Air Force won’t provide volley salute for funerals
I guess since the Air Force can’t get rid of the A-10, they can’t afford to send seven Air Force members to the graveside of pensioners, according to KHON2.
The U.S. Air Force says it can no longer provide the salute for funeral services.
A family contacted Action Line after they were told they cannot have the full honor guard service for a loved who served in the Air Force for more than 30 years.
[…]
A spokesman for the Air Force says it’s because of the lack of funding and personnel and it’s being done across the country. A memo was sent out to all the funeral homes saying the honor guard will reduce retiree and veteran funeral details from a seven-person detail to a three-person detail.
You know, I can think of a million other things that could be slashed from the budget besides a final salute to service members. But, you know, the generals need their drivers and cooks, their cars and their maids. Congressmen need their six-figure pensions and their huge staffs. Ammo for one of these salutes is about $3 that they’ll never get back. Gotta fund that F-35 somehow.
Thanks to a number of you who sent the links.
Category: Air Force
What a friggin disgrace.
My sentiments exactly. MOST disgraceful.
Absolutely shameful. And yet within the AF we still have all those creature comforts for the higher-ups, and groups like Tops in Blue still jet set around the world providing mandatory entertainment (except for those who are forward-deployed).
Hmm. You know, I wonder what the total spent by the USAF to support “Tops in Blue” is when everything is totaled up (salaries for performers and supporting personnel, equipment/costumes, facilities and utilities, travel – including any costs for flight time/salaries/fuel/maintenance for USAF aircraft that might be used, etc . . . . )? I wonder how that compares to the cost of providing funeral support?
If the two are roughly equivalent, a very simple solution comes to mind.
Check out John Q. Public archives for info about the waste known as Tops in Blue
Hmm – $10M a year min spent to support “Tops In Blue”, per this article:
http://www.jqpublicblog.com/suspicious-minds-generals-herald-tops-blue-airmen-hear-symphony-distraction/
That would fund quite a bit of funeral detail TDY. At an average cost of $100/day, that would be 100,000 staff-days to be precise – though real-world costs doubtless average a different number, and would likely be a bit higher when transportation was included.
I think the Navy’s submariner community might phrase this as “firing solution achieved”.
(Hat tip to Stacy0311 for pointing me to the John Q. Public archive.)
I like it when people bad-mouth the waste of money known as Tops in Blue.
Let me share an example of their puffed up egos. Years ago, at the Pacific Paradise known as Shemya, Tops in Blue showed up to provide mandatory fun. The bus driver grew sick of their sparkle poniness when all of the Tops in Bluers did nothing but whine about having to have their baggage sniffed by the cops’ dog. (Everyone who went to Shemya got their bags sniffed as a matter of policy.) “We’re here to spread a little sunshine and they treat us as criminals” was the main refrain. I told the driver, it was good he was driving for had it been me, I would have turned around and put them back on the air plane and let them spread their sunshine at the proctologist’s office. The poor babies had to spend two days on the island, boo-frikkin-hoo.
…Not to mention all the social actions commissars who still show up and get paid even when the wing is out of money for flying.
Mike
About two years I finally did a rotation in the base Honor Guard. McGuire has a very large AOR when it comes to military honors provided. Getting the seven man detail was one of the biggest and hardest parts of training. You couldn’t be considered a full member of the Base Honor Guard until you completed successfully and then gave the creed. It’s not easy to get down and make it look tight, even if somebody faults if you do it right it still looks and sounds good. Watching the family during the final salute and then presenting the flag…the number crunchers don’t understand and never will.
This seriously pisses me off. It’s not expensive, it’s just another tradition lost. Even in the long run annually it cost little to nothing to provide this. Hell I’ll provide the rounds and rifles if that’s what they are saying is the reason behind this.
Shame.
I think the Army had stopped sending the 10 man party for off post funerals a while ago. (NCOIC, FP commander, 7 shooters, bugler)
I swear one of my relatives had two flag folders and a boom box…
Hey, the Army wont mind helping a fellow brother in arms…..regardless of branch!!!!
Well, let me take exception to that. And I’m an Army vet.
A number of years ago, a vet I knew died. He had retired from another service, and settled permanently near an Army installation. His widow went to that nearby installation to get assistance with a funeral detail.
She was told to contact his original branch of service for assistance, since he wasn’t an Army retiree. She did; that other branch took care of supporting the funeral.
Policy may well have changed since. But I’m still a bit p!ssed at Big Army and that particular installation over that.
I am part of the navy’s funeral honors, mostly in maine , new hampshire, and northern mass.
Anytime a service member was dual service (IE army for 8 navy for 12), members from both guards arrive.
I remember doing funeral detail when I was young soldier at Fort Riley. Back then Riley was a relative backwater compared to what it is now. My unit, and the post as a whole, was chronically underfunded, yet we still managed to provide important services like providing the deceased with the simple thanks of a grateful nation.
Fire the asshole responsible.
Same thing when I was at Ft Carson in the mid-eighties. Called it “Red Week” (although it lasted 2 weeks. Every BN on post rotated through. One week was post guard and flag raising details, second week was funeral details. The funerals obviously were humbling experiences but I wouldn’t have traded that privilege and honor for anything.
My father-in-law (82 ABN during WWII) got two NG Soldiers and some VFW folks to do his honors. They did a good job, but felt he kinda got ripped off…
NBC, I would say a vast majority of funerals are now performed by the states. Each state has details drawn from Guard volunteers, and they do a ton of funerals per year. Without them, most vets would get nothing. I did it in NY for several years, and many were at a VA Hospital in Bath with myself, my detail and the funeral director and facility director the only people in attendance. Vets, especially WW2 and Korea, have been dying off for the past few years at a rapid pace, and it is all that the details can do to keep up. Count yourself lucky that there was someone there to perform the ceremony.
Hopefully that didn’t come out as a gripe towards the young NG troops and the dedicated VFW guys. They did an outstanding job-cold and rainy, but they were professional. I’m just peeved that budget constraints have taken this solemn duty away from the AD folks. I always thought of it as an honor and privilege to be a part of it. Heartfelt kudos to the NG troops and VSOs who have stepped in.
Ever since they made so any veteran’s family could request a funeral it has gotten extremely busy. All you have to do is to let the funeral director know that you want a service – after proof of honorable service they will contact the Guard POC and the post office supplies the flag. The pace will slow down after the WW2/Korea vets are gone, only to pick up when the Vietnam era vets kick in.
Almost forgot the VSOs. The one that worked with my detail was the local Marine Corps League – guys were in their 70s and 80s but went to every funeral no matter the weather with their M-1s. As I remember their 85 year old commander was a Tarawa veteran.
Yep, our troop was on red week at Carson the week of 9-11. I was (ahem) “lucky” enough to be on post guard that day, but we still managed to supply funeral detail that day, and in the following months.
This to me seems like a childish ploy by the top AF brass to try to secure more funding. IE – NO! We’re not doing any funeral details until you give us more toys to play with.
Pathetic and petty.
11b, if you ever wanted to see a chronically underfunded post/division, you should have been on Fort Carson/4th ID in the eighties like nbcguy and I were.
When I retired at the end of 1991 at Carson, the newest stuff we had were the ribbed hand guards for the M16 and the M9 Pistol.
Hell, the last rotation to NTC that we had done in Aug/Sep 91 was yet with M113 APC’s and M60 Tanks.
I was in the 2nd Armored Division from 94-96 just before it deactivated. Our National Guard round out Brigade had newer equipment than us.
Hell I was issued and carried an M3 grease gun
Really cool but it gives you an idea how underfunded we were
We ran smoke generators out of M151s and their tiny little trailers. Rode buses to NTC. BN HQ was a WWII era wooden building. Was in one of the first units to get Kevlar helmets (172 CML) as we were a “direct III Corp asset”. When I moved to 4th AVN, had to get issued a steel pot.
This was 85-89. We already had kevlars during my previous Germany assignment.
The good old days…
You don’t fire CiC, you impeach him.
‘The head rots from thecFish down…’;~)❱
Oh, come on! The O-Club restrooms do have to have new wallpaper, you know.
I haven’t seen an actual O Club on an Armyninstallation in years. There are ‘community clubs’ that are run out of the building that used to be the O Club, but they are nothing like what they were.
What you do see on major installations are modern Soldier centers targeted at the young troops, sort of a cross between a sports bar and a Game Stop with free networked gaming stations.
I’ve been told that here in Uintah County, the military graveside honors are provided by the local Utah National Guard armory, as there is not enough participation by local veterans in the American Legion, which was formed by combining the former VFW posts and DAV chapters, which both folded due to inactivity and lack of interest.
Of course, this area is dependent on oil drilling, and regularly alternates between boom and bust.
At the moment, the local economy is in the “bust” mode, as the lowered price of oil has put a lot of folks out of work.
But, I’m glad to learn that the National Guard is doing the honors.
Years ago, when I participated with the DAV in Salt Lake City, it would be embarrassing to see old guys too feeble to pull back the bolt on an M-1 Garand, or hold the weapon properly, and the squad unable to perform in unison.
But, I did like what our DAV chaplain would say when he presented the flag, asking the family not to hide it away on a closet shelf or in a drawer, but to display it on national holidays, et cetera.
“but to display it on national holidays, et cetera”
How? In what manner? Where?
I feel a further explanation is warranted.
I think he was talking about flying it on a flagpole on the front porch – – – , or some variation of that.
Maybe he just wanted them to have it prominently on display in the living room.
Well, I certainly hope he wasn’t telling them to fly it outside on a flagpole.
Burial/funeral/casket flags are made of cotton and are too easily weathered. The casket flags are of a distinct size and are not intended to be flown after folding and presentation, or even unfolded after the ceremony is performed.
And if he indeed was a DAV Chaplain, he should certainly have been educated on flag etiquette as it pertained to funerals.
Correct. The casket flag is 5 x 9 100% cotton and not intended to be continuously flown. However, flying it once prior to death such as selecting a 5 x 9 flag for a retirement flag is appropriate. That flag would then be used for casket. This is what I did. My burial flag is my retirement flag that was flown over the US Navy Senior Enlisted Academy on the Navy’s Birthday 2011. I retired shortly thereafter.
I wonder if I could use the flag I flew over the USS Arizona memorial at my re-enlistment in Hawaii? It would be nice a touch. I’ll have to pull it out, open it, and measure it.
And as a side note to all this:
The Internment/Casket flag is a 5′ by 9.5′ size.
If the local VSO’s are unable to provide a flag for some reason, family members can go to their local USPS Post Office and get one. Unless the rules have changed in the last 15 years, each post office is required to keep two Internment flags on hand in the event the local VSO is unable to provide a flag for a veteran’s funeral.
I know about the flag requirements. My wife is a retired USPS Postmaster and the situation (VSO shortage of flags)came up a couple of times during her tenure in Wyoming.
It costs nothing. We were volunteers on the color guard at Nellis AFB in the 80s. We had M1 Garands and did the volley at civilian cemetaries all the time. Nobody knew how to play the bugle, so a trumpet player did taps
It actually can cost a lot. You have to pay for the food, travel and accommodations for the funeral team. Some of which might have to travel hundreds of miles.
The regs do not state it has to be seven riflemen, that is just the most commonly used amount.
It is the number of volleys fired that matters. Not the number of rifles in the volley.
AR 600-25 Ch 6-15
b. Veterans. All veterans are entitled to a service detail consisting of at least 2 uniformed military members, at least 1 of whom will be from the parent service of the veteran. The team will fold the American flag and the parent Service representative will present it to the next of kin. Also, every effort will be made to obtain a live bugler to play “Taps.” Otherwise, the team will play “Taps” using an electronic recording.
c. Resources. Subject to a and b above, local commanders determine the availability of their resources as they pertain to Military Funeral Honors support, the composition of the burial honor details, and any restrictions relating to military honors.
The only personnel entitled to the full 9 man detail are those still in the service.
I can speak on this from the Navy Southeast, Particularly Gulf Port MS. Area including Pensacola. I was the Fungal Detail Chief for NCBC Gulf Port Nov-2012-March 2013.
The way it is done there is the Home Port Battalion that just got back takes over detail for all Navy Personnel in that area active or Veteran. The main reason we did for all is because the Veterans Home is there and National Cemetery. The detail was usually members of the battalion in a non-deployable statues. Meaning they were getting out of Navy or were transferring out. So the Battalion did not need to train them for the next deployment. We did do all of them with full 9 man depending if they were all in Gulf Port or not. Sometimes we had some there and might have one 100 miles away so we would make sure to cover local first then if we had enough time and people to cover the other we would. We had the right to turn them down but I never did. We would also cover other services if needed but most of the time they were covered by there services.
I will say this I do believe it is because of all the assets in that region that the funerals are covered in full detail most of the time. They had a Marine from the home one time right after we were doing one. All they had was Two Flag Guy’s Bugle and a presenter. So we covered the rifle to do the right thing.
“Fungal Detail?” Try tough actin’ Tinactin. Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
I know I guess I was thinking funeral and bugle. I’m a Seabee give me a brake.
Meanwhile it’s business as usual in the Ginormous Brothel on the Potomac, B. Hussein 0bama rides around in Air Force One like a kid on a gocart and enjoys one multimillion dollar vacation after another on our dime while Ryan and the RINOS quickly gave the left what they wanted in the budget starting with money to import and relocate at least ten thousand goat-humping fleabags into the USA.
GOD HELP AMERICA.
Hmm. Yeah, some days it indeed seems that “Five-Sided Cathouse on the Potomac” and “Domed DC Den of Iniquity” are certainly apropos.
yeah, how much is costing to deal with Bradley Manning and BO Berhgdal (sp?) instead of the cheap price of 1 round to the back of the head each. A rope is even cheaper.
A lot of money spent on changing uniforms too.
I wonder how much was spent prosecuting officers that can’t seem to keep their zippers up.
What our government and the commands of our military branches are doing to the military as a whole is disgraceful. When we start to forget and do not honor our military heroes, we should be ashamed, but it seems that shame is also a part of our past.
Maybe they could push it JROTC?
The JROTC kids that I have been around have been devoted/dedicated little troopers and I’m sure they would give it 100% but it’s a shame that a vets service branch doesn’t care enough to honor them.
Yep.
Dishonest, limp-dick, panty-twisting, numbnuts, buddy-fucking, limp-waisted, unicorn-farting, collie-molesting CHICKENSHIT.
I suppose the general who signed off on this expects the full sendoff for himself when that time comes, eh? Well fuck him then. They can’t afford nine guys and 21 blank .308/.30-06/5.56 rounds for a dude who gave the USAF 30+ years? Then maybe the drone pilots can sacrifice their latte machine or some shit.
In 1993 the Navy could spare a Senior Chief and seven Seamen with M1s for my Grandpa, who was in the Navy for “the duration plus six months” from January 1942 to December 1945, so I’m calling bullshit.
Nope, TOW. Gotta watch those expenses so they can fund “Tops in Blue” and other essential things.
Well, the new give-away, er, budget set aside $1.6 Billion for refugee and illegal immigrant “resettlement” funding. It’s understandable why they can’t provide for a detail of 7 for a funeral./sarc
The Navy did this a few years ago and my Legion post acted as the honor squad for a retired Navy Vet. Priorities, sigh………….
Yeah, well I heard of the 175 rifle bullets in the USAF armory, Robert Boyd used 173 of them, leaving only 2. So there you have it.
Yeah, but those 173 were “unconfirmed”, so there may actually be a couple of spare rounds somewhere.
At least Boyd didn’t say he waited until his “high value” targets were lined up like a row of ducks just to save the Air Force some ammo.
Until I read this, I hadn’t thought about Funeral duty.
My daughter’s father-in-law lost a lower leg in the Korean war. He died about 15 years ago and was buried in the national cemetery in Denver. If I recall correctly they had a man to play the trumpet, active duty guys on the guns and a real live NCOIC for the detail. Several of his brothers were vets, I met them at the funeral.
My uncle Joe was an MP sergeant at Anzio. He never got over that experience, I understand that was common with Anzio vets. He died about a year ago. The local AL provided the men and the guns (Garands) and they played taps on a boom box. I don’t know if anyone asked the military to do anything for Joe, could be his wife just asked the AL to do it and they did.
I live about 25 miles from a national cemetery, Fort Custer – yes, that Custer. I’m getting kind of old, fat, slow, and even more ugly than before but I might be able to help out over there. I will find out.
The Honor Guards for Fort Custer National Cemetery are provided by the American Legion and VFW post in Battle Creek, Augusta and Climax. Each team does a day a week.
I was stationed at Fort Custer for 7 years. I’m living in Grand Haven now post retirement from the Army
My father passed away last April and was buried at Fort Custer. The Honor Guard was composed of volunteers from the ANG at Battle Creek. He served in the AAF in WW2,42-45, the Army after reenlisting in 1947, I think, and then moving to the Air Force in 1949 and finally retiring in 1966. I kept my shit together until the salute. I miss him more than my wife, who is buried there, too. That mean old man turned out to be a big teddy bear somewhere along the line.
“When I was 16 my father was a fool, by the time I turned 21 I was astonished at how much the old man had learned”. Mr Mark Twain pegged it. I was reflecting a while back how my Dad never had a sense of humor, and seemed prematurely old when I was a teen…and that I am 10 years older now than he was then. It’s amazing how much we learn about our parents when we get older, and discover what jewels they are/were once we open our eyes. I agree – missing him hurts every damn day, and it’s been 13 years.
Perhaps the Air Farce will have enough money to give the F35 a proper funeral send off. I gave it the one finger salute years ago.
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I think that the NG does a lot of funerals now. If I remember correctly a year or two ago several of them were in trouble for assign around during their training and taking pictures of it.
“Assing” not assign.
As a prior AF member, as well as having served on Honor Guard for a year, I’m very disappointed to hear this. I know this made a huge impact in the lives of the family members of service members who were rendered honors. *shakes head*
This is probably not an Air Force policy, but rather the local commander’s policy.
Law and DoD policy is flag and folding detail as well as a bugler (or ‘high quality’ DVD). One member of the detail must be from the deceased service, and is typically at or above the rank of the deceased. This member presents the flag to the next of kin. Units have traditionally provided a firing detail for veterans in their area.
Local units are also tasked to provide a casualty assistance officer and a notification officer if the deceased is active duty. Casualty assistance can be a long term committment in some cases.
I have been responsible for my unit providing all of the above when we were on ‘white cycle’, and I have been the presiding officer a few time in an era when we were burying WWII and Korean veterans two and three times a day, and again during the recent wars when we were burying Iraq veterans. I will tell you that this fairly simple speech:
”On behalf of the President of the United States, United States Army and a grateful Nation, please accept this flag as a symbol of our appreciation for your loved one’s honorable and faithful service.”
…is incredibly easy to memorize but almost impossible to say without a crack in your voice when you are handing a flag to a widow who is looking at you, but seeing her husband as he looked fifty years ago when she last saw him wearing the same uniform getting off a troop train. Just as difficult is the mother who is holding you personally responsible for her child’s death, even though you never met him.
This is why the notification officer, assistance officer, and detail OIC are always different people.
The decision not to in this case was probably partly money and partly Operational requirements, and I’m sure it was a tough one. No one likes doing this, but commanders recognize that it is part of our heritage teaches young troops about discipline, respect, and selfless service.
Like I said, there’s plenty of money for the AF’s show follies like the Singing Sergeants as well as Senior Officers’ perks and follies, but cutting back on when Vets are laid to rest? That’s unforgivable in my book, I remember when My Grandfather, a WWII Vet, was laid to rest during the late 70’s and things were cut back to the point where Taps was played from a cheap cassette player in the back of the caretaker’s pickup truck and that was in a National Cemetery!
I shared a room at Ft. Benning CRC with an Army SFC. Dude was solid. He told me that when his kids are old enough, he is going to encourage them to go USAF. He said (paraphrased), “You know, I am busting my ass hauling gear and weapons up and down terrain and through the mud… and them some AF guys drive past me in a fucking gator.”
From my own non-military experience, I only have 2 words: Al Udeid.
Swimming pools, movie stars. Order a custom pizza any way you want it at the DFAC.
I guess it is a matter of priorities.
This is where the VFW and The American Legion need to stand up and take over.
The dirtbag that came up with this should be immediately reduced in rank and removed from whatever Command he/she is serving in or Post with any type of authority at all and spend the rest of their Time In Service behind a desk. This is as poor a decision as I’ve seen since Obama in a childish tantrum tried to put up a fence around The WW2 Memorial.
“This is probably not an Air Force policy, but rather the local commander’s policy.”
If so then that local commander needs to be hammered into the ground.
Typical Air Force: fuck people, we have technology.
The USAF has prayed at the Altar of Technology since it was formed. If it’s not “Higher, Faster, Farther” in some way – or otherwise high-tech – the USAF as an institution IMO doesn’t seem to really value it.
I remember what my mother-in-law went through when her father died as she tried to get a detail for his funeral. At the time, I was still in the Corps, so I paid a visit to my unit and one of the Staff NCOs had a group of volunteers on standby within five minutes. Thankfully, the Army pulled through for the man.
The Army has been doing this for years. Since the late 90’s.
Basically if you were not a General Officer or Died on Active duty, all you got was a two man detail, er’ sorry “Funeral Honors Mission”
At least we got a fake ass bugle (with the insert that played taps) instead of the CD player.
We had that POS – fell out of the bugle once at a funeral when it was so cold the coating used to hold it in place stopped sticking. Still, it was better than some I attended where they used a tape recorder or car stereo…