IAVA: Fighting Hard With For Profit Schools To Rip Off Veterans
As I always do each morning, I check my email. What I found today was a nice email from Paul Rieckhoff of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, letting me know about the dangers of for-profit colleges. For-profit colleges, it is now known, account for a huge chunk of Post 9/11 GI Bill payouts, but oftentimes deliver a dismal learning experience and engage in questionable marketing practices.
Well — not to worry — because Paul and the boys at IAVA “Got Your Back” as they like to say, and they want to hear your story if you’ve been a target of deceptive marketing by one of these schools.
But wait… wasn’t there an improvement act passed to the Post 9/11 GI Bill a couple years back? Let’s check the memory hole…
Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA) is encouraged by the Chairman’s discussion draft of S. 3447, the “Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Improvement Act.” This discussion draft of S. 3447 will improve the New GI Bill and ensure that all student veterans have access to the most generous investment in veterans’ education since World War II. By simplifying and streamlining the administrative rules, S. 3447 would enable the Department of Veteran Affairs (VA) to process GI Bill claims in a timely manner. S. 3447, which we have come to call the “New GI Bill 2.0,” is a comprehensive effort to address the concerns of tens of thousands of student veterans and their families by:
• Offering valuable job training for students studying at vocational schools
• Granting National Guardsmen who respond to national disasters full GI Bill credit
• Providing living allowances for veterans in distance learning programs
• Simplifying and expanding the tuition benefit
• Including a book stipend for active duty students
IAVA is proud to endorse this legislation, contingent upon the following improvements being included in the bill. We therefore have included several simple and important technical recommendations we would like to see addressed in the August mark-up.
[…]
IAVA Technical Recommendations: A student veteran pursuing a degree through a distance program should qualify for a living allowance based on the zip code of his or her residence. Or, at the very least, the living allowance should be set at the lowest Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH) rate for an E-5 pay grade, with dependents. This adjustment would be an increase of about $140 over the currently purposed rate.
Let me translate. It was Congress, pushed by IAVA who brought on these predators. Before this act, a veteran had to attend a traditional university to get the living stipend. IAVA would like you to forget that they helped push legislation that the for-profit college industry was so happy to see come to fruition.
But the internet never forgets.
Category: Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America
Public schools also have distance learning programs, notably Rio Salado out in AZ, UMUC in DC; and many schools are quickly moving in that direction (read up on the UVa fiasco).
It’s not even close to being black and white. UOP had what I needed when I needed it, when the state schools did not. It was pricey, but they offered more credit for training than public schools and classes when I needed them. And the degree added value, since it was enough to get me in a competitive MBA program (along with a solid GMAT).
IAVA is only hurting Vets by fighting to limit their choices.
I just find it quite funny that are now fighting against a system that they helped put into place.
Not only did they fight to put this system in place, but they scored Barack Obama better than John McCain on their scorecard for the 2008 election when McCain was questioning these very issues…and they’re threatening to score congress on their votes on this issue this year. But they’re non-partisan *eyeroll*.
My wife is doing a for profit school (South University) and I have mixed feelings about it. I think she is getting a valuable education that is just as good as a brick and mortar school, but I’m not the one hiring. There have been some ‘misunderstandings’ regarding her graduation date and the out of pocket costs.
However I do have a problem with blanket accusations that say a for profit school cannot serve their students simply because they are ‘for profit.’
I am not an active service member or a veteran. I am a citizen who totally supports our service members and veterans. I also happen to work at a non- profit two year community college and, for the moment (I’m sure I will get over it), I am livid with IAVA! What for-profit schools do to this delicate population is unconscionable! But the new executive order (13607), also pushed by IAVA, has left us non-profits in an awful position. Most often we have no idea who our veterans or service members are until they identify themselves to us. Most don’t want to. They want to blend and that’s okay, we want to help you either way. Now we will be forced to make these fine men and women identify themselves, even when they don’t want to, just to comply with Principles that are unclear and ambiguous, at best. We are now told, even though DVA and DoD have never communicated what the expectations are, that if we don’t agree to comply with the Principles, we will be on the “naughty list”. Who the hell will hold these two agencies accountable for their part? When the Post 9/11 GI bill was implemented, it covered all your tuition and fee expenses. Now they will only pay the in-state rate. You, the veteran, are responsible for the difference between the in-state and out-of-state rate. In addition, if you receive a scholarship or grant, or some other source of funds that is awarded for the purpose of defraying tuition and fee costs, we have to deduct that from the funds we certify to DVA! If you use federal TA, DoD will no longer cover mandatory fees tied to tuition,for you. Community Colleges charge by credit hour, not by course. Our tuition and mandatory fees (usually two to three) are our primary source of revenue.They are the service members responsibility now! There are so many things wrong with all of this and I have gone on way too long here, but it just makes me angry. Perhaps IAVA needs to focus on these issues as… Read more »
@5 I understand the President ‘cherry picked’ consumer protections from pending legislation to compose EO 13607. The EO as a whole is ill advised, although most schools already have policies for pretty much all the principles outlined in the EO. We also don’t have a way to comply with the first principle (notice before enrolling). The Title IV refund model also needs more information/clarification.
Most of the disclosures mandated by the EO are already provided to ED, although for the broader student population. Let’s add more reporting and bureaucracy.
@1 To back up what Radar said, there are a lot of non-profit/state schools that have distance learning programs. I am the beneficiary of Troy University’s. Now I’m looking at a distance master’s degree from Mississippi State. It’s really IMO a matter of educating the troops about where and how to get the best education, just like my in my E-nothing days NCO’s beat into our heads how to avoid car dealers with outrageous interest rates on POS vehicles.
Country Singer is correct; IAVA is merely asking if for profit colleges have lied to veterans using GI Bill benefits to attend. Not all for-profit schools lie or have lied, and that is not what IAVA is saying. Also, there are plenty of traditional schools with online programs and not all for-profit schools are online only. So the “smoking gun” in this post is anything but.
Actually, I didn’t say a thing defending for-profit colleges (and I damn sure ain’t defending IAVA) and merely point out that all distance learning isn’t at for-profit schools. Bottom line, troops/vets shouldn’t attend non-accredited institutions. It’s a waste of time and money.
My 2 cents on GI bills: When I left the Navy in 1970 to go back to school and finish my degree, I applied for the GI Bill at the local VA office in my hometown. The checks were sent directly to me. I borrowed enough money to pay for the first semester’s tuition and also applied for a tuition scholarship, which I received at the end of the first semester. The checks were sent directly to me, not to the school. I got back to my university two weeks ahead of the start of the fall semester and submitted the application for the scholarship to start with the spring semester. If I had thought about it, I could have transferred to the reserve unit at Glenview NAS for the two years it took me to finish, and had some extra cash, too. The GI Bill was a specific monthly amount back then. That seems to have changed a whole lot. Wasn’t there a time when the active duty people could set aside money for their GI Bill tuition and receive it when they were accepted to a college or university? In an aside, there are scholarship funds in massive quantities that are not being used because no one is applying for them, not because they don’t qualify but because they don’t know about them. There is an annual scholarship and grant catalog published around this time every year, available to anyone who wants to buy it. You can probably find it at your local library, too. I don’t like these ads I see for schools like Phoenix and ITT. They promise things but don’t publish actual results. Ads do not impress me. There are thousands of universities and colleges that offer high-quality education, campus and online courses, and reasonable tuition. Illinois has a state tuition grant for veterans, as do several other states, as long as you are going to a state or public university (e.g., U of I, NEIU) as opposed to a private on (U of Chicago). I’m very suspicious of these for-profit schools and I’d rather… Read more »
Ex-PH2: Question: why is it OK for tax dollars to support not-for-profit organizations acting as life support systems for academia, but not to for-profit organizations performing the same function? Shouldn’t the distinction be based on some recognized measure of effectiveness rather than whether the solution is provided by the public or private sector?
And an even more basic question: for an individual entitlement like the GI bill, why should the government have the power to decide from which vendor any individual purchases a particular good or service?
Devon (#8), if IAVA was asking for general experiences and not focusing on the negative, I’d agree with you. But they aren’t asking for general experiences, and so I don’t agree with you.
Ex-PH2, the Post 9/11 GI Bill requires that the VA payment go to the school, not the student-veteran. Trust me, the schools don’t want it to be processed this way, but no one asked us when Webb wrote the bill. It’s a lot better benefit than Chapter 30 or the Vietnam era GI Bill, and even includes BAH and a book stipend, especially good at a public school where it will pay the in-state tuition rate. (I previously used the same process you did, pay for school and draw a monthly check).
Regardless of that, IAVA is fishing for failure stories and plans to use them to fight for legislation that limits choice. Generally speaking, this is bad news, just look to the aforementioned EO as one example.
Radar, thank you for the info. I did not know that. I used my GI Bill check to pay off my student loan and buy books and pay for fees, and getting a scholarship helped. Hondo, it’s not so much that the non-profit schools are better. They are less predatory in recruiting students than the for-profit schools, and I feel that their accreditation status, which has to be met annually by a national board, is more valid than the for-profit schools. An BFA given by the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, attached to the Art Institute of Chicago, carries more weight than an diploma from the International Academy of Art & Design, also in Chicago, because the SAIC publishes their accreditations and IADT does not. One is not-for-profit, the other is for profit. One assures you that you’ll get work, the other does not. Especially in a very sluggish job market, seeing students as cash cows instead of as people to push into doing brilliant work is disgusting. The for-profit schools frequently have questionable credentials and curricula and their credits often don’t transfer to other schools. My answer to your question, asking if the government should have the right to decide from which vendor someone should or should not purchase goods or services is this: There is a local college that is advertising for students on TV, guaranteeing you’ll find work within six months of graduating, or they’ll pay all your bills. They’ve been in trouble over doing this two years ago, and I’ll bet it will happen again, soon. How on earth do they think they can do this and get away with it? The advertising is misleading and directly aimed and getting the unsuspecting individual to agree to go to that college, whether or not the classes actually lead to real employment, and whether or not the diploma issued at graduation has any validity. What if the student from this school does get work and subsequently decides to apply to graduate school to increase his earning power, only to find that his degree from the for-profit… Read more »
Thanks, StrikeFO, Jonn Lilyea, for this valuable work — showing IAVA actions.
Hard to find an OBJECTIVE War Veteran Association — “OWVA” !!
Can someone recommend a specific outfit, that IS objective ??
No. 4 BohicaTwentyTwo:
Thanks for standing up for Capitalism .
No. 11 HONDO:
Wonderful — exposing the foundation of “NON”-profit outfits !!
And, “. . . why should the government have the power to decide . . .” —
THE FORBIDDEN QUESTION !!
Well, I suppose from a certain stand point you’d have to include ivy league schools into “for profit” too right? You tell me it takes the amount of money students pay to go there to run the school and they break even? Hell no, they make truckloads of money every year.
How about any college with a “bowl game” team? You know, the ones that get paid like a million bucks just for attending a bowl game at the end of the season?
Again, for profit is relative and who would decide? Maybe the lobbyists that will come out of the woodwork providing monies to campaign funds for elected officials to get on their side?
Its pretty simple, if the education department gets enough complaints, they cut off the school, it should be so simple right?
The question should not be “for-profit” vs. “non-profit” but rather accredited vs non-accredited. Aren’t Harvard & Yale also “for-profit” schools? Or is there a different distinction made between that what used to be called “public” (state managed/owned) and “private” (board ran) schools.
And it should not be a matter of just scamming Veterans. If a “college” is selling a fraudulent product, then they should be shut down, period.
Yes, single mothers and tweens should research before they buy into their educational careers, but there is also a burden of responsibility on the State to put fraudulent businesses out of business. Frankly, I have less sympathy for a Veteran scammed by a no-name, non-accredited organization than the 23 year-old single mother trying to get out of her McDonald’s job, because Troops have professional resources at the Education Center and Veterans can use the DVA for advice.
But I suppose Rieckhoff thinks Veterans shouldn’t get their parchment from the likes of USC, Harvard, Yale, Notre Dame, or Vanderbilt?
Dead on target, WOTN. Many “for profit” schools are indeed accredited – but some are not. The University of Phoenix is a well-known example of the former. The proverbial “diploma mills” are examples of the latter.
Anyone attending college or technical training needs to do their homework, and in particular research all prospective institution’s academic accreditation. Reputable institutions will publish their accreditation status and the organization through which they are accredited. If they don’t, that’s should be a major red flag.
This link may also be valuable: http://www.ope.ed.gov/accreditation/
Any one having issues with receiving the BAH check for this month? I received exactly half a week ago, here I am on the 9th waiting for the rest, and when I call the VA they want to set an appointment a week out to call me back.
I have been attending the University of Phoenix (On Campus) for 2.5 years and I will graduate in seven months. I work at a very well known Southern University and had attempted to enroll with them. It took their “Veteran’s assistance coordinator a month to return an email (that I sent from my on-campus account). So I went to UOP to figure out what they had. They accepted every transfer credit I had, which saved me a year of school (we only get 3 years of benefit from VA). The biggest problem with UOP is that with their 5-week course plan the learning curve is very steep. You cannot slack at UOP because if you get behind on work it is nearly impossible to make it up again.
IVAW are fucking turds.
I was a prior service (AD) IN officer. SGT(p)-GTG-2LT. Got out as an 0-3E. I came across these turds a while back when they tried to “talk to me”.
I really did not know much about them so I listened to their story. I then started speaking with some of them, you know, “vetting” service.
All NG and Reservists with a handful of AD. Some of these clowns were full of shit. You should have heard some of the stories. Convoy security and route clearance became MTC and far/near ambush. Not that the mission can not become that under certain enemy situations and subsequent circumstances, but know what I mean?
Its the fucking NG. I understand they have a mission and do that mission but come on…
Told them to fuck off and they became indignant. I even asked one of there “Infantry” guys (with umpteen million MOS identifiers) why the sky was blue? (my usual vetting question)He did not know. Are you serious?
I just slipped away….
Because God loves the Infantry!
IMO you get what you pay for when it comes to a degree. Since the government is paying for it, the GI Bill should only be able to be used at accredited schools. Also the 9/11 GI Bill is awesome. Glad I’m in Texas also, because I fully intend to make use of the Hazelwood Act someday.