US Troops told to look away from Afghan allies’ sexual assault
The New York Times reports that “the Army” is instructing our soldiers in Afghanistan to ignore the sexual abuse that seems to be part of the culture in Afghanistan. It seems to me that the order to ignore the raping of young children would come from someone higher than “the Army” and if this was the last Republican administration, this would be pinned to Darth Cheney.
Rampant sexual abuse of children has long been a problem in Afghanistan, particularly among armed commanders who dominate much of the rural landscape and can bully the population. The practice is called bacha bazi, literally “boy play,” and American soldiers and Marines have been instructed not to intervene — in some cases, not even when their Afghan allies have abused boys on military bases, according to interviews and court records.
[…]
When asked about American military policy, the spokesman for the American command in Afghanistan, Col. Brian Tribus, wrote in an email: “Generally, allegations of child sexual abuse by Afghan military or police personnel would be a matter of domestic Afghan criminal law.” He added that “there would be no express requirement that U.S. military personnel in Afghanistan report it.” An exception, he said, is when rape is being used as a weapon of war.
The article goes into the punishment of Army officers and NCOs for interceding in the filthy practice, and the death of one Marine whose father blames the policy for his son’s death. It’s a pretty long article, so I’m going to leave it where it is, but you should read it. But, I’m wondering what exactly we’re supposed to be saving those people from anyway.
Category: Terror War
Don’t ask don’t tell V3.5.
Consistent with the ongoing effort to turn our own military into something as worthless and degenerate as your standard issue UN Peacekeeping Force.
If we close our eyes to children and women being raped, then we’re no better than the rapist. Would a person in our Military stop a rape from happening in America? HELL YES!
The only way those idiots will understand that we will not allow this to happen in THEIR country is to stop, arrest and have them prosecuted. I am appalled that we were told to stand down and mind our own business. I’m not Military personnel, but, if I was, there’s no way in hell I would look the other way. I would hold the victim and drag the rapist to my higher up. If I was to be ordered to release both, the child would be hidden somewhere, some how, whatever it takes. The rapist would eventually be found either bled out or chocked to death on his castrated family jewels. Court martial me, give me a trial and if I’m found guilty, after I serve my time, I will relocate to Europe and they don’t stand for this crap.
In America we have every race and each has certain beliefs’. One religion says if a women were to meet a man without a father or brother, the males have a right to kill the women. Then there’s the castration of preteen girls. If you expect to live in America, follow our laws and if you can’t GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY COUNTRY AND GO HOME. There isn’t a single thing that would make me change my belief in our American laws.
Just close your eyes and it will all go away guys. What a sad day for the U.S. Army.
Well with this news I would once again ask, what in the fuckety fuck are we doing there? Is this a way of life we really need to protect?
That entire instruction set of ignoring the rape of children to protect our aliies’ culture goes against the grain of everything we are taught as Americans. We are not the kind of people who protect predators, we are supposed to be the kind of people who destroy the predators.
In our desire to fight the taliban we’ve decided we will join forces with a murderous groups of pedophiles in a shithole nation to get the job done….there is no honor in promoting leaders who rape children, there is no honor in averting one’s eyes from a victim and allowing his tormentor to go unpunished, there is no honor in being associated with a nation that agrees to such things. This abomination is occurring in our name against children in a foreign land. The most disgusting aspect of this reality is that the men who have the courage to point out how wrong this situation is are being summarily relieved of command and being forced out of the military.
We are accessories in the rape of children with these ROEs…there is no better time to pack everything up and get out of there before our souls are forever stained with the blood of these innocents.
Veritas Omnia Vincit, thank you sir. I will let your comments stand and simple add my vote.
Agreed.
I can even understand how we’ve gotten to this point, as people at the Pentagon or White House focus on ‘winning’, regardless of the cost,… but at some point you need to stand back and ask, “What the fuck are we doing?”
If the President has any intestinal fortitude whatsoever, he’ll change this immediately, since he can no longer stand behind the “I didn’t know..” excuse when it’s in the NYT. I won’t hold my breath though.
LC: intestinal fortitude?
From bodaprez?
Change it immediately? Hahahaha!!!
Do you REALLY think he invited that muslim kid from Texas just to look at his clock? 😉
Five bucks says he visits on a Thursday.
I think he invited that kid because the way the kid was treated was pretty ridiculous, and indicative of some underlying problems. We want to encourage kids who are going to be creative, and pursue scientific and technical goals.
There’s no ulterior motive beyond that, or if you find there is, you’ll also have to ask why Facebook, Google, MIT and the freakin’ former commander of the International Space Station also invited him to things. 😉
Please allow me to pile on…I could have said any better.
I see. Well, it’s like this. The Russians consider homosexuality to be abnormal and, despite some superficial gains made by the LGBTs, gayness/gayhood remains unacceptable there. In the US, homosexuality was regarded similarly, what with sodomy laws and all. In almost no time at all, homosexuality became normal and the fundamental right for gays to marry has been recently discovered in the Constitution, written in there by our Founding Fathers in lemon-juice ink, no doubt. So, whose national perversions are acceptable and whose are not? The practices described in the article are abominations that are unlawful in Afghanistan, both under religious law and civil code. Maybe the courts there will find that it is a fundamental cultural right for men to rape boys. And, by the way, before anyone points out that sex between consenting adults is different, do consider that, thanks to the Supreme Court, a 45-year-old man may now marry a 16-year-old boy right here in the USA.
Yeah, I know what many here will say in response. That’s cool. By the way, where are Mommy and Daddy during the boys’ absences? Could you imagine having your son taken by one of these stinking pigs and do nothing? Or would you, as I would guess, die before you let that happen?
Perhaps I’m not understanding, are you suggesting that chaining a child to a bed post and raping him daily might be acceptable because the US allows two men to marry each other?
Or because some states allow the age of consent to be 16 that child molestation isn’t a crime?
Not sure I’m following your line of reasoning today.
My line of thinking is found in this line: “So, whose national perversions are acceptable and whose are not?” In other words, where a nation or a culture draws its tolerance lines is dependent upon the nation, culture and era. Right now what was once regarded as unlawful and, indeed, an abomination in our society has the blessing of our highest court. In any event, it’s a matter of degree and chaining a boy to a bed, if accurate, (as reported but not confirmed by an independent source) may or may not have been a singular act. The cultural practice of the ‘dancing boys’ or having ‘a toothache problem’ is what I am referring to, not rape.
CAUTION: The link below is to the North American Man Boy Love Association. Today, for the first time, I visited it and read through some articles. Gee, it all sounds so innocuous–so normal. The organization opposes any age restrictions on sex between males. One day, there may be none. We are all ready on that road. Since many state laws allow marriage quite young and marriage now in the USA is permitted between members of the same sex, a boy barely out of puberty can marry a man 30, 40, 50 years older. This makes NAMBLA happy.
http://www.nambla.org/
2/17AirCav, you have officially destroyed my lunch hour.
Thank you so much.
I’m going to go gag now.
Wait a second. 2/17 Air Cab, are you saying that relationship between a 45 year old man and a 16 year old girl is acceptable, whereas one between similarly aged partners that are both male is not?
My impression of NAMBLA is that they are more interested in relationships between 45 years olds and 6 year olds.
Shoot on sight.
What makes it worse is the fact that the ACLU defended NAMBLA at one point because “they have rights”.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20000831/aponline171914_000.htm
They also defend the Nazis and Rush Limbaugh…bastards.
2/17,
I just tapped into the website. I’ll be joining EX-PH2, she’s gagging, I’m puking. A bunch of failed abortions and I am against abortion.
I like what the British are said to have done in India: You have a custom of burning a widow on her husband’s pyre. We have a custom of hanging men who burn women. You practice your custom and we’ll practice ours.
Although, I’d prefer someone “accidentally discharge” a weapon into the offenders medulla oblongata at the sight of such a thing.
And I hope this is baloney.
Sadly, it’s not. Check out the documentary “This Is What Winning Looks Like.” VERY disturbing.
Thanks for posting this. Very good documentary and read. I’m surprised MAJ S. was as open and frank as he was with this reporter and that his comments made it out of the country intact. Many of these issues are what I dealt with on the East side. I dealt with district officials that needed to be fired as dirty as they were, but no matter what we said, nothing was done to remove them. I had one “bright spot” governor who was doing a great job. He was transferred to another district out of my AoR. A much less dangerous and “easier” district because he was standing up to the corruption and calling out people who were the bad guys. So his “punishment” was to get sent to a less stressful district. He got to go home to his family every night, didn’t have to sleep in his office with a pistol in his hand, etc. The guy they replaced him with was blatant taliban. After he left, that district starting going into the shitter. I even put in my reports for months “this one good Gov is keeping this district running” and after it went downhill, they bitched that my rating was going down. All I could do is reply with “I told you what would happen if he was transferred…” I had good maneuver commanders to work with, with the exception of one O-5 who acted like John Wayne all the time and never wanted to comprehend what I had to say. He was supportive still, but was just there to make O-6. Funny thing, reminding me of the ambassador showing up in Sangin. This O-5 would park outside the walls of the district center (150m from the gates), take all his gear off, wear his PC to walk through the city into the DC to show “see? its perfectly safe here, I can walk around without body armor on!” (Granted he had two platoons of security covering his dumbass.) I’m sure I could write a book on the stuff I saw in Iraq and Afghanistan, but… Read more »
I don’t know how you did it, working with those people.
Maybe it’s just me, but I felt my IQ dropping rapidly as I watched that documentary.Talk about a Godforsaken place.
One of the big meetings my team worked once a month was a big deal and we had leadership from each district show up. We also had provincial leaders come to the meetings too.
I had a CSM tell me while we were waiting for people to show up to it, “I don’t know how you can do these meetings and all the work to set them up.” I told him “We do it so you don’t have to CSM. That’s our job, to get everyone to the table.”
I had friends who went to Haiti back in the early 90s when they were meeting people who still believed in voodoo, thought chemsticks were magic, anything electronic was magic, etc.
Trust me though, I had quite a few days over there that I felt like I became dumber after the day’s events. Unfortunately, some of those days were because I was dealing with DoS, policy discussions, etc. I was in more than one VTC where the Bde Cdr was bitching at his Bn Cdrs about their reports that weren’t really their reports. He was confused as much as we were about who was submitting what reports and what they were saying in them. I felt like a potato after that 2 hour adventure.
I’m with MSG , I had to deal with same issues when I was attached to Army unit in Iraq and almost the same shit it sound like my deployment. On my Seabee deployment there we dealt with same stuff but at lower level while CA guy’s tried to work thing’s out. Was in Haiti also that place sucked.
I had some run ins with navy seabees in Afghanistan working some engineering stuff in our AO for us. I was lucky to have some availability of you guys for a couple projects I needed to scrounge up. Definitely a plus having someone who could decipher engineer speak to me about things. I worked with a solid SeaBee LCDR in Korea back in the 90s too.
My unit got tagged for Haiti, but by the time they were going to cycle us through, we were done there. I did hear about much suckage though.
I was in Iraq with the Army 2010-2011 same shit was happening as we trund over the bases they just went to shit. It sucked we had watch the shit happen and projects went to crap. I worked so hard to get Iraqi contractors to projects wright and they did and Iraqi solders shit on it all.
I was in Iraq in 05-06, so well before we started giving them our FOBs. But from what I was told of guys who went back in 08, yeah we’d give them a base and in 30 days everything would be broken and there would be shit piles inside and out, everywhere.
In Afghanistan, there was a COP near us that we left and handed off to the ANA. The porta-john company stopped going out there because they were afraid with no Coalition in the area. So, when the shitters got full, they just started dropping deuces anywhere there wasn’t a pile. Our guys went back there one time and couldn’t even walk around. We never went back there after that.
Ya, we went out to one VSP, it was so bad they had their own four hole for them self’s and the ODA had their own and would well they keep them out. We went out to survey so they could have trailer’s brought in. We worked for SOTF-A doing all engineering shit.They are doing a lot of work with CA in Africa and I did some in south central America
I remember seeing Seabees come and assist with new construction in camp. One squad of Seabees would do more work in three hours than a platoon of hadjis would do in three or four weeks! I remember one story about an ETT tasked to an Afghan unit that expected him to do their shit-burning for them, he doused their burn latrine with diesel fuel and torched it, then gracefully told them “FUCK YOU, you rebuild it and burn your own shit!”
Iraq, 03-04 I MEF and 2010-2011 USACE, working with MiTT’s and State. closing contracts out and turning shit over sucked. Oh ya had to close gap with CERP funds thank you!!! how ever it was spelled you know what I mean.
You’re a better Man than I am, NECCSEABEECPO, I don’t know if I could hold on to my sanity through that amount of bullshit!
Sigh.
General Sir Charles James Napier, GCB.
“Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs.”
Bastard sucked all the joy out of sati, the practice of burning widows alive. Interesting fellow, check out the Battle of Miani where he kicked muzzy ass big time.
AS I recall, we once helped the Afghan evict the Taliban from their chokehold on that pisshole country. When we left, they walked right back in. That was something that was on C-Span constantly. I think it was during the Gulf War. I still lived in a 3-flat, on the 2nd floor, and had just caved in to buying a color TV.
So tell me again, why the hell we ever went back there? They don’t want foreigners there, but they let in the Dark Lord to get the Russians out, and then wanted the US to get the Dark Lord out. So we did, and we left and the Dark Lord marched right back in, so they whined and we went back.
And now, our people are supposed to look the other way when heinous crimes are committed against children and women?
When is this government going to learn to tell those thugs to clean up their own country?
One of the biggest issues going on there on the US side of the war, that kept us from finishing this up and having the country be overly successful was “measures of performance / effectiveness”. Too many commanders couldn’t measure “effective” by saying to their boss “I’ve gotten 4 villages in my area pro-US and they are happy with our presence” because it doesn’t fit well into a maneuver commander’s OER. But then, maneuver commanders are there to destroy the enemy, not nation build. So, it turned into a battle of budgets. “My predecessor spent 8 million dollars here, but I’ve spent 10 million on projects, reconstruction, and infrastructure improvements.” I am being more “effective” than my predecessor. With that, I am improving my piece of dirt here! It didn’t matter where the money was being spent. Commanders were being tossed bags of money and told “here, find some projects and spend this so we can give you another bag of money to spend next month.” I saw projects my predecessor spent money on. (my favorite example, a computer lab for a center that had no electricity. Yes, really. because 6 months later I put the power into that building.) We didn’t need to spend a tenth of the amount we spent in Afghanistan to get it back to better than before the Taliban took over. On the Afghan side, they had commanders asking THEM to provide ideas for improvement of their area. In order to get influence, improve their own life, they gladly offered ideas to make their village better. The problem was, at the start a little bit of extra for their family turned into many getting million dollar houses in J-bad, Kabul, etc., along with extras for their home villages. I had to regularly tell Govt officials I dealt with that I wouldn’t spend a dime on them unless I could see benefit to other than just their village. I wanted surrounding villages to get improvements too. They were already “B-type” or in Arabic terms “Inshya Allah” (If God wills it) about everything. With us coming in… Read more »
And yet these are people who brag that they ‘kicked the Macedonian’s ass’.
Sure they did. He was on his way to India. The only thing they ever kicked was the shit his cavalry and Bucephalus left behind.
Your funny as shit. I bet we could sit down and have some beers and talk all night I fill your pain. Figured you were CA from your other comments and why I could relate to what you were saying. You guy’s do all the DoS shit and Military Political crap and we do the heavy lifting. I love working with you guy’s and hate working for ODA guy’s on there camps. But working for them is better than SEAL’s I didn’t say that.
My motto is “I do what I can.” I’m sure we could. After 22 years I’ve seen my fair share of crazy shit.
Though I miss working with ODAs, much easier to get SF guys to understand what my CAT has to do without an hour long briefing I’d have to do for a maneuver commander.
Ya, ODA understand the AOR a lot better because that’s what they do. I know it’s hard to believe but Seabees depending what AOR and the task force attached to can see some shit and after 24 I saw a lot of shit. Wrong place wright time or wright place wrong time what ever way you look at it.
I’ve heard that ISIS has infested A-stan and is fighting against the Taliban. Let’s hope they wipe each other off the face of the Earth!
Troops were told to turn a blind eye to all the popies fields now we have Heroin cheaper than ever and OD’s going thur the roof.
Count me as one NCO that would be at Court Martial for disobeying that order.
Ditto.
I’m in.
Ditto.
And the way things are going in the US these days, I bet if we brought Afghans here and they started raping boys, all they’d have to say in court is “I was doing it in my country, you can’t discriminate against my culture!” and get the case dismissed.
Far too much of the culture in the middle east is unchanging for thousands of years and they prefer it that way because it benefits what “leaders” there want the culture to be.
That counters the required diversity training.
Even on American bases?
Yeah, bullshit to that!
I doubt Obummer and his administration are to concerned.
To busy promoting LBGT rights and letting folks out of prison early here at home.
Here I thought American bases were American soil and governed by American laws.
This is why we will not “Win”… we refuse to fight the War on all fronts, and do anything at all to foster a change in a culture that has its roots in the dark ages. When even our own allies act like animals, it is hard to effect a positive change.
Never mind the double standards our troops are being forced to abide by, where sexual assault or even the implication of inappropriate sexual conduct can lead to the demise of a military career.
Tom Kratman seems to have a pretty clear strategy (fictional of course) but our political lacks the spines and testicles necessary to implement it….
What? Revive the SS? Not my cup of tea.
I think reviving the SS is just for keeping millions of man-eating aliens from overrunning your country.
I think Stacy0311 is referring to the “A Desert Called Peace” series.
Oh, all right. Haven’t read that one.
Finally, after 14 years in that shithole country this is making the news. I was there in ’10-11 and saw proof of the debauchery constantly. I asked an O-6 about it and was told point blank “there’s nothing we can do about it.”
Hell, we’re pretty sure our local ANA had their own Bacchi Boys right on the FOB, and nothing was done about it. I’m just glad this is getting some press. These people have no place in a decent society.
I tend to see it as proof that some people CANNOT be civilized.
There people have no place in ANY society.
Fixed it for you, E-6.
Because that kind of change for them would be “difficult” and its easier to just let it continue.
Before we can clean up their country, or any other nation’s society, we need to first, clean up our own, right here at home.
And, frankly, that will require a massive civil war among our own citizens.
C’mon, John. Let’s fight our battles through the ballot box. I seriously doubt that we need a “massive civil war” to straighten things out.
Okay, that sounds good to me. Where do I vote for the next Supreme court justice? How do I protect against a president who says that he has a pen and phone and that’s enough to effect his will, or force him to enforce the nation’s laws? How do I remove the bureaucrats at the State Department and the EPA, among other places? How do I keep the IRS from targeting the enemies of the current regime? Am I to rely upon Congress? Is that it? John Bonenead? Pelosi? McConnell? Reid? Is our hope to be found in a whack job like Trump or an avowed socialist named Sanders? Is it to be found in that moron Biden or that other liar Wide Load Clinton? I need to get over to WalMart and get some smiley faces.
Nobody said it was going to be easy, but that’s still a far cry better than talking about civil war and treating fellow Americans as the enemy.
Marine_7002 is spot on.
The problem is, far too many people in the US are staunch about voting their party versus voting for the right person.
Just look at Hillary, she’s been shown as a blatant liar, has committed how many dozens of violations of federal law and the FBI is still just “investigating” and will for a while I’m sure. She’s laughing and making jokes about it. But there is still an excessive amount of people looking to vote for her.
Even for Congress, incumbents have a 95%-ish re-election rate. Why? Because far too many people think their representative / Senator are the good one and all the others are dirtbags.
Yep, and I think Sam Clemens (Mark Twain) was absolutely right when he said “Politicians, like diapers, need to be changed often and for the same reason,”!
JRM – I’m afraid that you may be right…
John is right. We need to clean house here, first and foremost. There is too much slacker behavior, and that’s the politest word I have for it.
Then why in the blue hell are military members going to 4 classes every year for sexual assault prevention training?? When our leadership is turning a blind eye to an apparent atrocity that has been covered up for years! What a bunch of hypocrites…FUBAR to the highest degree!
You’re preachin’ to the choir, BennSue.
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. – Amended Rule #1 in Animal Farm
These kinds of orders DO NOT COME FROM THE PRESIDENT.
They come from theater commands.
I have seen this kind of guidance before. And it was always the decision of a battlespace owner.
“These kinds of orders DO NOT COME FROM THE PRESIDENT.”
Huh? Who said they do? But now that you brought up the matter, how is it that the Commander-in-Chief ceases to be when his name is oBaMa and some shit has hit the military fan? He didn’t kill OBL either but he took credit for that. And, by the way, what time today do you expect the White House to announce that oBaMa has ordered the Pentagon to change this standing policy? Silence is acquiescence. as soon as the shit hits the fan
Just like when King Barry “brought the troops home!” from Iraq, until shit went down hill there. Then “now if you remember, I was just following the plan of the previous administration.” Ahh, so on the campaign trail “I brought the troops home!” but when shit goes bad “Its Bush’s fault!”
Who said they do?
John did; “It seems to me that the order to ignore the raping of young children would come from someone higher than “the Army” and if this was the last Republican administration, this would be pinned to Darth Cheney.”
The implication is that this came from DoD or the President. Since that is all that is left in the CoC above the “Army”.
But since he explicitly says that if it had been the previous administration then this would have been a huge political issue.
John thus extended the implication to the idea that it came from this administration.
And it did not. This has been the way we have operated in Afghanistan since at least 2003.
The reason it is now a political football is because of the recent story of the SF officer getting forced out for interfering in something like this and because it is an election season and we are largely disengaging and redefining our role in Afghanistan.
Given our current role do we need to keep ignoring this issue?
I hated that we ever felt the need to ignore it but it is a tough fight and almost everything we did to interfere with social issues like this greatly complicated our efforts and felt relatively ineffective.
We’d take you more seriously if you’d bother to get the easy stuff right.
For starters, it’s “Jonn” – NOT “John”. I believe you’ve been repeatedly advised of that fact.
Are you simply too dull to remember how to spell someone’s name? If so, here’s a hint fer ya, “Sunshine”: just look at the article’s byline.
Just so you Know there was never a order thing’s were being reported up and believe me when some of the Team guy’s found that shit going down let’s just say they took care at their level.What sux is when you have to take the back seat (Training) if you watch the above vedio that is spot on. AOR commanders have hand’s tied because guess what every country has Dept. of State even in combat. last time I checked Civil n’s run State and keep secret’s. Food for thought maybe HC didn’t want paper trail or Data trail for that reason think about it.
So what you’re saying is that theater commanders don’t answer to anyone else?
Lars… Please don’t be Stupid! ! ! !
all field commanders get their orders from the pentagon witch in turn gets guidance from up top to include POTUS….
YOU ARE RIGHT the Baby Raping has gone on in Iraq and in Afghanistan since we were boots on ground. the Order to UCMJ… Started the last 2 years for anybody that made a stand against it with Host country Nationals…
I am not stupid. And no all orders do not come from the pentagon. In fact, only a tiny percentage of orders come from the pentagon. The vast majority of decision made are made by low level leaders and battlespace commanders.
Beyond the campaign plans; generally local commanders are following “Guidance” and “intent” from upper echelons and decisions are intended to be nested with that guidance or intent.
This posture toward the way we handle these kinds of incidents has been in place for a very long time. Since almost the first year of the war.
“Let local security forces, governance, and rule of law handle this. If they lack the capacity; advise, train, and assist them in developing the capacity.”
The guidance has evolved as Afghan law enforcement and judicial capacity has evolved. As Afghan law enforcement capacity has increased there has been a much greater expectation that we let the Afghans handle issues like this and much less tolerance for commanders or soldiers who act like vigilantes on the ground.
We do not “own” this country. We do not run the Afghan government. We do not run their judicial system. We do not “enforce” the law. It is not our place to deal with these issues. It is distasteful as hell but to deal with this issue and issues like this would require a complete change in our mission in Afghanistan. And we would be there for decades more.
Hey o unicorn fart-huffing little glittery gargoyle gonad-ogling Smurf-lusting little Sparkle Pony, a LOT of TAH Regulars are Vets, myself included, that HAVE served in the Middle East. That said, I still find you to be a half-decent chew toy!
I served in both Iraq and Afghanistan as well (Afghanistan is not in the Middle East btw).
I was the governance officer for a regional command and drafted the governance campaign plan for that regional command. So I also have a great deal of knowledge about how governance and rule of law guidance was given and the sources of that guidance. I payed attention to the decisions of every battle-space owner in the regional command concerning issues of governance and how their decisions nested with or did not nest with guidance from the division, and the embassy platform.
Rule of law was part of the “security” line of effort and the key decision makers on that line of effort were overwhelmingly military.
This guidance came from the military leadership and not the President. Though it was nested with the embassy platform (civilian leadership) intent to push Afghans to manage governance and rule of law issues themselves and assist them in developing the capacity to do so. So it was nested with what could be regarded as the “President’s intent.” Both Presidents. Bush and Obama.
Even IF you did serve over there, you sound like some candyassed little FOBBIT that would want a BSM for exposing yourself to the outside air in camp on your way to and from the coffee shop as well as your air conditioned office. I’ve done my time in the ME as an Infantryman.
I am not sure why you seem so compulsively interested in discrediting my service. But you are essentially correct. About my role in Afghanistan.
I was as hobbit as they come in Afghanistan. 14-24 hour days, 7 days a week, in a division headquarters. A desk, a computer, air condition, Belgium chow hall, and an impossible task.
Yes, there was a coffee shop.
I served on the ground in Iraq. Lived on a combat outpost for the tour. No chow hall, no coffee shop, no PX, not even a trailer. One improvised shower.
I served in a job that has one of the highest casualty rates in theater. I did get a BSM for Iraq, not for valor, but for apprehending two insurgents, including an IED triggerman, for locating other insurgents, and for recovering key information related to the murder of British police officers.
That’s interesting Lars. I recall having to respond to “strategic” guys in Bagram all the time telling me I was wrong about the situation on the ground. The first few times I was offended, but shortly after I didn’t even bother responding to them about it.
I think there were far too many “desk officers/NCOs” in Afghanistan who got into the business of telling guys on the ground how things were. More than a few times I had to correct their “information” with silly things like, “yeah that guy’s been dead for a month, you should read my last three meeting reports about the incident that happened.”
You sound like some of the S2 squirrels that would put out things like “beware, they are said to have turned a white Toyota Corrola into another VBIED”, hell, over half of the cars in A-stan are white Corrolas!
I just shit myself on that one. BZ
At least once a week in Baghdad 05 we’d get a BOLO for a mission:
“Watch out for a white and florescent orange taxi being used as a Suicide VBIED.”
That’s like saying a yellow taxi in manhattan is a VBIED.
Good times.
Commissar. after reading my post…. I feel the Need to Apologize to you for
Calling you Stupid… all in all, we all have our own opinions. but name calling was a no-go
on my part.. on the bottom of this page sums up how I feel. I hold no animosity towards Left-wing Nuts.. or the Right-wing Fruit Loops ether. I believe in freedom of America. the
responsible ownership of firearms. to be left alone by crazy over barring laws, I believe we should take care of our VETs, instead of Corrupted Unions, Faux Urban leaders, Maga Banks, and some trust fund baby’s environmental group, and giving some high school dropout a pay raise to 15 bucks hour for flipping burgers,
Well, since he finds out about everything from reading the papers, now that he knows about it, he is responsible and can stop it, can’t he?
I don’t think we should stop it. We would need to expand our mission into an occupation force to do so. We would need to take control over the government and the justice system and well as the security forces.
And we would still fail to stop it.
Maybe so, but we shouldn’t be punishing dudes for correcting their shitty behavior. That’s the point. Guys careers are being railroaded for political reasons.
During WWII, Jewish women and girls were called whores, but good enough to rape before gassing them. I have read books written by many people who survived the horror. Although American Military personnel didn’t participate, there are plenty of men who tracked nazi rapist, etc, and took the in the woods and blew their heads off. All this happened after European countries were liberated. They only trialed nazi higher ups in the Nuremberg trials for crimes against humanity. Collaborates with nazis were either given a trial by local justice system or given a double tap by citizens who witnessed the traitor. So, in for the 55 million Hitler murdered and the hundred thousand military personnel who were killed fighting the war, 400+ nazis went to Nuremberg or the country they killed in to be trialed.
If we turn a blind eye to what’s happening in the middle east it’s going to be like WW2. Nobody believed there were concentration camps until those that escaped started talking. Although I haven’t seen the movie Band of Brothers, I did hear a Russian Commander who liberated the first camp, put a bullet in his own head from the sight of walking skeletons and bodies piled high.
If were fighting in the middle east to liberate the country from the terrorists it has to be by American Military Laws. I don’t think that the laws or rules says “except the boys and girls they need to rape so they can fight side by side with our troops.
I don’t remember what military person started the rule, but if you have children or grandchildren, your a lousy father, grandfather and a piece of ? that should be tossed out of the military. I read all posts and anyone of you would be better running the Military.
Not that I don’t wish we could and wish we did stop it. I wish we could give full Afghan citizenship and rights to Kuchis, I wish we could give women more control over their lives and power structures in the country. I wish we could “fix” Afghanistan.
But given how much needs to get done and the likelihood of accomplishing this task it is not something we should divert the massive resources necessary to pursue.
This issue can only change through a huge shift in social norms in Afghan society. We cannot force them to change their norms without near complete control over their social structures.
Something we like the resources to do.
Something we *lack* the resources to do.
I think the real issue is that nobody wants that dried-up sandpit, including the lower-level inhabitants. I certainly don’t want it. And while several of you think that nuking the place is a great idea, it does nothing but contaminate the soil. In an area which is mostly flatland, even a big nuke wouldn’t be very effective. Nukes are most effective if the detonation is surrounded by hills, because the heat is contained and the shockwave washes back on the target zone.
A more effective method is to fuel up the Stratofortresses, if there are still any available, load ’em up with bunker busters, and drop those hot potatoes all over the place like corn kernels pouring out of a grain bin. Carpet bombing in several runs with conventional bombs would, in this case, be far more effective than nukes, especially since the Soviets had the biggest nuke ever and we didn’t.
If the conventional bombs aren’t enough, then effing incendiaries.
Oh, I know that sounds awfully bloodthirsty on my part, but I am frankly fed up to my eyebrows with the crap coming out of Washington and the tsunamis of people who don’t want to return to the land where they were born. What does it say about them? If they don’t want it, who does?
If you want to get rid of ISIS-Taliban-AQs, then bomb the living shit out of them and keeping bombing until none of them are left to even whisper about it. They want to meet their Maker. This will help them along that route.
That’s all I have to say.
Well said. I think you should run the Military. Why? I take it you’ve been there, done that and you make complete sense on how to solve the problem as a mother would. Hell I hope your a women ?
I was, but I’m only one woman among many millions.
I watched part of that video. It was painful to realize that the Marines who are US advisors in Afghanistan were and still are beating their heads on a dried mud wall. The fact that the local ‘troops’ are stoned half the time on dope of any kind speaks volumes about what they are really like. When that is how they live their lives, they can have that pisshole.
We need to get our people out of there now. I have more sympathy for the birds that show up at my feeding station in the winter. They may be messy and spill some of the grain, but they go after what they spill.
And my point in that sentence, in case no one gets it, is that a bunch of sparrows are more responsible citizens than those Afghans.
Yup! Run the military! I’d join and follow you into blowing the past back to the stone age..
I saw this ALOT when I was over there in 04-05 as an ETT in an ANA INF BN. Never saw little kids get abused, but it was common knowledge to all of us that the ANA commanders had their “Beautiful Boys” they hand picked out of the ranks. Fuck these motherfuckers and lets just make the whole fucking place a “Free Fire Zone” effective now until TBD!
“Free Fire Zone”
Waste of bullets. Besides, Dept of Fatherland Security has bought all the bullets, remember?
Just easier to evacuate and nuke the site from orbit. Only way to be sure…
I want to add that this isn’t specific to Afghanistan either. We did a 3-week joint training mission in Saudi Arabia in 2009 and heard evidence of this there as well. They had male cooks from the Phillipines in the chow hall, and one of our guys was Filipino, and could speak with them. They told him they were constantly “hit on” and asked for sex, but if they complained, they were either beaten by the soldiers, or fired out-right.
Just gets worse before someone stands up to the bullshit.
Change ‘bullshit’ to ‘bullies’, or just add it.
The things a group of military friends share makes sleep hard, the brain doesn’t shut down. I can’t imagine what mental condition I would in if I saw the horror in my own eyes..
it funny how the truth always comes out. people over here thought I was crazy when I spoke about this kind of stuff happening over there…..
Far too many people in the US need to be sent to specific other countries to see how the rest of the world really is so they will shut up about how “tough” they think they have it.
Roger !!!!!!!!
Skippy, the real problem is that when you tell people over here about this, they say the same thing my mother used to say about some really bad thing: Oh, I’m sure that isn’t true.
The denial level is high in people who have never been near any of those places, or took the time to read the real history of the area.
I would of believed you without a doubt..
The issue is refreshed, thanks to the NYT, but it’s not new. The White House doesn’t read. The White House doesn’t watch TV. And just because this sick, perverted, despicable practice has been written about and featured on some TV programs—including NPR—for years should not translate into the White House knowing anything about it. Or Congress. Hey, you don’t suppose that this explains Lindsey—naw, forget about it.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dSoancingboys/view/
I disagree.
The White House only watches Fox News because that’s where they get their information from.
Hey Lars. I just checked the White House for you. Surprisingly, there’s nothing on this yet. So, I guess that oBaMa remains unaware of this issue, eh? If he knew, he most certainly would put an end to it–you know, as C-i-C and the Pentagonals having to answer to him. Wait. Maybe the new Secretary of the Army will do something about this–after a fact-finding mission, of course. Certainly, in his prior positions (no, not those positions!) he was powerless to sound off about this.
If he were to sound off about this he would not do it publicly. That is not his role as commander in chief.
If it was a domestic political issue he would be public about it. But it is not. It is a nuanced issue about how and when we engage and interfere in Afghan governance, law enforcement, and security issues.
I am certain he is aware and given guidance. As Bush did in the past. And this guidance was likely exactly what we would expect; this is not something we have the resources, time, mission, or capacity to change. Deal with it through our normal engagement in training, advising, and assisting in developing the capacity of Afghan law enforcement and rule of law. Do not get directly involved in these incidents except as advisors to local law enforcement.
Do you stay up at night thinking these things out? Or do you just put them down adlib?
He “sounds off” publicly about all kinds of issues, whether he should or shouldn’t, regardless of his role as commander in chief. Frankly, he doesn’t care about military “concerns” as much as he does things like gays being proud, cops acting stupidly, fighting the power, etc. He’s also the same guy who’s cutting the military while keeping us deployed. (Similar to actions of the Clinton regime in the 90s.)
I know this had been the guidance on the ground for a very long time. It has shifted a little because Afghan law enforcement has significantly more capacity and we have significantly less influence than we did even a few years ago.
I heard of these kinds of issues on a weekly if not daily basis when I worked in developing Afghan governance. I was not just common knowledge but these kind of issues were discussed in divisionamd theater level conference calls with 100s of leaders, staff, allies, and senior civilians, and other personnel listening in.
TO act like this is some “secret” that the Obama administration implemented or is covering up absurd. Utterly. In fact it is flat bullshit.
Nobody was happy with this. Just like many were not happy with the way women were treaded in general. Or children in general. Or the small groups of religious minorities, or refugees; especially Kuchis were treated. Or extrajudicial and even mob “justice” such as the execution or punishment of a woman who was raped or violated a social norm.
All of these issues were troubling and still are. All of these issues have been a problem since the beginning.
Hey Larsie-parsie the candyassed Rudy-poo, if you’re as educated as you claim to be, how’s about a little bit of proofreading and spell check before you post? Jeez, I’ve posted more coherent stuff than that when I was drunk! And no, I don’t buy a damn bit of what you claim, it reeks of BULLSHIT!
I have had dyslexia since childhood and as an adult I have developed aphasia. It is a pain in the ass and it effects my writing. The VA is looking into it and I have sought help through private insurance.
It appears to be brain/neurological because I have dysphagia and intention tremors as well.
My diagnosis would be you’re suffering from a recto-cranial inversion.
I wholeheartedly CONCUR with your diagnosis!! 😀
Instead of squabbling and eye-poking, it would be more constructive to say that while Lars is trying to make a point about the occupantS of the White House, he has missed their repeated behavior that specifically indicates a disconnect from the realities that are coming out of the news services on a daily basis.
Lars, you may disagree with me, but my news sources are NOT American networks. I can and do access Agence France Presse, Reuters, BBC, France24, and other EU sources which are less biased than US media. I do NOT see large groups of women and children in those sources. I see large groups of grown men, thinly populated with here and there with women and children. Those are military-age men who should be defending their own country but have run away like stampeding goats. I do not think we should be obligated to support them if they do not want to stand up for themselves even a little, but rather, want us (the rest of the world) to allow them to sponge off of us like overgrown children living in mommy’s guest room. None of those adult males who come from refugee camps did anything but sit on their backsides and whine when ISIS invaded their territory. They could have joined the peshmerga or the Turks or whatever, but they did not, and I have no patience with or sympathy for them if they are this shiftless. Nor do I feel that Europe, Russia and the US/Canada, or even China and the rest of Asia, should have to support them if they are too infantile to stand on their own two feet.
You can do what you like with that, but I have had enough of it, and the crap has been flowing out of the White House from the moment Kerry opened his flapping yap.
Lars. Ah. I get it. The President of the United States, the one with the most transparent administration in history, would keep his–what did you call it?–guidance–private. His guidance. You really have some issues. Best of luck with them.
It has never been private. It has always been the guidance since at least 2003 under both administrations. It was well known to commanders and most leaders.
Lars. Do you even read what you write? If not, are you unable to recall what you write from one minute to the next? I give up.
I have been consistent. This is not some “secret” scandal that Obama was trying to hide. This guidance to not get involved in issues like this has been in place for a very long time. It was well know to all battle space owners and most leaders. And was put out to leaders or should have been in every command. It was never a secret.
I am sure there were some operators in villages with little to no Afghan governance or security force presence that had the latitude to get involved in this kind of stuff but even their discretion was probably limited. I am also sure there were battlespace owners at the battalion level and below that defied this guidance though I would be surprised to hear of a brigade commander that did and kept his job for the entire tour.
Larsie the Rudy-poo, do STOP mixing bong water with the Dutch Rudder Gang Cocktails you’ve been imbibing, you’ve given yourself bad enough brain damage already!
Lars. I would love to see you painting a floor to a room with one entrance way. The only question I can’t answer is which corner of that room you would paint yourself into.
So you’re trying to tell me that all this time there was something wrong with Man Love Thursdays?
I knew I had watched this years ago: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/
One thing: EVERY day is Thursday in A-Stan.
And it AIN’T just “man-love”, we had to put up with seeing donkey-love, goat-love, sheep-love and cow-love. They’ll copulate not just with other men, but any animal that sits still for more than five seconds as well! It’s obvious that they believe men and animals are for recreation and Women are strictly for reproduction, some people just can’t be civilized, just ask anyone who was on a FOB that had Afghans about how they had to keep their latrines locked because the Afghans had no quips or qualms about “laying a brown egg” on the floor of a shower stall.
After making sure we have air dominance and broken the majority of the opposition ground force I’m sure ending child rape should be in the top, I dunno, 50 items on the conop.
This is just one more case study that drives the point home that the pentagon, the state dept, the letter agencies, congress and the administration are contemptuous asshats.
About f’ing time the MSM decided to treat this to the cycle. Slow news day I guess.
Yeah, shit’s pretty f’ed up when you’re told to look the other way for political reasons. I hope that stings.
– James Michener wrote about this circa 1946 in his book “Caravans”.
– Ahmad Shah Massoud aka The Lion of Panjshir and his cohorts were said to have swapped young boys around the campfire.
I don’t see how policy in conflict with “Army Values” was made up on the spot by battle space owners. The CIA had to know about this shit even back in Reagan’s epoch and I would think that it would have been acknowledged and dealt with in the planning/contingency phase vs. operational.
There’s a book I read by the name of Unspoken Abandonment by Bryan Wood that deals with the author’s PTSD brought on by a sense of guilt having witnessed children being abused on the streets of Kabul (if I recall correctly)during hsi deployment. This book was a free download at the time, and I think I became aware of it on this site TAH. If you are out there Mr. Wood, you wrote a good book. Thank you and I hope you are doing well.
Edit: I should have said “…his PTSD was in part brought on by a sense of guilt having witnessed children being abused on the streets of Kabul …”
I have meet a bunch of narrow minded people in my life time, but a few of you people on this blog sure takes the cake, if some of you so call educators would just stop and read what your saying, and think twice before you speak out about what the other person is saying, you might learn something about whats going on in this world, and not to name names, but I would say that half of you should go back to grade school and learn all over again.
Where the tall corn grows.
So Mr Sam maybe you could clarify your statement please….
there is NOTHING NARROW MINDED. about the toxic leadership and direction that the army is going in…
leadership starts at the TOP and trickles down. since let’s say about 7 years ago good leadership has been sacked and replaced with a bunch of yes men MORONS. it’s our commander in Chiefs
prerogative to do as he wishes with the military, with I hope,, in the best interest of our national security. the issues I’ve personally seen myself in Iraq and in Afghanistan made me SICK…
and yes it was going on under bush and has with Obama the only difference is under Obama
if you take a stand to protect innocent children of women. from being RAPED and MUTILATED
now you get Court Marshalled for protecting innocent people.! ! ! ! .. there has been at least 30 or so incidents that I investigated like this and there was never a reason for the matter to go above company or brigade level now it goes straight up to CENTCOM and rumor has it NSC and SD
which includes you Know who’s advisors. I’m not saying big bird made the rule but one of the Morons up there started the ball rolling….
Nuff Said…..
for the sake of integrity I was only involved in 3 investigations. I knew of 27 total that involved Host county nationals. Oops my bad on the numbers. Sorry….
I don’t know but before 2008 I had scenes of purpose and meaning and we thought we new were going the wright direction now it had been turned 180 that’s all.
I’m always curious to hear about my AoR from 11-12 and how it is now. It was “transitioned” to Afghan control summer 2012.
Baghdad in 05-06 was still a block to block fight in many areas while we worked. We thought it was getting better in some ways. But as soon as we left, it went to shit. As strange as it sounds, I felt like Afghanistan was a better mission and more worthwhile than Iraq.
Word ^^^^^^^^
STFU..Don’t like what people say on this website? Remove your ass from TAH and yes, they’ve been in hell and made it back by using their brains and training. Flipping you off, couldn’t find a finger.
Really, shut up and its spelled MET NOT MEET AND NO I DON’T WANT TO.
The problem with Afhganistan is that it is full of Afghans.
Word ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^