McChrystal calls for a draft
General Stan McChrystal, according to Josh Rogin at Foreign Policy, called for a return of the draft;
“I think we ought to have a draft. I think if a nation goes to war, it shouldn’t be solely be represented by a professional force, because it gets to be unrepresentative of the population,” McChrystal said at a late-night event June 29 at the 2012 Aspen Ideas Festival. “I think if a nation goes to war, every town, every city needs to be at risk. You make that decision and everybody has skin in the game.”
McChrystal admits that it would lead to a loss of professionalism in the ranks, but I guess because he’s a liberal deep inside (he voted for Obama, he says) the loss of a successful military is secondary to everyone’s feelings about war. Americans were largely against the surge in Iraq, and their opinions didn’t matter, because it happened anyway. Americans wanted the wars to end and they voted for Obama…the casualties since the “peace President” took office are 2/3s of the total US casualties in the nearly 11-year war. So what good would everyone having “skin in the game” do for our policies?
I wonder what the casualty count would be if the force was partly draftees. In Vietnam, draftees were 25% of the total force but they accounted for 30.4% of the combat deaths.
So, yeah, if the way everyone feels about our prospective wars is more important than the actual outcome, let’s start a draft.
Category: Military issues
No. 22:
Your final paragraph, characterizing “. . . Army infested . . .” — has NOTHING to do with what I saw. No, obviously I was NOT everywhere at the same time, but you are making MY war and MY US ARMY (at that time) sound very bad, and I more than disagree.
We WON that war, were gone two full years, and only then could the stupid commie zombies take over ANYTHING.
Perhaps you should perform some diligent study, or at least, cite more evidence — before you toss out convulsions (my term for bad conclusions) .
@50: That’s what I’m talking about. We don’t have such a requirement as I have laid out for the simple reason that we can’t determine to go to war based on whether the CinC has “skin in the game”.
@ #22-Ben ~~Furthermore, I think anyone suggesting a draft should study the last draft we had during the Vietnam War. It was a shitshow. It also led to an Army infested with indiscipline, low morale, criminality, drug use, and fragging. And plenty of people ducked it, so the idea that we’re going to make all communities proportionally represented is a fallacy.~~
A funny thing happened along the way, but I find it rather odd in your last paragraph that you’d mention “fragging” during Vietnam. Tell me since I am a veteran of the USA Military Police Corps. What was your division and unit? Americal by chance? Oh yea, I would be remiss in advising you that the MEJA Act of 2000 apparently applies too….
#53 is me….
Stan McChrystal graduated from West Point in 1976 – in the heart of the U.S. Army’s dark ages of drug abuse, low morale, racial strife, disobedience, AWOL etc. WP also suffered a major cheating scandal at the time. Would like to hear more about his experience as a junior officer and how that shaped his opinions on draft. Oh and don’t forget about Pat Tillman saga/fiasco – that is something for which the General (and few other senior leaders) really should be inducted into Hall of Shame.
At least there’s ONE liberal who’s willing to say exactly why he favors discarding the volunteer military – he says flat-out that he wants to reduce its skill and effectiveness. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Thomas Ricks from the Washington Pest:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/its-time-to-toss-the-all-volunteer-military/2012/04/19/gIQAwFV3TT_story.html
Germany has Eighty Million souls, not thirty.
“How about mandatory service, similar to the Germans?” —
(Comment, above)
The GERMANS have the DEADLIEST PHILOSOPHIC IDEAS ever published,
from KANT (Wikipedia Article on Immanuel Kant reports Kant’s view of “Reason” exactly wrong), MARX/LENIN, HEGEL (Official Nazi Philosopher), and on and on.
The Germans are good machine builders and camera makers; their political ideas are deadly
(Politics is one of the five branches of philosophy) .
Please be careful of German Politics — Americas’s ORIGINAL politics are the best known to man .
Well — you’ve all got me now — I misspelled “America’s.”
Dr. Brett, Et Alia: Because I wasn’t permitted to enlist in the United States Marine Corps, I volunteered to be drafted, and was inducted into the United States Army at the main AFEES center in downtown Portland, Oregon on Thursday 07 December 1967. I had my Basic Combat Training in Company “D”, 3d Battalion, 1st Brigade at Fort Lewis, Washington, and then completed (barely!) the Field Radio Relay and Carrier Equipment Repair (MOS 31 L 20) course at the Southeastern Signal School at Fort Gordon, Georgia. My first assignment was Company “A”, 11th Air Defense Signal Battalion, 32d Army Air Defense Command in Kaiserslautern, Germany, although most of time would be spent TDY at Spangdahlem Air Force Base. After my time was up, I reenlisted to go to the Republic of Viet Nam, where I spent two years (having volunteered twice to extend my tour), assigned to the Phu Lam Signal Battalion, 1st Signal Brigade in Saigon, the 178th Maintenance Company, 1st Logistical Command at Dong Ha, the 501st Signal battalion, 101st Airborne Division at Camp Eagle (Hue/Phu Bai), and the Division Support Command, 101st Airborne Division at Da Nang. Upon my return to “the World”, I was assigned to the Combat Developments Experimentation Command at Hunter Liggett Military Reservation in California. Then, I went to the Republic of Korea, where I was stationed at Won Ju with the 307th Signal Battalion, 8th Army, and took OJT in law enforcement with the 142d Military Police Company, 8th Army in Seoul. My final three years in the United States Army were at Fort Hood, Texas with the 16th Signal Battalion, XII Corps Support Command, and then OJT as a Cavalry Scout (MOS 11 D 20) in the 9th Cavalry, 12th Cavalry, and 7th Cavalry. Throughout my Army experience, YES!!!, troop morale was DEFINITELY in the toilet, with violent racial polarization, universal indulgence in illegal drugs, and SEVERAL cases of “fragging” or shootings. A lot of that was further aggravated and/or provoked by official policies of commanders, i.e., showing favoritism toward Blacks, while penalizing Whites, et cetera, or losing control of their… Read more »
@57. You forgot really kick ass cars.
😉
CORRECTION:
That’s supposed to be XIII Corps Support Command, NOT “XII Corps Support Command”.
Golly, gee whillikers, I’m embarrassed by all my typographical errors!
[…] Draft our kids July 10th, 2012 So, in the New York Times, Tom Ricks echoes Stan McCrystal’s call to bring back the draft. Ricks is two days younger than me, but our life experiences are quite […]
No. 37 Old Trooper:
“Personally, I would rather have someone next to me that wasn’t forced to be there.”
Thank you, and “AMEN” to your statement.
PRESIDENT NIXON formed the Gates Commission, and deserves credit for our VOLUNTEER FORCES .
No. 59 John Robert Mallernee:
I thank you for your detailed account — obviously, you are a fine patriot and an upstanding man.
I have to stand by my No. 51 — “what I saw.” Yes, I HEARD tales of improper troops — but saw nothing of note firsthand. You may have been stationed in RVN (The Republic Of Vietnam) later than I — I have read that problems among the troops increased about 1970 approximately, which is the year after I left (1969). And I heard about some problems near the end of my time in RVN.
I was NOT in a trigger-puller outfit — but I believe drugs and other problems were not much tolerated there. However, I heard about MUCH WORSE PROBLEMS IN THE STATES (“the world”) — Nineteen Sixty-Eight, for example !!
I was in the US ARMY FEB 1967 to SEP 1969 (early out for extending in Vietnam).
I really got little news at all, while I was in Vietnam — and I did NOT seek it out, much (too much FRAUD REPORTING). But I WAS aware of “problems” because I heard TALK — but I did not witness anything serious.
I hope this answers your questions — I suppose my rambling answer is not literary, but because those in the States did not fully support my effort, I do not enjoy recalling those times . Should I have skipped something, please write again.
In Reason,
DR BRETT .
(I do not even care to edit my own comment over and over for small typo errors — because I dislike recalling those days.)
Some references about USA Military Conscription (“the draft”) — no, I have NOT YET read these through — you be THE JUDGE :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Herbits
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Recruiting_Command
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Gravel#Vietnam_War.2C_the_draft.2C_and_the_Pentagon_Papers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_States
No. 60 SFC HOLLAND:
I agree — motorcars come under the heading “. . . good machine builders . . .” —
But I did forget — CHEMICALS, and PIANOS (again, a machine).
served 82 to 85 15d in germany. once they started giving deferments during nam and printing money to pay for all of it {bought any war bonds lately} the gig was up. the elitists heard it loud and clear {hell no we won’t go} so what did they do – all volunteer army paid for with deficit spending. I deeply feel for troops. Just because they elnisted that doesn’t mean they are to shoulder the burden of defending the country in war ad infinitum. If Loyd Blankfeinds {goldman sacks} kids were getting draft notices does anyone think these zionist wars would still be going on? Let’s not forget the empty va hospital beds that need to be filled to keep that monster alive. When they’re landing on the beaches here i’m there. Until then no chance in hell my kid is going to serve. I’ll die keeping him out of any form of service. And that is sad and dangerous for America. We need troops on the streets of Chicago not in Afghanistan.