How the Navy ended ratings
Bobo sends us a link from the Navy Times which tells the story of how the Navy went around the force to eliminate their ranks and ratings system. Basically, it was pretty cowardly. They made a guy who was retiring make the tough choices for them, and then announced the changes after he was gone;
Beyond a small working group, convened this past summer and led by then-Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Mike Stevens, next-to no one in the Navy saw this change coming, sources with knowledge of the decision-making process say. And it’s been received with near universal contempt by sailors past and present. Stevens, who retired in September after four years in the top enlisted post, has discussed that process at length with Navy Times going back to the summer. Stevens said he had full support from the service’s top admiral, Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson, and Chief of Naval Personnel Vice Adm. Robert Burke.
“I felt it was not optional,” Stevens said, “but my duty to lead this effort, knowing all along that there would be controversy attached to it.” The former MCPON, as the position is known throughout the service, says he believes the move is necessary and that now Navy leaders “must follow through.”
So it wasn’t the result of someone taking charge or showing leadership, it was a bunch of ass-covering political stuff. It worked out for me because I don’t have to Google “Turd-Chaser First Class” to figure out the rank of folks anymore, but the process was devoid of anything you Navy guys can be proud of – and pretty much indicative of what it’s like to work in the Obama Administration Pentagon.
Category: Navy
Sigh….
I will always be OS2.
Except no, because OS2 doesn’t exist anymore. Sorry, bro. Time to move on.
It exists on my DD214, so yes, I will always be OS2.
FC2 now and forever… and MCPON Stevens can choke on a steaming bag of dicks.
Will they still have Snipes and Deckies?
It’s SNIPES, deck apes, airdales, and Seebees…or those terms going by the wayside?
Damn it!!! Seabees…we need and edit button
Obviously I’m not a sailor, but I did have the privilege of serving with them during 25 years in uniform.
I would have never imagined such a decision being made by just one person and a couple of senior officers without first involving several other senior enlisted in some lengthy discussion. After all, it is “our” responsibility to make sure traditions, customs and courtesies remain.
Mike Stevens is a Blue Falcon of the first degree.
More like “Master Blue Falcon”.
Mabus decided that he wanted a legacy before he was ushered out as SECNAV, and had his admirals and a retiring MACPON do his dirty work.
Congratulations, Mabus, your legacy is that you’ve “fundamentally changed” the Navy, and not in a good way. With your ship naming choices, calling Marine leadership liars, and ending a rating tradition that has existed since the navy’s beginnings, you’ve managed to become the worst SECNAV in history.
The legacy he’s leaving behind is a mess for someone else to clean up. It’s kind of like having a house guest who trashes your home, says ‘thanks for a great weekend’ and leaves abruptly. You NEVER want that jackass back in your neighborhood again. Ever.
Mabus fucked the Department of the Navy as well as the Sailors and Marines below him at every turn. That’s his legacy, which of course fits that of his boss perfectly.
What was his prior experience that qualified him for the post? Two years on a ship that was drydocked the entire time. Like I said, you know there was something fishy (no pun intended) when they picked a guy whose claim to fame was having briefly been a “sailor” whose boat wasn’t even in the water.
At least we can laugh about him getting name-dropped as a plague casualty on “The Last Ship.”
“At least we can laugh about him getting name-dropped as a plague casualty on “The Last Ship.””
I didn’t know that. VERY good!
Ol’ Poe says, once a fuckin’ twerp, always a fuckin’ twerp:
http://aquilinefocus.blogspot.com/2010/12/secnavs-imminent-dilemma.html?m=0
My God, did the Navy really allow beards like that? You’d think even if beards were okay there’d still be a grooming standard requiring them to look presentable, not like that scruffy facial fungus in young Ray Mabus’s picture.
I kinda figured that was how it happened.
There is no way he brought this up to his Fleet and Force Master Chiefs.
Retired Master Chief Stevens might be a yes man, but a room full of Master Chiefs would have set him straight.
Still an unbelievably stupid decision.
Master Chief Stevens…
Say my name.
Yep, that’s precisely what I was thinking.
A room full of Master Chief’s would’ve set his ass strait and flushed that idea.
It’s fuggin’ sad what’s happening to the military these days.
The problem is, most of the Master Chiefs at the Fleet/Force level are political animals (aka: yes men).
If Stevens would have gone down to the deckplates and talked with people, he would have been told to pull his head out of his ass and walk away from this bullshit. I’m guessing that he didn’t because Mabus has his balls in the upper left desk drawer.
Ahhh, you cannot say “man” anymore! It is guys like you who oppress females, transgenders, multi genders and fender-benders by referring to them as men!
My Father, Grandfather, and Great Grand Father were all career Sailors…..this just seems wrong on so many levels.
I’m confused as to what “problem” this decision was a “solution” for?
I know Navy ratings can be obscure to us Army guys but you don’t just dump a couple centuries worth of tradition without at least some discussion.
“I know Navy ratings can be obscure to us Army guys….” Obscure? The daily codes for Enigma were easier to break than Navy ratings.
Invest in a Blue Jacket’s manual. You’ll be an expert in no time!
How much discussion was there before ANY of oBaMa’s institution-destroying changes were effected. I’m not referring to the notice and comment period for regs. I’m not talking about the scripted town-hall chats, either. There’s a reason this is called the imperial presidency and he The Emperor. This is what many of us have been screaming about for years now.
And any of you who want to see this kind of politically correct crap continue, vote for anyone but Trump or just stay home on election day. A vote for Clinton, Johnson or Stein or a no vote is one and the same, a vote for continued liberal insanity. None of those three has any fondness for our military. A write in vote, a no vote or staying at at home is the same as a vote against our military.
Just sayin’…
When I first volunteered in an election and counted votes, I was astounded at the idiots who threw their votes away by writing in “Mickey Mouse” or something similar.
They were always counted as “no vote.”
The “problem” is that the Navy had a tradition that, strange as it seemed to some outsiders, worked just fine for them, and we can’t have that!
This bullshit is right up there with the chickified “Ghostbusters” reboot in terms of assininity.
It’s interesting how the marketplace can have a voice in the feedback loop. The chickified Ghostbusters is projected to lose around $70 million.
Ha! And people say there’s no God…
A lot of the rates had the evil word “man” in them.
So, your saying the Master Chief didn’t have the ability to man up?
Mabus had his balls in a glass jar or in his desk drawer… he voluntarily gave them up to be MCPON.
We all know Ray Mabus sits down to pee. How many others at that level of the Navy have to as well?
Well, okay, Martinjmpr, if someone asked you what your ‘job’ was in the Army, and knew nothing about the Army, would you give him your MOS or the ‘job’ title? If you’re a rifleman, wouldn’t you say so, instead of confusing the unknowing with codes that mean nothing? If you were an ‘arty guy’, wouldn’t you say “in artillery”?
When people have asked me what I did in the Navy, I said I was a photographer. Yeoman YN and Personnelman PN are clerical jobs, Hospital Corpsmen are HM are basically medics with field specialties, and so on. And nobody has any idea what a Bosun’s Mate does, except for the Bosuns themselves.
You don’t have to know the codes, just the basis job description.
LOL. Easy to say when you’re infantry or a tank driver in the Army.
I tell people I’m Civil Affairs and 90% of the time they’re like, “huh?” Some think its public affairs, some think its a legal thing, some thing its just a staff job at Corps and higher level, etc.
Speaking of which, are the Marines going to do away with ‘rifleman’ or are they going to continue with gender-biased terms that offend, exclude and suppress certain groups?
See how it works? It’s only a matter of time now.
The military naming convention can be confusing to civilians types. Example: I worked with guy that told people he was ‘radar operator’ because when he said Operations Specialist most people thought he some sort of medic that assisted Doctors during operations, and he was tired of explaining every time.
As a former AD1(AW), I can only hang my head in shame at this travesty.
Makes me wonder if the next step is telling the sailors they can’t use their warfare designations (SS/SW/AW/FMF…) I can see it now… “Well, not every sailor has a warfare designation and it isn’t fair to them that you have one, so we need to take it away from you so everyone is equally the same.”
ET2/SS FOREVER!
Amen. I can see it now:
“Hey there, 3363 SEA, your hair is a bit long!”
Except that every sailor does have the opportunity to get a warfare designator now. The Navy has gotten almost as badge happy as the USAF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badges_of_the_United_States_Navy
In fact, they’ve gotten so bad that if you haven’t gotten a warfare badge during your first enlistment, unless you’re in a shore duty billet, you’re not allowed to reenlist.
Imagine if the surface/aviation pukes had quals like boat qual process, and kicked out anyone not qualified after a year.
Yeah, I know. Never happen.
I think that we had one failure to qualify in the 4 years that I was on a submarine. He ended up going to the tender.
I do remember hearing that no one would get past the chief’s board without a badge. I guess that the Navy’s answer was to make a badge for everyone.
When I was active duty the word going around was you would never make Chief or higher (E-7 and above for you ground pounders out there) if you didn’t have a warfare pin. I suppose that was back when it was a little harder to get one (other than SS) then simply buying a box of Cracker Jacks.
No, don’t take away the warfare device!!!
Look. This isn’t rocket surgery. It’s oBaMa. When it came to radically transforming things, he wasn’t talking about the White House draperies. If it’s tradition, if it’s institutional, it is targeted. The only lasting legacy is that which changes institutions, whether it be the institution of marriage or time-honored military tradition.
You can take the Soviet out of the Russian, but you can’t take the Russian out of the Soviet.
Retirement? Not so fast Master Chief.
I have spoken with retired and former sailors, male and female, who are really scratching their heads at this. The rating identification, while odd to the other services, was the naval distinction, that is, it intentionally set us apart from our brothers and sisters in arms. This distinction was an obstacle in the homogenization of the military services, no one different, everyone an E-something or an O-something. The Flags don’t care, it’s a pain in the ass to them to remember all that alphabet soup that the little people have. The new force members want a safe space, and this gives them the neutral perspective that they seem to be comfortable with. Sad, very sad, but please remember that there are a lot of really good sailors, soldiers, airmen and marines waking up every day to protect us from external threats – but who protects them from the internal madness?
Hmmm, I see that they didn’t change Admiral or other top shelf titles…
I have a suggestion…
How about ASSHOLE CLASS ONE
ASSHOLE CLASS TWO.
ETC
ETC
ETC
TPK, is that you ? You hit the nail on the head – there will be a Chain Of Command, but nobody will know what others are organizationally or individually required to accomplish/progress/train to.
Nobody will know what the heck is going on.
I cannot help but notice an absense of “screw this bullcrap! I will resign first!” Or “with all due respect sir, this goes straight to congrescritter X unless withdrawn. Sir.”
Much to ask, i know.
Kratman has a point. Whoever starts out to un-fuck the DoD may have to start from scratch.
I WAS an SR, HA, HN, HM3/2/1, Doc, Corpsman and WILL ALWAYS BE a Chief Petty Officer (CPO/HMC) … and not some imaginary bullshit honorary CPO, either. I know what/who I am and I don’t need bean counters to tell me otherwise. When I visit base or see a Sailor in the community, I address them appropriately, by pay grade and, where possible, their rating.
During VN there was a thought among the JCOS to resign en masse. They never found the stones, though. Would have been nice if only to demonstrate to the country that some felt the war was being prosecuted improperly. Johnson, being the Alpha Male he was, would simply have replaced them and, IMO, little would have changed. The carnage would have continued.
Yeah, another damn Republican doing whatever he wants while in office…..
Wait, what? He was a Democrat? Oh, well it was Bush’s fault. Or Congress’ fault then….
For the record, Turd Chaser First Class is TRD(C)1.
Stevens is just covering his own ass in this, nothing else, because he’s getting piped over the side now. It’s just a pity that the gangplank he’s traversing has land at the end of it.
https://youtu.be/fNaQS3vDQc4
PH: Isn’t that Bernath’s pay grade and rating?
No, his is some other thing. I think they did away with the Powder Monkey and Coal Shoveler rates, though.
Nah, Ex-PH2… he’s a Turd Snarfer First Class.
🙂 🙂 🙂
This has got to be the ostensive definition of “ClusterF*ck”.
I like to poke fun at my anchor-clanker brother and nephew, but this goes beyond the pale.
They should have hired the LT captured in Iran to do it. Cowardly is his name.
E-10 Mike Stevens is the motherfucking political cocksucking asshole that did away with CPO initiation/season-of-pride/induction:
https://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/03/02/mcpon-chief-induction-cpo-season-navy/24015575/
As Mabus’ bitch boy, he’s done enough to fuck Sailors during his four years as MCPON. I bet that he’s got a wonderful job lined up for himself at some “think tank” or “advisor” for some company that fucks over the military and the troops.
Yeah, the guy sounds like a dyed-in-the-wool head banger. No, not that kind, the other kind–where he keeps banging his head on the underside of Mabus’s desk. What a joke. His explanation for tradition being whatever one wants it to be is laughable. What an asshole.
And these are the types of assholes who are rewarded and promoted within The Emperor’s kingdom. Tradition? Oh, that means nothing, really. Besides, tradition that has only been around for 60 or 70 years doesn’t meet my defintion of tradition. What an asshole.
Some of the rates that went down the crapper with this decision have been around since the Navy was established in 1775. Stevens wouldn’t know tradition if it came up to him and bitch-slapped him in the face.
If John Adams, John Paul Jones, John Barry, Stephen Decatur, Dewey and other famous Naval Leaders were alive, Mabus and Stevens would be lashed to a grate and given 50 with the “cat” for this bullshit.
‘eat raw eggs through a condom’, huh?
Well, if that was given to me, I would promptly vomit the eggs right back into the faces of all and present and make them clean it up.
When I was initiated, I threw up on my CMC… he was a political prick animal who had a few “skeletons in the closet”.
I learned long ago.
There are two types of E-9s. Those that “think” they can make E-10 and those that know they can’t make E-10.
Everyday that passes, more and more E-9s seem to think they will BE an E-10 someday.
The ones that KNOW they can’t make E-10 tell the boss his idea is dumb and smack him in the face if need be to get him to understand it.
The ones that think they can make E-10, are the butt kissing politicians who will DO whatever the boss says.
And yes, without realizing it until after I mostly wrote it out, I added in the “Be, Know, Do” of being a Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO). I added the emphasis after the fact.
How many gay weddings was he privileged to attend during his tenure? How many times was he able to take to task someone who made a risque joke? Lackey. Ass kisser. And if the SOB ever admitted he actually believed half the bullshit he spewed, he ought to be horse whipped for being THAT stupid.
I’m still confused Lol…
This reminds me of when the Army changed MOS numbers. They decided to change the enlisted MOSC’s to match the officer MOSC’s which affected over 400,000 enlisted Soldiers, instead of the less than 100,000 officers
Change for the sake of change does not bode well for morale….
Hey now, you can’t make officers feel any pain. They have so much trouble for the amount of money they get, poor officers. I don’t know how they can handle it myself.
Flexibility for what? So some snot nosed E3 can wake up one day and say they do not like their rate and wants to go back to A school.
Like the old saying goes, “When you have 2 Quarterbacks, you have none”. Jack of all Trades, Master of NONE.
We specialize because we need specific talents in specific areas.
Second, why the f**k are we worried about their skills when they separate. It is the Navy not an employment office.
Construction Mechanic Senior Chief forever.
I was (and still am) proud that I served as a Hospital Corpsman for 26 years! Mabus and Stevens will never be able to take that away from me!
Senior Chief Hospital Corpsman (Fleet Marine Force) – Tested and Initiated and proud of it!
Doc,
Well said.
Marines are still going to call for a Corpsman, regardless of what SECNAV Mabus says.
‘Navy Corpsman: Usually a young, long haired, bearded, Marine-hatin’ Sailor with certain medical skills, who will go through the very gates of Hell to get to a wounded Marine.’
– Major Gene Duncan USMC(Ret) –
Semper Fidelis.
My hats off to you, Senior Chief!???
Stevens comes off as a prissy, self-serving shit who doesn’t really give a damn about anything but an atta-boy from higher up. I hope he enjoys his retirement. Being ignore should be a new experience for him.
Stevens E-10 all the way. Wonder why he was picked, BUM.
Who ever Initiated this E7, I hope is calling him and curb stomping him.
He got a Happy Meal and “Kumbaya” for his “initiation”. It wouldn’t surprise me if opted out of initiation, because it would hurt his feelings…
Was there a toy in that Happy Meal?
The Chief’s anchors were the toy.
You all need to quit clinging to your “god, guns and tradition”. The Progressives are in charge now. They will change everything for the better. We are about to have the glass ceiling shattered by electing a Progressive woman who has utter disgust for men in uniform. Relax everyone we will have it, girls in the Infantry, and submarines. The war on women will come to an end in January 2017!YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWW (channeling Howard Dean)
It’s what we used to call “seagull management”. Some new clown flies in, shits all over everything and makes a lot of noise, then flies off, leaving the rest of us to clean up the mess.
Look at me, I’m in charge, and I’m gonna change everything, just because I can. So there! Plus, it actually looks like I’m doing something. Yeah, that’s it. Suuuure!
Even Master Chief of the Navy doesn’t just initiate a decision that will drastically change the Navy without someone higher telling him to.
“He can’t even blow his nose, without permission….”
Da Fukk?!?
Ok, for us non water types can someone explain what he did? What are rateings and what the fuck is going on here?
After that, can anyone explain what is trying to be accomplished except to piss off an entire arm of our military. Is there any upside?
If this clown was retiring why did he have to do anything. Tell the others to screw themselves and retire
1. Ratings were a way to tell what a person’s job is at the same time telling you what their rank is.
For instance, I was an EM2. (Electrician’s Mate, second class.) This means I am an electrician, with E-5 rank. (Petty officer 2nd class is E-5 in the navy.) Each rate had their own rating badge, an easily identifable symbol included into their rank patch on their sleeve. Ratings were a very convenient way to distinguish what someone did and how high up the chain they were just by looking at their sleeve.
2. No upside. I’m imagining that this bullshit is Mabus’ way of doing the dirty work of reforming the rating system to make it more “gender neutral”, because that’s all the rage with leftist twats these days. Some ratings ended in “man”, like yeoman. That is probably super offensive to sailors who consider themselves trans-species felines or some shit.
3. Because MCPONS are political appointees and political appointees do the bidding of their masters. This dipshit was appointed to “reform” the navy for leftist purposes, nothing more.
Fuck Ray Mabus.
I think it’s high time the Navy did away with the term sailor. Who the hell sails in the Navy except USNA types on the Severn river and whoever is on board the USS Constitution? I am rather surprised the oBaMa Cell didn’t do this too. And seaman has to go too. Not just because of the ‘man’ but what about those who travel oceans and rivers? Hmmmm.
Boaters? Shipsters?
I’m rather partial to shipsters myself.
Waterperson?
I think Stevens is in for a bit of culture shock, depending where he winds up in civilian life. He ain’t the HMFIC any more, just as I am no longer an AW1 (Aviation ASW Operator, First Class) but a fairly senior GS (well, DP04, but that’s another story!). The point is those who come into the civilian workforce with attitudes soon get those attitudes adjusted. Sometimes painfully.
He was a civilian under contract when he came up with this brainstorm. He can spend the rest of his life saying, “Boy, I fucked the Navy good!”
I can hear it now from the Grunts in a firefight:
“Junior enlisted Navy person come forward to render aid. I have been wounded.”
I wonder if the Grunts will get in the jackpot if they holler, ‘Corpsman Up!’
Sad. My Father is buried with a VA plaque on his gravesite that proclaims he was a MoMM2 (Motor Machinist Mate Second Class). He served onboard the LCI(L) 1094. A landing craft, much too big to be carried by a ship, but too small to even have a real name. He rode her through the closing days of WWII to Iwo Jima and back home again. He took great pride in informing me (especially after I made First Class) that, by the time they set sail home, he was the acting Chief of the Engine Room. It was his stories that helped lead me to join the Navy in the 70’s and serve on Submarines. It pains me that the Crow with its rate embroidered on it that he and I took such pride in has just been unceremoniously shit canned by the Navy.
BOHICA
E-10 of the Navy can suck my high hard one. RadioMAN forever.
There was an recruiting station up the street from my childhood home.
Out front of that station stood an old metal sign frame. Within that frame was a weathered recruiting sign with an image built around a single,simple word. Combined, the message extolled a profoundly important value and message.
That painted image depicted a sailor, in dress blues, holding the hand of a young boy. Their eyes intently gaze out upon a masted Man-O-War resting at anchor in the harbor. The sailor’s left sleeve bore the first-class crow of a Gunner’s Mate.
And the single word? Heritage. Indeed.
Pride in heritage brings out the best in men – trust, commitment, readiness. It should be encouraged and not disassembled or erased as if shamed by it.
My initial reaction was disbelief. This decision is just as unnecessary as it is arbitrary. Then again, a deliberate strike on such a valued legacy to so many might be vulgar display of power – and nowhere near finished.
I think it unforgivable that the MCPON participated in this.
CTO2, USN
That was me a lifetime ago. I earned that very small distinction. I’m not aware that such recognition offended anyone nor that it hindered the mission.
Well put, agreed.
OS2, USN
That Man-o-War is Old Ironsides (USS Constitution)… I have the recruiting poster in my den as a reminder of my time in the service and as a Officer Recruiter.