Army Magazine: Candor; Can the Army Handle the Truth?
Our buddy, Rick Maze, called a few months ago and asked if I wanted to contribute to his piece about whether the Army can listen to the soldiers, you know, the soldiers who faced the enemy down in the latest wars and had to actually pull the triggers. Rick just moved to Army Magazine (the Association of the US ARMY publication) to become their Editor-in-Chief, from his many years at the Military Times, so I answered in the affirmative. Here is his piece in the April edition.
Here’s my portion of the interview;
I don’t think that the Army’s inability to listen to the troops is a new phenomenon. It’s always been like that. If you’re not a War College graduate, everything you say will fall on deaf ears. Of course, it’s like that in every professional field. After the Gulf War, there were several sessions of brain storming over friendly fire with which I participated and usually, my input was dismissed quickly by staff officers who didn’t happen to be anywhere near the action and were forehead defilade in their M577 command tracks.
Their “lessons learned” were only valid if they were in the official accounts of combat. The same unit that awarded a Sergeant Major a BSM w/V for taking out an Iraqi tank with his pistol and a Sergeant First Class a Purple Heart for getting hit in the eye with an RPG fin as it flew over his head was depending on reports and not on the people who were on the ground.
I can only imagine the bullshit that you younger guys have to plow through to teach the Army what you learned by doing, not reading. But, at least you can see that eventually you’ll get your revenge like I did in this article.
Category: Big Army
I should have added that it’s nice to be recognized by anyone that we do more than Stolen Valor here.
Yeah, I found that the staff weinie “shot callers” would rather believe a Powerpoint brief and pages of BS metrics rather than give any weight to “anecdotes” from the Fleet.
IFIWANTEDYOUROPINIONIWOULDHAVEGIVENITTOYOUGETBACKINTORANKS!!!!!!
We removed “candor” from the Army Values years ago for a REASON, SFC Lilyea! Stop screwing with success, dude. Disagreement is not “candor,” it is “disloyalty.”
Sarcasm aside, that attitude could explain why we have not won a war in our lifetime. At some point, it stops being an aberration, and starts to be a trend.
Fix that attitude, and return our senior NCOs to the position occupied by the “old school” in the 1980s when I enlisted (guys who strutted and mentored and trained like Sam Elliot/Basil Plumley in “We Were Soldiers”), and we will be fine. Today, our SNCOs must take college courses, and are used more like second-rate field grades than like first-rate sergeants. Even with the drawdown, we will have enough second-rate field grades without needing to add NCOs to that mix.
Best,
Pat
Sometimes they do listen. We were taking a lot of casualties because of sniper fire. A PL and PSG who had just had a Soldier sniped out of the hatch of his Stryker came up with a solution. They welded some rebar onto the top of their Strykers and draped cammo nets over it. Soon our whole Brigade did it and we saw a dramitic decress in sniper casualties. Because of one O2 and E7 the Military now makes kits to fit over all our vehicles.
Or, and here’s a thought for the officer side of the house: Add flexibility to the officers who want to move around. When I commissioned it was in AMEDD; I asked if it was possible to go to the intel course and reclass and no one seems to even consider it as a possibility. Here’s my question: What difference does it make if I meet the military education requirements? Would a medical type be a worse as an intel guy than a guy who majored in commercial communication, or business administration? I’d wager that it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference. I want to do something else for the Army, but they aren’t interested. I’d rather have someone who wants to be where they are doing something they care about than these idiots that are just coasting. Red tape; This is how we’re going to RIF. That said, the officers aren’t what’s going to make or break the Army. It’s the exodus of salty, experienced NCO’s. Being an officer isn’t hard at all as long as you have them watching your back, and fixing the Army wouldn’t be hard either if we didn’t have the Pentagon (full of guess who: Officers) forcing PC, morale destroying crap onto the joes. I enjoy being an officer; I enjoy working with the enlisted, and making sure they have what they need to accomplish their mission. They are why we as leaders officer and NCO alike are here; To support them while they accomplish the mission. Anyway; TL;DR. I’m going to try my hardest to get to the War College and get my voice in the mix. It’s a few years off, but the way to keep this from becoming a rehash of what you all remember from the 70’s we need people who are willing to endure the times that are coming.
This is often a frusteration noticed by Judge Advocates–particularly those who served in other capacities prior to becoming lawyers. In certain billets, JAs are in a position where they are interwined in the command structure but also somewhat apart. As a result, some JAs have a unique perpsective to notice when the command is married to doctrine vice reality on the ground. For me, it was a source of frustration as I always give great deferrence to mid-to-senior NCOs (and mid-to-senior officers) with practical experience. From my experience, somewhere along the path the senior leaders focus so much on doctrine that the enemy adapts much quicker while we take longer to adapt to the enemy’s adaption.
For what it’s worth, it happens amongst field-grade and general-officer ranks, as well.
I was the XO of a great battalion, and we received a new commander. He wasn’t horrible, but he was managing to break some pretty significant things the unit was proud of…so, as his 2IC and (I assumed, based on my relationship with the previous commander) confidante, I closed the door to his office to have a quiet chat about some things I had noticed and how the battalion was responding to them.
His reply included a full-red face, spittle flying from his lips, and a number of phrases that I hesitate to share even amongst this rough-edged crowd.
Luckily, I was within a few years of retirement and knew he couldn’t touch me.
I worked for a 1-star at a 4-star G-staff, as well, and watched him have much the same problem with the 2-star DCS he worked for.
Notwithstading the disctionary’s definition of candor, I regard the word as synonymous with frankness and forthrightness–calling a spade a spade. But what the article describes is dishonesty and mistrust, exercised by ‘pentagonals’ and other officers who study their bosses’ rectums from the inside looking out. The are innumerable innovations that were borne of the ingenuity and need of those whose butts are on the line. This is fact, not conjecture or hopefulness. So, why not go to the same people to obtain answers, information, and informed opinion when other matters arise? I guess it’s better to form a workgroup and ensure that the group has the correct EEOC-approved balance and is always facilitated by someone who is thinking “This is bullshit!” while saying and pretending otherwise to the class.
Hey. HEY.
I took a tank out with a pistol. True story. I also fly C130s.
In my experience even in the private sector, it is very difficult to get the Senior Leadership the straight scoop when they are surrounded by sycophants that only tell them what they want to hear.
Seems to me if Leaders are serious about changing things for the better, instead of change for the sake of change, they need to climb down off the throne and listen to their JO’s, NCO’s.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around how somebody took out a tank with a pistol.
I’m on the road. I’ll tell you when I get home.
He used a pistol that acme labs created.
A Finnish officer made a Soviet tank retreat with a pistol, during the Winter War. Check out “A Frozen Hell”, by William Trotter.
Didn’t the Duffleblog have an article about every GO being assigned a E4 as a personal “Bullshit Filter” ?
Of course working here in the DC area, I’m doing my best to undermine the stupidity BEFORE it’s disseminated..
When I was a platoon leader, one of my favorite soldiers was the one who was stopped lossed during that deployment. He didn’t give a damn about playing the game and you couldn’t get anything past him. One of my first interactions with him was the CO asking his opinion on something during his first week in command. His said, “Sir, this is bullshit stupid, and let me explain why.” The CO politely listened and chuckled at his honesty/lack of voice filter.
I’m like that (which is probably a big reason I didn’t make MSG) and I also had one of my Squad Leaders like that. I always knew my Platoon would be in good hands whenever I couldn’t make a PSG meeting for whatever reason.
I was a squad leader like that, working for a PSG like yourself. 🙂
We had a major put himself for a Silver Star and a Purple Heart when our COP got attacked. He was brigade staff I think S-1 and kept trying to come down range with us for a few days. Well he went back to the Garrison and claimed his bs stories sign some of our names for his SS and PH. BTW he jumped off the hesco ran into a make shift bunker laid down and called his wife. His story is he got knocked off by a RPG. It got back to our PS and PL who took it up the chain. POS never got a SS or PH but did get a CAB and BSM for service and last I heard he made Lt. Col and is up for Col. He’s supposedly still bitching about how he never got his SS. My old PS saw him recently.
“It is a crock of shit and it stinks.” And what is it when it gets to the upper echelons?
Works both ways. We’re so afraid for our own careers at times, we’re afraid to throw the bullshit flag, even when it might save some gear, time, and even lives, because we don’t want to “offend” the folks upstairs.
Don’t get me wrong, sometimes it’s necessary to play politics and defer to one’s seniors, but when their decisions are hindering the mission, time to put away nicey-nice and tell it like it is.
NHSparky you are right. It is a fine line game of chess to know when to “go along to get along” because you’re talking to a non-deployed, know it all or when to throw said, bull shit flag. I found to only throw it at someone who had been there and done that. They already know what you are talking about and if your point is salient, they will listen. Doesn’t mean that when they take it up the line it won’t run into their non-deployed, know it all Commander. But the good and professional senior NCOs I had the privilege and honor of serving under(not the worthless, marking time lifers) would take what you said to heart and give it true, due consideration. Might change things, might not but at least the good ones listened to you and even said thanks sometimes.
I would listen to what my subordinants had to say and took their advice under consideration as long as it was given at the right time and place. They all knew that when bullets were flying was not the right time or place unless they saw something very important that the LT and myself had not seen. They also knew what we thought was very important.
All I remember was when we, the troops, would say we could have or should have done thus and so, we would get the steely eyed glare and usual comment that became a mantra for any of our input. I learned it well and thereafter kept most of my comments to myself. It went like this. “Bullshit….a bitching troop is a happy troop!”
The Army does do candor once in a while. Did not Depmsey say that you can tuck it to the troops and they would take the pay cut but just complain.
Of course it is usually one way Candor
Two cents more here… My experience was that often when it came to open-door policy, “bitch” sessions or brainstorming to improve the unit there were certain things that were “off the table” from the get go.
There simply was no questioning of dumb ass shit, such as white T-shirts in the field, wearing T-shirts and shorts OUTSIDE of sweats or automatic OTH packages for DUIs because the were sacred cows from higher up.
OK, the sergeant major story (it made Tom Clancy’s “Into the Storm”, too) the sergeant major and his driver were following us through the carnage of the “Battle of 73 Easting” after 0200 Army time. They drove past a T-55 that didn’t seem damaged and the SGM made the driver stop. He jumped out of the HMMV climbed the side of the tank, drew his M9 and emptied the mag into the open turret. Then, without checking for casualties, he climbed back into his truck and his driver put him in for a BSM w/V.
The same night, one of my fellow platoon sergeants had his head outside of the turret (during a 360 degree tank battle during which we had lost three Bradleys to M1 fire). An MRE box fell on his head from his pile of MREs he’d stacked up behind the BC hatch. He told his gunner that an RPG had gone right by his head and the fin had hit him in the eye. Physically, of course, that’s impossible, but he got a Purple Heart for it.
There was a lot of confusion that night and I have about a thousand more stories, many of which made an appearance in “Into the Storm” since Clancy used our unit history to write the book.
Had our Battalion commanfer and Sgt Major write each other up for awards.
The BC used the Bn center to call in air on an orchard that supposedly had Iraqis retreating through it ( silver star) and the Sgt Major shot up an abandoned BMP with a MK19 mounted on one of the firing battery’s 5 tons ( BS)
I see. We had a Squad Leader in my Company that was smoking in his Stryker when it hit a small IED. He burnt himself with his ciggarete and got a PH for it.
“Permission to be candid, sir?”
“If it’s something I really want to hear, certainly; otherwise, no.”
“I see, sir. Thank you, sir. Oh, one other thing, sir: Would you like me to close your door as I leave?”
IMO, there is very little candor wanted by big Army. Otherwise the reflective belt would have been gone two seconds after it was required everywhere in-country.
But then the doctor doing the spine-ectomy at the SGM academy would be out of business as would the lobotomist at the Pentagon and Guard Bureau.
One of my civilian instructors at Quantico liked to say we got our brain, spine, and balls removed when we made Major then had them politely returned to us upon retirement so we could write books and articles about what we would have liked to have done if in we were in charge.
Nice. I would like to think we didn’t have that happen. I know I tried to voice my opinion wherever possible. Been told to keep quiet too many times I’ve lost count.
Talk about a concise description of the origin of Gates’ book….
Now the job I did the last 10 years in the Nasty Guard had me deploy twice….doing some ummm…lets say “technical kind of work”. It was fun in both Bosnia and Iraq, but it required a lot of skill.
After we came home and we got a new Battalion Commander…who’d never been to war…we had to listen to his bullshit.
We did some rather good training at”summer camp” and the B.C. walked around telling about this computer software crap that was going to save the world. (it never got put to use). After I stood and listened to the windbag. I said”yes sir, that might be helpful, but the Army is still going to need guys like us to go out and do shit.”
The assclown Sergeant Major was standing there and I thought he was going to shit himself. Later I got called to his office. He tried to explain to me that I should have not said anything. I just looked at the assclown and said “well, I was just trying to pass on some knowledge.”