TAH Poll: Contractors and Veterans
OK, so we’ve said now repeatedly that it was about 50/50 on whether a contractor is a “Combat Veteran”. At this point, it really doesn’t matter to the fight, since superceding events have taken it elsewhere. Nonetheless, I am curious what you guys think. At this point, I don’t even know my own position, so I guess I won’t be altering your opinions.
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Category: Politics
I resisted the temptation to vote more than once. I guess that means I really would make a lousy Democrat.
Hey, CIA, ATF, DEA, FBI, CECOM, INS, all those fed acronyms, they aint contractors. They’re federal GS employees. I’ve worked with them, general dynamics, Raytheon, a couple others and yeah a couple blackwater guys bought me a subway sammich for fixing a radio. The latter are contractors. Neither are considered combat veterans in my eyes, even though we ducked the same bullets. However… The CECOM guys I’ve known for 20 years were mostly Vietnam vets.
Please note I didn’t say Vietnam era. Been with them through Afghanistan & Iraq a few times, I learned as much from them as my drill sergeant in 87
Twist/RB: yeah that’s the one. That’s as real as reality TV gets.
Naysayers: I can tell you that I know many contractors that have done their jobs for more patriotic reasons than many of the Troops I have known. They got shot at with bullets that were just as deadly as those the Troops were shot at, and dead is just as dead, no matter how low the job security or how low the benefits, or how high the pay.
And EVERY SINGLE contractor I’ve known, was first a Veteran, many of the combat Veteran variety, and highly qualified at that. They took risks that would never be asked of a Soldier.
Yes, there are those that “do it for the money” but they are far outnumbered that do it for God and Country. And frankly, I’m disappointed that so many would overlook their years, or decades of honorable service, simply because their training and service, eventually led them to a high paying job, doing it in a high risk job, AFTER they did what was asked of them for peanuts.
@47: To answer your question I believe they would have been considered “Enemy Aliens.” Same-same for the German crews of merchant vessels docked in the US on the day Germany declared war vs. the US. Enemy aliens are normally interned for the duration, but they are not POW’s and are not entitled to POW status.
Not sure if the Geneva or Hague convention deals with enemy aliens, but I presume they do in some capacity since this was not an unusual circumstance for people to find themselves in when a “formal” war broke out.
I got my law degree after I retired from the military so I never studied LOAC. Maybe one of the JAG’s can chime in, I presume they cover this in JAG training.
@53 If a contractor’s claim to calling themselves a ‘Combat Vet’ is solely their time working as a contractor, then pick another appellation. Combat Veteran is taken.
As Rush is fond of saying, Words mean things. A person described above is indeed a ‘combat veteran’ though perhaps not a ‘Combat Veteran’.
Folks here can parse things however they like, but our language has rules. With all due lack of sympathy to the sensibilities of some of our more outspoken members, if you don’t acknowledge them you are just another participant in our language’s demise.
Understand this, while there is a legal definition of ‘Veteran’ for the purposes of certain governmental agencies, that definition is by no means universal from one agency to the next, and none of them are an all encompassing definition that definitively establishes a singular definition.
I keep going back and forth.
The hypothetical person is a Veteran, with a capital “V”.
They’re also a veteran of combat, with a lowercase “v”.
But a “Combat Veteran”? I dunno.
Service rendered for cash and service rendered for love of country should never be equated. Its unfair to the contractors to even make this comparison. As far as your poll, I would answer they are combat veterans, for they were in combat, and having survived, are veterans, meaning they are experienced. However if they went around claiming to be veterans, and leaving people with the impression they earned that status in the military, via honorable deployments and engagements overseas, I would have a problem with it. All that being said, I wouldnt waste a lot of time and thought on the matter if I encountered someone bragging falsely about such a situation. People brag and inflate all the time. Its human nature, and a charachter flaw.
Why no Combat Contracter choice?
Entrenched Civilian Organic Trigger Operation Device?
Civilians detained by an occupying power are referred to in Geneva Conventions of 1949 as “protected persons”. They’re commonly called “detainees”.
Their treatment is governed by the 4th Geneva Convention (the 3rd Geneva Convention defines and covers treatment of POWs). The treatment mandated by the 4th Geneva Convention for detainees is substantially less generous than that provided for POWs.
Essentially, all that’s required is humane treatment – meals, shelter, medical care and clothing to the same degree as provided for your own troops plus an opportunity to practice religion. That’s about it. So long as they’re not physically abused and receive the above, a nation is compliant with the 4th Geneva Convention regarding the treatment of detainees.
http://www.icrc.org/ihl/385ec082b509e76c41256739003e636d/6756482d86146898c125641e004aa3c5
As long as the contractors aren’t identified as illegal combatants….also it only helps if your opponent actually subscribes to the convention…our current enemies have no such affiliation, nor did the Japanese respect/honor the Geneva convention. That’s why we hung so many of the little b4stards after the war…
Beret, my “get fucked” was directed at anyone who wants to give contractors the same honors as soldiers, not at you, sorry for the confusion.
I got more respect for the POGiest POG in POGville than I do the most “high speed” combat-experienced contractor.
@62.Joe…I couldn’t say it better. I agree 100%.