Lt. Gen. Richard Mills: Female infantry training will be the same as the men
The Marine Corps Times reports that Lt. Gen. Richard Mills, the deputy commandant for combat development and integration stated the other day that the proposed infantry training for women will match the training that men receive in the same schooling.
“It’s the same exact program of instruction a male lieutenant who’s going to go on to become an infantry officer would get — exactly the same,” Mills said of the course. “That involves a wide series of classes.”
Like their male classmates in the program, female Marines can expect ample physical training, he said. Students spend several days — and nights — in the field, making long marches while weighed down with weapons, ammunition and protective gear.
“They’ll go through the same mental and physical tasks common to the duties of the infantry platoon commander out in the fleet,” Mills said.
The article goes to say that women won’t be awarded the infantry designator or be assigned to an infantry unit because of Department of Defense restrictions – that the course is just a test program for the inevitable inclusion of women in the ranks of combat soldiers. While I applaud the Marine Corps for their preparation for the impending change in regulations, I urge them to keep the activist elements (journalists, etc…) away from the training so they don’t get to scream “Unfair!” and interfere with the test period. Those people tend to misunderstand that training is for war and everything else is bullshit.
Category: Military issues
Exactly WTF are “gender-neutral” physical standards?
I don’t have a problem with a test program per se, but if the physical standards are not equal [and by that I don’t mean lowering the male standard], then this is an exercise in institutional masturbation.
The article doesn’t offer clarity on this point.
“Gender-neutral” presumably means the same for both genders. Otherwise, the correct term would be “gender-normed” or “gender-specific”.
However, that doesn’t mean the standards will necessarily be the same as the previous male standards. The article indicates that there will be a two-day period devoted to “developing gender-neutral standards”. My guess is that means the USMC will develop physical standards that both genders can pass.
Until they’re developed, we won’t know. But I’m going out on a limb and saying I’d guess they’ll be different than previous male-only standards.
Females have been allowed into the Sapper course for several years now, I’ve seen one or two female engineer officers wearing the Sapper tab. I don’t doubt that those women busted their butts getting through the course, but I wonder if there have been any “allowances” made for them (allowed to go in from the field more often to shower for example). Anyone here have any information on that course since females have been admitted?
Pardon me if I throw the BS flag. And yeah, I can throw it higher and farther than a girl.
It is inevitable than sooner rather than later women will fully be allowed combat MOS (not sure if they will let them be in Spec Ops as fully tabbed though). The Marines are just taking the lead in this.
I mean, how many of us thought that restrictions against gays serving openly would so quickly taken down?
My only concern is the issue of how to integrate these women into combat units. I can only imagine mixed gender infantry platoons and squads, whole can of worms.
I know the politically correct will spout off about how people should be professional and all that, but we all know how things work in reality. Take a bunch of 19, 20 year olds, with all that testosterone, and stick in women, and all I can see are problems. Petty little drama, jealousies, you name it. Not the best thing for team cohesiveness, especially when facing the enemy in a stressful situation.
I don’t know, how do other military units around the world handle women in combat jobs?
well, we can still pee in the woods (or desert) standing up.
You won’t be able to now Roller-that will henceforth be considered sexual harassment to the female members of the platoon. I guess too so will be half the conversations we used to have.
Note too here that they mostly seem to be talking about officer-types when they say the exact same standards, and officers generally aren’t humping SAW’s, extra ammo and extra water. They also said that they will be sending enlisted “volunteers” to try and determine neutral physical standards to Infantry schools.
Of course the latter means that someone will have orders to come up with something that females can pass too, knowing that males will no matter what that is so everyone can say they both have the “same” standards.
And no one stated the standard PFT that every Marine has to pass will change, and they do have differing standards for males and females.
C-
More social experimenting. As for the “Crapper Tab” … don’t make me laugh. Never met a chick who would cut it when CM ran the Q course, but that was a long long time ago (one tab-Ranger, one beret-Green). I guess the term “tabless cunts” (due to the crapper tab) is now obsolete?
Unbelievable… What’s next… female leg pathfinders? oh never mind… We ALL can do the same job. Let’s have chicks try out for the NFL… there has to be one out there. Stop wasting time and experimenting… It leads to more body bags. The enemy of the future might be a first teamer next time… And then what? Kassarine Pass?
Beretverde, you gotta be the sandiest vagina out there. You whine and cry so fucking much I wonder how you make it through the day? I understand you are from a different era and time has passed you by and you probably think things haven’t changed since you wore the uniform last? Not everything is as you see it. There are some women out there that probably have more trigger time than you…shocking isn’t it.
Luckily I don’t judge long tabbers by you because I would lose a lot of respect for them just by your shit attitude.
Last I checked there are female pathfinders…
Yep I just checked in with a friend she is going to phase two of pathfinder school as soon as she gets back to Bragg, I bet that burns your ass doesn’t it?
I don’t mind the concept of females holding combat MOS like 11B.
As long as others mention that they can pass the same basic training standards as males in Fort Benning and the like.
And that, most importantly, they have their own separate units (platoons, squads). Mixed gender infantry squads/platoons is just asking for trouble.
[…] Lt. Gen. Richard Mills: Female infantry training will be the same as … […]
@9 I think you might need to have your meds increased. Just keeping it real.
@10 no it doesn’t. Simply saying … The standards have dropped and the experiment continues….
Just Plain Jason: I believe you’re reading Beretverde wrong. As his comment #14 states, his complaint seems to be more about the unnecessary changing of standards due to political correctness than about the fact that females are being afforded more opportunity to serve.
I have no problem with females serving in most if not all specialties – provided two conditions are met. First: the women involved can meet the real, no-shit, honest-to-God requirements of the specialty. For Infantry, that means meeting the exact same combat standards determined by TRADOC – i.e., meeting the same PT standards as males, humping the combat load on a forced march the requisite amount of time, weapons qualification, etc . . . – that male infantry soldiers must meet. The enemy doesn’t give a shit about your gender when he/she is shooting at you – and gender won’t make bullets miss. Training and ability does.
Second: the introduction of females into formerly all-male specialties must consider the impact on mission readiness, including logistics and unit cohesion. Field billeting (unisex? segregated by sex? monitored? secured?) is only one example of the issues that must be considered and solved. Sexual attraction and relationships within the unit – and the effect on unit cohesion and morale – is another. I’m sure there are multiple more that just aren’t coming to the top of my mind right now. Screw those up, and combat effectiveness nosedives.
If both of those conditions can be met, well, OK. If not, we’re doing nothing but sacrificing military effectiveness at the altar of political correctness. And sacrificing military effectiveness for political correctness means we bring home more body bags and less veterans during future conflicts.
No Hondo I just don’t like the fucking prick. Every time he writes something on here he runs someone else’s service down it seems like. I don’t give a shit if he calls himself a green beret or not. He really shows how much he is worth.
Beret verde, I earned my meds by doing some shit that would probably make you shit your depends, so why don’t you go join joe and insipid at the bus station…fuckstain.
UNLESS and ONLY if the current training manual for male Infantry Officers is applied to female candidates, then I’m calling BULLSHIT! Anything less than the current standards is a deliberate attempt to PC the process to allow women access to combat or combat arms billets. All you ‘trackers’ know what I’m talking about. When Charlie 2-1 threw a track, Lt. Byrd was out there busting track with his crew. How many women could pull track like a man? I mean no disrespect to our sisters in arms but unless the exact same standards are applied then the game is rigged.
#16 I refuse to lower my standards. I hope you don’t eat with that mouth (keyboard). Please try to keep it real… I do. You seem to be very troubled. Please get help. It’ll do many around you good. Good luck, and I mean that.
Fucktard, I’ve already gotten help for shit I have done. Just because I think you are a piece of shit doesn’t mean I am troubled.
I am begining to think someone must have lowered their standards for you beret verde. I know that units that support SF are allowed to wear a green beret, but they aren’t allowed to wear a long tab. Just because you do their laundry doesn’t make you one.
Oh and piece of advice, talking shit about a Combat Vets PTSD on a milblog? Really, is that the best you can do? You really have some class BV…
Your typing is evidently overriding thought processes. I refuse to engage in key-board dick checks…no matter how tempting it is. I can surmise that you have some deep rooted problems… I can only guess that some flash- qualified guy whipped your ass/stole or your girlfriend or you flunked out. Lighten up Francis and take a chill pill. This is not the time or place for your deep rooted problems to surface. Try using a baseball bat against a tree. The keyboard can work against you and cause more angst. Again, with all sincerity, good luck in your endeavors and life in general.
This coming from this guy who’s name is green beret? I like how in your mind because I call you a fake it is because I must have gotten my ass kicked by a real green beret. I just don’t have any respect for someone who talks big but really hasn’t been anywhere. Then pulls out the hey I’m going to talk shit about PTSD.
Honestly, I have only met a few green berets in my life and they were really awesome guys who imparted a lot of knowledge on me in the short time I was with them. They had no need to prove shit to anyone and no need to talk a big game. There are things that you say that just make me think that no you weren’t one. You worked with them filling out paperwork, working on their trucks, doing their laundry, but you never had a tab.
Mr. Jason… If I am a healthy outlet for you, so be it. It is your choice. Not only have I been there and done it, I also helped design the t-shirt (seriously). As for a tab… which one? The one that took place of the flash or the one that was worn prior (by me as well)?
Calling names and surmising via keyboard kommando strokes thankfully will not give me flashbacks to the butt-strokes threatened in Phase III. That being said… someone is lucky.
A student in my SF class had a brother, who was married to a girl who was on the TAB (diet soda) billboard. We called her Miss Tab. Does that count for another tab? But there was no SF tab then… just Ranger and the cola!
Life is too short, lighten up. This is Derby Day! Go Bodemeister!
Beretverde and Just Plain Jason, if you guys wanna duke it out, may I please ask you to find a private chat room to do it. I come here learn, enjoy the company of people who know what it’s like to miss the holidays ’cause you’re 10,000 miles from home and maybe offer an opinion on something I feel strongly about.
What you two are doing has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of women being trained as infantry officers. In my day this subject wasn’t even a topic for discussion. I’d like to know what current soldiers and Marines think of it. I’m here trying to learn and understand. Your personal fight only distracts from the this.
I’m surprised I am the first one to call you out. I remember when you first showed up I thought that’s ballsy having a name like beret verde on a site known for busting fakes. I guess it could be the whole plucking the tigers wisker thing.
Btw, who the hell talks like you an old cliche? Designed a t-shirt for real? You are too fucking cool.
Sorry yats I can’t stand fake assholes… I’m pretty sure bv fits both.
@ 24 I concur. @ 25-6 Simma!