Alex Horton caught up in a police raid

| July 27, 2015

In the pages of the Washington Post, our long-time friend, Alex Horton writes about his adventures with the Fairfax, Virginia County Police. His building manager moved him into an unoccupied apartment while repairs were being done on his own home. Some of the neighbors of that new apartment were unaware of the arrangement and called the police.

An unspecified number of police officers busted in on an unsuspecting Horton, cuffed him in his boxer shorts and then conducted their investigation of the situation finding Horton completely innocent of squatting in an empty apartment.

Of course, they could have done that before they charged into the apartment, guns drawn and at the ready arousing Horton from his party-induced stupor. However doing it that way would have robbed the officer of rushing into the home of an innocent man and cuffing him.

Alex went to the patrol supervisor later;

I asked why his officers hadn’t contacted management before they raided the apartment. Why did they classify the incident as a forced entry, when the information they had suggested something innocuous? Why not evaluate the situation before escalating it?

Rhoads defended the procedure, calling the officers’ actions “on point.” It’s not standard to conduct investigations beforehand because that delays the apprehension of suspects, he told me.

I noted that the officers could have sought information from the apartment complex’s security guard that would have resolved the matter without violence. But he played down the importance of such information: “It doesn’t matter whatsoever what was said or not said at the security booth.”

Well, yes, it does matter. Horton recounts his experience as an infantryman kicking down doors in Iraq and how being on the trigger side of similar confrontations prevented him from acting a fool and endangering himself and the officers. The officers could have contained Horton in the apartment while they checked on his presence in the apartment without him even knowing they had been there as long as he remained in the apartment.

People who know me, know that I support police officers, generally, but there are incidents like this and some of the encounters that I’ve had, which make me question their training. Yes, I want them all to go home at the end of their shifts in the same condition that they left their homes, but I also want them to respect the rights of all Americans.

The Fairfax County police chief, assures us that there will be an investigation of the incident to determine “if the conduct by the officers involved was in compliance with our policies related to all operational conduct in this matter”.

If the officers’ conduct was in compliance with the department’s policies, they need to take a hard look at those policies and start coming down on the side of human rights, but not at the expense of officer safety. In this case, at least, officers were needlessly placed in danger by their own actions, or lack of action, not to mention the pointless exposure of Alex Horton to danger.

Category: Police

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Stark

“Rhoads defended the procedure, calling the officers’ actions “on point.” It’s not standard to conduct investigations beforehand because that delays the apprehension of suspects, he told me.”

What in the actual fuck? That jackass needs fired.

RunPatRun

I generally support law enforcement, but don’t hold your breath, FCPD closes ranks and protects their own.

It would be ludicrous to expect any additional information on this incident. As an example, FCPD cops shot John Geer, who was standing in his doorway with his hands up. It took a federal order to get information released. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/fairfax-pays-295-million-to-settle-suit-in-john-geer-police-killing/2015/04/21/5fe3d818-e834-11e4-9767-6276fc9b0ada_story.html

Later, an oversight committee was formed to look into communications, or a lack there of:
“Real change is needed — now,” the report says, criticizing the police for their “lip service to the idea of transparency” on both breaking incidents and routine information requests. “It is well past time for the Fairfax County Police Department to start providing timely, honest and effective communications with everything it does,” the new report declares. “We deserve nothing less.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/07/24/report-fairfax-police-need-real-change-now-in-public-communications/

Stonewalling requests and a lack of transparency is a pervasive culture. With all the bad press they’re getting coupled with pressure from the BOS, perhaps change is coming. It won’t be fast and it will be incremental at best.

Ex-PH2

Gee, and I thought Chicago PD was bad. It seems there’s worse.

Reb

I am and have been 1000% Sheriff and Officers my whole life. Until, someone I know got stopped at a DUI sting a few nights ago and I was called and ran to the sting a mile away. I approached a officer and was just about to identify myself, with my license, when he grabbed my arm and yelled what are you doing at my crime scene? I had to laugh because it was not a crime scene it was a STING. I guess it pissed him off. The 5’7 bald little man syndrome grabbed my hand and snapped my pinky finger backwards as he pulls me towards the tables. Oh we all heard the snap. He walked away like trying to calm down. His cool partner came over and asked if I needed a ambulance? Why? I heard a crack, and think something broke. He broke my pinkie, you know the way they teach at the academy to take control of a suspect. No Sir, I’ll call my son, but I will need your buddies badge number for my attorney. Little man came back and said shut your JERRY SPRINGER bullshit before I drag your ass to jail. Officer, DO it, as I handed him my license. Nice guy says go on home or head the hospital. The driver got a ticket for driving on a expired license. Little man issued me a misdemeanor ticket, for allowing someone to drive my ride on a expired license. ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE? My son jogged up and drove to the hospital. I and have a cast on pinky, hand and arm in red, white and blue. Doc said it was the most painful way to break a finger so tell me the truth. I told him how it really happened. I didn’t understand why the doctor was so mad, until he released me with a letter that explain exactly how a finger is broken that way. He is a deserve Deputy for the county. My son took me to PD to file a complaint and goodness who do I run into?… Read more »

Eagle Keeper

“I don’t want the guy to lose his job”

You mean Little Man?

If so, WHY THE HELL NOT? You’d rather maybe he KILL someone first?

Get that POS off the streets and into civilian life where he belongs.

Ex-PH2

You have metal in your private parts? Oh, wait! I misread that part. 🙂

This little guy has something politely called Short Man Syndrome. He needs more than just a talking to. If he did this just because he could, as it seems, he is going to cost the city more than a boxcar load of money if they don’t find him a different place to work – and quickly, too.

Ex-PH2

If you really want advice, here goes. This ‘cop’ was out of control. He also lied and was caught doing it. He gave you a serious injury, one which can cause neural damage, never mind other things.

He’s on suspension now, but that will end. Your description of him is that he is confrontational and on a power trip for no reason other than he’s wearing a badge. Also, I think it would be correct to say that he may get fired for what he did, because the hard evidence backs up what you said.

If he does get fired, he will probably blame you, refusing to admit that he did anything wrong even though he did do wrong things. If they keep him any place besides behind a desk, he’s a liability waiting to happen and he may cost that city a massive pile of cash and bad PR.

Whether or not he gets fired is not up to you, but stay alert because if that does happen, he will most likely blame you and try to do something about it.

I think he’s a ticking time bomb, so be careful and stay away from him.

GDContractor

“Is this particular individual the unfit mother?”
Brought to you by Carl’s Jr.

Eric

Sir, what we are doing now is, we are going to procure you a tattoo.

NotBuyingIt

That movie should be required viewing for every civics/government class – if those classes are even taught any more.

Roy-Dog

Btw, Idiocracy becomes eligible for induction to the national film registry next year. I smell a White House petition a’commin’!

http://www.loc.gov/programs/national-film-preservation-board/film-registry/

sapper3307

All that’s missing is the cops yelling “STOP RESISTING”.

Thunderstixx

Having dealt with out of control cops on a couple of occasions I also wonder why they always seem to rush into the SWAT stance and start arresting people first only to have their asses handed back to them in a later court date.
Yet they stand by those SWAT policies until the cows come home.
I’m glad for all that this one turned out to be non violent and that everyone went home in one piece.

Edward1811

On face value this is poor police work. However we don’t know the content of the call from the neighbors. If they called in a burglary in progress I can understand the officers actions. Otherwise the building management office should have been the first stop.

nbcguy54ACTUAL

Burglary in process elicits a SWAT response?

Don’t need “Beat” Cops anymore if that’s the case.

Mark L.

They weren’t SWAT.

David

+1 – “Police – quick – there’s a guy who broke into this vacant apartment down the way from me . I don’t know if he ha a gun or not but I think if you move fast you can still catch him!” would certainly trigger an over-the-top reaction like this.

Hondo

And in other news, the DC government has ordered new footwear for their police force.

The new footwear is called “jackboots”.

(Yes, I’m being sarcastic. But only slightly.)

Green Thumb

One phone call could have cleared this up.

As with SM’s, I have met some great cops and some real ignorant sacks of shit.

Just glad this Horton guy is ok. This could have ended a lot worse.

Reb

A few years ago a man put a pipe bomb somewhere and it blew up. He waited until the cops came, put the petal to the metal, then blew himself up. It wasn’t but half hour that helicopter was announcing for people to stay away from a popular place. They evaluated each house by his, closed down every entrance and SWAT, ATF, FBI hell everyone was there. The guy boobie trapped his whole house. Even the most important freeway was shut down. We only lived 1/4 mile away, but drove up to a teen drinking spot and watched. I think it was two days later that ATF blew the house up but not out. It blew up inside itself. It was on the news, papers for weeks. Had a SWAT officer also in the bomb squad not seem a trip wire? There would be so many people dead. I’m going to look for the article and send it to Jonn so he can delete location so DRC can’t find me.

B Woodman

I just wonder how well these errant jackbooted po-po would feeeeel about THEIR rights being violated (raped) if someone(s) were to kick in their house door (etc) for no discernible reason?

Eric

Funny you say that. I’ve seen quite a few videos of cops being arrested on youtube and on TV shows.

There are those that act indignant about it. “You know, I’m a Cop. So leave me the fuck alone, I’ll do what I want! So what if I was driving on the sidewalk and almost killed 12 people, I have a badge, so let me go!”

Reb

I don’t know a single cop who works the streets that gives a ratsass who you are if you break the law. I do know a DBG aka dead buried gone cop who used his shield to get the cops responding to a domestic violence call to go away. His wife reported that the next day and all three were suspended without pay and a boo boo in their file. I’ve never flashed mine. I don’t want anyone to know who I am and so do a load of others..

2/17 Air Cav

I have no problem with what the police did in this situation. None. A drunken Horton left his front door open? Yeah, that’s normal. So the police arrive because they were called, enter the place and find Horton in bed. Their weapons are drawn and no shit, since Horton could have had anything, even what he calls “an assault rifle” under the covers. No violence occurs, Horton explains what’s what and that’s it. Are we to play the “what if” game? Clearly, Horton wants us to do so, likening the action to situations in Iraq in which bombs are detonated, IEDs explode, and children are needlessly killed. He is an able writer, crafting his piece to draw a parallel that I don’t buy. And let’s not overlook the money lines: “Of course, officers’ safety is vital, and they’re entitled to defend themselves and the communities they serve. But they’re failing to see the connection between their aggressive postures and the hostility they’ve encountered in Ferguson, Mo., Baltimore and other communities. When you level assault rifles at protesters, you create animosity.” So, you see, in the Baltimore riots and in in the Ferguson riots, the real culprits were the police. Bullshit.

Dave Hardin

I agree that officers safety is important. It is not more important than my right to be free from attack by them.

The safest thing for an officer to do is to not storm through a door. There was no threat to the lives of anyone here. A man sleeping in an apartment? So what if he broke in and was sleeping.

No, I support our LEO’s. They need to back the hell up when it comes to this kind of thing.

If Jesus, Mohammad, and Buddha crash through my door like that, I will put a bullet in at least one of them. Not a threat, it will be reflex.

I will probably die. Issuing a “No knock” order of my house is the equivalent to ordering my death. In this case, a needless death.

NotBuyingIt

You’re wrong and so were the police. Since the “neighbors”(?) who called the police had no legal right to enter the premises, only management could have given permission absent exigent circumstances. I doubt Horton was screaming “Rape,” “Murder,” or “Help!” in his sleep, and a door being ajar is not sufficient for PC that a crime is being committed.

gitarcarver

So, you see, in the Baltimore riots and in in the Ferguson riots, the real culprits were the police. Bullshit. No, but the police added to the tensions but reckless acts during the protests. In addition, a case can be made that the actions of the police led to the protests. In Ferguson, the police department was a revenue source. That was its reason for existence. So when the police stop people for the purpose of making money as opposed to making the community better and safer, people are going to react to that. In Ferguson, a case can be made that so called “justice” took a back seat to dollars. That does not excuse the rioters, but it does excuse the protestors. While the rioters were burning businesses, the police were marching down residential streets demanding that people go inside their homes. (This was done without any authority of law whatsoever.) In Baltimore, the City has paid out over $5 million dollars in lawsuits from excessive us of force charges since 2011. The vast, overwhelming incidents result in the victims having charges dismissed (not even being tried) or no charges filed. The City Council just approved another $60,000 payment for a cop that beat someone up. (A cop that is still on the force as it is damned near impossible to get rid of bad cops in Baltimore.) This doesn’t include the Freddie Gray case in which the City will be on the hook for big bucks as well. Do you really approve of cops pointed assault weapons at citizens who are protesting? Not rioting, PROTESTING. One of the rules of gun safety is to never point a weapon at something unless you going to kill it. What kind of message is being sent by the police when you point a weapon at people for exercising their rights? If I point a gun at the police, I am going to get shot. If they point a gun at me, that’s acceptable? Finally, while everyone can make up “what ifs,” let’s stick to the facts of this case. Even if… Read more »

Old Trooper

“If the officers’ conduct was in compliance with the department’s policies, they need to take a hard look at those policies and start coming down on the side of human rights, but not at the expense of officer safety.”

That’s the bell ringer; isn’t it? Of course they are going to say that their policies are in place for officer safety. The problem is; they never mention the safety of those they are dealing with. Oh, usre, they say it after the fact “we stormed in and put a knee to the back of your neck for “your safety”. Of course; if they didn’t have those policies, then they wouldn’t get to get all geared up and amped up in the latest tacticool outfits from Abercrombie & Fitch.

2/17 Air Cav

Human rights? Assault rifles? Dead children? Riots that place the blame on police? Give me a break.

Old Trooper

A break? If you will note; the statement at the top is a portion of what Jonn wrote, so if you want to get all fucking huffy; take it up with him and ask him to give you a break, because I won’t.

2/17 Air Cav

I threw a few of the catchy watchwords together, and I was not attributing them to you. Yeah, I’m huffy. I think this is misplaced and that Horton is getting a pass. If someone else uses the term “assault rifle” he is vilified or scoffed at. If someone else were to attribute the wanton lootings and burnings that occurred in Ferguson and Baltimore to police, he would be lambasted here. Horton gets a pass. The police are trained top de-escalate situations. It’s in their best interests to do so, but Horton posits range training against what he calls the eight hours of de-escalation training, as if the two are comparable. And he gets another pass. I get that Horton has an agenda. He’s entitled. And I’m entitled not to jump on the bandwagon.

NotBuyingIt

“The police are trained top [sic] de-escalate situations.”

I guess these police officers missed that block of instruction.

Old Trooper

I have watched 2 separate stories, right here in my neck of the woods, in the last few years, where the tacticool squad does a no-knock on the wrong house. In the earlier one, they went to the wrong house, did their Rambo routine, threw a family, including a naked 15 year old girl, in the middle of the floor with their best knee on the neck poses, all the while with everyone else trashing their house. After they were properly satisfied that the 15 year old girl had been ogled enough, they figured out they had the wrong address and left without so much as an apology. So, the family was left with a tore up house and the indignity and humiliation.

The second one could have gone sideways in the worst way. They did their no-knock on the wrong house and the dad came to the top of the steps and started firing. They returned fire, but luckily no one was wounded. The house was shot up and the dad went to jail for attempting to protect his family from intruders. He spent a lot of time in jail and many thousands of dollars trying to defend himself. In the end; all charges weere dropped and he was released. However, he was out of a job, his house was all shot up, and he had spent his life savings on attorneys. Do you think the city or the police even said sorry??

There are some that sack up. There are some that are really good. However, there is too many that cover for the bad ones, or the situations where the cops are in the wrong. The idea that the cops are never wrong is a fallacy perpetuated by the same type of mentality where people think that in their world, no bad guys exist, so we don’t need to be armed.

Joe Williams

Anyone want to bet against me that more than one (keystone) cop had his finger on the trigger? Joe

Reb

Absolutely no bet. I say each one did. I also think that it was incredibly stupid to call in a team. Hearing noises in a empty apartment. No screaming, rape, help, etc. All they had to do was knock. No answer, get the manager and HE WOULD OF SOLVED THE PROBLEM.

A women I didn’t know called 911 that her husband was going to commit suicide. SWAT was called in. The wife kept standing in front of the officers line of sight, refused to move. Then they heard the slide and they unloaded. DRT. She filed a multi million dollar lawsuit against every officer, city cop shop, they murdered her husband. Suicide insurance companies don’t pay. Bitch lost. My daughters dad came over with a lady who wanted to know if I knew good appeals attorneys. Why? She stated to tell the story and I said stop. I know who you are, get out of my house. You killed your husband by calling 911 and you sue the very people who came to protect you…bitch. My kids father said I was rude. Your a asshole for bringing her here. You know I’m 100% on the good side. I wouldn’t even do a criminal case for any attorney. Admit guilt and do your time.

OldSarge57

These folks tend to act first and get the facts later. I had an experience in the not-so distant past where one of my NCO’s at a base near the Fairfax jurisdiction was arrested ON POST while performing his duties with one of his soldiers, handcuffed, and dragged off to jail by these “professionals”. The BDE CO was notified of his “crimes” by the department and you can imagine how things went from there. A day later…. oops! They had the wrong guy – not even close. Good thing they investigated first… oh, wait. Guess not.

Dave Hardin

The clock is ticking on ‘NO KNOCK’ entry. It is just a matter of time before they ‘NO KNOCK’ on the wrong door.

Me, I dont give a shit if they bust through the door screaming “Its Jesus”, in that moment I will defend myself.

Probably die doing it, there is never a moment when I am not within reach of a weapon. I will not think, I will just react.

I would suggest they call me first, or try knocking on the door.

The Other Whitey

It already happened in Arizona, and cost a young Marine his life.

Reb

What about Bounty Hunters? Kicked in the front door and the couple asleep exchange gun fire. Their dead, wrong house. Not one had a permit to carry. Yes, their in prison. There needs to be changes to some very out dated laws. Too many people are dying because THEIR PROTECTING THEIR FAMILY AND HOMES..

SFC D

Pima County Sheriff Doofnik had plenty of opportunities to apprehend the young man without any endangering the “suspect” or the local population.

Skippy

Dave. No knock is standerd operating procedure here in Arizona and up in Nevada…

Dave Hardin

Well, I will avoid those states. Like I said, executing a no knock entry into my dwelling is the same as conducting my execution.

I have a right to defend myself and my property. My reflex will be to pull a weapon in those first few seconds.

Reb

I hate no knocks. You never know who the guy has in his house and with what. I’m blessed that I was one of the guys and always the last one in, first one out. Treated like a equal but they always said “your a lady first”. I LOVE ❤ YOU ALL..DINNER AT REBS. Kids are cooking ??

The Other Whitey

Okay, let me start by outlining where I’m coming from. My very large and close-knit Irish family include two uncles and multiple elder cousins who make their living as officers of the law, with some of them being very well-respected instructors in their field. I consider several of my hometown’s resident sheriff’s deputies to be my friends. Additionally, when I was a kid, our next-door neighbor and close family friend was a K9 cop with a major city PD (he’s now retired) who held the slightly-dubious distinction of holding his department’s record for shootings (shot and killed six scumbags in his 30+ career), not because he’s trigger-happy–he’s not, by the way–just because he’s a shit magnet. Despite the fact that he did six times what most never do even once, he takes pride in the fact that he did not start or escalate any of those situations and did everything in his power to prevent their violent outcomes (shit magnet, remember), and that he resolved many, many more confrontations with his dog, pepper spray, nightstick, or (usually) simply talking. He and his wife helped raise me, and he taught me much of what I know about shooting, especially when and when not to shoot. The point being, I am generally a strong supporter of law enforcement and have a bit more knowledge on the subject than the average non-cop.

Having established that, WHAT THE MOTHERFUCK????!!!

No prior investigation, nobody determines the nature of the incident, or if there even IS one first, these dickheads just roll in hot & heavy at the drop of a hat. Alex Horton would have been legally justified to shoot the armed men who suddenly violently forced entry into his home. That he didn’t and instead analyzed the situation for the three seconds necessary to figure out what was going on before doing anything indicates that he’s a lot smarter than the alleged “professionals.” Thank God for that, because, justified or not, it would have ended badly for everybody.

These fuc

The Other Whitey

Comment got cut off for some reason.

These fucktards all probably put those dumbass “Major League Doorkicker” patches on all their shit and want to do all the cool shit from the “Call of Duty” games, but they can’t be bothered to take the very quick and very basic step of gathering information beforehand (known in professional circles as ACTUAL POLICE WORK). They had no indication of a need for a SWAT-type response, but clearly weren’t about to let a trivial little thing like common sense get in the way of their moto-boners. Somebody could have been killed FOR NO REASON AT ALL!! They might claim “officer safety,” but they INCREASED the risk of their guys getting shot by pulling this chickenshit by inciting a violent confrontation out of nowhere with a man who wasn’t breaking the law!

These days, “officer safety” is becoming a cheap excuse every time some Barney Fife Dipshit tries to be Judge Dredd. It’s a sad state of affairs that further widens the ever increasing split between police and the general populace.

2/17 Air Cav

TOW. Here’s the thing. The apartment was reported to be vacant. According to Horton, another resident peeked into the apartment because Horton left it open, ajar, cracked, whatever. The point is that the door was not closed. Police arrive to check it out. STOP. The police may have a crime in progress and, at least, have a very suspicious circumstance. Do they see furnishings? I don’t know and Horton doesn’t say. He does mention that he was in bed so he at least had a mattress. My point is, what the heck were the police to do, walk in with weapons holstered, hoping that there were no bad guys inside? Walk away? The “what if” game works both ways. Let’s say the police arrive but do not go in. In fact, they can’t reach the non-resident manager so they leave. A few days later a decomposing Horton is stinking up the place and the manager finds his body. An autopsy fixes the approximate time of death as the very time the police had arrived there and walked away. He had been cut and had bled out. Damn cops. Maybe Horton would be alive today, but fir the fact that the police never went in there.

David

Or, they could have knocked loudly on the door, yelled “Fairfax Police – we need to ask you a couple of questions – can you come out now please?” a couple of times before saying “We’re coming in, please do not make any sudden moves”.
The problem is not that they went in hot, it’s that they assume ANY situation is hot without any proof or cause.

Back when no-knock raids became popular, quite a few cops wound up dead or injured – they came busting in dressed in civvies, screaming, etc. trying to control the situation through surprise and intimidation. Some people have decent reflexes AND good lawyers, and the laws speedily evolved to having uniformed police at the fore, judge’s preauthorization, and many other restrictions – which save cops’ lives. Unless you have a violent criminal act in progress, hot entries like this are high-risk situations.

NotBuyingIt

I agree with this:

“Or, they could have knocked loudly on the door, yelled “Fairfax Police – we need to ask you a couple of questions”

But respectfully disagree otherwise. The problem is PRECISELY that they went in hot in this situation.

But hey, they’ve got a cool story they can tell their buddies and badge-chasers now, don’t they?

Ex-PH2

I’m sure it will seem like a cool story, unless or until Horton’s digging into it shows that there was no cause for them to act that way and the head of the Fairfax county po-po is an idiot.

NotBuyingIt

One can only hope 🙂

2/17 Air Cav

NotBuyingIt: Why would one hope that? Thanks. It puts your view in keen perspective, smiley face and all. Oh, before I forget, here are some periods (…) and exclamation points (!!!). Since you like to play typo Nazi with me, you need ending punctuation for your telling comment.

NotBuyingIt

I would “hope that” because these police officers need to be held accountable – through civil litigation, public shaming and departmental punishment – for their violation of Mr. Horton’s civil rights. That is my perspective and I hope it is keen. What is yours?

I took my oath as a deputy sheriff 18 some-odd years ago and I don’t recall the part about making sure I returned home safe, but I do recall the part about upholding the laws of the Commonwealth and of the United States.

Maybe your oaths had exceptions for the 4th and 14th amendment. Mine didn’t.

It appears you think I’m making a personal attack on you. If it seems that way, I apologize because that’s not my intent. It’s probably just that you’re the only one here who seems to think these officers’ actions in this instance were “on point.”

NotBuyingIt

“… 4th and 14th Amendments.”

There, I fixed it.

2/17 Air Cav

You are full of shit. What department are you with? Are you a turnkey or on thew street? No, I don’t regard your attack as personal. I regard it as cop loathing and devoid of reason. As for that crap you served up regarding making it home safely, THAT is the numero uno message all police get, both in formal training and on the street. Whether that leads to shoot first, ask later situations is a separate issue. My perspective is clear, or should be to anyone with some semblance of reading comprehension, so I will not synthesize it for you. By the way, what are “the laws of the Commonwealth and of the United States?”

2/17 Air Cav

Now, don’t go playing the typo Nazi with me again, Mr. Deputy who swore to uphold the laws of the Commonwealth of the United States(!), or I shall be inclined to return the favor.

NotBuyingIt

1)What department are you with? – You first.
2)Are you a turnkey or on thew street? – Have done both, but what difference does it make? Do they have different oaths? (If it makes you feel better, I was not a doorkicking’ SWAT daddy.)
3) By the way, what are “the laws of the Commonwealth and of the United States?” – It refers to the entire body of law of the Commonwealth of Kentucky and of the United States. This includes the U.S. Constitution including all amendments and SCOTUS interpretation of same, whether I agree with them or not.

2/17 Air Cav

You really are a dullard, aren’t you? Cripes. Did I say that I am with a police department? At least I got a chuckle out of your “Commonwealth of the United States” term and definition. “You go first.” What a scream. Sounds like a variation on ‘you show me your and I’ll show you mine.’ I’m done with you. You’re full of shit. And, hey, I mean that in the nicest way!

Hondo

Well, since Fairfax County VA includes a huge chunk of the DC metro area (VA side) and precious little else, I’m guessing the Chief of Police there is essentially a liberal politician. Best I can tell that’s generally the case for big-city US police chiefs and/or county sheriffs in urban areas.

In my book, that a substantial indicator supporting the thesis that the individual is either clueless or has sold out. But that’s just me.

2/17 Air Cav

Isn’t there a cop-hating site that you can find? This isn’t it, bud, despite the lively discussion.

The Other Whitey

The door to a vacant apartment is ajar with no sign of forced entry and the neighbor says somebody might be inside. Nothing about this situation indicates a threat to life. Your “he might be bleeding” scenario could be going on in literally any room of any house at any time and doesn’t hold water unless there’s a blood trail, which there wasn’t. And no effort was made to contact the building manager or anybody other than the RP before they went all Dirty Harry.

Richard

I don’t know shit about what happened to Mr. Horton.

Years ago in Alaska I built a piece of software for the dispatchers to create what I called “log entries” and for the officers to write reports. Along the way, I was told that officers want their names associated with a bust because it helps during their annual salary review and promotion boards. I IMAGINE that big exciting busts are better than small boring busts – I don’t know but it seems reasonable to me.

If a cop rolled up to the guard shack and asked the guard if he knows about some guy in apartment 4F and the guard says, “yeah, he is okay, the super just moved him there what they were working on his place” then the copy writes something like, “checked with the apartment mgmt, everything okay”. No bust, no promotion points.

Maybe someone saw that Mr. Horton had a weapon and added that to their complaint. Maybe they didn’t like his attitude and added that to their complaint. Maybe they wanted that apartment or maybe he is using a parking place they liked. Who knows.

It just doesn’t make sense to me to start kicking doors when you don’t know what is happening. Where is the intel that supported that action?

I’m just a old ugly dickweed who doesn’t know anything but that all smells like there is money involved – pay, promotion, budget … something.

Waiting for the rest of the story.

UpNorth

That’s strange, I got my pay raises as they were scheduled in my pay scale. The number of arrests I made, or tickets I wrote, or citizen assists I did made no difference.
Maybe it wasn’t called in as a “squatter”, maybe it was called in as a burglary in progress. Maybe it was called in as Grand Mopery, or Petite Mopery? Nobody has said.
“Maybe they wanted that apartment or maybe he is using a parking place they liked. Who knows”. Maybe he rattled the doors on several apartments, because, he was, admittedly enjoying the effects of the drinks he’d consumed.
It certainly wouldn’t be the first time in recorded history that a pissed off complainant embellished a phone call to a dispatch center to “hurry” the police along in their response.

GDContractor

The complainant could have really fooked Horton over if they had thrown an empty shotgun shell on the floor. Oh my.

Richard

I suppose if I published the name of the guy who told me that and/or his agency that might get somebody in trouble. It was 1981. It was the 2nd-in-command lieutenant who told me this over coffee in his office, he advised the chief on raises and promotions. I knew the chief socially and he was occasionally a guest in my home and I at his but I never asked about such things. It was a small department in a very small town. Maybe things have changed there or maybe everywhere.

Sounds like your department may be a little more “by the book”. I would not regret that. If I recall correctly where live in Michigan, me too. That story did not happen in Michigan.

I suspect that you didn’t have a guy who could lift one drunk fisherman in his left hand and one drunk fisherman in his right hand clear off the floor. If they got feisty he could bang them together to settle them down. He didn’t last because too many of his clients arrived at the jail with injuries inconsistent with the arrest — and it was a very small town. Officer O’Brian or O’Malley — something like that. Impressed the hell outta me.

Like I said, I am waiting to hear the rest of the story because it usually matters.

UpNorth

Yeah, we had a 6 step pay scale, top pay after 5 years. Then pay raises by contract, usually annually or every other year.

Green Thumb

What would Elliot, Ice-T, Olivia and Munch have done?

MCPO NYC USN Ret.

Two Words:

1. Law
2. Yer

Yes, he has a case perhaps that would be settled out of court.

He should file suit in state court and let his lawyer facilitate a reasonable outcome.

The LE response sounds a wee bit much to me based on my training and experience.

But what do I know.

Ex-PH2

Okay, it’s 7AM, I’m in the shower, and the cops try busing down my front door. That will take some work and make a lot of noise because I have a hook and eye lock on the storm door, and the mere noise of that would alert me and I would call the cops immediately.

Yeah, I’d grab my phone and call 911 and report someone trying to break into my house. I know the police here, you see, so this would embarrass them no end.

I don’t know Horton, so I can’t figure out what really happened, but I would strongly suggest he get himself a very good lawyer and through him/her/it demand some answers AS TO why these polease persons didn’t show a little effing common sense. He should also sue his neighbors, just to make them feel bad about themselves.

This sounds essentially like an over-reaction by the Fairfax police to me, but it doesn’t say if they were Fairfax county or Fairfax metro and there is a difference. It appears that the chief of that police department does not wish to admit his employees may have overreacted to nothing.

I mean, this is how those batshit crazy BATFE dinks act when they think they can get a bust around here, and then walk away laughing after trashing your house.

Ex-PH2

Oh, sorry, it does say Fairfax County. It used to be that Fairfax the town was not spread all over the place like peanut butter and jam. I guess things have changed since 1968.

Ex-PH2

Oh, and why wasn’t Horton’s door locked?

Who the bloody hell leaves the front door standing open in an apartment building?

Fairfax, VA is not Seven Oaks, Iowa, you know.

Cowboy T

It ain’t too far from it, actually, and it sure isn’t Chicago, Detroit, or NYC. Fairfax County, generally, is one of the more peaceful suburbs of a major city. I’ve seen people leave their doors open on many occasions in a lot of neighborhoods there, and nothing bad’s happened. Is it advisable to do that? Obviously not, no matter where you live, and Fairfax does have a few rough(er) neighborhoods, to be sure. But overall, it’s actually pretty safe.

I, too, question the actions of the officers in this particular case. Most Fairfax County LEO’s have been pretty darn professional to me. Therefore, I have to wonder, what’s happening on their internal training/policy side that’s now teaching them this “SWAT-like” response in such a case.

– T

GDContractor

“Who the bloody hell leaves the front door standing open in an apartment building?”

The kind neighbor who reported the “crime”. They would have been the last ones through it prior to the arrival of the police.

gitarcarver

Oh, and why wasn’t Horton’s door locked?

Who the bloody hell leaves the front door standing open in an apartment building?

The door was cracked open according to the article. Even so, unless there is something in the lease about closing a door, the choice to leave the door cracked is one of the tenant’s and not one bit of business of another tenant or the police.

As an aside, I recently moved to a new place and it took awhile to get used to the force needed to close the door as it was different from my previous home. Horton said that he had been drinking the previous night so I can see him coming home and thinking he shut the door using the force he normally used.

All of this is speculation because while I appreciate the thought, the fact is that an open door is not a crime.

2/17 Air Cav

No, it’s not a crime to leave one’s door open at night. It’s not a crime to leave one’s windows in the up and open position either. It’s not a crime to do many things that common sense says don’t do, but when police get a call of a possible B&E or burglary, they are going to check it out, with guns drawn. I cannot fathom what the hoopla is all about here.

3E9

2/17 Air Cav I’m going to agree with you on this one, at least without having further information. I’m curious what the police were actually dispatched to? Possible burglary in progress? If so then you bring as many as you can and you go in with weapons drawn. Drunk guy in an apartment? No one cares and it’s not illegal. I don’t remember the number of potential and actual burglaries I responded to during my LE days, but everyone of them you go in with weapons drawn…and hope you don’t have to use them. If the cops screwed up then he should be able to find a lawyer to take his case. Until I know more details I’m going to have to side with the cops on this one.

gitarcarver

3E9,

According to the article, the police later told Horton that a neighbor had seen the door slightly opened and poked their head in and they could see Horton sleeping on the mattress.

As for a “burglary,” remember that the apartment was empty which is why the neighbor called the police (who never even bothered to conduct a most basic investigation.) What was there to steal in the place?

Furthermore, the NEIGHBOR broke into the apartment as they did not have permission to enter the apartment which was legally possessed by Horton.

This is a case of an overreaction from the police department. If the police had treated Horton like a person instead of a criminal or a thug, the story wouldn’t matter one bit.

As it is, Horton makes the case that for doing absolutely nothing illegal, he was awakened in his apartment by men pointing assault weapons at his head. He was then assaulted by those same men without explanation or cause. (It is really hard to make the case that Horton was wrestled onto his stomach and handcuffed for “officer safety.” After all, where was the weapon? In his boxer shorts? And he was already on the ground in a prone position.

Sorry, the police overreacted and rightfully are paying the price for not doing their job and then overreacting.

I suspect that while the police will say they did nothing wrong, a jury will disagree and the people will pay for the violence visited upon an innocent person sleeping in his apartment.

3E9

I know what the article said, but before I place blame I want to know what the officers were dispatched to. That bit of information makes all of the difference in the world. Also, just because something is vacant doesn’t mean it can’t be burglarized. Hell in some states all you have to do is break the plane of a structure by reaching in a window and it can technically be a burglary.

gitarcarver

It’s not a crime to do many things that common sense says don’t do, but when police get a call of a possible B&E or burglary, they are going to check it out, with guns drawn.

Except they didn’t check it out, did they?

B&E requires intent to enter a premises without authorization. He had authorization but the police never checked into that, did they? Without intent, all there is is trespassing at the most, which is a civil complaint and requires a complaint from the owner of the property. Once again, the police didn’t bother to check with the owner of the property and instead chose to enter the apartment with overwhelming force and violence.

While you cannot fathom what all the hoopla is, I cannot fathom why the police did not even conduct a most basic investigation. I cannot fathom why this law abiding citizen was awakened in his own apartment with assault weapons pointed at his head.

The police could have and should have knocked on the door and made it a case of them looking to protect the resident of the apartment and the building. Instead, they made it a case where the innocent person was treated as a vile criminal for the horrible crime of sleeping in his own bed.

3E9

Street cops responding to a potential burglary in progress (if that’s what it was dispatched as) do not waste time trying to contact property managers or anyone else. You show up and a door or window is open you go in, weapons drawn. Why? Because if you knock the burglar knows you’re coming and can prepare. Or what if something worse like a sexual assault or kidnapping/burglary is in progress? If you’re family member(s) are the victims in that situation would you rather the police get to them as quickly as possible or wait while they conduct and investigation to determine who is supposed to be where. I don’t know what the right answer is, but until I hear both sides of the story I’m not going to place all the blame on the cops. I know of one instance where the cops tried to wait and do what they thought was the right thing and they were crucified later. Google the Chesire Connecticut Jennifer Hawke-Petit home invasion murders. Two completely different situations granted, but so far the only side of the story I’ve heard is Horton’s, and I’m not buying it as written.

2/17 Air Cav

What changed everything in this situation was the fact that Horton, back from a bar but being careful not to say whether or not he had been drinking and, if so, whether he was drunk, left his apartment door open, not merely unlocked. It wasn’t wide open we’re told but how the hell does Horton know how much it was open? Did he see it when he arrived home and say, “Oh, it’s only open a little. I’ll leave it just like that.” Did the peeking neighbor lean on it and widen the opening? Horton doesn’t know but, somehow, he knows it was just a crack. Had that door been tightly closed, if not locked, I am confident that the officers would have knocked very loudly and announced themselves. And that would have changed everything, with the groggy Horton answering in his boxers, explaining the situation, and that would have been that. Instead, for purposes altogether different than relating his own foolishness, he goes back to Iraq and likens the police to tactics employed in war. Police make errors and sometimes those errors cost their own lives and sometimes those errors cost others’ lives. That’s not debatable. Horton, however, presents this novel notion (or he seems to think it is, anyway) that if the police were more of the Officer Friendly variety and maybe not so anxious about their own safety when dealing with citizens, the world would be a better place. What he overlooks is that the police DID NOT escalate this situation, that they had every right to have their guns ready, that they did not shoot, and that if they had been more concerned with their own safety, they never would have entered the ‘vacant’ apartment in the first place.

NotBuyingIt

I disagree. The police certainly DID escalate the situation. They went from mere presence to imminent use of deadly force while Horton did nothing. Secondly, the police had no right to have their guns out and pointed at Horton because they had no legal right to be in the apartment anyway.

2/17 Air Cav

Your idiocy is showing, Mr Deputy Sheriff who upholds “the laws of the Commonwealth of the United States.” Of course you will disagree. And of course you do not comprehend deadly force policy. I know that you read somewhere about the steps in force escalation. Maybe it was that Intro to Crim Justice course you nearly passed in community college. If you read further and studied harder, you would have passed and learned that those steps are situation dependent and not, gee, direct commands didn’t result in compliance, so it’s on to step #2, and so on. So, what department in the Commonwealth of the United States are you with?

NotBuyingIt

Don’t misquote me or try to make my words into something they are not. I never said they weren’t situation dependent nor did I ever say they had to be followed in order. What I did say is that the police DID escalate the situation and if you can’t recognize that, you need to take a step back.

David

” I do recall the part about upholding the laws of the Commonwealth and of the United States” is block/copied directly from NotBuyingIt’s response… you wanna quit throwing that fictitious ‘Commonwealth of the US’ back in his face? It’s annoying and doesn’t help your case at all.

2/17 Air Cav

Thanks for doing it for me. I don’t need a vote or jury verdict here. He claims to be a deputy and says that he took an oath to the Commonwealth of the United States. He also claims that he didn’t take an oath to go home at night, belittling officer safety, the paramount–if unofficial– rule of policing. So, no, he doesn’t get a break and, David, if it bothers you so much, exercise some self discipline and don’t read my comments.

NotBuyingIt

2/17: I thought you were done with me, but I guess you’re not. Honestly, I’ve known I wouldn’t change your view since you abandoned the field of civil discourse and resorted to name calling and lies; but I cannot let your lies stand in case others stumble on this.

As David pointed out, I never said anything about a Commonwealth of the United States. YOU constructed that and even after I and others have pointed that out, you continue to use that misquote So it’s not a mistake, a misread or a misunderstanding. You are lying to attack me – but not my message, mind you.

I did not claim to be a deputy sheriff currently, though I was several years ago. Again, YOU constructed that.

I’m not belittling officer safety. I’m belittling the attitude that – as you believe – officer safety is “the paramount-if unofficial- rule of policing. “Paramount” means “above all other considerations” or “more important than anything else.” I don’t believe that officer safety is more important than any other consideration, I didn’t believe that when I was a deputy and most police officers now don’t believe that either. If you believe that, you dishonor those that have sacrificed themselves while doing their duty. I DO believe there is room for police to both uphold the law AND return home safely.

So don’t try to get others on your side of this argument by making me out to be a police hater who wants to see police hurt or killed. I’m not and I don’t.

The Other Whitey

No disrespect meant to you, AirCav, but they did not have reason to charge in with weapons drawn. Again, there’s a report of someone being inside a vacant apartment, whose door is ajar. There’s no noise, no sign of forced entry (an open door is not a sign of forced entry; those signs would be broken hardware, gouged frame, etc), no blood trail or other sign of violence. There was no threat to life and at best a very slim threat to property. There was no indication of a need for violent action. What would you say if they had beaten, tazed, and/or shot him? I understand “officer safety,” and I agree that it is very important. Like my job, law enforcement is *potentially* extremely dangerous: long periods of perfect safety (and boredom) randomly punctuated with things that can kill you very quickly. But you have to admit that a lot of departments (like the one in question) throw out “officer safety” as a one-size-fits-all excuse anytime some idiot pretends he’s the gestapo. Basically, they are taking the valid and vital complex and abusing it to hell and gone. I preach firefighter safety until I’m blue in the face, and with good reason. But I also recognize that any incident, be it fire, t/c, wilderness rescue, confined space rescue, whatever, is an inherently unsafe environment and “safety” doesn’t give me free reign to justify anything and everything. I also firmly believe that anybody who is unwilling to possibly lose their life in the hope of saving another if called upon to do so has no business in my line of work. Would you agree that the same is true of law enforcement? The Constitution, Bill of Rights, and various federal, state, and local laws are very clear on individual rights and the limits of police powers. Officer safety concerns do not trump civil rights. These knuckleheads escalated a situation that should have been a non-issue and violated the civil rights of a law-abiding citizen within his (admittedly temporary) place of residence, which they had entered unlawfully. And rather than hammer… Read more »

The Other Whitey

For some reason it autocorrected “concept” into “complex.” Fucking iphone.

2/17 Air Cav

I take no umbrage at your opposing point of view, TOW. I respect your views, as I respect those of most folks who comment here. The facts are as reported by one fellow, he who claims that he was done wrong. I would very much like to hear everything, including the nature of the PCO radio call (was it a “B&E/burglary with suspect present?”) that the officers responded to. I can’t stand one-sided accounts of anything, especially when the one side we do get is from a central character in the event being reported.

Eric

Wow dude, you did that whole thing on your iphone? Hard. Core.

Pinto Nag

I don’t blame the cops, I blame the neighbors. People are getting into other folks’ business anymore without any thought of the why or how. And what’s wrong with knocking on the door and seeing who answers and introducing yourself? Or, if you’re not sure and you’re of tender constitution, why not call and check with the manager? Why do people call the cops to address the simplest problems anymore?

UpNorth

It’s not just “anymore”, PN. I regularly responded, many years ago, to calls for someone having a headache.
Or, to walk past a husband and two teen-aged sons, to help a woman get a bat out of their house. Tennis rackets work best. Followed by brooms.
And, the complaints that the next-door neighbor shot grass clippings on their driveway.

GDContractor

I think that’s why I could never be a cop. I would trample all over the civil rights of guys with backpack leaf blowers. History will determine that the point of origin of our decline was when we allowed illegal aliens to blow our leaves and grass clippings into the street and into our neighbors’ yards, rather than pick them up and bag them. That’s my theory. I have another theory about zip ties.

Ex-PH2

People use the 911 number to call from a fast food joint and complain about getting a cheeseburger with ketchup when they asked for no ketchup. These stories come up regularly in the news. Horton may have pissed off whoever called the cops, and this ‘bust’ over nothing is the result. If it was his neighbors, he should hand their butts right back to them.

However, if the landlord/manager is present on a property, the cops should have gone there first to get permission to enter the apartment and they did not, if Horton’s account is correct. They were/are out of control and they have weapons, and they tackled and cuffed a guy who was mostly asleep.

What if he had been buck nekkid?

And just what the hell – I’m asking this again – was the door doing unlocked, so that the neighbors could leave it ajar?

I don’t care if it was merely off the latch or standing wide open, you still shut and lock your damned door!

Jarhead

Just give me the facts. What kind of flag was this guy flying in his front yard? You see, it’s the flag dammit!

UpNorth

And the t-shirt, what did the t-shirt say?

OWB

Too many questions to make sense of it all.

Was Alex inebriated? To the point of bumping into walls, disturbing people, making a general nuisance of himself and/or scaring the neighbors? Had he fallen into a deep slumber such that cops responding got no response from knocking on the door and/or doing all those things we would hope that they did prior to entering with guns drawn? Drunk or not, did he just sleep through an appropriate level of build up to their entry?

I don’t know, and neither do any of us. What we also don’t know is if the cops could see into the bedroom from the front door, if the reporting neighbors also told the cops that they watched the door from the time they called and “he” was still in there, or how much time lapsed between the time the cops first arrived and when whoever did it (were they the first arriving officers or a special team brought in?) went in hot.

Did anyone really do anything wrong here? I don’t know, and neither does any of the rest of us. Sounds like there was an over reaction by the police after Alex became aware of their activity. But, Alex also intimates that he was less than alert after an evening of revelry which would make him something less than a completely reliable witness to the events he might have slept through.

Ex-PH2

It appears from both the recent behavior of a Texas Waller county deputy during a traffic stop, and this incident in Fairfax, VA, that the people being hired by police departments are people who should not be issued weapons until they’ve reached the age of 50.

There seems to be a lack of maturity in these people that is, in my view, questionable, but without more information about it, e.g., the actual 911 call recording that generated a police appearance, it is difficult at best to know what actually happened.

However, I will add that a family out at dinner came home to find the local police department on a SWAT call to their house. Every emergency vehicle imaginable was there, including the EMT truck. When the father asked the police what was going on, he was told that an emergency call to his home address had been received (police didn’t know it was his), hence the SWAT team. He told the police officer that it was his house and he and his family had been out to dinner all evening. It was petty revenge by a nanny who had been fired by the family.

It’s entirely possible that this is what happened to Horton but without any more info than he’s provided in his article, there is no way to tell if that’s what happened.

The proper procedure for the police is to knock on the door, hail the people inside, and if the door swings open a little, back off and enter carefully, possibly with weapons at the ready.

If Horton’s description is correct and accurate, then it was over the top and the cops do need to have a lecture on not being aggressive idiots, because it would be quite easy for someone who meant to harm them to shoot all of them as they entered like gangbusters gone crazy.

I guess that didn’t occur to them, did it?

Eagle Keeper

Armed entry for a suspected squatter?

Horton could very well have ended up like Jose Guerena.

2/17 Air Cav

This Horton story I cannot shake. He now says that the police followed procedure so those of you who were hoping he would sue the eyeballs of the police out will likely now be disappointed. He also says he was hung over when the police arrived, so those of us who suspected his failure to close his apartment door was probably due to his being three sheets to the wind were most likely correct. Whatever. Aside from one admission, I am not trying to resurrect those aspects of the matter. Horton’s core issue—not the one we focused on here—was that he believes that in stressing officer safety, police departments distance themselves from the communities they serve. He used his experiences in Iraq as a parallel, pointing out that pointing guns at people who were no apparent threat did not win hearts and minds. In Horton’s view, the personal safety of a soldier at war or a police officer on the street should be a secondary consideration. And perhaps there is some validity to his position, all the more so if the soldier or police is alone and no one’s life depends on him. What I do know is that officers safety is job #1 for all police officers. A good shift, it is frequently said, is one in which you can return home from. Officers are not wedded to personal safety in all situations, no more than are soldiers. Personal risk is part of the job and valor not infrequent. I’m not sure what Horton wants. He isn’t clear on that. Perhaps he’ll offer more in the near future. Now, for the admission. I misread a statement made yesterday and added to my error by misquoting it repeatedly. You know the one. If not, see David’s comment, to which my response was damn rude. Yeah, I would say it was annoying, as well as flat-out wrong. Eventually, I went back and read the line and the egg is still dripping from my face. That was my grave error and I apologize. I see nothing else that I wrote for which… Read more »

2/17 Air Cav

Yeah, I get that I am the only one keeping this alive and that maybe, just maybe, one other person is reading this tome. But I think of it as free therapy and, besides, Horton wanted to provoke thoughts about police and personal safety… You can get killed out there. They have weapons and lots of them. They have little, if any, training in using their weapons, but the body counts and the much larger number of nonfatal bullet wounds clearly show that they can hit a target. Iraq? Afghanistan? No, I have Baltimore in mind, a place that thus far this month has recorded 42 homicides. But I could just as easily substitute the District of Columbia, Chicago, or any other city in which the drug trade thrives and gangs operate. Drug habits cost money to support and the need for money means users steal, burglarize, rob, and commit other crimes to meet that need. And drug operations are a lucrative business, fiercely competitive, with buyers having no recourse to civil law to ensure fair dealing and sellers no recourse to criminal laws to protect their businesses. So they self enforce the unwritten laws and mete out capital punishment for violations of those laws. Innocent people are sometimes shot in the crossfire but, by and large, the drug sellers and buyers are shooting one another. What I just described is not a new observation. It is life outside of the business and theatre districts of many American cities and has been for decades. Billions and billions of taxpayer dollars have been thrown at the cities and many a theorist has proposed a variety of approaches aimed at reducing the death toll. You know the litany: drug treatment money not jail, more jobs, more funds for youth programs, legalization of some drugs. Personal responsibility isn’t ever mentioned. It’s as if whole cities are victims. And if there are victims, there must be victimizers. There are. Guns are the primary evildoers. Consequently, the mayors of these cities talk about the need for more gun laws. They’re not alone in that. Politicians… Read more »

NovaLEO

I know I’m a little late to the discussion on this one, but I wanted to do a little research first. Let’s start with some context. The call came in as an Unlawful Entry. Not a civil matter of a squatter in an apartment as some of the comments have asserted. The complainant called saying that the door to the model apartment was open. Not that it was simply unlocked, but was actually standing open. The complainant knew (to the best of his knowledge) that no one was supposed to be living/staying in the model apartment, and could see that there was in fact someone inside the apartment. When officers arrived onscene they found the same. What happened next was in no shape or form a raid. A raid denotes a SWAT callout, doors being kicked in, flashbangs, team members rushing in, etc etc. What happened was an apartment search on a possible crime in progress (again, Unlawful Entry). They announced themselves twice, and then entered the apartment, finding Mr. Horton and detaining him. In his column Mr. Horton asserted that if the officers had just talked to the security guard instead of rushing in, none of this would have happened. Well, the officers did just that to confirm that Mr. Horton had a legal right to be in the apartment. When they talked to the security guard the response was essentially, “Who?”. The security guard had to contact one of the managers who was not onsite in order to confirm everything. Once that was done Mr. Horton was released and given an explanation for why the officers handled the situation the way they did.

So, let’s reiterate. No doors were kicked in, no assault weapons were pointed at anyone or even present (unless Sig P226 pistols are somehow “assault weapons” now), no one was “raided”. If you’ve got questions I’ll try and answer them the best I can.

nbcguy54ACTUAL

Well now. That sure killed the mood.

Thanks NovaLEO for muddling things up with facts 😉

OWB

Not having enough info to rationally discuss the situation has been pointed out repeatedly here. Even so, it is a discussion worth having.

Officer and soldier safety is important. Rules of engagement can help or hamper officer and soldier safety. Analyzing either or both in the bright light of day should help clarify things.

2/17 Air Cav

Bingo! I love it when both sides of an account are given. The outlandish comments above–and there are a slew of them– paint a great picture of what happens when one side of an incident is given by someone who was anything but a disinterested observer to that incident. Yes, I am positively gleeful. I know. Why should we trust NovaLEO’s account? My question is why did you (who did so) trust Horton’s lopsided, self-serving account?

2/17 Air Cav

I see that a police officer was shot multiple times in Memphis last night. He died. The shooter is on the wing. Facts are few at this point but the official statement relates that he was shot making a traffic stop. I don’t know whether he had his service weapon out and ready, as did the officers who awakened Horton last month. I can’t say whether the stop was just another tail light out or a missing plate or any one of myriad causes for a traffic stop. And I can’t say whether the 33-year old officer saw anything at all about the car or its driver that caused him–or should have caused him–to put his personal safety first and act accordingly. I know only that he didn’t make it through his shift and went to the morgue instead of home.

2/17 Air Cav

This comment has nothing to do with Alex Horton. It has to do with a traffic stop of a community college professor who was ticketed for an illegal lane change. She charged the officer with racial profiling in a complaint, wrote that he asked whether she speaks English and failed to tell her why she was stopped. Her complaint assures that she would be sending a copy of the letter to legislators. She made some allegations that could have cost the officer his job. In fact, she demanded that action be taken against him and that her ticket be dismissed. And she pointed out that she teaches “about diversity and the negative impact of racial profiling,” and that she has now become a target “of the same insidious behavior!” Um. Problem. The officer’s audio and visual devices were on and working. They were reviewed and, what lousy luck for her, the officer never asked her whether she speaks English and explained why she was stopped and why she was ticketed. The woman was subsequently arrested for her false statements. Hearing only one side of a story is never good.

http://foxct.com/2015/07/31/dash-cam-audio-released-after-professor-charged-with-falsely-claiming-racial-profiling-during-traffic-stop/

A Proud Infidel®™

I LOVE a happy ending, I wonder if her arrest and conviction could cost the woman her teaching job?

2/17 Air Cav

That makes two of us hoping for that.

A Proud Infidel®™

The article says she claims to teach & preach White Guilt (*OOPS*, diversity!), I guess we’ll see just how good her tenure is once she’s convicted! 😀

2/17 Air Cav

We certainly saw one side of Horton’s police “raid” and victimization account. And now, the other side speaks. No less than the chief of police for Fairfax penned a lengthy letter to Horton detailing the results of an investigation conducted following Horton’s well publicized complaint. Horton’s Twitter site has not yet acknowledged the letter, dated 7 Augusta and, unlike Horton’s side, the response is rather tough to find on the internet. Anyway, here it is, like it or not.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/273867345/Chief-Roessler-s-Response-Letter-to-Alex-Horton

2/17 Air Cav

There have been quite a few police officers shot thus far this year, including two officers in Troy, NY, two in Mississippi, two in Missouri, two in Illinois, two in West Virginia, three in Texas, two in Georgia, and two in Florida. Unfortunately, that’s just a sample. There are others. Over the weekend, a Louisiana officer was hit by a shotgun blast in the head during a traffic stop of a suspected drunk driver. Horton has written nothing about these shootings. Why should he? They didn’t involve him. And he remains silent on the outcome of the Fairfax County investigation of the “botched raid” that wasn’t. Why shouldn’t he? It doesn’t help his narrative.

2/17 Air Cav

Still nothing from Horton in his tweet world about the rash of police shootings. But he did chime in on the greatest story of our time: the Confederate battle flag issue.

“Saw a Confederate flag flying in Northern Virginia. Provoked more disgust than when I saw an American flag burn at a protest.”

Jarhead

Again, opinions are like hobby horses with a wooden a___hole. Everybody either has one or had one. Mine is at least worth the two cents you are not paying for it. Just because someone expresses a view that does not resonate with the LEO crowd, that by no means makes the commenter a cop hater. Common sense says the Horton incident could have been handled differently by a LEO with experience at considering ALL options, as opposed to going overboard as they did. As for the woman being pulled over for something so serious as an illegal lane change, that is ridiculous; no different than being given a ticket for not wearing a seat belt, when a warning would have been sufficient the first time. Both charges are of minimal importance, too often used at random by the bully pulpit. Bottom line is this….be a cop and act civilized when needed. Don’t spend every day trying to make someone’s life miserable just because you can. Through the years I have known some real bad characters that usually were at best able to qualify for some Podunk County Sheriff’s department. City, State and Federal won’t usually tolerate a serious doughnut gulper with a 48″ waist. Self control in the food line usually means one has logic the obese never considered. Fire back if you want to go off the deep end, please be my guest. This concludes my opinion and yours is welcome regardless. Don’t waste time if you are looking to further your opinion with an extended argument. All is fair and you are entitled free range with yours.

2/17 Air Cav

Another P/O is dead at the hands of a bastard. The officer retired in 2013 but returned to duty to earn a little extra cash. He was serving a restraining order at an office. Routine for a deputy, right? He wasn’t serving an arrest warrant. Hell, he wasn’t even entering a residence to check out a complaint. I am confident he did not have his weapon in hand when the POS he was serving pulled out a gun and shot the officer in the head and back multiple times. Now he’s dead. His name was Bill Myers. Had he not returned to work, some other officer who would have served the order would probably be dead today. No, it’s not warm and fuzzy out there and the police are not the ladies from the welcome wagon. Yeah, I put this here b/c Horton’s whine still irks the crap out of me.

L. Taylor

” It’s not standard to conduct investigations beforehand because that delays the apprehension of suspects”

This is an idiotic statement. I am not surprised one bit, however.

A year or so ago when I criticized the way law enforcement operates from first hand knowledge several members of this board attacked me relentlessly.

I think we will see a change in perception in the coming years that will make it clear law enforcement in this country is out of hand, is violating human and civil rights routinely, it is full of incompetent officers and leaders, puts civilians needlessly in danger, is costing too much money in inadvertent and unnecessary costs, and is essentially acting as a predatory/rent seeking arm of government to generate revenue for cities.

2/17 Air Cav

That quote is Horton’s. He is not quoting a police officer but is, instead, reporting what he claims the officer said. Horton is not a disinterested party serving as a reporter. He has an axe to grind and he does. Nevertheless, assuming his recollection of the officer’s comment is accurate, in context it makes perfect sense. Horton’s experience as a soldier and lefty writer does not qualify him to evaluate police practices in responding to a call of complaint. Maybe he should quit another job and join a police force–you know, to effect the change he would like to see. Or maybe he should close his door when he gets home from a saloon. (Just made myself laugh.)

2/17 Air Cav

Last Wednesday, two police officers in Kentucky were looking for a man who had attempted to mug a woman. They arrived at an apartment and were granted access by two occupant who told the officers that no one else was there. With permission to see for themselves, one of the officers took a step into a bedroom, was shot in the head by a man who was in there, and died on Friday. The officer’s name was Daniel Ellis. He had been a police officer for seven years. There is a widow now and a four-year old boy whose Dad is never coming home. I guess the police acted rashly in entering that apartment. After all, the shooter could just have been sleeping off a drunk.