Back to the future
Leon Panetta unfurled his plan for slashing defense spending yesterday. I got the feeling that we are now in the post-Korean War era, with Eisenhower touting the “bigger bang for the buck” strategy of relying on our nuclear dominance for our defense. Except now Panetta thinks that relying on our technological dominance is the cure-all for our national security concerns.
Panetta cloaked the smaller force in terms like “agile” to make it seem as if he’s improving the force.
Although some have been predicting slashes to manpower up to 100k troops, the Washington Post says 57,000 slots will be cut;
Aside from the cuts to the Army, which will eventually reduce the number of active-duty soldiers to 490,000 from 547,000, most of the reductions revealed Thursday had been previously announced or involved less costly items. Panetta noted that the Army and the Marine Corps will still be slightly larger than they were in 2001, before the invasion of Afghanistan and the subsequent war in Iraq.
The plan for Europe is to leave just two brigades behind says Stars & Stripes;
The move will send the 172nd Separate Infantry Brigade, based out of Grafenwöhr and Schweinfurt, and the Baumholder-based 170th Infantry Brigade, back to the States.
The 2nd Cavalry Regiment in Vilseck, Germany, and the 173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team in Vicenza, Italy, will remain as the only Army brigades permanently based in Europe.
Ya know, all of that is fine, if the Europeans are willing to pick up their end of the rope and pull for a change instead of relying on the US to rush to their aid, And while Eisenhower was planning on the nuclear edge for our defense, history had other plans and we were later embroiled in a close-up, hand-to-hand primitive sort of warfare that negated any impact our nuclear arsenal. In other words, our enemies will make plans to exploit our weaknesses, not our strengths.
So while Panetta and Obama plan to fight the next next war with drones and ninjas, our enemies are planning a manpower-intensive war.
Category: Barack Obama/Joe Biden, Military issues
Other then being used as a staging area for a hop to a hot war zone elsewhere in the world, is there any reason to continue having units (especially such as the 2ACR) still based in Europe?? Who are we protecting our European “allies” from, these days??
“57,000 slots will be cut”. That’s in this round, there’s another round of cuts coming down the road shortly. That may take us up to and beyond 100K troops.
And, I don’t think the Euro’s will be any more willing to pull their own weight than they were in the past 60 years or so.
our enemies are planning a manpower-intensive war.
And the Norks and PLA have lots and lots and lots of bodies.
All these cuts will be from the Active Component. I was told in a briefing last month that there would be no cuts to the Reserve or Guard due to “political considerations”.
So if/when the Norks or PRC get froggy, guess who’s not going to be around for those floods, tornados and hurricanes in their communities?
Welcome back, Carter.
I lived through the lean and dangerous years of the Carter administration, where these same manpower and monetary cuts got people killed for no damned reason other than the leftists needed more money for the entitlement slaves on their welfare plantations.
Same shit happened with Clinton.
WE ARE VULNURABLE!! How can the government reasonably expect to protect the lives of US citizens with only a half a millioon poorly equiped, poorly paid ground forces. If you know your history you knkow that more than once a country was defeated by a foriegn invansion while the bulk of its Army was engaged in a conflict farm from home. You do remember the Punic wars do you not? And before that the Spartans were forced to use their womean and old men to defend the country. You might think that could not happen to us. No army could sneak up on us. But a quick search of WIKI showed me that the Mexican Army with almost 200,000 active duty members is just across our border. What the fuck do they teach those selected for 07 and higher? Furthermore the Iranians have been attacking us for 30 years now and we still have not defeated them. If we have not defeated them by now it must be becasue they can not be defeated by those now in charge. If we had been in charge we COULD have defeated them in 72 hours. But we WOULD not have defeated them in 72 hours. NO we would have surrendered to them unconditionally a long time ago because that would have been the right thing to do. IN all of the questions that are causing tensions between the US and Iran the Iranians are 110% right and the US is 125% wrong. It couild be true that there are Iranian Shias that want to spraed their looney religion over the entire planet. That is becasue they love us. They want to increase our chances of making it to heaven. They calculate that 2/3s of Muslims will be allowed through the pearly gates on judegement day and only 10% of Chrsitians. They only want to increase our chances of be granted this wonderful gift. Furthermore there are Chrtstians here in the US who want to spread their looney religion all over the whole world. It is also becasue they love us. Some of… Read more »
^ Damn…I wish I had that much free time during the day…..
No you don’t, CI. You really don’t.
That’s too much free time and an abundant supply of crack cocaine.
Gettin’ crowded on that basement sofa, it took four of’em to write that mini-manifesto. That or they’re huddled on the floor in the head of the nearest fast food joint as it’s too cold to occupy right now.
@6 Wow, that was a mishmash of retard right there….
Back to the real discussion, I worry for my SF son and his friends. They are really going to get beat up and send to BFE on an all too regular basis since there won’t be anyone else to go. Grrrr!
So, does Obama WANT to lose part of the country to Muslim extremists? Because with a force that small, all it would take is a five-point invasion for a Red Dawn scenario in the U.S. Hell, from what I hear, Dearborn, Michigan is already that way.
Raise your hand if you think TF Smith is going to repeat.
I think Panetta actually knows better than what is proposed; he probably got told to shut up and do what he was told. I’ll be interested to read any book he might write further on down the road.
GruntSgt, I think I stepped over them in the john at a Mickey D’s this morning.
@#6:
Kids, if you’re gonna use a space heater to warm up the trailer, you need to crack a window open a mite to keep the O2 levels up.
Just sayin’…….
It’s all about money and votes. The Democratic Party knows the military votes Republican in a large majority. This is a social-political write-off. Caring about soldiers’ lives in battles is not in their line of thinking. Welfare and votes (power)are! The US sows what it reaps, and this is the result. “You get what you paid for” Nope- “You get what you vote for.”
“Ya know, all of that is fine, if the Europeans are willing to pick up their end of the rope and pull for a change instead of relying on the US to rush to their aid…”
True. But I think the threat to Europe today is minimal, and there’s only one way to make the Europeans get serious about their own security. Cut them off. They’ll never get serious as long as they can rely on “die Amis” to defend their nation(s). Same with Japan.
@6 Shorter version-Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
Be easier to stop these cuts if we had more than a handful of vets in Congress. There are plenty of areas to cut back spending, but 100k less troops drops us to #3 in largest active military, below China and India.
Yeah, India.
Doc,
I have said it here before that TF Smith will indeed happen again or a Eagle One. Quite a few of here endured the Carter and Clinton years and remember going through shit that no self respecting member of the military, careerist or one termer should ever have to go through. I have been telling my son to keep his head down for the next five years or so. I live near Quantico Marine Corps Base and believe me some of hem guys are really worried how they are going to be able to do the mission without a lot of blood loss.
The AF is announcing 10K Airmen to be cut, on top of the ~5K civilians we just cut.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/01/air-force-norton-schwartz-says-10000-airmen-to-go-2013-012712w/
10K airmen, huh?
I suppose that means that the putting greens will only get trimmed every other day then? 😉
No, the putting greens will remain unaffected. I forsee a huge cut in tranport capability and CAS support in the Air Force. Since our Dear Leader has decreed that we can win wars without boots on the ground, the Air Force will lose C-130’s, C-17’s , and A-10’s, but keep the shiny jets to shoot down all the enemy fighters that threaten us.
Damn, we had 540,000 troops in VN by the end of 1967 at the request of GEN Westmorland.
Forgot to mention that we had 4 divisions under 2 Coprs with two seperate cav regiments and engineer brigades in Germany in the late 70s.
I just read an article somewhere Jonn, that the much of the cut-backs will becoming from staff billets. In the same spot I saw the Army has plans to convert to a three battalion brigade again. I hope if the 170th and 172nd are disbanded as brigades, at least their battalion slots are added to other formations.
I agree with your general point about this “agile” over reliance on Special ops and technology is short sighted. Rumsfeld was peddling a similiar line when he was in office and we fought two wars undermanned, with an Army unskilled to fight them. Frankly we don’t have enough combat power as is.
This whole proposition is bad enough but what makes it worse is this framework has been proven inadequant just over the last decade. This entire bill of goods is being sold on platitudes and wishful thinking.
@24: J.M. , I share your panic. Big Army is in love with new weapons systems. Logistics? Let KBR handle that! After the charlie foxtrot that was FCS we now have the “Ground Combat Vehicle.” This atrocity spawned an infantry carrier that was 70 tons. Common sense broke out for a bit and the proposal was re-done. Just in time to cut troops and downsize warrior transition programs.
Logistics and the troops themselves are the unglamorous side of the military. It’s fun to build prototypes, but not if they just haul cargo. The ring knockers forget that without the HMMWV, the five ton, the deuce and a half the army and marines would grind to a halt.
After bad press and Congressional hearings, we now have warrior transition battalions. However commanders still take swipes at soldiers being med-boarded. Some even sent soldiers being kicked out to their post’s WTU. Once again common sense broke out and that practice has been stopped.
We need to fix the military we have. Stop with the “future” war nonsense. Cancel the Ground Combat Vehicle. If you’re gonna cut brigades and send the troops elsewhere, make’em 88M, 91W and other much needed logistics MOSes. Fire KBR and Haliburton.