Congress opposes “green tip” ban
The Washington Times reports that 239 members of Congress have signed a letter to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Director Todd Jones asking that he oppose the current moves the agency is planning to ban 5.56mm “green tip” ammunition that is used in most AR style rifles.
White House press secretary Josh Earnest said this week that President Obama supports the move because he believes a prohibition on armor-piercing bullets will save the lives of law-enforcement officers.
[…]
“The ATF should refocus its efforts on serious threats to law enforcement officers,” the lawmakers wrote. The agency “has not even alleged — much less offered evidence — that even one such round has ever been fired from a handgun at a police officer.”
I suspect that the boneheads in the White House want to ban it because of the green paint on the tip of the bullets. Knowing how they’re scared of the appearance of most black rifles, I’m sure they think that the paint gives the ammunition certain supernatural powers.
If they actually tried to fire an AR pistol, they’d realize how clumsy and unwieldy the thing is. An AR pistol is difficult to bring to bear on a target, and even harder to aim with any accuracy. Anyone using it against a cop with a holstered standard semi-automatic handgun is at a disadvantage. They should encourage criminals to use them in crimes – if the BATFE knew what they were actually doing. But that will never happen.
Category: Gun Grabbing Fascists
Someone educate me please but wouldn’t Congress have to pass a law banning this ammo?
Does the ATF director have the “powers” to ban ammo? I know king Obama has been ruling by decree but his minions have the same juice? This is bullshit!
Here’s a good article that explains it. In a nutshell, the administration is relying on the Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act (LEOPA) of 1986 for its authority. The law was meant to protect LEOs from certain ammo that essentially had no sporting value but was used against LEOs. The problem is that there is zero evidence that the ammo at issue has ever been used against police and no case has been made against this ammo by ATF. So, this is unquestionably a grab by Obama. The letter sent to ATF is a nice way of saying, ‘Hey, don’t do it. This is not the intent or design of the 1986 law.’ (The actual words used in the letter are: “Neither LEOPA nor any other provision of federal law is intended to restrict the development of ammunition or handguns that were designed and intended to be used by private citizens for legitimate purposes.”
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/03/bipartisan-senators-demand-answers-from-atf-on-ar15-ammo-ban-n1964711
The executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police has said that the proposed ban is “not necessary”. James Pasco said that “the M855 round itself “is not typically” one that is used against law enforcement”.
So, Barky Øbola and his ATF are proposing a solution in search of a problem, one that doesn’t exist.
http://www.ammoland.com/2015/03/fraternal-order-of-police-obamas-ar-15-ammo-ban-not-necessary/#axzz3Te9h6B5s
Again, the question I have asked the gun-grabbers remains the same:
Exactly how many police officers have been killed with this type of ammo over how long a period?
I can’t seem to get an answer to this question.
Silentium Est Aureum…And you never will get that answer. Why? Because the numbers, if there at all, are miniscule. Thugs like cheaper, easier to conceal weapons and ammo. An AR pistol like the MAC 10 is a “spray and pray” weapon. Thugs like to shoot with the “sideways aim” bad guy aiming method. Police are not going to face these from criminals any more than anyone else. Never from a law abiding gun owner. So, you’re right on. This is about gun grabbing, pure and simple and nothing more. Another step to get rid of AR ammo used by many law abiding sports and shooting enthusiasts.
Addendum…The next ban will be on gun cleaning fluids and lubricants and Tru-Oil.
You can easily make our own solvents like Big Red (let me know if you want links.) And unless you go and play in a big sandbox again, for normal purposes you will find that one of the best all-around lubes is Mobil 1.
Because they can’t find any….! And its bullshyt anyway, just obozo trying to get his foot in the door, if he gets away with this ammo, he will come up with another and another, poor man’s gun control!!
So let me get this Right… We have total disdain for police but we are doing this to protect them ..
Hmmm I smell a rat here
Skippy, what you smell is the pavement melting on the good intentions road. And you know where that goes.
Ex-PH2. I’m afraid to think about it Lol….
That’s a very good point right there!
Who has total distain for police?
From what I have seen the AR platform “pistols” are about 2ft long and at least a grand.
Not your typical criminal tool.
Wonder what happens to all the negative emails and addresses the ATF is getting during the open comment period?
The title of Chapter 14 of Robert A. Caro’s book Means of Ascent (the 2nd volume of his multi-volume bio of LBJ) comes to mind. But I could be wrong.
As an aside: that book IMO is truly fascinating, and highly recommended. Particularly if you want to know what really happened in that 1948 Senate primary that could have ended (and almost did end) LBJ’s political career.
Hondo…Was that the famous 87 vote, “voting the graveyard” election?
One and the same. Means of Assent documents how LBJ stole that primary from Stevenson.
And yes – the word “stole” is IMO absolutely correct. However, in most cases they weren’t graveyard votes. Most were outright fraud based on living individuals whose poll tax receipts were controlled by the “Duke of Duval”, George Parr, but who didn’t vote at all. (The poll tax was legal at the time, and was in use in Texas.)
In Texas politics at the time, vote fraud was fairly common. There were two common ways – “voting ’em”, and “countng ’em”. “Voting ’em” involved getting people to the polls to actually vote for the desired candidate, often with “inducements”.
In contrast, “counting ’em” merely required reporting votes as cast that never really were. The number of poll tax receipts provided an upper bound on the number of votes that could be “counted”. Often those poll taxes were paid by political bosses – who then retained the receipts and “counted the votes” of those receipts however they pleased.
The Duke of Duval “counted ’em”.
Was ’48 when LBJ was famously advised to spread the rumor that his opponent had sex with farm animals? His response was “NO one is gonna believe he fucks pigs” to which the advisor responded “yeah, but he’ll have to spend the rest of the election denying it”
Nevertheless .. they exist and in numbers
Extar EXP Extreme Lightweight Pistol, 5.56 NATO, 8.5″ Barrel, 30-RD Mag- $449
“*Overall Length – 18”
Kel-Tec PLR-16 Long Range Pistol 223
“Length: 18.5″ 470 mm ”
The Kel-Tec will set you back less than $400
Should have paid better attention at the last gun show….
Kel-Tec makes nice stuff.
I agree!
That Kel-Tec looks like something Han Solo might carry.
I know where my next $400 is going.
I’ve fired a Kel-Tec PLR-16. Unwieldy leaves a lot to describe it’s handling. The shroud let me use two hands but mine are still so close together, I could not maintain a group, with three shot quick fire, at 25 feet, worth the price of the ammo. I’m a fairly stout and stocky guy too. I’ll save my ammo for my long guns. A lot more fun and a hellava lot more accurate, up close and down range. Personally I don’t see the use of these types of weapons except just for fun and bragging. However, I think they should be as legal as my old Savage Model 1914 octagon barrel, pump 22. I’ve been plinking with that since I was a boy when my grandfather gave it to me. Still as accurate as my first shots.
ive investigated hundreds of shootings. Some Leo involved, most not. I’ve yet to see an AR platform of any type used for an illegal purpose. I have seen one used in the defense of another during a violent felony. A Leo used it. Other than that the only time you see them on the street is when they have been stolen.
All cops I know are not in favor of this ban. We like to use green tips for practice and plinking too.
The AR platform just isn’t used by common street criminals. Too unwieldy and hard to hide.
I want to see if I understand this correctly. This ammunition is specifically designed to fit and be used with a specific firearm, a handheld AR handgun. (Not sure which model, but it’s a gun.) The weapon itself is unwieldly for most people – average peeps like me – to use. The ammunition fits only that weapon. The assumption is that anyone wearing body armor has no protection against someone using this weapon and ammunition. Okay. My answer is: Gangbangers don’t get their weapons at gun shops. This ‘weapon’ is obviously a spray & pray deal, not something I would lust over, because I like precision. Gangbangers don’t get their weapons at gun shops, they go to drug dealers from the cartels. I’m just guessing, but I doubt that it’s something I could hide in my purse or my camera bag. Gangbangers don’t get their weapons at gun shops, they go to drug dealers from the cartels and they don’t get licenses for CCW. I couldn’t use it for hunting, not even the stray coyote. Gangbangers don’t get their weapons at gun shops, they go to drug dealers from the cartels and they don’t get licenses for CCW or anything else, including driving a car. It’s easily identified by the green tip, which is just paint and easily replaced or covered with glow-in-the-dark hot pink. Gangbangers don’t get their weapons at gun shops, they go to drug dealers from the cartels and they don’t get licenses for CCW or anything else, including driving a car which is usually stolen. I don’t know what point the idiots at BATSHITCRAZYFE are trying to make, but I don’t think any of them have a clue. They sure do engage in hysterical histrionics, though. They actually do think that gangbangers get their guns and ammo at gun shops. Gangbangers don’t get their weapons at gun shops, they go to drug dealers from the cartels and they don’t get licenses for CCW or anything else, including driving a car which is usually stolen and used for drive-by shootings and smash-and-grab robberies. In case anyone is… Read more »
Of course, PH, but every time they direct our attention over here, they are pulling something else over there. They are masters at misdirection.
Besides, they don’t care about truth and silly concepts like that. As long as they can create some sort of response, they are in control. Control – that’s what its all about.
How many times in the past few years now have they done something similar? Their threat to make the purchase and/or possession of something illegal results in millions of Americans focusing on the acquisition of that item. Not only have they controlled the message they control the actions of those millions of people and probably now have a list of everyone who recently purchased whatever it was, which never did become illegal.
And folks wonder why they feel like they are being manipulated.
But what a way to bump up sales! Start a panic attack over ammo that most people don’t use, just to get them to buy it!
I guess bodaprez thinks he’s being clever – AGAIN. NOT!
one caveat above… the M885 is made for rifle. The reason they are trying to ban it is because there are a very few semi-auto handguns which are chambered for it.
I wonder what the hell they are REALLY trying to do – everyone is focused on this, and not looking at anything else.
This is nothing more than a back door way to get rid of “scary black guns”. Dry up the ammo, guns go away or some such bullshit. The liberal mind never ceases to amaze me.
Thank you to 2/17 Air Cav for the link and the explanation concerning the Obama administration over reach on this ammunition. Change you can believe in. Yep yep yep…..God help us…..
If we can ban one. WE can BAN more ammo. ATF thinking at it’s best. Remember they banned the return of thousands of M-1s and M-2 carbines and gae no valid reason. Joe
We need to ban the 460 Weatherby 500 grain full metal case round because a gunsmith in Colorado made a pistol out of one. Out of a 26-inch barrel, that bullet has 8,100 ft-lbs of energy. I shudder to think of the recoil in a 10-pound rifle, let alone any sort of handgun.
If a 460 Weatherby could be a pistol round and you can use that reasoning to ban 855 then you can use it for everything. If you cannot use that reasoning for everything, if there is a judgement call, then why in hell would anyone think that 855 is worth banning?
I think that they are doing it to (a) piss off the gun rights people and (b) because they can. Otherwise it is a waste of money for no benefit.
If you cant ban the car ban the gas.
Always
Think
Forfeiture
The ATF goons had that logo on some of their gear that taxpayers wert supposed to ever see. After some of it became famous their supply guys hade to track it down before it ended up in front of a congressman’s desk.
What if all ammo was pointed green in the tip?
First they ban all the non-lead or stuff+lead ammunition.
Then they “discover” that lead is dangerous and must be banned.
Right. No one will see that one coming.
If they want to protect LEOs, ban Benjamin Crump, Louis Farrakhan and Occupy Wall Street, who are responsible for more cop killings in the last two years than any AR
ATF is antithetical to the 2nd amendment. Would citizens stand for any other agency dedicated to restricting other constitutional rights?
Apparently “shall not be infringed” really means “shall create governemnt agency specifically to infringe”
Fucking pricks.
Having shot several bad guys with green tips, if i ever had to choose something to get shot at with a rifle, it would be these.
in and out, they get up and flip you off as they are running away unless you get a head, heart or spine shot. compare that to modern .223 ammo out there and you would think that they would want the streets flooded with this stuff. i’m just saying…
GAWDAMMIT!! IT AIN’T ARMOR PIERCING!!
I know that looks cool and evil in news reports, but the bullet contains a “penetrator”, NOT a hole punch.
Armor piercing bullets have ONE job: poke holes in material that would stop conventional bullets. M855 DOES NOT DO THIS.
This ammo is no more dangerous than the old M195, except for being heavier, and travels further in medium before it upsets. We switched to M855, because the M249 MG ran way too fast with 55gr bullets of the M195 round. To slow it down without changing any mechanics, they went to a heavier bullet. Heavier bullets will penetrate further due to mass, so the steel insert was developed to encourage upset…literally bending and breaking the bullet during terminal impact.
That NATO did not want two different bullets with the logistics nightmare, is why we settled on the M16A2 having a 1-7″ twist to accommodate the new heavier bullet.
To emphasize: M855 is NOT “armor piercing”….so quit using that fucking word!!