Magpul: We Weren’t Kidding
Jonn’s pretty busy today, so I’m posting this one on his behalf.
As Jonn wrote here some months ago, last year both Beretta and Magpul publicly went on record as opposing proposed changes to firearms laws in their respective states (the People’s Republic of Maryland and Colorado, respectively). Both firms were essentially ignored by those states, which each enacted truly ignorant and in practice utterly meaningless and counterproductive substantially tighter gun control laws.
Well, regarding Magpul the other shoe has now dropped. Magpul announced yesterday that it will indeed move its production/distribution/shipping operations and corporate headquarters outside of Colorado. Production/distribution/shipping will move to Cheyenne, WY; the corporate headquarters, to a yet-to-be-determined location in Texas.
Way to go, Colorado. Looks like when Magpul told you you were about to GFY, you were too stupid to listen. Tell those jobs – and the taxes they generated – goodbye.
Your turn, Beretta.
Category: Guns
@43–please, for the love of Christ, don’t say New Hampshire. We have enough of the FSP idiots here already.
96B2S: actually, alcohol does have proven medicinal uses. It was commonly prescribed by cardiologists to their patients for that reason (the classic 1 brandy daily) before the development of other drugs to treat cardiac issues. Further, multiple studies conducted over the last 40 years show that in moderation (1-2 standard drinks daily) alcohol has numerous medical benefits. Moderate drinkers live on average significantly longer than those who do not partake.
Stoned Gunman: yes, they are all lumped together. That’s by design. They’re all on the Federal schedule of illegal drugs. Ergo, possession and use of any of them is rather problematic.
The fact that you’re engaging in an ad hominem attack because someone called you on that point shows your bias. It also highlights the fact that you’re willing to ignore Federal law if it pleases you to do so.
If you want to argue in favor allowing cannabis to be prescribed by doctors for the treatment of specified medical conditions and purchased as a prescription drug, I’d be OK with that. I know full well that cannabis has numerous documented medical uses – glaucoma treatment and reduction of nausea/wasting associated with chemo being two – and that Federal law currently prohibits its use.
That’s not what you’re advocating here. What you’re advocating is unrestricted and uncontrolled use of cannabis for recreational purposes. Yeah, I’ve got a bit of a problem with that.
And regarding your “that’s all opinion” critique of 2/17 Air Cav’s comment above: that’s true. Considering 2/17 Air Cav’s profession and the length of time he’s been practicing same, that would be a damn well educated opinion regarding the legal and societal effects of all illegal drugs – including cannabis.
The same (all opinion) is also true of all of your comments above, of course. Do you routinely engage in hypocrisy, or are you making a special effort here?
@ #50: Yet you assume that just because the conclusions some of us draw differ from yours that we are NOT well educated on the topic? That is just ridiculous. But you already know that.
Justify doing what you want by whatever means works for you, but please dispense with the baseless assumptions and projection of your actions upon others. OK?
And while you are at it, quit trying to sell us on the idea that encouraging persons already dealing with stress that adding criminal behavior to the list of stressors is good for them. That is also ridiculous.
I do when his statement contains lies, at that point I have to assume he is uneducated.
@51
“We have enough of the FSP idiots here.”
Sounds like you are pro-government and pro-regulation. Is there something wrong with liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
Anyone who argues against marijuana’s medicinal qualities is simply ignorant or very stubborn. Recreational legalization is a different issue. Do I personally believe it should be legal for all adults? Yes I do. Everything negative you hear about marijuana comes from the federal government. The fact the feds label marijuana a Class 1 drug and at the same time still supply patients with 300 marijuana cigarettes a month is a complete joke. By the federal government supplying a number of patients with marijuana cigarettes every month they are admitting it has medicinal qualities.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/4-americans-get-medical-pot-from-the-feds/
Hey Stoned Gunman. My reading resources do not include High Times and, quite frankly, the drug subculture that you proudly belong to doesn’t interest me either. And while I’m at it, your silly conclusions about me are just dandy. I learned long ago not to argue with drunks and dopers.
You might just try the internet? and I based my conclusions on you solely upon your complete lack of any credible knowledge concerning cannabis. I learned long ago not to argue with trolls so I guess we are both done here?
@48: Read the posts after yours; they still are arguing the medicinal argument, even though no one has said that it isn’t valid for medicinal purposes. They are completely ignoring the questions posed and want to feign outrage about something no one is debating. They are still going after the big rhetoric statement without working the details.
As with Obamacare; it’s all about the flash, not the details.
Proving once again that logical thinking escapes stoners. (Something many of us learned decades ago.)
And back to the moral grandstanding and name calling, at least your predictable.
Here, stoner. You need these. ‘e
@57 No one here is arguing the medicinal use and sometimes value of marijuana. You are conveniently passing by those comments. You seem upset though that you cannot turn all opinions here to your way of thinking. As I wrote before there is more and better help for PTSD than shoving a joint at someone. I would not want to be the one playing therapist with another person’s life only to have the marijuana just add to their problems in the long run. Those are problems not including its possible ultimate failure. That being the person does not receive YOUR desired effect and being further discouraged, takes their life anyway, without having had the benefit of professional help first. That is a heavy weight to bear on your conscience. One I would not want. As far as your statement that all who disagree are trolls, you are the one who is new to this board. At least in my history of reading here. If you mean trolls as in what you believe are uneducated, uninformed people, uh, you maybe should spend more time reading this blog. There are people here smarter than you and me put together. That is also being conservative, in my opinion, of the knowledge and education I know to be here. So, live as you choose. Use marijuana as a recreation or however you choose to do so. Just be careful when offering marijuana as a panacea for all things PTSD.
And while I am done with the Stonehead, that certainly doesn’t mean that I must be done talking about him. He is a typical troll, single shooting a particular issue which is near and dear to his drug-stupified self: the legalization of dope. Well, he’s got it, at least in Colorado, and his sorry attempt to enlist support here is misplaced. You are correct, OT, that no one here is opposing medically prescribed use of marijuana. But that’s not enough for the stoned troll. That’s not his issue. It’s merely a strawman argument for his real point of wanting to be legally permitted to use dope when and where he wants. So, if I haven’t said it before, I will now: screw him.
OH, yoohoo, Stoned Gunman – I spent 4+ years in Chicago working for people who allowed their employees to get stoned during working hours. My job was to produce the finished product in corporate slide shows. Doesn’t sound like much of a big deal, does it?
No, it isn’t, unless the artwork you get doesn’t show up until 15 minutse before quitting time, which ALWAYS happened every fracking day, ALWAYS had me staying until as late as 2AM after I’d been there all day starting at 7AM, and ALWAYS meant I’d work somewhere between 80 and 100 hours per week, because those slobs who pretended they were graphic artists were so fracking stoned that all of their work had to be done over or repaired before it was camera ready.
And THAT part of the job fell to em. Did I have any help? No, because my employers were so cheap, they figured they could take advantage of me, because they thought I was just that stupid. I was so fried from the hours I put in that it took me 3 months to stop passing out at 6 PM from exhaustion.
So while you’re rattling on and on about the benefits of pot and how great it is to be stoned, I will refute your asinine argument that all it does is lead to sloppiness and carelessness and costs money. That company went out of business a LONG time ago.
Oh, yeah, pot is just wonderful shit, isn’t it? You can take all the pot you want and shove it up your rectal orifice sideways. And if you show up at my house with that shit in your possession, I’ll set the dogs on you, you fucking asshole.
Shithole.
Not once did I make an argument for recreational cannabis what I did take offense to is the name calling and lack of understanding concerning cannabis and it’s studied ability to treat PTSD and the fact that soldiers lives could be saved by cannabis. I never once said it was a cure all or magic bullet I just think people have a negative opinion and bypass it a credible treatment based off of misinformation and a lack of education.
@64 Not really sure what you crying about your crappy job has to do with this discussion aside from your obvious disdain for smokers, do you need a hug nancy?
@65 I am not the smartest guy in the world. Certainly not the smartest on this board. However, you have hammered the same old stake in the ground to the point you have broken it off. You will not find the “understanding” you are seeking here. Even if I agreed with you, which I don’t, marijuana is still an illegal substance in my state and I would not partake. If it were legal, I would not partake because I have seen its effects and the bad in its use far outweighs any benefits. I am not talking about the prescribed medicinal uses either. Most everyone here will agree that you will not turn their opinions in your direction. Even for the treatment of PTSD. I have seen more than one person who’s use of marijuana became a gateway to worse drugs. You can poo-poo that if you want but it is a fact. If you want pot to be legal, then petition and vote for it. But don’t use PTSD as your argument. I am tired of hearing that. I have also known WAY TOO MANY vets with PTSD who found help and relief without using an illegal substance. I don’t know how old you are but I think I am older. That does not make my voice any louder or more valuable. It simply means I have seen more life than you I think. As far as PTSD and its best treatment though, you are dead, dead wrong. If it works for you great but don’t use your one personal experience to try and start a campaign for legalized pot. At least not on this blog. Also I share in @64 Ex-PH2’s opinion that marijuana, especially on the job, is bad at its best and in my field of work, out and out dangerous. Yes, I have seen people injured and injure others being on the job high. Your disrespect of others has become obnoxious. Therefore, after trying to be reasonable and logical, I will digress to name calling and tell you you are simply a pot head. Nothing… Read more »
Well “sparks” you have proven yourself to be a fucking moron. I don’t smoke marijuana or “pot” as you call it but once every couple months at the most.
Christ I can’t wait until these hardcore bible beating conservatives from the baby boomer generation die out.
Yes, Sparks is a fucking moron. I am a fucking moron. Come to think of it, excepting two commenters in this thread, we are all fucking morons. We have cards, the cards bear our pictures, our DOBs (most BC), height, and weight, and are stamped “OFFICIAL FUCKING MORON.” Hey, when you’re right, you’re right.
BLOG NAME CHANGE:
This ain’t Hell … But you can smoke it from here!
Let’s get back on point.
And for all the pot heads … Stay off the roads!
@ 96
You say: Christ I can’t wait until these hardcore bible beating conservatives from the baby boomer generation die out.
This 32 Year Retired Vet Babybommer says: FUCK YOU!
@69 Thank you and well said. I am proud to be a member of this “Official Fucking Moron Club” and look forward to getting my card new in the mail!
@68, Yea I along with the other baby boomers will die out. If you and your pot smokin’ buddy are what is in store for this country after we are gone, then God help America and I am glad I will not be around to see how you ass wipes run things. By the way, like it or not, unless you have a prescription or live in Colorado, then you, my every couple of months smoker, are part of the drug problem in America! So you too can Go Fuck Yourself! If disagreeing with the likes of you makes me a moron then I will gladly buy the tee shirt.
OH, gee whiz, 96B2S, my name isn’t NANCY, you jackass. And I have a right to detest stoners, the same as I have a right to detest drunks.
Oh, my last job before I retired? My supervisor was a drunk AND a stoner. She got drunk or stoned on her lunch hour, sometimes both. Then she’d sit in her office with her door shut and locked until her high wore off. That’s REALLY how adults behave, isn’t it? Getting crocked and completely wiped out is more important than doing your job. GREAT!
I didn’t mention that one of the nastier reasons I despise people who smoke dope, did I? No, I didn’t. That job I had with the stoned graphics shitheads? The guy who owned the company decided, when his wife was gone for three weeks to spend time with her mother who had had major surgery, that he would offer pot to those of us who weren’t stoners to sell on the streets instead of our paychecks. But we refused it, because we didn’t want to end up in jail and because we all had bills to pay.
He also took $5000 out of the company’s account to buy his wife a fur coat, which has serious tax consequences. That’s why that company is no longer in business, fuckstick.
And I don’t give a flying fart in space how much you want to protest about the perceived benefits of smoking dope. The only things I have seen are people staggering around after lunch, and stuffing themselves behind locked doors.
And just so you GET how I feel about it, people who smoke dope are just as intoxicated as people who drink to excess. They have accidents that are just as bad as drunk drivers. They frequently ask their friends to go joyriding with them and smack into trees and phone poles. It’s in the paper a lot around here, on a regular basis.
You can defend your position all you like, but you’re still intoxicated, period. There is no difference between driving drunk and driving stoned, asshole.
“Christ I can’t wait until these hardcore bible beating conservatives from the baby boomer generation die out.”
Still laughing over that one. Proving a deficient knowledge of history among the other things lacking. Silly child.
Nothing quite as pitiful as the willfully ignorant, until they act like spoiled, self-absorbed brats. It is at that point that they become annoying, and prove themselves to be worthy of the attention it takes to swat a mosquito.
I thought this could be a logical discussion about cannabis for veterans on a site that I had a lot of respect for that is full of vets of all ages and branches but I guess I was just being optimistic about that. I never resorted to name calling or disrespecting my brothers but alas I was not afforded the same respect. Forgive me if I don’t take your life experience as a reason to deny vets access to medical cannabis, I chose to believe the numerous studies that run contrary to your sage advice. Despite what many of you seem to think I am not seeking yours or anyone’s else’s approval for my life decisions nor do I presume to judge others on theirs but it’s obvious that many of you don’t think the same way. I merely wished to engage in a conversation but since it’s obvious that isn’t going to occur I will go back to trying to educate vets about options that don’t include the litany of meds the VA thinks is best.
Stoned Gunman: actually, amigo . . . you weren’t trying to engage in a conversation. Rather, whether you realize it or not, you were preaching. There’s a big difference between the two.
If you want to engage in a conversation, simply leave behind the ad hominem attacks, the obvious bias, the loaded language, the overblown sense of outrage that not everyone shares your opinion, and your own stereotypes. Do that, and you’ll likely find many here willing to discuss any subject you care to discuss.
@55–you seem to confuse LIMITED government/regulation with PRO government/regulation. GCE, -10 points.
There is a point where it is necessary, yes, and a point where it becomes too much. FWIW, I am firmly in the camp that government as it is right now is far too intrusive.
But what you and the rest of the hippie-dippie libertarian FSP types fail to recognize (oh, and how many of those 20K you’ve tried to get have ACTUALLY MOVED HERE?) is that libertarianism is great in theory, if you’re 15 years old. Or that punishment for transgression, contracts binding over all, yadda yadda yadda…
Spare me. Let’s try reality for a while, shall we? There’s a very good reason employers do drug testing, both as a pre-condition of employment and in many cases, to determine fitness for duty while on the job. We know that illegal drug and alcohol use results in reduced productivity, higher accident rates, higher workman’s comp costs, etc., etc…so why would I, as an employer, allow you to get stoned, even on “your time” when I know there’s a chance it will carry over into “my time”?
I mean, hey, if your career goals are to be a barista or run the fryolator for the rest of your life, hat’s off. But don’t piss, moan, and whine when your poor choices (legal or not) create hardship and limited opportunity for you.
YMMV.
Right but prescription pain pills are okay? They are nothing but “legal” heroin.
Oh by the way, I didn’t start the name calling but I will gladly return the favor. Go back and read what you pompous assholes actually said and how the conversation progressed.
@78–depends. So long as 1–they’re not abused, 2–not used in a period that would interfere with running equipment, driving, etc.
It’s when you have dipshits robbing drugstores for Oxy, Xanax, etc., (which happens quite a bit around here, sad to say) that your little fantasy of just getting a little “wake-and-bake” going on kinda gets blown out of the water.
Oh, wait, did I call pot a “gateway drug”? Aw, shit, now I’ve gone and done it. Do I get to be a “pompous asshole” AND “idiot” at the same time, or are those only allowed on alternating days?
Insisting that pot is harmless and everyone should just blaze up a doobie and relax, or you aren’t cool (yes, I’ve had that thrown at me) is the same thing as saying that you should just go ahead and have that mixed drink, because it’s harmless and if everyone else is drinking and you aren’t, then you’re not cool.
96BSer, you can preach all you like, but I’ve seen the effects of addiction to prescription drugs and alcohol in my father and caught my mother stealing his Rx drugs out of the medicine cabinet. There is NO difference, you stupid, uncomprehending, self-centered numbskull. Addiction is addiction, it doesn’t matter if it’s alcohol or drugs, it’s all the same thing.
And if you are actually stupid enough to think that pot isn’t addictive, you’ve already let everyone here know that getting high is more important to you than anything else.
@ #78: No, they are not. It is one of many observations I would have made had there been an actual conversation going on here. You in particular kept that from happening, seemingly with deliberate intention. It was you who derailed the attempt that the Stoned Gunman was making to engage in a back and forth discussion.
Instead, you insisted upon whipping out your dick, then proceeding to stomp on it. Don’t whine to us about your self-inflicted wound you got because you forgot to take off your spiked shoes first.
This whole thread has gone south.
I think people should read the Gupta article about how he as a doctor has changed his mind about marijuana. He even looked at how it became illegal. And it boiled down to the Goverment was lazy. They had tried booze and it backfired, and pot just kind of stuck.
Anything that feels good is by definition addictive. Breathing clean air is. Runner’s high is. Sex is. By nature people want good feelings. It’s kind of how they are wired.
Ben Franklin nailed it with moderation is the key. Anyone that cannot figure out tolerances is a failure. Drunks, failures. You ever drunk until you blacked out. Guess what, you were a dumbass. Overtook pain medication just because it was hurting a little too much too long. Dumbass.
Bantering back and forth and calling names in the thread (Irony is staggering here I know it.) Dumbass.
If it’s horrible then in six months Colorado will be apost apocalyptic warzone with limited ammunition magazines.
If not then you have all shown your asses in this thread. Let’s wait and see what happens.
@83: If you will notice; I said that the reason Colorado doesn’t give a rip about Magpul leaving is that they will be too busy counting the windfall tax money coming from the dope industry. That’s the sad truth about what’s going on in that state.
What I talked about later was due to others coming on cheerleading the self medication squad, even though no one had brought up that argument and to prove my point that they can’t debate without using that, they continue to use it, and I’m sorry to say; you are, too. Answer the hard questions (I asked you back in post #47) and then we can have a conversation, otherwise, you look as superficial as the rest of the pro-self medication/recreational use crowd.
@84 here ya got then. I got time tonight. No flights for a little while back to America. “@45: Your comparing apples and oranges with your stateme3nt about drunk driving deaths.” (No I am comparing a drug with a drug. But if people were arguing about the legalization of Orange Juice in Florida while everyone stateside already drinks Apple Juice then apples and oranges would be applicable.) “Just because many are killed, more dying will be better, because then you won’t be a hypocrite for it? I don’t get that.” (Fine, so how many deaths where alcohol is a contributing factor can be compared to deaths where Marijuana is the contributing factor. By all means illuminate us as to the amount of headlines of people that got depressed on weed and commited suicide. Frankly I think a person on weed is more likely to watch TV. But till you can show me marijuana contributed deaths equal to 1/10th of alcohol I pretty much thing booze is the worse drug. How many rapists were high versus the ole Dutch courage?) I guess if you want to make pot legal; one of he first things you should do is determine what the threshold is for driving impaired while high as a giraffe’s ass and how do you test for it? (Which is kinda of what they did. Not allowed at all. Blood tests. Do people even use google anymore? Took me five seconds to find http://www.kjct8.com/home/headlines/Colorado-State-Patrol-to-crack-down-on-high-drivers-238667811.html ) “Don’t you think that it would be a good idea to have that in place BEFORE making a drug legal? Since it’s all about the science; let the scientists tell the lawmakers how long a person is impaired on specific amounts of the drug. How do you determine it based on how potent the specific type of dope the person was using is? Do you have to, as a police officer, have a laminated card with all this information on it, so that you can determine if the person is impaired enough to not be able to drive? Is there a breathalyzer for it? When… Read more »
Here is the article by a Neurosurgeon. Try and enjoy.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/index.html?iid=article_sidebar
Look, dude, I lived in Colorado and I have relatives in Colorado and to tell you the truth, everything that you say in defense of pot is supposed to sway people to your thinking, however, there have been reams of articles on the science of global warming, too, which has cost people billions of dollars for a hoax. For every global warming article written, I can produce 2 that refute it. Just because 1 neurosurgeon signs on I’m supposed to just get down on bended knee and thank the stars that I have been shown the way? Get over yourself. I love how people that smoke dope think they are somehow at a much higher intellect than everyone else, too. I have laughed at people that were baked and trying to espouse about the social issues of the day at the same time. Comedy gold. Just like a drunk trying to tell you the facts about something in an argument, then in the next line, telling you they love you. Whether you self medicate with booze or pot, you aren’t any smarter for it.
By all means; feel free to write everyone in America and let them know how you feel about it.
So, AtDrum – just what are the thresholds in CO for DUI and DWI with respect to cannabis intoxication? What is the source for that threshold? What is the test method? Is it solely a post-accident test, or is there a field test useable with probable cause? How/when is it to be administered? What are the guidelines for probable cause for administering the test, or do such exist?
Citation, please. I’m not sharpshooting. I just would like to read that for myself and see if the Colorado legislature did a reasonable job there – or if they did the same kind of half-assed job as the Indiana legislature attempted 110+ years ago when it tried to legislate the mathematical quantity pi to be an exact number.
http://www.kjct8.com/home/headlines/Colorado-State-Patrol-to-crack-down-on-high-drivers-238667811.html
Zero tolerance for the moment. Blood Tests. The police will not be the ones taking the blood either, they will merely be there to ensure that the blood is taken from the person they have in incarceration.
At this moment, anything will get you in trouble in your blood. As the article states they have already begun training the police. With other articles you find that there were 2 parts to the laws. One was Amendment 64 and the other was setting up all the rest of the tests.
They are even going to define what Impaired means.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/colorado-lawmakers-struggle-to-define-whats-too-high-to-drive/
“The Task Force, which consists of 24 members from all levels of local government, has two months to work out all the complexities of Amendment 64, according to CBS Denver. They are set to have their first meeting on December 17 and are expected to make recommendations by Febuary 28. Rules and regulations are slated to approve on July 1 of next year.”
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leg.state.co.us%2FLCS%2FInitiative%2520Referendum%2F1112initrefr.nsf%2Fc63bddd6b9678de787257799006bd391%2Fcfa3bae60c8b4949872579c7006fa7ee%2F%24FILE%2FAmendment%252064%2520-%2520Use%2520%26%2520Regulation%2520of%2520Marijuana.pdf&ei=KnPKUrDbFvCM7AbT54GgDw&usg=AFQjCNFhaZJ9hKb0MQnOMVwwsRxEOt86aA
Google.
So, in other words: the referendum side-stepped the issue and is de facto going to let the courts decide. Because that is exactly what will happen when the “Task Force” defines its “standards”, imposes them administratively, and they’re challenged in court on multiple grounds.
The referendum also has set up CO for a load of invasion of privacy lawsuits IMO – as well as a huge waste of police resources. According to the above, a cop has two choices if he stops someone he suspects of driving while stoned: arrest them and force a blood test, or let them go. There’s no field sobriety test as a screen. I predict that means the state of CO is going to spend a lot of money in court the next few years as this gets sorted out – and that police will soon adopt a “stop and release” policy after getting burned once or twice.
In other words: half-assed law based on popular whim. Who’da thunk it?
If Colorado is like most states, you can be cited and/or jailed for driving while impaired, regardless of WHY you are impaired. That can include pot, sleeplessness, or a whole slew of other causes. Based on experience that probably means they will only be able to charge someone if they exhibit really gross symptoms such as weaving in traffic – it’s real hard for even a trained LEO to judge impaired reaction times etc. from a distance unless someone is really out of it.
I know a few HR folks, and they uniformly say “we don’t care what Colorado law says, if you pee positive you’re violating company policy and Federal law – so you’re history with the company.” My job ain’t worth getting high.