ve discovered in recent years that it’s nowhere near as bombproof as they’ve claimed. I can only speak for my own department, which pays significantly less than almost every other one in California–the flip side is that we get full medical, which of course is nice. Don’t get me wrong here, I’m a third-gen firefighter, so I definitely don’t expect to become a millionaire doing this job. And I’ve got another 17 years before I’m even eligible to retire. Retirement age when I got hired as a pup of 18 years was still 50, so I’m grandfathered. It’s since been bumped to 55 for guys who got jobs after I did, and 57 has been threatened at times. Ironically, despite working for an outfit about which a big deal has been made recently over how we’re one of the lowest-paid fire departments in California, I often see people on the internet talking about how overpaid we are, just going by raw numbers. And it’s true that as a company officer, I’ve made just over 100K per year for the last four. What the watchdog crowd doesn’t mention is the total hours worked to get paid that much, a significant portion of which is “involuntary overtime,” in other words, things like “staffing pattern, days off cancelled” during the summer, or the year-round headache of “sorry, but they politicians decided to ‘save money’ by forcing us to run shorthanded without reducing mandatory minimum staffing levels, so we don’t have relief for you today,” which happens a lot and costs the state more in overtime pay than it would to hire a couple more guys (democrat logic: we’ll save money by spending more money! ). So when my W-2 says $101,342.00, it’s decidedly less impressive when my timesheets for the same year show a four-month period in which I had a grand total of three days off. For the record, my department’s… Read more »
Whitey, I hope you understand, unlike that close-minded character above, CB Senior, that I’m not denigrating the firefighters as a whole nor LEO’s, but simply pointing out that a few in your system are about to screw it up big-time major for all the rest of you. And while most departments don’t pay such salaries and benefits, more and more of them are pointing out those that do in their demands for ever higher pay and benefits. I deliberately low-balled that $130,000 fire captain in my piece because I knew that was closer to the middle than some LA captains retired at over a half million a year.
My beef is not with firefighters but with those in the profession who use the Union/Democrat collusion to screw the majority of those coming after them.
I also understand the risks associated with both professions and like everyone here at TAH am thankful that we have you there for us. And yep, I have those bad knees as well as really bad shoulders from a training accident that was never documented and for which I’ve never bothered to file a VA claim.
You make your case well, Whitey, as you always do.
Just remembered when I wrote a piece here at TAH a few years back critical of dispatching SWAT teams and armored vehicles to deliver warrants, killing innocents in the process. It was a few of the LEO’s who critical then like CB and Joe are this time. But more were in agreement.
I get it, Poe, but there’s another side to that one, too, and it’s been biting my department hard in the ass. That other side is that we hire eager and talented young lads and lassies, train them at great expense, and suddenly they’re off to greener pastures in one of several municipal departments whose probie firefighters pull down as much as a top-step battalion chief in this outfit. It costs $50 grand to put someone through our Firefighter-II academy. Promoting someone to Engineer requires another $60K. That doesn’t include dozens of other courses like Swiftwater/Floodwater Rescue, Truck Academy, various Rescue Systems classes, Investigation, Wildland Fire Behavior calcs, etc. All told, it’s probably safe to say that the taxpayers are close to a quarter-million dollars deep into training me to do my job. At that point, retention (return on their investment, so to speak) becomes a real issue. What good does it do for the population we serve when we sink that much money into training someone, only to have them get a better offer from Oakland, Alameda, or Manhattan Beach, who know they won’t have to fund much more than a basic orientation for their new hire? Remember, its employment, not enlistment. There’s no minimum length of service. I’m sort of middle-of-the-road on the union question. On the one hand, unions certainly serve a purpose. For example, my uncle was a cop in Idaho (right-to-work law in effect) until he was recently medically retired for multiple injuries sustained at work over the course of his career (some large-statured assholes fought the law; the law won, but not without taking some lumps in the process). He’s physically broke-down as hell, but gets zero benefits for his disability. He’s ratfucked with no recourse. On the other hand, a successful union will inevitably become self-serving and counterproductive, because once they get everything they wanted in the first place, the union wants to continue justifying its existence, so it demands more, more, MORE. And that’s why we have UAW to thank for the implosion of America’s automotive industry. As for my department, we… Read more »
Just to point out a little misstatement – “And that’s why we have UAW to thank for the implosion of America’s automotive industry.” No, mismanagement at the upper echelons was what did Detroit in. Car pundits saw the writing on the wall back in the 60’s. An absolute refusal by upper management to respond to customer demand (Europe, Japan and Korea were only too glad to fill the gap), the idea that the American consumer was a captive audience and “had to” buy American. No, it wasn’t the unions fault, the workers were betrayed by execs who only looked as far ahead as the next financial quarter.
If you worked in some of those plants you would know how ridiculous your statements really are. Talk with some folks who did work there. It shouldn’t take long to figure out what were the real problems.
To further refute your claim, unionized German auto workers make roughly double what US autoworkers make, and the German auto industry is thriving. VW just became the #1 car maker in the world. No, the problem has little to do with overpaid workers…..
Ask the German unionized auto worker what their take home pays is and how much they give to the Fatherland.
So, Joey, you’re unaware that VW is being fined and having to BUY BACK all those cars it sold with false emissions standards?
Boy, are you DUMB!!
Ever hear of Jimmy Hoffa??? You know where he is? Yeah, neither does anyone else.
You just made Joe’s point. Upper Management falsified all those records, not the workers. If VW is hurt by this it will at the hands of Upper Management not the people building the cars.
Likewise, the UAW did not design the Pinto or the Edsel. It did not chose to use inferior steel in their CAM shafts like GM did for decades. Feel free to blame the workers pay for the US Auto down fall.
Whitey, as someone who once benefited from union membership when I was young, I’m right there with you on being able to see they do have some value. But the ones who have sold their souls to the Devil Democrats are criminal enterprises as far as I’m concerned.
As to your voting Republican, individual members may vote Republican but all of the big-money union contributions and public endorsements are going to Democrats, regardless of how the membership feels and votes.
Lefties like Joe can defend the UAW and blame Big Auto execs for the collapse of the American auto industry, but the UAW and their contract greed played a big role as well.
BTW, if you haven’t seen this, it’s a very good argument for the higher pay and pensions of firefighters;
http://www.iaff1775.org/the-truth-about-firefighter-retirement-and-pensions
Believe me, Whitey, I’m not interested in shorting anybody; conversely, that is precisely why I wrote the piece because I can see it coming for a lot of good folks.
‘It’s a good bet that Chicago will be the first major Democrat stronghold to default on its public-service union retirement commitments….’
A good bet? No, it’s a sure thing. Preckwinkle is facing a deficit in Cook County funds and compensates by a tax on sodas. I just got something in the mail yesterday about a 75% tax on large sodas.
Yes, that’s correct: a 75 percent tax on large sodas.
Well, since I don’t have to drink that stuff, which isn’t good for you anyway, I won’t miss it and I’ll hang onto my cash. It will probably put a crimp in sales at fast food joints, but will it do anything to canned beverages? Don’t know. I’ll stick with tea, milk, juice, and all those other things that are supposed to be good for you.
Gee, and I can remember when a coke was a dime, plus the nickel deposit which you got back when you returned the bottle.
Chicago and Cook county would make a whole lot more money with a 75% tax on Malt Liquor.
Just sayin’.
Or ammo for the gang-bangers.
Gang-bangers pay actual money for ammo? To legit sellers?
IL already requires a permit to buy ammo, which the bangers get around by going to WI or IN.
What is even more amazing is that some of the retired firemen and LEO’s have been retired and collecting their defined benefit pensions since they were in their early 50’s. I have a neighbor who retired as a fire captain when he was 52, about 20 years ago. And yes, he does have a nice house, a large motorhome and lots of toys. He spends his winters in Arizona.
A young (probably about 40 years old) LEO I know plans to retire when he is 50-52 with 27+ years of service and he will receive about 80% of his salary. Of course he plans to keep on working for another ten years or so, just not as a cop.
I know a fellow who started as a cop in a very low-crime but high-income area. The year he started, he was one of 10,000 applicants for a handful of jobs, thanks to the sky-high salaries. That’s ended now. It had to end. It just couldn’t be sustained.
The remedy suggested in the few articles I looked at is government funding, meaning taxpayer-funded bailouts. There is a pension insurance fund but it pays around $35/month for each year worked. It, too, is being drained. Government funding of private pensions? No, I don’t think so. Many people would be living the life of Riley right now if they had those decades of social security taxes to invest for themselves. For years, the can was kicked down the road. Eventually, the road ends.
If the pension Benefit Guaranty Corp continues on its present course, it, too, will be insolvent by 2025.
Yep.
I would not say Chicago is going to be the first. Dallas Fire and PD pension will be them too it. I’m from Dallas and all the people that were close to retiring jumped ship because they thought the money was going to run out.
I put in my 20 with a Texas school district as a computer programmer. I retired at 80% of my state salary – which was far less than what open market was paying.
I’m still paying down the mortgage on a house built in the 1980’s that needs a lot of work. We drive 2nd-hand vehicles that have over 100k miles. Thank to Obamacare our health insurance deductibles and premiums keep going up.
I had to take another fill-time job to finish paying off the mortgage, and take care of my brother after his stroke. Travel ran my car out so we had to get another used car for me to get to work.
I get different signals from different groups about the pension funds and their funding. From my standpoint, ‘extravagant’ does not describe my pension.
If we who live frugally are struggling with our pensions, what are others going through?
What I suspect is that this is something that varies from state to state and – at least in Texas – from region to region. If the City of Dallas let the union bosses drag them down – let the union pay for it. But those on the state teacher’s retirements are not (usually?) the ones getting fat pensions.
“I retired at 80% of my state salary – which was far less than what open market was paying.” I assume you mean that your salary was far less than the private sector. Of course, no one who works for 20 years in the private sector will be retiring at 80% of his salary. Nor will he receive an exemption, as some states provide, from state income taxes on gov’t (fed, state, or local) pensions. As for your situation, what you described is essentially middle-class life. It can suck, but I guess it’s all a matter of perspective. If you’re cars are running well, who cares that they’re not new? You own them and can afford to pay the insurance and gas for them. And that’s a good thing.
2/17 – I started to say “free world” but “private sector” is probably the better word.
In the private sector I could have at one point easily tripled or quadrupled my salary. If I wanted to relocate and/or travel I could double my salary today. Proper investments could then have allowed us a much more comfortable retirement. The state job allowed me to raise my kids and volunteer in Scouting for 20+ years instead.
Texas has no state income taxes, so that is a wash between public and private pensions.
My intended point was that as a state pensioner I am no where near being able to afford one of those $65k (or more) motor homes, or a $110k brick house with pool, or what have you.
We live in one of the poorer counties. Most of the jobs here are either in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice (correctional officers are not all that highly paid) or the local university – and the untenured and adjunct professors don’t really make that different a salary from the correctional officers.
As a state employee/retiree, I had the privilege of working in moldy buildings where the a/c often is down. Today, in a 3-story building, we are down to one men’s room and one women’s room for the entire building, with no assurance of when the other restrooms will be repaired.
In other words – not much different than what I understand most of the military has to put up with on a regular basis.
I do not mean to sound like I’m complaining. Without ever being “higher” than lower-middle-class, we were able to buy enough land for our three kids, their spouses (spice?) and the grandkids to live next to us, saving them housing expenses. The houses we are in are all in need of a lot of repair – and are on the lowest valuation possible on the tax rolls because of it. Shacks, in most folks’ estimation. But we are happy together, and I wouldn’t trade that for all of Bill Gates’ money.
Graybeard, perhaps I should have put BLUE STATES in all caps in the original piece. The whole point of my writing is that a few Democrats and a few unions operating in those BLUE STATES are screwing the hell out of ordinary folks.
As for those professors in your home town, show ’em this website:
http://transparentcalifornia.com/
…and watch ’em weep over the incredible pensions professors are knocking down in California. They’re doing even better than the fire captains.
To be honest, I was so busy fighting rats at work yesterday that I didn’t read as carefully as I ought to have.
I think on some level I caught your original intent – sorry for not being alert and attentive at my post.
I’ll go guard the flagpole now.
I’m still laughing at the brick house with pool for $110K.. in Harris County? Where, Greenspoint?
and just as an observation from someone once cursed with an auto industry job… the moment you drive a car off the lot it is a used car.
The article above is very timely for folks in Houston whose reputedly almost-bankrupt FD and HPD retirement funds are in the process of renegotiation.
“the moment you drive a car off the lot it is a used car.” The moment you sign as the owner it’s a used car. You could have it towed from the lot and not a put a mile on it. Not start it. Nothing. It isn’t a new car the moment it’s purchased.
I learned over the years and now I would have a new car IF someone gave one to me. Except a Prius.
All state pension funds are under funded, some worse than others. If you work for a state or local gov’t and are facing retirement, with fear of future post-retirement payment reductions, look at your options. Your retirement plan likely offers various options, including a cash-out, lump sum retirement benefit. If so, you can grab the cash and roll it into an IRA, paying taxes only on what you draw from it.
check out my post at the bottom, Indiana PERF is in great shape
It should instructive to watch what happens in Wisconsin the next 5 or 10 year after Governor Walker forced civil service unions to start contributing to their health & retirement funds.
Michigan had to pass a law to force cities(Detroit, mostly) to fund their pension funds. Detroit kept saying “next year, just let us get past this one problem”, and they’d raid the police/fire pension funds. And never pay back what they’d stolen.
The city I worked for tried that, the FOP took them to court and the judge, and the appellate judges told them, pay up, on time every two weeks, just like the employees have to. The wailing and gnashing of teeth was loud. They couldn’t fund their neighborhood centers, and rec programs, and needles for dopers.
Thank God I listened to my Dad and established a 401(k). Private sector I.T. admin, no pensions here, and Social (In)Security probably won’t even be enough to pay my property taxes. If it’s there at all. I feel bad for the (majority) of people that paid into union pensions all their lives, only to see them evaporate into golden parachutes for the ones with “pull” and “clout”. Not to mention out-and-out fraud.
Police, Fire, and city workers took a pension hit in Detroit in the bankruptcy a couple of years ago. Had to feel sorry for them but the money just wasn’t there.
Then again, I’m a retiree from a pretty large corporation. I was still able to get a pension but it’s probably half what it would have been if I’d started with the company 5 years sooner and worked the same number of years.
Yeah, the pensions are all too generous, blah blah blah, until you need cops or firefighters or other civil servants who are there when you need them, 24/7/365. It”s all part of the bargain we agreed to. I think poetrooper is just expressing sour grapes that he went into the wrong line of work.
You might appear more credible if you a)paid attention to what the man actually said, and b)grasped the concept of excessive pensions. No one objects to a decent pension for a first responder. What we object to is $150k / year pensions.
And, please, when are anyone but first responders available 24/7/365? You beclowned yourself by including “civil servants” in that claim, especially given the the number of paid Federal holidays they get, not to mention sick days, etc. That’s not to mention it’s almost impossible to fire an incompetent “civil servant.”
You’re usually a tad more astute than this, Joe. There’s no real problem with all those pension funds going bust, and leaving future retirees holding the bag, it’s just Ol’ Poe and his sour grapes, huh?
That’s some serious critical analysis, Joe.
When has Joey, the Rock-Climbing Hero, ever been that astute?
He should stick to his one liner incomplete thought posts followed by his multiple periods (or ellipsis for the erudite).
The first 4 years I worked for the only union milk hauler in New England I did the work , I paid my dues but the union failed to collect the pension funds. They collected some but not all and they said I had a break in service. They kept the monies that were collected and I got nothing. After 30 years I ended up with 26 years of contributory service. Not bad but not what it should have been. I guess I am blessed to have had steady employment for all that time.
My son in law is a FF in a city of about 150k.
The have a “board” that watches over their retirement fund, a mix of retired and active FFs.
The city tried to “take over” their retirement fund and “mingle” it with the city’s retirement fund.
Every FF there told to stick it where the sun don’t shine and that if the city looked like they would ever get their fund they’d all walk out, retire and cash out.
These guys have a pretty darned good setup for a retirement plan. The smart opt for “the max”, meaning that after 25 years they will walk away with what there salary was at retirement. Of course they have to put in quite a bit more each payday than the guy who opts for 50%. But, some plan for “down the road.”
Oh, and did I say I hate unions?!
They’ve outlived their usefulness.
My brother retired as a CSM in 2002. Went back to SE Ala-damned-bama. Applied for several civil service jobs, but no joy.
Got hired on as a contract gate guard, union. Preached all out how great it was. Then a couple or 3 years later had a run in. Went to his union rep, got no support. Later ran for & elected to position of union steward.
Had guys & gals coming to him all the time with some “complaint” or another but only a “verbal.” He’d try to get them to fill out the proper forms so he could file the complaint & they’d refuse. Me. I’d of dropped right there.
But, being the nice guy he is he’d try to pursue it & get his butt handed to him.
He quit the whole she-bang after about 6 months.
Now he’s a happy camper. He & another retired CSM started a small engine repair business & cant stay ahead of the work.
Unions are one of the biggest scams currently operating in the U.S.A.
Despise them.
If Baby Boomers hadn’t mismanaged the everything they got their hands on we wouldn’t be in this situation. Check out these youtube videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWALLEWQHCE
Who is this hooded douche? He obviously doesn’t have to worry about a pension because one has to have a JOB first before the issue of a pension comes into play. He talks like the unemployed OWS crowd. Too bad his mommy didn’t swallow.
This is the problem with people who’ve never had to actually create wealth making deals with other people who’ve never actually had to create wealth. When you can take be force of law the wealth of others and give it to those who’ve never created wealth in the public sector it always seems an easy fix to just take more rather than address a sad reality of life, that no Ponzi scheme ever really pays off… Had the government entities involved actually studied methods of funding their retirement programs beyond excessive taxation they might have been able to sustain the programs for the life of the retiree. When they were busy stealing the money nobody said a fucking word about it in those cities. In Detroit you can see exactly what happens when you over tax, people just fucking leave your shit city and say fuck you. Now those poor bastards left behind who were busy sucking on the public tit are suddenly faced with what that really means when the tit gets smaller and is in danger of running out…when you lose two thirds of your population you’re going to lose your tax based plans, whether it’s fair or not, whether it’s pleasant or not, whether you like it or not. The government has acted as though we the business owners of America are a giant fucking piggy bank they can keep robbing whenever they need to give someone a raise or pay for an additional service. They never stop to think whether or not I can raise my prices to accommodate the new tax law or if my only means of paying the new rate is to shit can an employee or take less profit myself because of a competitive low market economy the same stupid fucking politicians created when they made NAFTA a law and proclaimed China a free trade partner…when one of my customers tells me that a job worth $250,000 can be done in China, shipped back to the US for $220,000 so that’s what they will do I need to figure out how to… Read more »
Understand and completely agree with your sentiments, VOV. That is precisely why I opted to remain with my agency when given other opportunities – the pension plan I remained in did not suck unearned rewards from others nor did it expect folks with no skin in the game to contribute to our future earnings.
Yes, it’s complicated, and another one size does NOT fit all. I did my part and expect only that the idiots now trying to dip into my pension plan to fund their wish lists leave my retirement fund alone, as is required by law. I took a couple of pay freezes, even temporary reductions in pay to fund them when working. They just see some big bucks and they want them.
OWB, I don’t begrudge those folks the high pensions if that’s what they were promised as part of their deal.
My point was regardless of what was promised the politicians never properly or legally funded the promise. If I tried that shit with my employees I’d be spending time in an 8×10 for several years for stealing from my employees. We contract out the 401(k) stuff to a company that handles all legal aspects and monies. I make my contributions and I stay away from any decisions….I prefer not being in prison.
Because the funds were never properly funded those people are about to get screwed, I am truly saddened by that because once again the folks who did what was promised aren’t going to see what was promised. But that’s what comes of voting the same assholes in year after year who don’t hold themselves to the same letter of the law they expect you to be held to every day.
“These cities are just now discovering the reality behind their idiotic fiscal policies. Sadly the wrong people will now pay the price, but the wrong people always pay the price in the United States.”
Spot on….
Pretty color graphs and other data concerning state pension funds… it’s not pretty:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/25/state-pension-fund-gap-to-top-1-trillion.html
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/14/state-pension-funds-are-awash-in-red-ink-heres-your-share.html
http://graphics.wsj.com/table/Connecticut_102015
A recent story about CALPERS
http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2016/12/20/calpers-cuts-pension-benefits-for-first-time.html
Ive been a police officer in Indiana for 22 years, we fall under a state pension called PERF, at 20 years service, we will draw 50% of a first class patrolman’s pay starting at 52. You can add 2% a year to that percentage up to 76%(max out out at 38 years) I plan on putting in 26 years, will draw 30,000 a year from pension…our pension fund is in great financial shape.. as matter of fact, the state has cut the municipalities percent they have to contribute to our pension due to it…doesn’t matter rank u held, chief will draw same percentage
That’s an absolute rarity. Fresno is another that is in A1 shape. As far as states go, only one state’s pension system is at least 50% funded: Wisconsin. That’s as of last October.
Now this is an unexcessive system. Just so’s Joe can have an example. 🙂