Coburn says that Veterans are breaking the system
Republican Senator Tommy Coburn is on a tear again – this time it’s about “triple-dipping” veterans who get a retirement check, a VA disability check and social security. Coburn claims that the weight of the payments to veterans is what is causing the debt, I guess. According to Military.com, there are 60,000 veterans who are triple-dipping.
Some lawmakers say the report shows the need for better coordination among government programs that are facing severe financial constraints. The Social Security Disability Insurance trust fund could run out of money in as soon as two years, government officials say.
“We should fulfill our promises to the men and women who serve, but we need to streamline these duplicative programs,” said Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., who requested the study.
Veterans groups disagree. They say the retirement money was earned for years of service in the military, while disability payments are compensation for service-related injuries and wounds.
In most cases, veterans who receive a combination of benefits are severely disabled. About 4 in 5 veterans who got triple payments had a disability rating of at least 50 percent, the GAO said. Nearly half of those receiving triple payments were at least 60 percent.
Well, if that such an odious thing, the government should pay back, in lump sum, our contributions to Social Security if collecting Social Security is going to put the program in danger.
Besides, I call bullshit on paying veterans what they earned. I know a fellow back home who was fired for smoking pot on the job, he was fired and can’t find anyone stupid enough to hire him now – so after a while on unemployment, then on welfare, he’s on SSID, and I’m sure that there are far more of those cases than there are veterans collecting on benefits that they earned.
Veterans are the easiest to blame for the government’s overspending. For decades, retired veterans paid for their own disability from the VA by reducing our own pensions by the amount that the VA paid us. I didn’t hear anyone stand up for us then, but now, suddenly, were getting enough money to live on and it’s too much.
The article says that there is someone getting more than $200k in benefits. I’m not thinking that’s an enlisted soldier – but guess what, it’s the enlisted soldiers who make up the bulk of those who will pay the price for this one guy (I’m guessing that he’s a general officer) if Coburn gets his way.
In the interests of full disclosure, I’m not a triple dipper yet. I earned too much money this year to qualify for Social Security Disability, but I probably will qualify next year. I’m not a six-figure dipper, though, but I’m comfortable.
Mostly, I’m just tired of veterans being the target of the budget cutters because the politicians don’t have the cojones to cut where the real waste lies.
Thanks to Chief Tango and Chockblock for the links.
Category: Veterans Issues
How about cutting congressional budgets and salaries?
No?!?!….then GFFY
/cocksuckers
ChipNASA…Rock On brother!
Fuck that piece of shit. You cannot get Social Security Disability without having paid into SS. We earned our disability from the VA by getting fucked up while in the military, and for those collecting a retirement fro mthe Military too… I have no issues whatsoever with them collecting on all three.
No kidding. After being medically retired from the Army, I was on SSDI and receiving VA disability for a few years. When I was all healed up and ready to go back to work, I did. So now I’m paying back into the system again. Fuck these morons. It’s people like my lazy ass clients who milk the system that are draining the coffers — not veterans who may be receiving retirement, VA disability and SSDI. Shit, they might just be receiving a living wage.
Start hacking at your own fucking salary and benefits first, Senator. Then we’ll talk.
Has Cunt – *COUGH* I mean Coburn or any of his ASSociates in Clowngress EVER called for investigating welfare fraud as well as in other Government handouts?
A Proud Infidel®™…Now you’ve done it! You’ve pointed to the BIG UGLY ELEPHANT in the living room eating Cheetos, drinking booze or smoking dope while they play XBox all day. Able bodied? Far more than me and as much as anyone in the 20’s and 30’s and 40’s. Willing to work for a living? HELL NO!!! Not as long as Uncle Sugar keeps inviting them to come get more, more and then…more. Cell phone dead? You know, the one taxpayers fund to help welfare folks be able to respond to potential employers while they’re looking for work. No problem bro! Just head down to the big tent giveaway, EVERY MONTH in my state at the welfare office and get a new Smartphone with all the latest apps and games. (For when you’re too lazy to get off your dead ass and head to the Red Box for another flick or XBox game.)
Yes, straighten out the welfare, SNAP card, Section 8 Housing and many other giveaway programs fraud (which is a HELL of a LOT!)and we will damn near not have a financial problem in the country!
But NO! Let’s put it on those who WORKED for a living and especially those who SERVED AND WORKED, by giving their life’s career and best years, not to mention, often their blood and limbs, to the service and defense of this nation. So “freeloaders” nationwide are “free” to keep getting their “free” shit.
Fuck Coburn! (the RNC should field strip him in public of his Republican status like Chuck Connors in “Branded”.) As soon as he gives up part of his salary, his healthy pension, his premium lifetime medical care and promises never to make a dollar off of speaking engagements or anything to do with his worthless service in Congress, then speak his mind about veterans. Until then GFY, then GFY and then, GFY again Coburn!
Even “welfare queens” are a relatively small part of the problem in actual dollars. Much bigger are the billions and trillions in corporate tax breaks, subsidies, handouts, and sweet contracts. These are usually bought from Dr. Coburn and his ilk with contributions while in office, with much bigger payouts when the Congressmaggots leave office and become lobbyists.
I feel bad for even getting my Vet Benefits. I know that I need them, and they help in a number of ways, but I also know that others who may need them more should be getting them. I don’t think I could even look at myself in the mirror if I were also getting SSD for my PTS. The thought of dealing with more of the bureaucratic morass makes be feel sick to my stomach.
There are Veterans Service Officers who specialize in dealing with the bureaucracy and will advocate for you. They did all my paperwork when I was retiring and got me a %70 rating from the VA. Go see them.
And don’t feel bad about collecting something you earned.
60,000 are breaking the bank compared to 109,631,000 on welfare who are not?
There are over 150 million Americans getting some kind of government benefits other than veterans benefits. (The entire nation of Russia has 142 million citizens.)
Taking shots at us must be easier for him than going after real solutions to the problem.
Don’t forget the federal union employees and their rather inflated salaries and benefits packages, paid by tax dollars.
How about the 57,000 Federal employees currently on extended paid administrative leave awaiting rulings on their misbehavior? WaPo (10/20/14) said it cost $775 million in salary last year alone. This has to be more than the veterans are getting.
Oh, and also don’t forget all those countries around the planet that have economies from almost to fully dependent upon the socialist welfare they receive from us, through federal tax dollars.
Even though Coburn is hardly a libidiot, perhaps – like many libidiots – he needs a lesson in basic math.
Those so-called “triple-dippers” he’s talking about not only earned both their military retirement pension and VA benefits through their service, they also qualified for Social Security legitimately. And when it comes to “saving Social Security”, there are hardly enough of them to matter.
There are nearly 64,000,000 people receiving Social Security benefits today. Those 60,000 folks he’s b!tching about form less than 0.1% of those receiving benefits from Social Security. They’re hardly the ones “breaking the system”.
In contrast, there are now 14,295,000 drawing Social Security “disability” benefits. Given how badly that program is abused, I’d guess there are far more than 60,000 scamming that part of the Social Security system. My guess as to the number of scammers in that crowd would be far closer to 60% or so than 60,000.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/quickfacts/stat_snapshot/
You want to “fix” Social Security, start with the Disability part. Not only is that part rife with fraud, it’s also going belly-up in the next 3 years or so.
Veterans are an easy target. Two reasons:
1. Most vote conservative, and
2. Vets won’t burn the city down around the Mayor’s ears when the money gets cut.
Vets won’t burn down the Mayor’s office, but that doesn’t mean they won’t take action. We need a new Bonus Army.
Fuck Tom Coburn and anyone who agrees with him. All three of those benefits are earned, and if anyone tries to tell you different you tell them you’ve got four words for them, “Fuck you, pay me.”
Nice Goodfellas reference!
$65B in Medicare/Medicaid Fraud, $15-40B in Worker Compensation Fraud, up to a $Trillion in government waste, over payments and bailouts and they want to take on 60,000 veterans whose lives are bent and broken.
Well, fuck them.
Amazing the following about Social Security Supplemental Income is never given any scrutiny: http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/EN-05-11011.pdf
Page 17: If you are an immigrant who is sponsored by a U.S. resident, we look at the income and resources of the following people in deciding whether you can get SSI and how much your payments will be: ….
You must report any changes in the income and
resources of all the above people until you become a U.S. citizen or you work for 10 years. (Work done by your spouse or parent may count towards the 10 years for SSI.) After that
time, you have to report only changes for yourself, your spouse and, if you are younger than age 18, your parents.
Are you shitting me? The veterans are breaking the bank? How about this; you cut your pay and benefits; stop furloughing GS-5 and GS-6 employees while you keep the SES and the other six figures employees working sine they are “mission essential” and reform the multitude of welfare programs. Then once you do all of that you can possibly..POSSIBLY begin a conversation on restructuring veteran’s benefits. I’m still waiting on a VA claim to process because the system in place sucks, won’t get a retirement check until I’m 60 (retired AF Reserve) and work full time as a civil servant. SO my good Senator, until you fix some of the bigger holes our money is pouring through you can GFY.
Dipshit
I’m doing the VA nut roll right now. Thank goodness I listened to the posters at TAH and got myself an advocate.
Yeah I have one myself, now if I can get a doc at the VA who doesn’t lie when he examines me and only puts results in my records for things he actually tests for I’ll be doing good.
Hey, Coburn….you assholes on capital hill stop making us veterans. Problem solved!
Really? A republican senator sniping at veterans for double and triple dipping? Does he not know everyone has to participate by being robbed by the government he “supposedly” controls – no one opts in – it is mandated. Conversely if you are forced to pay-in then you are entitled! Duh! What an old fool. It seems even the guys who are supposed to be the knowledgeable ones are just as stupid. I guess when you have a “special” retirement for being a senator, you really don’t know how it works for the rest of us.Finally this truly is the party of stupid! The republicans are on the verge of taking over the senate in a way not seen in modern history. They should by all measures take full control of all agendas and this old crony moron cannot even keep his mouth shut till Wednesday. How smart do you have to be to not think and keep your mouth shut!!! As bad as Romney saying, “Republicans should work on comprehensive immigration reform – to all you Steelers fans – this means amnesty, duh. Does he not do any research himself? What a way to make yourself irrelevant in a few words. I say, “If they are incumbents, vote for the other guy; just to remind them of their political mortality.
Really? A republican senator sniping at veterans for double and triple dipping? Does he not know everyone has to participate by being robbed by the government he “supposedly” controls – no one opts in – it is mandated. Conversely if you are forced to pay-in then you are entitled! Duh! What an old fool. It seems even the guys who are supposed to be the knowledgeable ones are just as stupid. I guess when you have a “special” retirement for being a senator, you really don’t know how it works for the rest of us. Finally this truly is the party of stupid! The republicans are on the verge of taking over the senate in a way not seen in modern history. They should, by all measures, take full control of all agendas and this old crony moron cannot even keep his mouth shut till Wednesday. How smart do you have to be to not think and keep your mouth shut!!! As bad as Romney saying, “Republicans should work on comprehensive immigration reform” – to all you Steelers fans – this means amnesty! What? Does he not do any research himself? What a way to make yourself irrelevant in a few words. I say, “If they are incumbents, vote for the other guy; just to remind them of their political mortality.”
Actually, The Party of Hell No! – you’re only “entitled” to Social Security until Congress says otherwise. Unlike an earned pension or retirement account, you don’t have any legal ownership interest in Social Security. See the SCOTUS decision in Fleming v. Nestor.
When you pay those Social Security taxes, that’s precisely what you’re doing – paying taxes. You don’t “own” a damn thing for doing so.
You have all said much better than I could where the cuts could and should come from. Our fucking government has declared war on us and they think they can win by continually cutting our benefits.
Good luck with that when you need to recruit and retain the next generation of warfighters who have to defend what is left of this country.
Think back on that you sniveling political cowards when the wolves are at the gate and you have to rely on unqualified untrained and unmotivated troops who are the product of your continued social engineering and lowered standards.
More proof that party affiliation is not as important as the person’s positions and character. At a party level, they will BOTH screw me and thee at the drop of a hat. None of ’em should be trusted further than a two year old can throw ’em. Peripodic purges should be law.
Wtf.
Let’s see stayed in long enough to EARN military retirement. Check
Got injured while on active duty. Check
Payed in Social Security (though not collecting due to age not old enough). Check
So can someone explain how if I earned/paid into these I shouldn’t be allow to collect them?
Okay, 60k out of over 10 MILLION on SS Disability. Comes out to 0.6%.
And of the remaining 99.4%, how many of them put their lives and livelihoods on the line for their country, or did anything worth a shit except whine and hold out their hands?
And how much of those disability payments are going to shysters like Bernath, et al? Watch some daytime television during the week and check out the commercials. Real eye opener.
Usually I support Senator Coburn, but on this one he totally misses the mark.
“Only 17 percent of those who received multiple forms of compensation had suffered a combat-related disability, according to the GAO.”
Anyone know what the heck that means? I really am not at all sure. It’s a line from the linked article.
Maybe the author doesn’t feel that those injured on AD, but not in combat, deserve compensation?
Yeah, now that you mention it, the word “Only” sticks out like a sore thumb. If it were merely a factual statement, that word wouldn’t belong.
Maybe that’s one of the talking points being developed? He/she wasn’t wounded in combat, so he/she doesn’t deserve disability benefits.
I think they’re saying the other 83% were rated as disabled due to conditions acquired or aggrivated during military service by causes not directly traceable to service in combat, 2/17 Air Cav. Examples would be hypertension, bad knees, bad back not due to combat injury, heart disease, ulcers, etc . . . .
I could be wrong.
Or having your spine and pelvis crushed in a shipboard drill. Or losing both legs in a UNREP accident. Or having your lungs, eyes, and ears blow out in a below decks explosion, barely surviving, then going through 34 skin grafts over 3 years and getting 50% disability. I worked in Navy hospitals for 30+ years and saw a lot of non-combat injuries that resulted in separation and/or retirement.
I’d like to see the number of federal law enforcement officers who retire at greater than 70% disability or higher. I guarantee you it’s way more than the percentage of military who do.
How about a check of LEO’s, firefighters, teachers and other union workers who are drawing the dreaded triple threat? I bet it’s more than 60,000.
My BIL is a retired E-6 in the Army Reserve with 80% disability, a retired city cop, a retired county cop, 100% disabled from both, draws SS disability but manages to own and operate a boat storage business in south Florida and is out on the water 300 days a year. All legal.
Yeah, let’s fuck those veterans over because SHUT UP.
I guess being broken, crippled, etc., only counts if Haji was going, “BANG!” at you.
I never met a Chief on any of the boats I served or worked on while I was in who didn’t look significantly older than they were. We have life expectancy 15-20 years less than the general population.
But I guess because we serves during “peacetime” we don’t count. Funny, one of those wise old Chiefs once told me, “Ain’t no such thing as peacetime underway on a submarine.”
Fuck that ass-roid. I am one of those “triple dippers”. I was also one of those triple payers.
I paid into Social Security Worked 20 years to get my pension and have a service connected disability that leaves me 100% unemployable.
Though the tax breaks help out I still make less than what I pulled in when I was able to work. I didn’t asked to trade my health for pensions.
60,000, really? Is that all? There are counties in this country who have more folks drawing unearned gubmint benefits than that, unless you consider participating in the gubmint breeding programs or the friends and family foreign aid schemes sending our $$ abroad as earned benefits.
Yeah. Very touchy subject. Being a triple dipper myself (not from the VA), I can assure you that the social security payment each month is hugely reduced because of the other two earned retirement payments. There is just about enough left for a nice meal out.
But, the simple fact that I don’t need it is quite irrelevant. It is an earned benefit. Get back to us, Senator, after you take a closer look at all those really busting the bank who did nothing to earn our perpetual care.
Oh, that’s right. You would be one of those who made all those parasites dependent upon the rest of us, and who now are unwilling to take care of themselves.
You can get social security without ever having paid in. Its called SSI. (different from SSDI). And its going broke.
You can get rewarded with SSI by being a drug user and unemployable. Also known as “crazy money” in the hood.
Like the VA about implement means testing– you won’t even get to enroll unless you’re broke and the insurance you or your employer pays for already doesn’t pay for service-related injuries (yes, you heard that right, you have to pay for SERVICE-RELATED injuries first… that’s coming).
1. He has never served in the military.
2. He’s another one that has been sucking on the public teat for to long …since 1994.
He’s also a millionaire whose investment strategies seem to have improved with public office. I always marvel how a critter’s net worth surges when in office. I guess it’s just coincidence.
I’ll take back what I paid into SocSec with compounded interest in exchange for what they are sending me as SSA Retirement. By the way Senator, you get a lifetime pension free medical dental eye care for life and god knows what other perks from your corrupt colleagues and cronies. Drop your retirement to 3k a month pay for your medical care confess and pay up back taxes on all your perks and then come back to talk to us.
Oh, God – not that “free medical and dental care for Congress” Urban Legend again. It’s bullsh!t.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/health-care-for-members-of-congress/
Ok,i will be the one to say it. Nothing will get solved with our out of control government spending until we spend less as a government. This profession of being a Conservative except when it comes ‘To my benefits’ has to stop.
If there actually are people drawing over $200,000 a year, it needs to be looked at. There is no government program in existence that could not be run more efficiently.
Every one of these program needs to be curtailed in some regard, every one of these programs has people that will scream about it.
Until somebody comes up with a comprehensive approach that cuts all spending and protects the most vulnerable nothing will happen that is productive.
Approaching groups one at a time is just nonsense. Every one of these groups supports cutting government spending…..as long as it not their group.
I disagree in part. If there are people drawing over $200,000 a year who haven’t earned or are not entitled to it then yes we can look at them. But when you have no money and you are trying to figure out how to cut costs the first thing you need to look at is where does the majority of your money go and what can be done to reduce that. In that case, it’s not the veterans.
There really is a fairly simple solution, Dave Hardin. Apply a no-sh!t means test to Social Security benefits – all assets and income, including services in-kind, SNAP, etc . . . . No exceptions.
Unfortunately, that would be politically unpopular. So I’m not holding my breath for that to happen any time soon.
I do, however, think there’s a good chance we’ll see it in my lifetime. We won’t have much other choice; it will either be that, or a huge increase in FICA taxes. I’m guessing one or both will happen about 20 years from now when the non-disability trust fund is about to go belly-up.
We had our chance to fix this in the early 1980s, when phased privatization of Social Security into individual portable retirement accounts was seriously discussed. It was dismissed out-of-hand by many of that era’s “soft-hearted” politicians as being too harsh and risky of a solution. I guess they thought they could decree some kind of guarantee regarding the future by legal fiat.
I’ll let you guess which political party had the most naysayers concerning that proposal.
Agreed, I doubt it will take 20 years. The rate of expansion is exponential. Regan made his deal to raise taxes on the provision agreed to with Tip Oneal that for every dollar taxes went up Congress would cut spending.
That didnt work out so well. Social programs can not enjoy this hands off approach of the past.
A means test would be very effective with ceiling limits on income. This idea that we pay into the system for years and then are somehow entitled to receive benefits for decades is just not tenable. I would have to look it up but my impression is we draw more out of the system than we put into it in a matter of a few years.
Writing a article that singles out Veteran benefits deserves all the vitriolic response it deserves.
As long as there is some voice from the darkness stating the fact we are paying for all of these benefits with money we do not have. Thats ok though, our grandchildren will pay the bill with interest.
Sad state of affairs.
I have a great idea, lets send checks to the grandchildren of anyone receiving benefits of any kind. Take the check for your grandchildren, its your jelly doughnut, you are eating it and they are paying for it. Enjoy.
Dave,nice Gunny Hartmann reference.
Actually, Dave Hardin – that hasn’t been true about Social Security (for males) in some time – and isn’t true for anyone retiring today and in the future. In 2010, males retiring already were taking it in the shorts – and women were barely breaking even. By 2030, it’s estimated that anyone retiring then will only realize $0.84 in value for each dollar paid in OASDI taxes over their working lifetime.
Medicare/other Federal healthcare assistance is still a “good deal” with respect to what you pay vice what you get – and it’s in financial trouble too. It’s now the 2nd largest Federal outlay, ahead of DoD and just behind Social Security. And ObamaCare’s full costs to the Federal government haven’t really even begun yet.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisconover/2012/12/03/aarp-lobbies-for-100000-plus-medicare-subsidy-for-seniors/
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1258
Thanx for the linx. I am not sure how you are are reading this data. The average person, male or female will outspend what they have put into the system even accounting for inflationary pressure in short order.
I am always critical of numbers used in percentage analysis especially if they are being released by an organization with obvious bias for the data.
http://www.gao.gov/browse/date/week
This issue does not go away, it builds every moment of every day. By the time I have finished typing this it will have grown by millions of dollars in deficit.
This spending and taxation policy is a Ponzi scheme. If any private organization tried to fund such and endeavor the Securities and Trade commission would issue an asset seizure.
The problem is so tenacious the fix has to permeate all levels of government.
Dave Hardin: yes, Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Has been since day one. But by Federal law, it’s a legally mandatory Ponzi scheme.
Regarding it being a good deal? Um, no. The above analysis by Forbes used an assumed 2% inflation/rate of return to adjust past contributions to present value and vice versa; that’s unrealistically low in both cases, and higher rates exacerbate the problem. Ditto other studies done by Urban Institute and others.
They all show that the average 2-earner couple will take in in the ear by about 2% in terms of the inflation-adjusted value of what they get from Social Security old age benefits vs. the value of their OASDI taxes paid (don’t forget the mandatory employer “contribution”, which doubles the amount paid on their behalf). As I recall, the situation gets even worse for high wage earners and unmarried males (women as a group still just about break even due to their longer average lifetime). They get screwed even worse.
Medicare remains a “good deal”, with people getting on average far more from Medicare than the present value of their Medicare taxes. But Medicare is in serious financial trouble, too. Plus, ObamaCare costs haven’t even really begun to kick in yet.
Bottom line: for at least the last couple of years, the average guy/gal retiring today has been in the “enviable” position of realistically expecting to get less value back in Social Security old age benefits than their OASDI taxes would have been worth had those taxes been invested. That situation will get worse slowly until the OASDI IOU-based “trust fund” is exhausted in the 2030s – at which point it will get much worse as the system by law transitions immediately to true PAYGO and benefits drop by about 20-25%.
Well said, Dave. Contrary to the blog headline, nowhere in the article does Coburn say veterans are breaking the system. Coburn asked for a study, it confirmed many vets triple-dip (a practice only allowed only since 2002), and suggested that it should be looked into. I don’t find that outrageous. Coburn’s one of the few Congressman serious about controlling the growth of Federal spending and I think it’s a GOOD thing that nobody’s pet program is exempt from scrutiny. Now … do I think there are other, far bigger, far more egregious spending problems out there? ABSOLUTELY!!
He’s a hypocrite that got rich sucking off the public teat.
Let him reign in his brother and sister Senators and Congressmen first.
Glass houses Stones. etc, etc.
Actually, Calypso Facto – so-called “triple-dipping” (VA bennies + mil retired pay + Social Security) was indeed allowed prior to 2004 (not 2002). It just didn’t benefit the individual nearly as much as today’s Concurrent Receipt.
Prior to 2004, a dollar-for-dollar offset in taxable military retired pay was required to accept non-taxable VA payments. That still led to a net benefit for the individual (reduction in the taxman’s “cut”), but often not a very large one.
That ended with the beginning of concurrent receipt in 2004 – but only for some. Even though it’s been liberalized since its beginning in 2004, concurrent receipt is only authorized for those having a VA disability rating of 50+%. VA rating of 40% or less? Retired pay is still offset dollar-for-dollar by the amount received in VA benefits.
http://militarypay.defense.gov/retirement/concurrent_dod_va.html
One day maybe someone will be able to give me a rationale for that other than “full concurrent receipt would cost too much”. Morally, I can’t see why someone rated as 50% disabled should be treated differently than someone rated at 49% (yes, I know a VA rating of 49% doesn’t really exist). But today, they are – and not just regarding concurrent receipt.
‘ONLY 17%’?
If you get injured on the job in the civilian work world, you get (or should get) compensation for. And, yes, that compensation may just come from SSDI, not the retirement fund.
So how does that differ from ex-military suffering service-related injuries while on active duty, combat or not?
It does not. Period.
Coburn needs to get his head removed from his own butt and spend some time in the real world. If anyone’s pay, work benefits, and retirement benefits need to be cut, it is Coburn. And watch him squawk if anyone suggests that.
You are so right Ex-PH2. I am sure Coburn would immediately come out with a long, long laundry list of all the great things he does as a “servant of the people” to justify his pay and benefits. The same song and dance all of those knobs come up to justify their frequent pay raises.
Crotchrotten MF’er.
Turd.
Sad.
If an individual medically retires from service with less the number of years to qualify for normal retirement, isn’t it also likely that he/she would qualify for some type of veterans disability?
Yes. However, concurrent receipt requires 20+ years active service or you’re SOL in that respect – even if rated 100% for disability or UI. See the link about concurrent receipt I posted above.
I know someone in that situation. They’ve been getting the short end of that particular stick for a decade.
This feels like a harbinger to the day when the government decides to nix the Post 9/11 GI Bill from transferring to our (now) little children for college when they are older. Most of us see it coming as our kids get closer to college age, as we have very little faith that the government will hold its end of the bargain longterm.
Went to the VA today to finish (hopefully) my compensation claim increase. The doc was surprised I do not use the VA more. I told her that even though I rated at 70% when I was medically retired a few years back there are other vets who need the VA services more than I do. I actually feel guilty having to go to the VA when my company provdies me with great medical benefits.
But as my wife says I earned the benefits and to have some Pol hack say I and my brothers and sisters in arms are parasites on the system who are breaking the bank for other retirees pisses me off. How about we cut from the gutless folks who did not serve and draw benefits for do shite all.
The parasites are the people who have been on welfare since 1965, when that program was started up along with Medicare by Lyndon Johnson.
That, and ripping off the Social Security trust fund to pay for other things, has put us in – what? $16 trillion in debt?
Is anyone besides me aware that the Swiss government is now required to hold 20% of its cash value in gold in Swiss bank vaults? This is new, you know. And since Germany’s gold deposits are held by the US, what happens if Germany wants its gold bricks back?
Think about that for a second.
I swear, this smells more and more like the dark before the storm in October 1929. Seriously, 2009? It can get worse.
This arrogant jerk several years ago landed his private plane on an inactive runway, endangering some maintenance workers. A regular citizen would probably have had their license pulled.
OOOPS. Should have looked it up first. The other OK senator landed on an inactive runway. He is still an asshole
hahahahaha
Pretty sure that wasn’t him. Pretty sure that was Inhofe.
I have Mixed feelings on this one. I don’t think you should be able to draw two kinds of pensions and two kinds of disability. My understanding is that social security has always been means tested to a point. So if you get a pension that’s over that amount no matter where it comes from I don’t think you should automatically get more. Same with disability. But if you get further disabled as a civilian I think SS should kick in regardless. If you earn another pension from a later federal job they shouldn’t count against each other either unless your military time is included as part of your earned pension at that later job.
I do have a small dog in this hunt. I just retired from the Guard after 25 years with 10 of active federal time and 30% disability which may go up with another claim that I’m having problems with.
For the last 13 years there has been a large increase in some of our benefits and most of it was very much earned and needed. But some seemed to go through without much thought.
I believe it is time to rethink some of the cold war Era retirement package but if changes are made, anyone already in the service should be grandfathered unless they explicitly opt for a new program.
As soon as they take drug addiction, alcoholism, and other such nonsense off as “disabling” for the purposes of Social Security Disability… or go after the rampant fraud in Social Security Disability claims… or welfare and food stamp fraud… or any of the plethora of other hand outs for people who have done not even a fraction of what this countries veterans have done…
Don’t forget this, you earned your retirement the same as Federal Employees, and no one bitches about them double dipping or even triple dipping. In fact, I am eligible to apply for Federal Disability Retirement from my Federal job, and as a requirement for that I have to apply for Social Security Disability first.
Thing is, I paid into Social Security and am “entitled” to it because of that. I have very legitimate disabilities, all service connected at 90% right now… and all of which would allow me to go “on the dole”.
You want to talk about abuse? There it is right there, people doing it who otherwise could work in some capacity. The system is built for corruption and abuse.
I’m all for getting.rid of the fraud waste and abuse in social security. I’m also all in favor of rolling back benefits on the things they’ve been allowing it to be collected for.
Mike: Social Security is not and never has been means tested. Rather, it as set up on a sliding scale, with lower-workers getting proportionally more and higher income workers (up to the Social Security wage base) getting proportionally less of their average income replaced when they retire. That’s why FICA deductions only apply to earned income up to the Social Security wage base – there is a maximum possible benefit regardless of how much you earn.
There is a reduction for those who retire “early” (age 62) but keep working after they start receiving Social Security – but only until they reach full retirement age. After full retirement, you get 100% of your Social Security benefit – regardless of how much you earn. And only earned income (wages) counts; if you have have a six-figure income from investments or pensions between age 62 and full retirement age, you’ll still get 100% of your Social Security.
If Social Security were actually means tested, if someone made above a certain amount from any other sources (pensions, investments, etc . . . ) or had a net worth higher than a given amount, your benefits would be phased out or discontinued. That only happens between 62 and full retirement age for people who continue working and receive Social Security. And then, it’s a $1 reduction for each $2 over the limit. Earn less than the limit, and you keep it all.
To be blunt, Social Security is just another income transfer program – from working Americans to those who aren’t working, generally due to age or disability. A sane system would means test it like other government welfare programs are at least theoretically means tested. But we don’t.
My social security was most certainly reduced based upon other pensions. And we aren’t talking by an insignificant amount. Pretty much reduced it to hardly being worth filing for it. Just saying, if that isn’t “means tested,” what should it be called?
(And I am still ticked off about the entire Medicare thing. Nothing about that mess makes a bit of sense, except as a bureaucrat hiring scheme.)
Social security disability is not only means tested the Social Security Administration asserts its disability definition is more stringent (not easy to meet the eligibility threshold) than the military and VA disability definition.
Also military veteran is not necessarily a retired (longevity or medical) military veteran.
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v71n2/v71n2p1.html
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v66n2/v66n2p1.html
Social Security disability benefits are indeed means tested. Social Security old age benefits are not. The context and what I said above makes it clear I was talking about old age benefits, not disability.
In theory, Social Security disability does have more stringent requirements than most others – e.g., by Federal law, the criteria is that you must be unable to do “any useful work” (or words to that effect). In practice, that’s so widely ignored by Social Security ALJs that claiming they apply the legal standard during disability adjudication hearings is a laughably sick joke.
From the SSA website:
” Social Security disability benefits are not means tested…”
So are they or aren’t they? SSA seems to think they aren’t.
Not getting Social Security yet, but I double dip between E-7 ret pay and disablity (80%). can do much more that push paper at my job due to breaking myself in the last few years.
I also dont have a VA hospital here, I have to use the base hospital (at Osan). That being said, I only go when needed, or when I can’t handle the pain anymore.
Congress is an ideal place to start cuts, along with welfare rolls. When the money dries up, the 99% will start to look for jobs.
As a double dipper, I believe Coburn should stick a 10″ black dildo up his bottom. Then do what guys like him do…
I’m pretty sure dipshit Coburn gets more than $200k in pay and benefits. Ass weasel