David Groves update
Kristen Moulton of the Salt Lake City Tribune, who wrote the first article that Average NCO sent us, does some research and just published her report of that research;
The record, obtained by The Salt Lake Tribune through a Freedom of Information Act request, shows David Jennings Groves, now 67, entered the Army in Sante Fe, N.M., and spent two years, Dec. 7, 1962 to Dec. 9, 1964 at Fort Bliss in Texas.
Afterward, he briefly was in the Army Reserves and then served in the Army National Guard from Dec. 29, 1964 to Nov. 11, 1996. His highest rank was specialist.
Groves had Army training as an automotive repairman, and received standard commendations for a stateside soldier during the war: a National Defense Service Medal, and a marksman badge with rifle and carbine bars.
Groves, you may recall claimed he was in the 5th Special Forces when he was ambushed, was the sole survivor of his unit, and was imprisoned by the Viet Cong and NVA for six months until he escaped. Of course, he denies that Army records are correct, and, as we mentioned before, he has hired a lawyer. But, what we really need to find out is how he got on the VA’s role of POWs, because you’ll remember we did an investigation last month about the Department of Veterans’ Affairs and their internal review of POWs. They claimed that they discovered only two.
On Groves, the VA won’t tell us how he got on the roles;
The VA refused to answer questions about how the VA comes up with its list of former POWs to invite, how Groves came to be on the list, and whether he will be invited again.
“Privacy laws prevent us from releasing any other information in connection with Mr. Groves,” the VA said in its statement, provided by spokesman James Brown.
Schow said that while his department co-sponsors the luncheon, We have relied on the lists that the federal VA has.”
They say that Groves never applied for benefits, but there must be more out there who have.
Thanks to someone in Utah who dropped the link to the Trib article on our Fan Page.
Category: Phony soldiers
64 to 96 as a E-4? even in the guard that has to be the record
Is it time yet for us all to inquire of our Congress critters why clowns like this are draining needed funds from real wounded warriors?
If enough Congress critters ask enough questions, would the VA finally reconcile their list of POW’s with the list of persons who actually were POW’s?
We probably have more than enough skills among us here to do that list reconciliation thing ourselves at no cost to the precious gubmint. How tough could it be? List of POW’s on one piece of paper; list of who the VA sees as POW’s on another few pieces of paper. Strike through every name on List B that is not on List A, then delete all the stuck-through names from the system. Take what – 20 minutes? Maybe a bit longer to purge all the potential places the VA has hidden the fakers files.
I’m sure all his orginal records were destroyed in a fire…or eaten by locust or some shit.
@#1-No, actually it isn’t impossible to stay at E4 in the Guard. AS I understand it, unless you transfer to a unit across the state for a higher grade?
@#2-OWB Sensiki isn’t exactly the brightest tool in the shed? Sorta goes along with a good part of our Congress *critters*….
@#3-Roller Dude You know it, lol!
His Vietnam records were fed to sheep at Dugway in 1968 to ensure his records stayed secret. The sheep were then gassed to ensure they remained silent.
CI–I’ll buy option 2. It IS Utah, after all.
And yeah, how hard can it be to cross-reference a list of people claiming to be POW’s, etc., with the list of actual names, and shit-canning anyone who doesn’t appear on BOTH lists?
Some no-load GS-5 could do that in about 10 minutes.
Well, they probably would first have to appoint a study group, spend a bunch of money to screen potential receivers of funding, then cross referance that list with donors to the past 7 presidential campaigns, mail out forms to everyone who has ever received treatment through any federal medical facility, procure a spot on a Russian space flight to determine if conditions in the space station alter various printer inks, followed by an impact study and perhaps even the formation of an new bureau after meetings variously in Las Vegas, Antarctica, and TBA venues.
Sound pretty much how every $$ saving program has worked so far?
#4- Yep you can easily stay a Spec 4 in the Guard or reserves. I knew a few who did over 20 years like that. To get promoted, you have to attended a school…but they can’t force you to go to more training (besides the one weekend a month and 2 weeks of “summer camp”) so some never get promted because of that…
but, most don’t get promoted because they’re lazy and too stupid to pass the NCO courses. But, they can stay in. I felt we needed more “professional privates” in the service. I remember many times I had more NCOs and officers than privates.
They updated the article to reflect he only served two years in the Guard. Guess the editor was dyslexic.
I know that guy Terry Schow, and he is really good people. Just know that the state VA guys are not really affiliated with the Federal ones. The state guys help the dudes navigate through the system and such, but this one isn’t on Terry.
Sounds to me like a bit of mutual blame, TSO – with the Federal VA and the media each taking the lion’s share.
My guess is that the Federal VA folks did a local media search to get their names and found Groves’ name that way from his previous bogus claims to the media and put him on their list based on that. The state VA folks then likely accepted this list w/o question. Had anyone involved but Groves done even cursory homework (media, Federal VA, state VA), the disconnect regarding Groves would have been noted years ago.
One good thing about getting a number of this type of cases publicized (Groves, Pequignot, et al) is that it may make it more likely for ALCON to do a bit of real verification in future similar cases. Neither the media or federal/state governments like to be embarrassed and made to look like fools. And verifying such stories, especially POW claims, is much easier now than it was a few years ago.
Damn. #11 above was me. Time for that 2nd cup of coffee.
Okay, nobody tell my wife I’m using some of my daily WiFi time in the AOR to post here instead of calling her on Tango……..that being said. In his book, “Stolen Valor”, B.G. Burkette did a great job documenting how easy it was for the fakers to get on the VA rolls.Basically all they had to do was tell the admin clerk the were POWs, and the clerks stamped POW on their card, no questions asked. The fakers then use that card as their credentials. I don’t remember his name, but there was a restaurant owner who got caught last summer running the same scam. Groves has had his fun, I don’t think there will be any more ceremonies in his future.
EVERY military man must read “STOLEN VALOR,” by Burkett and Whitley, 1998 —
Truly, a ground-breaking, comprehensive, wonderful book — which outs Congress-Critters, Hollowwood celebri-frauds, the “psychology” con industry, VA Hospitals, and on and on, with extensive footnotes, photos — FANTASTIC BOOK !!