Not balancing the budget on the backs of veterans
Chief tango sends us a link from Stars & Stripes which reports that some pack of morons who call themselves the Stimson Center (named after former U.S. Secretary of War and Secretary of State Henry L. Stimson) have ‘discovered” a way to save the Department of Defense “$900 billion over a decade without sacrificing significant combat capabilities”. Sounds tempting, doesn’t it? Well this is their plan;
Among Stimson’s cost-cutting recommendations: pegging pay to specialization in high-demand areas; requiring military retirees to pay more for health care; curtailing the number of health care beneficiaries; and reforming military retirement plans to more closely resemble civilian-style retirement options.
The report suggested, among other actions, trimming the number of civilian and contractor employees, using service members to perform “inherently military functions” and reducing redundant support services inside each military branch. The report also outlined better management acquisition practices.
This year, the Air Force must cut $10.8 billion by the end of September. Among other actions to cut spending, the service has drastically slashed flying hours, grounded aircraft and deferred maintenance. It could furlough 13,000 civilian employees at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, among tens of thousands possible furloughs in the Defense Department.
I’m not surprised that first words out of their crooked little mouths is to make veterans pay more for something that we always understood was going to be without cost to us – you know one of the reasons that we sacrificed our youth and health to a career, thinking we were going to be taken care of. Why am I not surprised that I find the only member of their Board with military service is a Rear Admiral? Just more of that stuff from civilians who are jealous that we get something they think we don’t deserve.
And, oh, you can bet that the thing about slashing contractors means that active duty troops will be scrubbing pots on KP duty rather than on the ranges training.
Category: Veterans Issues
“. . . reforming military retirement plans to more closely resemble civilian-style retirement options.”
I’ll listen to that argument just as soon as the military becomes a civilian occupation. Until then – um, no. Don’t think so.
And, for the record: I don’t believe military retirement is all that different today from some police retirement plans.
http://porac.org/agencies-with-3-50-retirement/
It’ll happen eventually-when it comes down to cuts to Veteran’s programs versus trying to fund the runaway train that is Social Security, I think we all know which decision congresscritters will make.
I’m 46 and I can collect my pension at 58 1/2 (according to my latest RPAM statement), right now I give it about 50/50 odds of ever seeing a cent of that.
Yea, but try and suggest that these same reforms be brought to Social Security or Medicare (private retirement and healthcare savings accounts)and then listen to these very same people cry about how old people will starve and have no medical care.
The elites of this country are, for the most part, hopelessly corrupt. They just want access to yet more big piles of money and they will sell us all down the river to obtain that access.
I think the cops, firemen and teachers have better plans…of course talking about public sector retirement cuts versus private sector retirement taxation is not a very popular conversation as the police, firemen, and teachers have strong unions….since the military has no such union, f$cking them seems to be par for the course for our politicians. Sadly there is no consideration for how our government has been traitorous in its trade agreements with foreign nationals, while I am not a fan of protectionism there is no economic benefit for any industrialized nation to create a total free trade environment with nations whose labor force takes a decade to make what its’ own citizens make in a few months… While Ross Perot was crazier than bat sh1t on a number of levels he was deadly accurate with respect to the loss of manufacturing base jobs when free trade makes it cheaper to close your factory and move it 15,000 miles away and ship the stuff back to where you used to make it to sell it to the same folks….the resulting unemployment, lower average wages and widening gap between the middle and upper classes will not build wealth across the nation or help close our budget gaps. A continually poorer middle class ruins nations, while we can debate for hours what causes that middle class to be poorer there is no nation in the history of the world with an ever widening wealth gap between the middle and the top that has remained strong and successful. Our short sighted, instant gratification leadership has placed the United States on a course that doesn’t f$ck just veterans, it’s f#cking the entire nation and changing the very nature of what made us unique. Paul Ryan’s plan was harsh, but at least it was a plan. Our current crop of 4ssclowns are content to pretend that if just wish it so everything will turn out just fine….good luck with that. As I approach the end of my civilian employment years I have grave concerns for the nation being left for my grandchildren and those of my… Read more »
foreign nationals should be foreign nations ie; China and Mexico…
Sorry folks, the runaway train isn’t Social Security”, thats a earned benifit too all who pay social security for 40 or more quarters. With a 2% ooverhead, it makes mincemeat of all other plans. But it does have its shortcomings. To overcome those shortcomings, people like the Koch brothers will have to chip in their fair share. Same with the generals, and admirals. After all, they will collect that same amount of money that your sainted grandmother also collects, to be fed with. But there are programs that your tax dollars pay for that could be cut, but your tax bill will not go down, our leaders will cut their tax bill, not yours. So you see that pot hole, see that failing bridge, call the koch brothers, to repair that, call oon GM, call on Fed-Ex they wn’t repair it…Thats why government, t make it easier for you and I, otherwise, we are less then a third world coountry. Which some of our leaders want to see….They got theirs, now you can go suck on whatever….
Maybe it’s time for the military to go on strike.
Ooh teh Kochtupus is gonna getcha! Hey Jim, the rich might just decide to take their money elsewhere rather than pay whatever you think their “fair share” might be, what then? Social Security continues to accumulate meaningless IOUs and I expect that whatever I get back out of that will be inflated almost to worthlessness.
What you say about “our leaders” being hopelessly corrupt is true enough, but that’s because when government starts buying a lot of things the first thing that gets bought are those that govern. Our founders understood that and wisely limited government, but we decided that we knew better which is how we got the mess we have now.
“Balancing” the budget by cutting military benefits is like trying to lose weight by cutting your fingernails off.
Actually, Jim, the runaway train IS Social Security, because they’ve spent all the money and its operating as a pyramid scheme now. Same with Medicare; broke, no money.
that second paragraph makes the most sense. and Yes that puts “green suiter’s” back into KP. But it also puts the Cooks back in the DFAC, the MOS network managers/operators back at the base NEC, MP’s back on the gates (or even other Soldiers on a rotational basis) and patrolling base. Used to be a deliberate and planable training cycle detail week, training week, planning/prep/pickup details week (Red, Amber, Green). It was my experience that the detail week allowed for the time needed to get a training event well resourced. Right now I’ve got to resource events while I’m conducting others, easy to do on paper, but not so easy when you’ve physically got to be in 2 spots at the same time to get it done.
Jim shows the schizophrenia of the left. When Bernie Maddoff operates a pyramid scheme, its a Crime Against Humanity. But when the Government operates one, its a Service to Humanity.
And really, the Koch Brothers? You OWSers are just useful idiots being used by the Ruling Class of the Democrat Party to accrue more Government power.
Jim has forgotten that the American Revolution was a war against the taxman and overarching Governmental power, where he is just another Euro-trash socialist that want to give government all the power.
Yes, let’s do dissociate the military world from the civilian world completely.
And while we’re at it, reinstate the draft so that eveyrone has to serve a minimum time on active duty.
Think tankers are people with PhDs in hypothesizing, theorizing and speculating. They’re mostly useless. Don’t even mow their own lawns or walk their own dogs, but they do get paid a lot to think about something and then publish recommendations on it.
AS I recall, Beetle Bailey actually did spend a great deal of time peeling potatoes.
SGT Ted-yep, and also only the Koch’s (and those like them) are pursuing their own self interest somehow. Warren Buffett is the largest shareholder in Berkshire Hathaway and the changes in the tax code that he supports would mean that thousands (at least) of people would change their investment strategies which would potentially mean big bucks for him, but apparently his political motives are as pure as the driven snow.
Uh, Jim? Tell ya what, buddy–go to your local SSA office and ask to see how much money is in “your” account. Now those “rich” people like the Koch brothers, et al, of whom you speak–do they NEED SS? Because frankly, even I, far from the 1 percent, am not only NOT counting on SS, it certainly wouldn’t be enough to sustain me and my needs in my old age. Basically, it’s beer, gas, and poker money. And only if I limit those.
And ask to see how much you’d get if you retired tomorrow. 40 quarters ain’t shit, yet we have people on SSDI who haven’t contributed jack to the system. People my age are going to contribute MORE to the system than we’ll see back, unless I somehow manage to live into my mid-90’s…an unlikely prospect at best.
But you keep telling yourself what a “good deal” SS is, and then look at what happened in Galveston, et al, back in the 1980’s. Now mind you, unlike virtually every government retirement plan, those folks have virtually ZERO unfunded liability. Social Security? Try over A HUNDRED TRILLION DOLLARS…a number like that even makes Dr. Evil go, “Fuck, ain’t no such number!”
Now tell me SS is going to be solvent or even providing close to today’s benefits to retirees 20-25 years from now. C’mon, try.
SGT Ted: Social Security is hardly a private retirement plan. It’s a government income transfer program financed through earmarked taxes – that will soon be insufficient to pay the benefits defined by law.
Jim-boy: Social Security an “earned benefit”? Thanks for the laugh.
You might want to go read a SCOTUS case called “Flemming v. Nestor” (1960). The SCOTUS clearly held that you have no contractual right to receive a damn thing from Social Security. Rather, you get whatever the Federal government says you get – and if they decide to change it, that’s too bad. I’ll even make reading the case easy for ya, Jim-boy:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=363&page=603
Social Security is nothing but yet another unearned entitlement funded using Federal tax revenues, like SNAP (formerly foodstamps). The only difference is that it’s paid out of earmarked tax revenues (FICA) vice general tax revenues.
What!?! Actual Supreme Court rulings?
How dare you? The nerve!
It’s a conspiracy by wealthy conservatives and libertarians-Jim said.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
“And while we’re at it, reinstate the draft so that eveyrone has to serve a minimum time on active duty.” — Ex-PH2
Let’s say they did reform our retirement to match civilian retirement. That big stampede they’re going to hear is the noise many service members would make as they beat a path to the ETS/EAOS exit.
Why put up with all that when there’s an easier way to get said retirement?
Back in the 1990s, when “REDUX” was still in effect, people were getting out instead of making it a career… “REDUX” was far more generous than the civilian style retirement that people are throwing around.
With a civilian style retirement, we’re going to NEED the draft just to keep the minimum numbers of people in the military that Congress wants.
@19 no conspiracy certainly, but a disaster nonetheless. A nation of starving old people who were depending on Social Security to provide a subsistence living when that fund fails will make a most interesting national debate….
@18 sadly if they had even attempted to manage the fund instead of raping it bone dry there would be money aplenty…a couple grand a year with interest over 40 years gets pretty large at payout….a purchased annuity paid for over that time would make retirees safer as well, but as you point out when it comes time to f#ck millions of old folks they most certainly will…
@20–perhaps that’s because a military 401(k) style retirement plan would suck balls, when one considers relative compensation to that of a civilian worker? Even the current retirement plan sucks balls.
I got out after 12 years. I put a portion of the DIFFERENCE in pay into a 401(k) and just that money alone for the first 8 years is more than I would have made in retirement assuming I had made E-7.
Now tell that E-1 putting 10 percent of his base into an account is going to be worth a shit after 20 years (hint, not really.)
NHSparky: actually, a military 401k exists now. The uniformed military has had a version of the TSP (a Federal retirement savings plan that qualifies as a 401k) since the late 1990s or early 2000s. No matching funds, but the other benefits of a 401k (tax deferral, deduct contributions from current-year income, plus choice of investments) are there.
Add some degree of matching and it could be made fairly attractive.
VOV-perhaps a disaster, but the debate might be instructive to the extent that we learn to take the promises of the political class with a giant grain of salt. Other than that families might be able to make adjustments and some people will never be able to “retire”, which itself is a relatively recent aspect of life.
Of course what I actually expect is that Congress will try to squeeze money from every available source-to include running the printing presses-until the whole thing inevitably collapses. People love to believe comforting fictions and con artists (which most certainly includes politicians) love to sell them.
Will wonders never cease. And yeah, without a match, it’s not a very effective plan.
Scott AFB got alot civilians too. Of course the base I am at got alot of civilians since we are a reserve base. I am waiting to go into work today. Because I know my Super has probably announced the schedule. since he likes to plan ahead.
They have threatened us (Air force) pretty much since February with Furlough month after month. Wish they would just do it already and shut up.
Honda, I didn’t claim SS was a private plan.
The Stars and stripes neglects talking about reserve bases like Westover, New Orleans or even homestead. Bases that are strictly ran by civilians. Our base will have to stop working altogether on certain days, cut flying and training down.
@4 You are spot on. I served but am not a retiree. I have always said, do what you will to whom you will but never, ever mess with the retirement benefits of those who gave their life’s career to serving this nation. Not one dime less. Whether a person served as a cook for 20+ years or spend their career going from one hot spot of action to another, they deserve every benefit we can give them. We don’t see congress taking a penny less than they can “award themselves” at every opportunity. They get pension, social security and health care (not ObamaCare). This is a sad commentary on what our administration thinks of its nation’s finest. Another post was right, teachers, firemen, police and union workers of all types are protected from this type of mugging. I can’t believe they are once again trying to single out retired vets to try and make a buck.
“This year, the Air Force must cut $10.8 billion by the end of September. Among other actions to cut spending, the service has drastically slashed flying hours, grounded aircraft and deferred maintenance.”
I think this is what infuriates me more than anything else. If the USAF isn’t flying and isn’t keeping their aircraft flyable…what in God’s name are they paying for???
Mike
Mike, they are paying for USAF to can parts and working skeleton shifts to fix those planes.
“curtailing the number of health care beneficiaries”
What does that mean? Kicking spouses and children off military health care. Screw retention and bennies. Watch the DoD bleed personnel as people leave. Congrats Stimpson Center, you will have done what the USSR failed to do, weaken the military!
Hondo, Thanks for the clarification.
I do agree that we need to remove the contractors from the war. When my unit deployed, their civilian supply contractor (taking over the job of the 92Y) was earning the equivalent of a 1LT, the cooks were piss poor KDY and the guys typically had diarrhea from the food, and the laundry at one point lost an entire load of uniforms.
I know for a fact that the Army trains supply, cooks, and laundry because I went to school for Supply and they train cooks and laundry at the same base!
Why are we paying civilians to play at military jobs when we have the military fully trained to be self-sufficient in the field without civilian involvement?