The French threaten to act like they’re French
After losing four French soldiers to an attack by an Afghan soldier, the French are considering their withdrawal from the mission to civilize the country says Reuters;
France threatened on Friday to pull out early from the NATO-led war in Afghanistan after a rogue Afghan soldier opened fire on French soldiers, killing four and wounding about 15 others.
The killings in the Taghab valley of Afghanistan’s eastern Kapisa province were the latest in a series of incidents that have seen Afghan troops turn on Western allies, damaging trust.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy said all French operations on the ground were being suspended and his defense minister was dispatched to clarify the situation in Afghanistan.
The soldiers were apparently killed after their morning PT session reports Associated Press;
It was the latest in a series of attacks by members of the Afghan security forces or infiltrators in disguise against coalition partners that have raised fears of increased Taliban infiltration of the Afghan police and army as foreign combat forces prepare to withdraw from the country by 2014.
The base on which the French soldiers were killed is occupied by 600 soldiers, about 400 of which are Afghans. Although tragic, it sounds to me that the French aren’t providing enough security for their own troops, and they’re threaten to take their ball home is just playing into the Taliban’s hands and will most certainly inspire more attacks if the Taliban are convinced that they influence other countries to withdraw.
Category: Terror War
I caught this story on VOA earlier, and posted it, but of course, I didn’t have your insights…;)
Thought these soldiers were Legionnaires. Since when does France give a rip about expending members of La Legion?
While most of the members of our European allies’ militaries are pretty great we can’t count on the moral integrity of most of their governments nor the backbone of their people in actually fighting a war. The was first driven home after the Spanish cut and ran in the wake of the 2004 Madrid train bombings.
The only consistent, historical exception to this has been the British.
Green on Blue attacks have been increasing recently, and I don’t think any ISAF member should take them lightly.
Perhaps France is realizing that nation building and fighting the Taliban aren’t worth the cost in regards to their national security.
“Although tragic, it sounds to me that the French aren’t providing enough security for their own troops”
The things is, how do you protect the force? My own unit was subject to this kind of attack. We are ordered to partner with them, ordered to allow them access to our facilities, prohibited from showing signs of mistrust or increased security in their presence. nobody I know trusts the Afghans, but without the ability to segregate ourselves from them, this is going to continue to happen. Never one to defend the French, but I don’t fault them for the shitty situation we’re in here in Afghanistan.
Dave O: One of the 4 killed was a Legionnaire (a warrant oficer from the 2nd Engineers). The rest were French Army.
No the French are not acting like the French. The French, collectively speaking of course no exactly how to kill an insurgency went they want to. This was demonstrated in Algeria in the 1990s went Muslims parties won the election fair and square the Alegrian military for better or worse, I supsect worse, annuled the elections, claiming that if the Muslims took power it would be one man one vote one time.
Well as I am sure that no one else here is aware of an insurgency broke out and the French military advised the Algerian military to destroy the Islamists by infiltrating their ranks and sowing distrust so the they would end up destroying themselves. Certianly a repeatable strategy.
re #7
Afghanistan in 2012 isn’t Algeria in 1991 (or 1960).
Iraq in 2006 isn’t Malaysia in 1950.
Rhodesia in 1964 isn’t South Africa in 1899.
et al.
Historical analogies can be useful for digesting complex situations but at the end of the day they’re not a cheat sheet. The French have no more ability to infiltrate and disrupt the Taliban than the Taliban has the ability to infiltrate and disrupt the Gendarmerie.
For a moment let us take the spotlight off of the French and put it on another country, say Prussia for example. Yes that it is Prussia. A country that can afford to let 10 billions dollars end up in a teachers bank acccount, hopefully mine in a cupple days, and super sophisticated monitoring technology.
To compare that ability of the Taliban to infitrate Scotland Yard and the abiliy of Prussia to infiltrate the taliban is a farce. Prussia would not even really have to infiltrate the taliban they just need to say kill a taliban leader and make it look like it was an inside job. Or spread some rumors, or leave some evidence somewhere to make it appear that one of the leaders is a traitor or even soft on Christianity or Buddhism. Such movemnts of extremists are premanufactured powder kegs in the first place. Furthermore if the Prussians thought that they would have some trouble pulling off such feats they would not hesitate turning to the experts in the field.
There is some more to add to this. The objectives of the rulers in carrying out a policy are not always the publically stated objectives, or the objectives of those carrying out the policy.
For example had the Prussian Military wanted to defeat Germany in WW2 it would have taken a much more direct route to defeat the enemy than that employeed by the western Allies in that conflict.
Had it been up to us we would have invaded the continent on the Danish Pennisula. Once the straights in to the Baltic sea had been secured the Germans would to have spread out thier available forces so thinly the next assault could have walked ashore pracically unarmed. The Danish Pennisula would have given the allies a very narrow front to defend while a flanking attack could have been mounted almost anywhere,but especiallly between the Elf and and the Wesser Rivers to quicly sieze the ports of Bremen and Hattrick and advance southwards to split the continent in two using those rivers to help protect the flanks of the advancing forces. Germany would have been defeated by September of 1944. But it seems that somewhere high up people not only had different ideas they had different motives than the quick defeat of Germany.
Of course this scenario is supported by the Russians but because it is supported by the Russians does that mean that it is untrue?
“The base on which the French soldiers were killed is occupied by 600 soldiers, about 400 of which are Afghans. Although tragic, it sounds to me that the French aren’t providing enough security for their own troops, and they’re threaten to take their ball home is just playing into the Taliban’s hands and will most certainly inspire more attacks if the Taliban are convinced that they influence other countries to withdraw.” Jonn I think this is an unfair characterization of the French tactical predicament but an accurate description of political posturing by Paris.
Both US & UK Troops have had the same thing happen numerious times while embedding with the Afghans. Kapisa is no where near either the most contested or quiet areas and the French who I think had something like a battalion task force, have fought well. They have actually been willing to dispense with the caveat nonsense that most of our other allies cling to(like Germany and Australia), losing them would be a lose. Though I do agree with you in thinking the French leadership is looking for an excuse to leave.
#2 Not every rotation is done by legionaries.
#4 “Green on Blue attacks have been increasing recently…” yes they have.
#7 France had most of Algeria subdued before DeGaul decided to abandon it in the early 60s.
#8 All true, but it is to the past that we look to take the present into the future. If we had not rediscoverd that past for example(including failures like Vietnam) the Surge could not possibly have implemented.
“The French have no more ability to infiltrate and disrupt the Taliban than the Taliban has the ability to infiltrate and disrupt the Gendarmerie…” the first assertion is more true then the second. Thats why we have spies. It also misses the point, the Afghan forces(in theory) can sure inflitrate the Taliban and vice versa. The Afghan forces can be subverted and are the primary target.