What we don’t know and what we do know

| July 17, 2015

Since I’m a man of few words (no laughing in the back of the room), I’m not going to speculate, too much about the events of yesterday. What I am going to do is chronicle a few observations, sprinkled with my own commentary.

First off; I would like to extend my condolences and gratitude to the families of the fallen Marines. I pray for the full recovery of the female Sailor, Marine, and Police Officer that were wounded. I thank the police for dispatching, with extreme prejudice, the scumbag who perpetrated his cowardly acts.

Second; Whether you agree, or not, with our military personnel in garrison not being armed, it is a good discussion to have, and very prudent based on historical events. I have been in favor of our people packing in garrison. I think that even Ronnie Milsap can see that recent attacks are forcing us to change our SOP. I don’t think it violates posse come at us, since we aren’t talking about armed troops patrolling the streets, but being armed inside military facilities. People have pointed to an order put out by GHW Bush in 1992 as the reason we can’t have armed troops. Like leftists, they only concentrate on the first part of the directive and not the rest of it. He says “unless it is reasonable to expect attacks against personnel or assets”. I would think that has been qualified since 9/11/2001. I believe we all have a right to defend ourselves and return fire.

Third up; Whether it was coordinated or a “lone wolf”. It doesn’t matter. ISIS had put out the call to take out targets in the US, specifically military targets including personnel. Hasan, Bledsoe, etc., have all answered the call of “global jihad”. Just like chuckleheads in the race baiting dept. had put out calls for their buddies to attack police officers here, after the recent protests and riots in a few cities, it doesn’t take specific instructions on specific targets in order to connect the dots (well, it does seem to take that for some in the gummint). The FBI Director just said a week ago that they can’t stop everything, especially in a world of instant communications. I’m glad he told the truth and was realistic about it. Too bad no one took his message to heart.

Fourth; Several of us here have been pounding the desk, warning of these types of attacks for many years. Soft targets, like the recruiting stations, are terrifyingly easy to hit and cause a lot of damage. We mentioned this exact scenario several years ago i.e. “lone wolf” with an “assault rifle” going into a bar/grill/mall/etc. and shooting the place up, especially the target rich “gun free zones” that the bleeding hearts are so proud of. Sorry, but the only bleeding being done is by the victims of those “gun free zones”.

Fifth; I hate the morons that instantly politicize these types of events. Some idiot got on twitter within 5 minutes of this tragedy and starting bleeting about gun control. Really? You flippin’ idiot; knock that crap off.

Sixth (and last); While everyone is twisted up about the little stuff, like flags and feelings, our enemies are watching and planning. They want us distracted. They want us looking at the BS while they get into position. Yes, orders went out. Yes, those orders were carried out. The real question is; now what? What are we going to do to minimize (I say that, because you can’t stop it all) the threat?

Old Trooper out.

Category: Politics

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2/17 Air Cav

“Old Trooper out” Well, that killed the potential discussion. Want to change that to “over?”

Reb

Well said Ol Trooper

Ex-PH2

What are we going to do to minimize the threat?

My high school history teacher, Mr. Stern, said it best: Don’t assume anything.

Don’t assume that:
A – We are safe. We’re not.
B – They just want to talk. They don’t.
C – It has anything to do with politics, jobs or ethnicity. It doesn’t.
D – It has anything to do with guns. It doesn’t.

UpNorth

A wise man, that history teacher.

Rerun0369

I know thisa is not a popular idea here on TAH, but it is time to go back. Only this time, the gloves come off and the leash is cut. It is time to show the world why we are the only remaining Super Power. It is time to strike the fear of God into the world, to completely break the back of the terrorist organizations, make it known that if you join something like ISIS, your death is around the corner. No more talk about jobs and education, grind our enemies to dust through force of arms. It is the only way, and has been the only way since the beginning of human civilization. How many empires no longer exist as nothing more than footnotes in history because they ignored this simple truth.

Yes, if we go back more American blood will be spilled, more servicemembers will pay the ultimate price, but the price will be paid doing what we are meant to, taking the fight to our nations enemies, taking the offensive, and forcing them to adapt to us.

I am tired and I am angry.

MustangCryppie

Absolutely right.

I just got finished watching a horrifying ISIL video in which dozens, if not hundreds of victims were dispatched.

It was like watching videos of Einsatzgruppen slaughtering Jews in the East.

These present day scum are the same as those SS slime. And I knew a few European theater vets who told me that the only good SS troop was a dead SS troop.

Same message today. It’s time to bring a world of immense hurt raining down on these bastards.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Under a different set of ROEs I would most likely agree with you…when we are imprisoning marines for shooting some piece of shit enemy wounded and when we’re disarming troops inside the “safe” zones so our islamic “allies” can kill them with less personal risk I’m not at all interested in getting a single American wounded never mind killed….

If you’re talking, “Let them hate, so long as they fear” style warfare that is something I can get behind.

Sadly our country’s 99.3% that don’t serve in the military can’t find the intestinal fortitude to back that endeavor. That’s why most of us are not in favor of a return to the ME for any size force…

Rerun0369

“Let them hate, so long as they fear” is exactly what I am talking about. I agree, if the ROE’s are the same, I am against it, but if they let us go forth and do our job correctly, we could end this in a couple years.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Too many of our fellow Americans buy the illusion of safety that’s been presented as life in America for most of us.

They’ve never been awakened in the evening by a scream in their driveway and been witness to their parents being robbed and stabbed…they’ve never had to run out of the house with a weapon and stop that robbery.

They travel to the mall to buy $150 sneakers or $100 jeans and don’t consider that the world is filled with shitheads who hate them and how easy it is for those same shitheads to cross our borders and enter our nation to create some mayhem.

If we don’t start taking this threat seriously we will see more and more of these attacks while some fucking idiots among us call for the majority of us to be disarmed as if that stops terrorist attacks anywhere in the world.

Islamic fundamentalists believe they are serving their magical sky man when they attack the west, they believe that magic man will reward them in the next life for murder in this life. That makes them not only dangerous but exactly the kind of people with whom you can not reason. Reason doesn’t enter into their belief system, failure to recognize that is a failure to prepare and understand the enemy we face.

Arm the garrison troops as OT points out and arm anyone in the military who is in an exposed occupation among the civilian populace.

It’s inappropriate to put unarmed men and women into harm’s way.

Steve

Alright matie…many times I’ve seen your posts. Sometimes I’ve commented on them. Sometimes I’ve even offered tacit agreement.

This time, I honestly have nothing to add. The only reason I felt the need to comment is because you hit the nail right on the head.

We’re with you.
Steve
Australia

HMCS (FMF) ret.

Good job on the OPED, OT! My sentiments, exactly.

2/17 Air Cav

The comments, thus far, repeat what has been written here time and time again. The fact is, many of us can cut and paste what we wrote last year, the year before, the year before that, and so forth, and be current. The only difference is that today we have witnessed or suffered more terrorist attacks, more kidnappings, more gruesome and other horrific acts from Allah’s faithful, not to mention more international threats. Over the past seven years or so, we have grown accustomed to idiocy and non-, mal-, and misfeasance from elected and appointed officials (I do not call them leaders.) The world is in violent flux and all we get are heaps of political correctness and insincere expressions of condolence to the families of terrorism’s victims. We (the true-bluers) remain eager to support actual leadership that sees the world for what it is, not what they would like it to be, leadership that is willing to call a spade a spade and put the fear of vengeful wrath into those individuals and those nations that would destroy us. We need Pattons and Eisenhowers and we get Moerks and transgenders. We need a Reagan or even a Truman in the White House and we get a limp-wristed, lisping, meterosexual, Muslim apologist. Now you’ll excuse me while I go kick the shit out of something.

Blaster

I agree totally.

AND,,,,my poor dog runs from me every time he sees me watching the news.

Kilgore6

Time for the sheep to unleash the sheepdogs.
“…And know also that your legacy shall be that until the end of time, as the last sun sets upon this earth, in that blackest night, somewhere a warrior still stands his lonely watch.”
Ernest Emerson, American custom knife-maker, noted combat fighting instructor

SFC D

It’s not paranoia if they really ARE out to get you, and they really are. Terrorism is a tactic, not a cause. I’m all for turning the other cheek as a good man once said, but if they slap that one as well, game on. Sometimes you have to meet violence with violence. ISIS only understands violence and they need to receive it in massive quantities.

Dave Hardin

Stereotyping people because of their religion is not nice.

Whether they be a Christian a Jew or a Terrorist.

OWB

Sane people really don’t care if they are being attacked by Martians, Methodists or Muslims. When someone, anyone, expresses a desire to kill you and has the means to do it, it is simply not rational to give them the opportunity to carry out the threat.

Dave Hardin

I probably do not meet your definition of rational. I go out of my way to make sure every group of suspected terrorist wannabe’s gets an email with my name and address.

Followers of Muhammad are deluded, ignorant, sociopaths, who think some illiterate child molesting war lord from the bronze age is their hero.

Fuck them, fuck anyone that defends them. There will be nothing close to civil tranquility as long as they exist.

Dave Hardin

Oh, I forgot to mention

FUCK ALLAH, MOHAMMAD, AND THEIR FOLLOWERS.

Jarhead

Ditto from L A. Fuck all those towel head goat fucking filthy stinking Muslim bastards who want to kill all of us. Nobody has thought of this yet (or rather, not written), but how long before the same POS will start going after vehicles with a D V tag on the back? Try me you mother fuckers and see what a CCP means to one who is always looking around the corner, front to rear, and side to side. Call me paranoid, but call me alive and alert. Looking for your 72 virgins? I’ve got your ticket!!!!

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Sometimes Dave I think you are far too subtle in your pronouncements.

Moving forward you’ll feel a lot better if you don’t hold back so much and just state clearly how you really feel!! 🙂

Dave Hardin

Thankx, I use a copious restraint when posting about people killing my brother Marines.

I like to keep things as PC as possible. Maybe one day I will just let my real feeling come out.

Semper Fi Brother.

Ex-PH2

‘Domestic terrorism’ in this country is not new. It’s been around since before the Weather Underground blew up their pipe bomb factory in the 1970s and killed some of their own members in the process. It was the motivation for the Symbionese Liberation Army when they kidnapped Patti Hearst to try to get money out of the Hearst family. Most of you don’t remember those things because you weren’t even alive back then. It’s not something new, but it has revived and seems to be growing, and for that reason we need to be alert and aware of our surroundings, instead of assuming that we, as a group of people who are targeted by radicals of ALL sorts, are safe when we are not. That shootup at a shopping mall in Nairobi last year, and the attacks on two separate businesses in Paris, France, early this year, show that it can happen anywhere, to anybody. I should include that moron in a chocolate shop in Australia few weeks ago, shouldn’t I? There is an entire population demographic so braindead about self-defense that they willingly hand over their expensive toys and junk to any criminal because they really believe you shouldn’t fight back. You’re supposed to ‘reason’ with them – whatever that means. So what do you propose? Round up anyone who has a thick beard on his face or wears a scarf on her head and send them packing? Do you really want to see the military on the streets of this country because one asshole with a hair up his backside shot up a recruiting station? We want our freedom, but until everyone realizes that freedom isn’t free, that it requires something of all of us, this kind of thing will continue to happen and will continue to be a law enforcement problem, just as the beer keg bomb builders were when they were arrested during the Chicago NATO conference, and just as McVeigh and Nichols were a law enforcement issue. It’s up to us as individuals to be aware and alert and stop taking freedom for granted. Because… Read more »

Rerun0369

Keep this nation free, allow all to worship as they wish and be who they wish.

No, it is time for those of us still in uniform to go back and finish the job we started in ’91 and restarted in 2002.

Only this time, we actually finish it, the military does what it is supposed to do, destroy, without mercy, our nations enemies. Make it so costly in terms of blood, that they don’t dare attack us again.

That is the end game. That is what will be required, we can’t reason with the radicals, we can’t negotiate. They do not want to live or coexist with us peacefully, they want war, and I say give it to them. Let these assholes realize the mistake they are making, let them poke the bear until wakes up. Let them see the wrath and vengeance that can be paid upon them in the middle of the night. Let them tell stories to their grandchildren of the boogeyman U.S.A. that comes in the middle of the night.

Let them fear us.

Ex-PH2

Agreed.

Joe

As a civilian, I have to tell y’all I was absolutely STUNNED to learn that these guys are unarmed. And let me identify myself as a pretty educated guy. It freaks me out. How did this happen? Posse Comitatus as a crock of sh*t that has NO APPLICATION in today’s U.S. Now, is everybody else stupid and I’m smart, or is everybody just blind and deaf? You have GOT to be kidding me? ALL THESE GUYS ARE UNARMED?? Why don’t we just put a full-page ad in all the big newspapers that says SOFT MILITARY TARGETS AVAILABLE, EVERYWHERE. IF YOU SEE A GUY IN UNIFORM, SHOOT HIM. HE’S DEFENSELESS.

Yeah, it’s that crazy, I still can’t believe it, and if our congressman ever comes to town … he never does, but he needs a new one chewed for THIS ALONE.

Haywire Angel

Joe, anything Federal has this policy. I remember living on base, and single folks have to keep their firearms in the base armory.

I’ve told my employers that since I cannot carry at work (Fed job), that I will have an alternative means of protection. They want us to just press a “panic button” that just flashes lights and makes a loud noise in the other parts of the building. I will have no regrets losing my job if I save lives. I won’t be stupid about it, but I’m not rolling over to some jackass who thinks he is doing it for whomever, or protesting the government.

2/17 Air Cav

Ex-…Singular and separate instances by individuals and even small packs of individuals using violence to advance their cause or to satisfy their bloodlust has nothing whatsoever to do with the organized, Muslim-based, use of random and directed terrorism to accomplish a goal, with overt and tacit support by omission or commission from governments. I’m surprised that you didn’t mention Sacco or Vanzetti.

Ex-PH2

I thought my post was long enough, Air Cav, and I didn’t include the tactics of Sinn Fein or the IRA, or the Serbs and Austrians (Ostriches) at the beginning of the 20th century.

The history of this kind of thing goes back a long way. I couldn’t include everyone.

Friend S. Wilkins

What I would do is allow E-4s and up to wear sidearms at all times, so long as each Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine passed a battery of tests. No problem.

Friend S. Wilkins

Yeah, you got a point there, Old Trooper. I just don’t think it’s a good idea to allow people fresh out of basic that much responsibility.

2/17 Air Cav

Get the ball rolling. Sure, it will take additional training but sandbags surrounding the local mall’s recruiting kiosk aren’t very becoming. Besides, the public at large will not blink to see a military member with a firearm.

Airdale USN

I’m pretty sure if they are doing Recruiter Duty, they all ready have at least 3 years in. I say have a armed guard there. Not hard to get qualified on a fire arm, in the Navy shit, PQS you to death. If you don’t wont active duty, get a National Guard or the Coasties (who doesn’t) fall under that rule of having a firearm state side.

SSG E

I might require sergeant’s stripes, but I do agree.

The training required for small-unit combat is different from the training required for personal self-defense – training to react to indirect fire or move in a wedge isn’t going to prepare you for an active shooter in the JRTC. So I wouldn’t mind requiring a little additional training, some range time, etc. And hell, that’s soldiering skills and trigger time, which we could all use more of.

David

Friend, no offense, but I am calling bullshit on your comment: are the kids in the military inherently less trustworthy than civilians? Have you seriously looked at the requirements for CHLs? In many states it is an application process, in most there is a token classroom time (rarely more than a day or two) followed by range fire qualifying that bluntly is almost difficult to fail. And you think that basic training is less stringent than that? I would say the rawest Basic graduate is probably already better trained and qualified than 95% of civilian CHL holders.

Friend S. Wilkins

David, I’m just going by own personal experience. When I got out of Great Lakes back in late January 1997, I didn’t know jack. It wasn’t until (well over a year later) I qualified with the Beretta in order to stand watch as Petty Officer of the Deck (USS Toledo SSN 769). And even then, I felt like I needed more training. Much more training.

David

I think we’re actually on somewhat the same page – the general level of Basic is far superior to what average civilians do before receiving a CHL. The mindset is plnted (which is the most important part). As for specific handgun training – you are correct that the military does not teach the specifics to every swingin’ Richard who trains except in specific MOS. I would think that would be easy enough to rectify that, though.

SSG E

My concern with Joe walking around with a 9MM on his hip isn’t that I mistrust him more than I mistrust the general population – it’s that the consequences when Joe screws up will be far more costly for the project. The 2nd Amendment doesn’t apply to us in uniform, which means bureaucrats can snap-back to gun bans administratively, without anything to stop them.

How about a pilot program that starts at E5, and expands from there?

Ex-PH2

Aren’t you forgetting that the Boston bomber brothers Tsarnaev used a pressure cooker? You do realize that if you buy a pressure cooker for canning you now get put on a list of people who own pressure cookers, right? I don’t know why you can’t just can tomatoes with the usual hot water bath.

And the NATO wannabe bombers were using beer kegs to build bombs in an apartment that they rented in Chicago.

There was that guy in Times Square NYC last year who tried to use his car as an IED transport.

Ex-PH2

Unless someone is knowledgeable about chemistry, I think it’s much more difficult here than it is in the ME to do something like that. Over there, an entire network is devoted to supplying the materials for homemade mines, which can be very powerful, as I saw on ‘Bomb Patrol’ – enough to blow an 8-foot deep hole in a roadbed.

But here, even mining companies and demolition companies have to account for their materials, so where would the other stuff come from? I won’t make suggestions, because I don’t want to give idiots any ideas, but you’d have to have a source for it or know how to make it.

nbcguy54ACTUAL

You don’t always need a “big” explosive device to achieve your intended results. Small devices, containers with the markings of chemical weapon or radioactive materials placed in the appropriate locations can cause mass panic, tie up resources and shut down things that a large device could never do.

2/17 Air Cav

Well, if you can steal them in ready-to-use condition, it’s even better. Thank goodness the government is keeping close tabs on this stuff–well, except for the 539 pounds of explosives and detonator cord stolen from a government bunker in Montana right after the Boston Marathon Terrorist attack. The bunker was guarded by trees and a few rocks and there was that fence with signs saying, “US Government Property No Trespassing.” Why that didn’t work is anyone’s guess.

Ex-PH2

Oh, did you forget all that nuke material that went missing from the Oak Ridge reactor site a decade or so ago? That’s never been accounted for, has it?

Milo Mindbender

Pressure canning is the only safe method for preserving low acid foods. I can meat, and stews with mine. Any household item can be misused by someone with a high IQ, and low moral threshold.

Roger in Republic

At what point does this kind of attack become so normal that we become numb to them? Our enemies are bringing the pot to a boil so slowly that we can’t feel the heat. Have we passed the tipping point where righteous indignation becomes numbed acceptance? At what point do we clamp down on these barbarians and fight back?

I propose that we darken the lair of ISIL, turn off the lights, and make it impossible for them to use the telephone or the internet. Put whatever manpower and resources required to hunt them down on the Net and if necessary terminate them. Let the NSA track, expose, and terminate their recruiting activities.

Perhaps we need to hold the terrorists families hostage. Let these Jihadies know that their fathers, mothers, wives and children will be interned indefinably if they wage war on the United States. Their citizenship, and all of their relative’s will be deported. The family of an enemy combatant will be judged to be enemy aliens and dealt with. While the internment of the Japanese was a bad move it could act as a model for this emergency. Until we are ready to get Draconian on these people, we will never get their crap to stop.

I hear today that the Tenn. shooter may have taken a trip home to the ME. He should have been subject to a third degree interview upon his return, at the very least. It boggles the mind that we are still allowing “refugees” from that region. We are importing our own demise.

19D2OR4 - Smitty

Here is an idea, why not let those of us carry CCW that wish to do so?

Perhaps something like this would appease the nuts at the top:

Pistol must be registered on post – already required
Soldier must pass the combat pistol course in order to carry – Already required to carry the M9/M11
Soldier must get approval from their CO to have weapon on post – already required
Soldier must not be flagged for unfavorable conditions – already regulation
Soldier can lose the right to bring a weapon on post – already regulation

Now what I suggest is:
Soldiers can apply for a CCW issued by the Provost Marshall and good for carry on any US CONUS post. Only needs to be renewed when you PCS.
The only other requirement other than those listed above is an annual or bi-annual requirement to requalify at the combat pistol course to keep your CCW valid.

Old 1SG, US Army (Retired)

9-11… so soon we’ve forgotten!!!

It’s time to awaken the sleeping giant!