Lawyers and PTSD Bullshit
The news today in regards to SSG Robert Bales, the sergeant who apparently murdered 19 Afghans last weekend, is that he’s meeting with his shyster lawyer, according to Fox News;
John Henry Browne flew to Kansas Sunday ahead of his first face-to-face meeting with the 10-year Army veteran, who is being held in an isolated cell at Fort Leavenworth’s military prison.
Fort Leavenworth spokeswoman Rebecca Steed said Bales would be able to meet Browne in what is described as a privileged visit. Along with medical visits, such meetings are generally more private than others conducted in the prison.
That expert said charges were still being decided and that the location for any trial had not yet been determined. If the suspect is brought to trial, it is possible that Afghan witnesses and victims would be flown to the United States to participate, he said.
The Christian Science Monitor reports that the legal team is planning a defense based on Bales’ supposed PTSD;
The details will be unique to Sgt. Bales. But inevitably they boil down to what hundreds of thousands of GIs have experienced over 10 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan: the sometimes almost unbearable stress of violent combat and the strains of military life on individuals and their families.
In Bales’ case, according to initial reports from family members and the Seattle attorney they have engaged, that includes injuries during three previous tours in Iraq, witnessing at close hand the death and dismemberment of fellow soldiers, and financial difficulties on the home front at Joint Base Lewis McChord near Tacoma, Wash.
Yeah, “hundreds of thousands of GIs” who haven’t killed even one civilian, beat their wives, rammed their car into a bridge, pulled the trigger on themselves [insert your own attempt at violence that you haven’t committed]. “Unique to SSG Bales” is an understatement. I’m not going to speculate on what caused Bales to go downtown and blast away at innocents, but I do know that there are many people on this blog who suffer from PTSD and there’s not one who I wouldn’t welcome into my house without bothering to lock up my gun safe. I’d like to think this blog is part of their self medication, I know it’s part of mine. That’s why I don’t try to restrain discussion here.
But I hope this cock-holster lawyer takes into account the “hundreds of thousands of GIs” who he’ll be affecting by calling the choices his client made “PTSD”. Of course, I’m hoping against hope here, but there’s always a chance.
And for all of you visitors here who are trying to shame us into dialing back our criticism of SSG Bales and his f*ckstick lawyer, kindly GFY. While we sympathize with his family, nothing they ever wrote on their blog has anything to do with what he did, which is why I haven’t linked to it.
We are professional soldiers who know bullshit when we see it…and this blog is an ongoing discussion of that bullshit. Save that “innocent until proven guilty” shit for the jury. We are not bound by the constitution here. And we’re all pretty pissed off that the choices that SSG Bales made will affect the people we care most about when they’re in Afghanistan…wanna talk about fairness? The people who’ve done their duty, stuck to their own lofty principles despite repeated tours of duty in the war against terror, are the ones who will ultimately pay the price for Bales’ actions. I can’t change that, but I will push back against attempts to smear them with a broadbrush like this dickweed lawyer will try.
Category: Legal, Shitbags, Terror War
John Henry Browne – the male equivalent of Gloria Allred…
“kindly GFY”… Two words have never rung more true.
Amen Jonn.
Thank you Jonn. You’ve said it straight-forward and clearly.
The best thing that Bales could do right now is to forgo an attorney and plead out, saving his comrades and country a long and protracted trial, and the collateral damage to all of us that will accompany it.
You said it, Jonn…and well.
I have always been the worst person in the world you want on a jury because I separate the defendants guilt/innocence from the sentence. Sentencing if for the judge and while sitting on a jury my job is simply to determine guilt or innocence. You can bring all those mitigating circumstances up during sentencing but during the actual trial they mean nothing to me.
I can empathize with the conditions which may have led SSG Bales to do what he did, but the evidence, and even his reported confession, indicate that he did the shootings. One can never condone the taking of a civilian life and even in a combat zone it is paramount to keep your focus on who the real bad guys are and that is the ones with weapons trying to take your life. Sorry for sounding so rough.
BTW I think his lawyers would be better served looking into the effects of TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) on his actions rather then the amorphous PTSD. Prove a real physical connection to brain damage which altered his reasoning ability.
If I was his lawyer, I would also explore the Meflaquin defense.
Also, what with the attack on lawyers? Should I file a harrassment suit against my “employer” here? I mean, sure, I hate lawyers too, but let’s be honest, Jonn is probably sitting on tens of dollars in revenue I might be able to get.
@7: “tens of dollars”
WTF!? You’re going after the TAH/HHC beer fund now??
Bastard!!!
TSO: you mean you don’t agree with Heinlein’s alternate-Earth take on lawyers in “The Number of the Beast”? (smile)
I’ve never been a fan of accused service members hiring civilians with no military background. Manning’s handlers, for example, were surprisingly wise to hire David Coombs rather than some hot shot civilian who doesn’t know the military and has preconceived notions. On a lesser scale, look at the IVAW people who hired the likes of James Branum and others who hired experienced military lawyers or used detailed defense counsel. This lawyer likely is much better than Branum, but I’ve seen civilians come into the military system and get rolled by a first tour 0-3 trial counsel.
@4… I dfon’t think the government is interested in accepting a plea.
@6… In a court martial, the military panel members issue the sentence. In this case, if it is referred capital, unlike Manning’s case, the government needs a unanimous verdict and then all the panel members must unanimously agree to sentence him to death. The convening authority and president can lessen the sentence. But in capital litigation where it’s not really a who-done-it, the key is to find just that one juror. So a PTSD defense isn’t a horrible tactic, but it needs to be done correctly, lest the panel members become jaded and cynical and hammer the guy for playing the “PTSD card.”
Very well said!
Of course, the lawyer is going to use the “PTSD defense.”
Lawyers don’t care about the truth, nor about the people they malign. They don’t really even care about their client, so long as they get their pay check, and a “win” on their record.
And this holds true, even if this guy is doing it pro-bono. That would just make it a very cheap advertising campaign for his future paychecks. That’s why lawyers fight to get the high-profile cases of the worst members of society.
There is NO defense for murdering women and children in the middle of the night. None, not even if a criminal sexually assaulted the defendent nightly when he was a child while other kids laughed. There is NO defense for murdering women and children in their beds.
The prosecution should counter-attack on the false portrayals of PTSD causing violence. It does not. And the record needs to be set straight.
If the prosecution meets the burden of proof that Bales did murder those civilians, then there should be no hesitation to move forward with the harshest penalty allowable by law.
This fuckstick lawyer WILL use the Meflaquin Defense without question!
@12… For what it’s worth… SGT Akhbar threw grenades into tents in Kuwait on the eve of the Iraq invasion, killing two officers in cold blood. Akhbar’s defense focused on mental illness from the very beginning. The prosecution did a masterful job of disputing these claims of mental illness and in the end, the panel unanimously voted for death. Akhbar is still in the appeals process. But my point is that the prosecution can, and probably will, work to diminish any of these issues and show that the balance is way out of whack between any mental issues and the potentially knowing act of premeditated murder that was allegedly committed (I don’t know any facts, so can’t even pretend to know the real story).
Let me throw the first bullshit flag on today’s New York Times article.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46780389/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/
The Times reports:
Three deployments in Iraq, where he saw heavy fighting, and a fourth in Afghanistan, where he went reluctantly, left him struggling financially, in danger of losing his home.
I don’t know about any of you, but the best place to be financially is DEPLOYED! All of my cash went HOME! If I’ve done my caluclations semi-correctly, with Base pay, BAS, BAH, Family Separation, Imminent Danger, “Our Bobby” was making about $5800 month tax free.
Most of the narrative we are reading about in the media is coming from two sources; his dirtbag lawyer and the ever-present ‘unnamed military sources’ who did such a bang up job on the Jessica Lynch story. Its funny how the media is always able able to find some unnamed source to back the story they want to tell.
I have dealt with John Henry in the past. He represented a physician in my county that was charged with murder, he got the guy off only because my detective and the coroner screwed the pooch in their shitty investigation. He is now representing a young punk for murder of a local girl. He likes to bluster and gets lots of face time with the tv cameras. His female assistant is a hell of a lot smarter than him. John Henry likes to strut for the jury, but lately he has been all about making deals. He does a lot of pro bono stuff but feeds off of the publicity. He just dealt a deal for the puke “Barefoot Bandit” Probably will get a book deal. I don’t know if he has had any UCMJ practice. In all he is a blow hard publicity whore. I imagine he will try to get Bales life in a mental institution at best?
Well said John! The broken vet syndrome is coming, and there will be a backlash against us because of this guy.
One question I have not seen answered anywhere is, How did he get off his FOB???? This to me makes no sense, 1. he is SSG he doesn’t pull ECP duty. 2. No ONE saw him leave? 3. For those that havent been on a deployment in the last 10 years just “walking off” your base, by yourself is an NOT easy thing to do. Afghanistan isnt the Hurt Locker. 4. I dont see him going all ninja and jumping over a hesco wall 5. No solider would be intimated by rank to let an armed soldier leave through an ECP by himself in the middle of the night, not even the dumbest of privates would let this happen without calling it up to someone.
This to me is one big question mark in this whole thing.
@16: Exactly. That’s why I haven’t commented on this guy. Too many questions that won’t be answered until the trial.
Like Catci35, I have been in the sights of JHB, he was defending a dirt bag drug dealer who shot two other drug dealers, no great loss to society , I was the first person on the scene (FF medic) and he tried to say that I had walked through the pool of blood and left tracks, I had looked in the back door and saw 2 bodies on the floor and never entered the house, but he tried hard to get me to change my story, the foot prints were from the first PD unit, a motorcycle officer, who “went in to see if anyone else was their, including the shooter.” The fact that the shooter had his girlfriend with him at the time, and ratted him out after he beat her up made little difference to JHB. He is good, but he may be out of his element in a military trial.
This guy has a right to an attorney of his choice, not because he is a good guy, but because we must keep our government — the prosecutors, etc., honest.
What you gentlemen are saying, in essence, is that the “PTSD defense” is very weak.
This is a case where there is no doubt about what happened, and who did it, and so far, nobody is arguing that it was justifiable under the circumstances. In such cases, the defense is often that the defendant was incapable of forming the kind of intent to support a charge of murder.
The “PTSD defense,” if it is successful, does not result in freedom for the killer. It just determines the sentence: if it is successful, he will not be executed, and he will get some sort of treatment, but he will be confined for life.
I’m not military but it occurred to me when I first heard it, Is there a chance some Taliban did the deed and is framing the Sgt. Otherwise yes the Sgt should just get it over with and plea for leniency. Although the brain injury he suffered should have kept him from future deployments. imho.
First, did I happen upon this blog on beat up lawyers day? We are not all pond scum you know.
Second, I agree with JAGC about the civilian/military lawyer thing. I like to think I am a more than adequate attorney. I know my area of the law better than most in my field. As a competent lawyer, I know that when I go into a court in another state, I should get strong local counsel; not just someone who signs the papers, but someone the judge respects. Failing to follow this procedure in many places will get you “home cooked.”
Thus, even if I were a good criminal defense lawyer, which I am not, I would still be an amateur when it comes to the UCMJ as are most civilian lawyers who have never been a part of JAG. A court martial is different from your average criminal trial because: (a) the law is different; (b) the procedures are different; (c) the judge is different; and, most importantly, (d) the jury is VERY different. The jury in this type of case is not made up of your average knucklehead unable to escape jury duty with no real understanding of the subject matter. This guy’s jury will likely include combat veterans who have a very real understanding of the stresses. In fact, the jury may very well include someone with at least a mild form of PTSD. In short, the jury will be made up of soldiers none too pleased at potentially being tainted with this guy’s actions. Thus, if I were asked (which I won’t be) I would strongly recommend that this attorney pair up with the attorney assigned by the Army.
I am very unhappy at some of the publicity for the situation. I read an article that was posted on Yahoo yesterday indicating there was a surprising amount of support for the SSgt. With what happened I don’t see that the Army has really any choice but to go for the max in the case. This was not a situation of a battle field break where some troop went off his nut and entered a house in the middle of a firefight and shot up civilians inside. This was a premeditated act. It took planning to get off the FOB, using a route that seemingly did not have US troops manning the exit. Then to do the act in multiple houses and try to sneak back into the FOB where he was discovered by the response team.
I don’t see much in the way of mitigating circumstances at all in what has been released to date. The idea that he should be given consideration for trauma is a stretch given the methodical effort he went through. This was not a spur of the moment crime. Too many obstacles that required planning to circumvent were in the way for that.
The only ones I feel sorry for are his family, especially his kids. The only thing I will “give” the SSgt is the innocent until proven guilty aspect. Should the prosecution be able to prove it was indeed him that committed the act, and I doubt that will be hard at all, he should be held accountable. The only reasonable sentence then is the death penalty.
@16 and @19-exactly.
I would remind you that all the theories of what the lawyer is going to say are right now, only theories. He has not yet met his client. All he’s going off is what we’re going off. They’re flying him to meet his client to see what’s going on. Then and only then will we know the real defense.
But I also have questions. This whole thing reeks of sketch to me. So supposedly he was drinking with two guys, then drunk, wanders off the FOB and no one notices this at all, not even the guys who are watching to make sure no one is doing this in reverse. He kills people in one village, but instead of continuing to kill in that village, takes a one mile walk break just to get to another village to kill again?
This thing stinks to high heaven. I’m waiting for more evidence before I judge.
Sorry, 16, 18, and 19 I meant to say.
Army Sergeant: his lawyer has already made public statements about his client. So not everything regarding what his lawyer might say is speculation.
And you might want to look at the comments on the “This is Where We Take Our Stand” article. I think there are a couple of comments there you might want to address.
As for how he got off his “FOB” without being seen or stopped, Redacted 1776 gave insight into how that might have happened in comment 38 on this thread:
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=29163
Bottom line is that he may not have been on a FOB if he was assigned to and supporting a local stability team.
#23 – That is normally what happens. The client can dismiss his military lawyer if he wants to, but that would be foolish in a case like this.
@#23 Of course it’s beat up on lawyers day! There are innocent people dead, a war effort hampered, and a lawyer violating his code of ethics by shooting off his mouth pretrial, and in the process, tarring the reputation of many other, innocent people.
One of my biggest problems is 1) his lawyer is a shithead and needs to be shot from a cannon. 2) This story stinks and has way too many holes in it to fit and I am not ready to throw this guy under a bus. 3) This is being used as an indictment against all veterans and soldiers by some of the usual asshats. Sorry I had some insomnia going on last night and I felt like beating my head against the wall so I read some comments on a npr article.
We keep going on like the trial is over and he is already convicted, what if the jury hears the evidence and they don’t buy the story? Even if he has “confessed” the evidence has to be there to back up the confession to gain a conviction.
SSSG Bales’ lawyer sounds like the male lawyer counterpart from “Harry’s Law”. All bluff & bluster & doesn’t know the law, only knows how to win.
Meflaquin… Are you referring to the malaria drug Mefloquine?
A lawyer comes up with the best defense he can for his client. This lawyer has a client that slaughtered children sleeping in their beds. Unless there’s a question of identity, it was some other guy, which doesn’t seem to be the case here, there’s not a lot to work with except trying to do something with his mental state.
And that’s not being brought up to get him off, which is almost impossible to do with that defense since the threshold is so high, but more likely to get the death penalty off the table and work out some kind of plea so it never even goes to trial. But we’re a long way from knowing exactly how this is going to be play out.
The one thing I’m pretty sure of is that what gets written in the newspapers today isn’t what’s going to happen in the courtroom.
The lawyer in this case committed to the “PTSD defense” before he even met the client. He followed this up today by saying he “hoped” it would “help end” the Long War.
He doesn’t give a damn about his client, nor about PTSD. He has a political agenda to push, and in this case, “free” is far too expensive for his “client.”
For Valerie, most of us here are not as concerned with Bales’ sentencing, but rather the fact that this defense plan deepens the divide between Veterans and the Citizens who are being taught to fear their Protectors, particularly as there is no connection between PTSD and violence. http://waronterrornews.typepad.com/ps/2012/03/what-to-do-about-all-those-crazed-combat-veterans.html
Also, for Valerie, (since you mentioned beat up a lawyer day, or something):
A Lawyer is cross-examining a Police Officer involved in the arrest of a criminal:
“Why did you arrest my client?”
“He met the description of a fellow officer of an individual seen fleeing the scene of an assault and robbery of a citizen.”
“And you just trusted his description?”
“Yes. He is a Police Officer, trained to provide descriptions.”
“Do you always trust your fellow Police Officers?”
“Yes”
“Do you have a lock on your wall locker in the Police Locker Room?”
“Yes”
“If you trust your fellow Police Officers, why do you need to put a lock on your wall locker?”
“Because sometimes, sir, a lawyer walks through there.”
Maggie Goff: “Meflaquin… Are you referring to the malaria drug Mefloquine?”
Yes, he is. A.k.a., Larium. (That stuff was Da Bomb! overseas… mildly neurotoxic like being on a one-beer buzz, made me mellower and gave me raunchily vivid, enjoyable dreams about bangin’ Angelina Jolie like a screen door in a hurricane.)
Gee, thanks, Anonymous. 😉
The Foreign Legion has manufactured a special expression of its own for this mental state “Cafard.” The cafard of the Foreign Legion, a near relative to tropical madness, is a collective name for all the inconceivable stupidities, excesses and crimes which tormented nerves can commit. The English language has no word for this condition. ***In “cafard” murder hides, and suicide and mutiny; it means self mutilation and plan-less flight out into the desert; it is the height of madness and the depth of despair. All idiocy in the Legion is called “cafard”. A legionnaire is gloomy, sitting sullenly on his bed for hours, speaking to no one. If you ask him what is the matter, he will answer with a gross insult. He sits thinking all the time and does the queerest things. He has the “cafard.” His madness may turn into a senseless explosion or fit of fury; men suffering from “cafard” will run a bayonet through their comrade’s body, without any reason, without any outward cause. Sometimes they rush out into the desert, sometimes they tear every piece of their outfit into rags, just to vex themselves and others thoroughly.***
The “cafard” is at its worst in the hot season when the sun burns down relentlessly from the cloudless, deep blue sky, with the strange greenish coloring of the horizon peculiar to Algeria. Then the barrack-yard of the Foreign Legion lies deserted. It is so hot that the stones on the yellow clayey ground seem to move in the glimmering overheated air. The legionnaire sentries wear the flowing white neck-protector, and have stuffed wet cloths
into their kepis.
All of this could of been avoided our VA knows but works to use words to lesson what we are going though. All because of holding back benefit entitlements in Indiana it is so sad and makes soilders go over the edge. I am one of them a timebomb waiting to explode. Iraq 2003.